Overclockers

If there is one place to get the scoop on ATI, Charlie and SA seem to be it...

Anyhoo, interesting article, looks like the the tide has finally changed. Nvidia needs to get back into the game with a more attractive card (less power, heat, and a little less expensive).

Remember though, ATI was in this same position for a couple of gen's with the HD2900 and the 3870... Nvidia is due for bottoming out and bouncing back.

I agree. In the past few years, you could always count on ATI to bring Nvidia's prices down. Right now, ATI has the whole DX11 market and Nvidia has nothing to compete on the price front... so ATI can sell at the price they want. At this pace, the only thing bringing the 5000-series prices down will be the 6000-series launch...

I wouldn't be surprised if 5000-series ends up being the most profitable series of ATI cards in years! Hopefully Nvidia will have something to compete by the end of the year and prices will be more interesting for consumers.

Cheers!

I enjoy the competition. I bounce back between Ati/Nvidia every 2-3 generations of chips. I root for both companies even though I tend to be a little bit more of a fan for one of them.

Well I guess this gives me a reason to wait and save up. Hopefully though the 5k series will drop a bit in price once the 6k cards come out late this year / early next year and maybe they won't be out of stock so fast...

ATI has not even hinted new series, so I would speculate anywhere between 6 and 12 month , it will all mainly relay on competition , which has been lacking.ATi has gained 8% share in discrete graphics in the first quarter, which is huge.

Also I don't anticipate a price drop, but am not an analyst.

I would wait seriously ATi have been on the game for a few years now while nVidia have just well not released anything as good least it's 1 part of AMD thats doing well. I just ordered a new GPU cooler for my 9600GT as I am getting back into gaming and the stock fan is annoying the hell out of me but I was going to order the 5770 but now I'll wait the 9600GT will crush my games I have as there slightly old but Uk temps are warming up and just bought some new fans for my case.

My guess is we'll see a 5-series refresh/update in June/July (at best), and won't see the 6-series until October/November

I have to agree 100% with that statement. There is no time to loose for ATI. They should release new products like tick-tock and effectively kick Nvidia while its down. I have all reasons to believe there won't be a 5000-series refresh and that 6000-series cards will be out in September time. I think ATI will go with pretty much the same release schedule as the 5000-series cards but a year later.

Cheers!

i think it should be soon because te 5850/70 have gone down a good 20$ since last week on the egg

I think it has more to do with manufacturing costs.

I dont see the situation as being that bad for Nvidia. They have a new architecture out already, and they will continue to refine it. It is pure speculation, that ATI will be able to match it. Let alone keep temps and power requirements in line with what appears to be their M.O. I mean, that is really the only argument against going 4xx. And I have never found it a sound argument, at that.

Six months ago, ATI's momentum was thought to peak with what was surely a new process, sometime in 2010. That isn't happening.

I agree, ATi is on a roll right now and they show no signs of stopping. nVidia is going to have to do something spectacular with their gtx 400 series cards pretty soon or their market share percentage will continue to shrink. I've used and liked their 8,9 and 200 series cards but right now they are kinda playing second fiddle to ATi's hardware in my book.

Hmmm going back as far as I can rememer.....

X800XL > 1800XL > HD1900XT > 8800GT > 2x HD4850's > 285GTX > ??? (Highly probably of ATI)

Right now imo the only thing nvidia has going for its self right now is their awesome CUDA platform. The only reason I would see myself owning a gtx 4 series is for cuda applications, although from reading the Seti@home forums here the 480 cant even do that very well compared to the 2xx series. Its only a matter of time now until OpenCL gains popularity due to its hardware agnostic properties that allow the use of x86 as well as GPU hardware. nVidia is going to have to come down in price to look more attractive to compensate for their heat issues and general level performance with their less expensive ATi counterparts.

Give me a break dude. I really quoted you that way so you couldn't quote me back? Chalk it up to my poor forum skills, not a conspiracy theory. Yikes. Why does Ati have to match Fermi? The 480 gains 3-6 frames in a couple of games over the 5870. If you find Fermi impressive, you must REALLY be impressed with the 5xxx series, since it came out 7 months ago and goes toe to toe with the 480 in most games. I considered going 2x gtx480 instead of my 2x 5870, but the power requirement were through the roof. That IS relevant regardless of what you think. I'm not arguing that the 480 isn't a nice, fast chip.

Let's wait until later this year before you confirm that Ati will not have a new process this year. Nvidia rode the 8/9 series for over 2 years.

The fact that you claim the 5 series is a 4 series with dx11 added in instantly negates any substance or seriousness you are capable of. Are you SERIOUS!? I had a 4870 and was very happy with my 5870 upgrade. Read any review/benchmark/charts. I really can't believe you wrote that.

New engines that software developers are "creaming their pants over"? Isn't it up to the software developers to create the new engines? Ati provided full dx11 support in their new chips. What did Nvidia offer with the fermi? Great Tessalation enhancements. Wow... Mind-blowing. Dx11? 7 months later.

Fermi "advances gaming" according to you, so any arguments back and forth are lost on you. You are so far in the tank drowning in kool-aid with a statement like that. REALLY? Fermi advances gaming? And you are REALLY going to trot out the "Way it's meant to be played" line? My catalyst drivers run every game I own. Crossfire works great. I am a happy boy.

I digress.

Hmmm

Because he's a fanboy that can't help himself. Your post was perfectly reasonable.

I know.

And this right here is QFT.

Ugh, let's not get started on charlie brown.

It sucks when its 100 degrees outside though. Because then your room being 3-5 degrees warmer sucks. Stupid desert...

GTX400 @ DX11 ftw.

ATi's architecture has been pretty much identical since the 2900XT. Since then, all they have done is increase the amount of shaders and play with the core speeds / GDDR configs. I wouldn't be surprised if their "new architecture" will be the exact same as the 5000 series but x2. The only obvious improvement IMO, should be the tessalation engine.

That said however, I hope 6000 series kicks butt. Always keeps nVidia on their toes. ATi is definitely pushing hard on nVidia right now performance/power draw. The only explanation I would have for this is the fact that nvidia's architecture is much more complex - which is not as efficient in DX9/DX10 games, but thrives in a DX11 environment. The 6000 should be hell bent on DX11 to de-throne the 400 series.

-D

Please stay on topic. This discussion is about the future 6000 seires from ATI, not about Fermi!

The 6000 series is going to use parts from a completely new architecture and if it's anymore efficient than the existing 5000 series architecture, Nvidia is in for a world of hurt because no die-shrink is going to save them.

I don't consider myself a fanboy at all, and while others say they are not, they are obviously making statements that are less than objective.

bottom line:
ATI is impressing right now. After 2-3 years of struggling to keep pace with Nvidia, they have their act together. The 5830 is their only 'flop' of a card, and it was probably only launched because of high demand across the 5800 series. If they can continue to build up their driver support, and not launch a lemon line-up of video cards, they'll be postured to do well. I had hoped ATI prices would drop when Fermi was released, but that's apparently not going to happen; at least not quite yet.

Nvidia is not impressing right now. Yes, they have the fastest single GPU card in the world, but it's also extremely hot, extremely noisy, and extremely power hungry. Having owned dozens of Nvidia video cards over the years, I can say this is the loudest video card I've ever had that didn't/doesn't have an overclock. The performance is impressive, but I expect better from Nvidia. I hope they get the next series right. If they don't, ATI is going to take a majority of the video card market away from them. Nvidia hit a grand slam with the 8800 series. I hope they do it again.. And yes, I'm sitting here with two GTX 470's at the moment, and wishing they would idle with temps that were comparable to my 5850's or 5870's.

I hope the 6000 series doesn't launch until Fall because I'm getting tired of buying video cards all the time!

I wonder if the 6000-Series Graphics Cards are really going to be outstanding, I have not heard of any real big changes in architecture.

I don't know about this. My Asus G73JH-A2 laptop has the Ati mobile 5870 in it that is 75watts and compares somewhere between a 5750 and 5770 @ stock. If you bump it up a little bit it can rival a 5770. If they can put it in a laptop, you'd think they could solder it onto a desktop motherboard right?

Have you looked at the GPU in your laptop? Odds are it's an MXM, so think about a 3.5x3.5 square absolutely packed in components. Now see if you can find room on a desktop mobo to put 3.5x3.5 of packed components and a cooler capable of getting rid of 75w.

And how many typical people have a case of that size to use those boards? Let alone the price of the board would go up.

CPU's are hot as is, sure they might only put off 100-120W on the high end, until OCed, but even then adding another 70-100W for the GPU. That requires a vastly larger CPU cooler that motherboards aren't accustomed to take. Not only that an intake/exhaust system should be highly considered in this case then to. There is no room on the motherboard to put a heatsink system like seen on a GPU.

+1

Even if 6000 (far fetched thought) would be on-chip, you'd end up with quite the power hog of a chip, not to forget about the size needed for each. That would require a monster socket with almost twice the amount of pins and then you're talking massive heat and power delivery issues...

Would be nice to see that happen in the next die shrinks though!