2 random questions :)

[plague]

Just some things I was wondering, no place better to ask them then right here...

1. If a good video card can render like 60 fps in a visually stunning game, why cant that power be used to render 3d images using bryce/3ds max/maya/etc. ???


2. I know how to hook up a sound card to a home stereo, but how do i get surround sound? theres front and rear jacks on a sound card, but left and right on a stereo reciever......


Any answers?

[Penguin4x4]

for #2, you need a home theater receiver. I believe that Maya and others are more OpenGL dependent. You can use regular cards, but apparantly you have to have CAD requirements to operate CAD programming or some BS like that.

[masitti]

For the speaker, the two front should be left and right... right?

[plague]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
for #2, you need a home theater receiver. I believe that Maya and others are more OpenGL dependent. You can use regular cards, but apparantly you have to have CAD requirements to operate CAD programming or some BS like that.
I'm saying, why do 3d images get rendered by the cpu when a video card would be able to do it in almost real time??

Originally posted by msmasitti
For the speaker, the two front should be left and right... right?
yes, but how do you get the rear out of the sound card to the stereo?

[Penguin4x4]

Like I said, BS.
Stereo receiver = 2 channels

[Check-X]

As for #1, the key for 3D rendering in programs such as 3DSMAX, MAYA, Lightwave, Bryce3D, AutoCad are all pushing hard for IMAGE QUALITY! moving a game along @ 60+fps is one thing.. but everything isn't rendered nearly as "perfect" as they do in a 3D program Although most cards DO render decently in the programs the cards specified for them generally DO work better... just remember ANY GeFore based card CAN be modified into a Quadro based professional graphics card! So if you are a gamer who works with such programs, time to get a GF4 Ti series and mod it up! then you'll have the best of both worlds (so far).

[justmiles23]

In order to rig up your comp to a surround sound reciever the best way would be with an optical out on a higher end sound card, without only one digital to analog conversion you will get a cleaner sound than using the normal speaker outputs on the sound card.

[---X---]

For the video rendering part of his question, I think he means why does it take time for the cpu to render the picture or whatever the thing is (area of great inexpertise for me :( ) instead of the graphics card rendering it right there. Just as a guess, I would think that the cpu has to calculate all the data and actually 'make' the the file/provide the information, whereas the graphics card just displays an already given picture

[CPFitz14]

Could you explain a little bit more about that modding thing, Check X. Thanks.

-CPFitz-

[Penguin4x4]

Here's #1 Explained, along with the Quadro hack (http://www.tweak3d.net/faq/faq.cgi#hw:gef:quadro)

[DarkArctic]

3D graphics programs like 3ds max and maya use custom effects for modelling and so need a chip that can be programmable. High-end graphics cards offer a few features that are used by CAD programs, but a majority of the work is still being done by the processor. Current graphics cards are not totally programmable while the CPU is. Through the use of the CPU CAD programs can create these custom effects. Once graphics chip manufacturers can create a GPU that can be as programmable as the CPU, then your card will come into play a great deal. Until then, you'll have to stick with your CPU.

-DarkArctic

[Penguin4x4]

Originally posted by DarkArctic
3D graphics programs like 3ds max and maya use custom effects for modelling and so need a chip that can be programmable. High-end graphics cards offer a few features that are used by CAD programs, but a majority of the work is still being done by the processor. Current graphics cards are not totally programmable while the CPU is. Through the use of the CPU CAD programs can create these custom effects. Once graphics chip manufacturers can create a GPU that can be as programmable as the CPU, then your card will come into play a great deal. Until then, you'll have to stick with your CPU.

-DarkArctic

Or wait until the programmable 3DLabs Wildcat P10 Video Processing Unit comes around. Think of VGA cards as mini-computers: Then P10 uses the cards memory as on chip cache, like the old PII's and Socket 7 AMD's, so its all processor. Today's cards use a processor and memory. The memory helps to help launch apps,(or in this case, pixels and shadows and effects.), like computers.

[DarkArctic]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4


Or wait until the programmable 3DLabs Wildcat P10 Video Processing Unit comes around. Think of VGA cards as mini-computers: Then P10 uses the cards memory as on chip cache, like the old PII's and Socket 7 AMD's, so its all processor. Today's cards use a processor and memory. The memory helps to help launch apps,(or in this case, pixels and shadows and effects.), like computers.

I've heard of that chip. But I also hear that it's going to be quite expensive. It should release all of the graphics load off of the CPU, which means better physics, AI, etc. We'll be fighting life-like bots before you know it. :D

-DarkArctic

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by justmiles23
In order to rig up your comp to a surround sound reciever the best way would be with an optical out on a higher end sound card, without only one digital to analog conversion you will get a cleaner sound than using the normal speaker outputs on the sound card.

exactly what i was going to say. you can pick up a oem soundblaster audigy from newegg for 60 bucks http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=57&manufactory=1137&DEPA=1

which also has a ieee 1394 port which is very nice for transferring large amounts of data to and from portable devices.

ps. i think the audigy has coaxial digital, not optical... but both are equivalent for all real world applications.

[Penguin4x4]

Originally posted by DarkArctic


I've heard of that chip. But I also hear that it's going to be quite expensive. It should release all of the graphics load off of the CPU, which means better physics, AI, etc. We'll be fighting life-like bots before you know it. :D

-DarkArctic

Well, the 3DLabs Wildcat edition will go against the Quadro and Fire GL. The Creative line will be aimed at the GeForce and Radeons.

[plague]

Originally posted by Maxvla


exactly what i was going to say. you can pick up a oem soundblaster audigy from newegg for 60 bucks http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=57&manufactory=1137&DEPA=1

which also has a ieee 1394 port which is very nice for transferring large amounts of data to and from portable devices.

ps. i think the audigy has coaxial digital, not optical... but both are equivalent for all real world applications.
well i have a live! x-gamer that has spdif digital out. could i use that to get full surround??

the reason for this question is because my roommate at school just got a 36" sony flat screen for the dorm:D but he has a cheap dvd player. we were gonna hook up my computer to it to play dvds, but i want full 5.1 surround which my card can do, just wasnt sure if an spdif jack would carry all the channels to the stereo left and right RCAs.

[Penguin4x4]

Do you have Video Out? Just use that. Play the DVD on your computer, and output to the TV. Either that or buy a new home theater receiver.

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by plague

well i have a live! x-gamer that has spdif digital out. could i use that to get full surround??

the reason for this question is because my roommate at school just got a 36" sony flat screen for the dorm:D but he has a cheap dvd player. we were gonna hook up my computer to it to play dvds, but i want full 5.1 surround which my card can do, just wasnt sure if an spdif jack would carry all the channels to the stereo left and right RCAs.

what would be perfect for you is to get a dvd decoder card.

i don't know what your planning on for your video, but video out from graphics cards completely suck ass. i have a dvd decoder card like the one in my signature. its 45.00 from here
http://www.computer123.com/specx.asp?did=123&act=viewitem&name=sku&val=CDSDEM8300&SKU=CDSDEM8300&compact=1
this will give you crystal clear video and its certified for dolby digital. its got a coaxial digital output for your 5.1 reciever.

it may be more than you want to spend but it is easily worth twice as much. and worth every penny of 45 bucks.

unless you can't afford to buy anything i would certainly get one. you don't know how good it is until you try it unfortunately.

[Penguin4x4]

Video out looks pretty good on my 19" Magnavox.:p Most DVD-ROM's boasts the same decoding features, and the Live! X-Gamer outputs AC-3(Dolby Digital)

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
Video out looks pretty good on my 19" Magnavox.:p Most DVD-ROM's boasts the same decoding features, and the Live! X-Gamer outputs AC-3(Dolby Digital)

the dvd rom doesn't do anything but read the dvds.

and yes... every video card video out i've ever seen is pure junk.

i think he'll be much better off with a sigma designs hollywood plus. its like having a standalone dvd player, actually exactly the same quality.

[Penguin4x4]

OK, most DVD-ROMs read the same formats. Every one you've seen.

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
OK, most DVD-ROMs read the same formats. Every one you've seen.

what are you talking about? :confused:

all dvdroms read the same format. i'm talking about decoder cards and you're talking about dvd drives.

the dvd drive is just a dumb piece of machinery. the motherboard/videocard/decoder card do all the work.

[Sworkhard]

He's confused. He thinks that it's how well the dvd rom drive reads that creates the image quality from a dvd. It's not that. They all read the same quality which is much higher than a video card can put out. A decoder card takes advantage of this "extra" quality giving you a better picture. I hope this makes sense. Ati's R300 Should change this story though when it comes out in August or September and supports 128bit colour- yes, 16000 colours per chanell instead of 256. It will make a huge diff in picture quality on some games and no, you won't notice a difference in the quality of your desktop backround.

[Penguin4x4]

"As one of the lead developers of the ground-breaking technology known as DVD, Toshiba continues to be at the forefront of the market with DVD computer products. DVD heightens the computing, interactive and multimedia experiences with leading-edge playback capabilities such as MPEG-2 video and Dolby Digital AC-3 audio". Playback, read, decode, its all the same to me. The data then goes to your video card. If you're saying that current video cards are crap, :burn:

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
"As one of the lead developers of the ground-breaking technology known as DVD, Toshiba continues to be at the forefront of the market with DVD computer products. DVD heightens the computing, interactive and multimedia experiences with leading-edge playback capabilities such as MPEG-2 video and Dolby Digital AC-3 audio". Playback, read, decode, its all the same to me. The data then goes to your video card. If you're saying that current video cards are crap, :burn:

you don't understand... we're not talking about video card gaming performance.

we're talking about a totally different function on the card.

if you have ever seen the video out from one of these you would know. but apparently you haven't.

the dvd drive does NOTHING! all it does is pull the data off the dvd disc and sends it to the processor, etc.

clearly you have no experience in this area. im not saying your an idiot or anything... but since you don't know what your talking about you might want to sit back and learn.

[Penguin4x4]

I think I know a thing or 2 (http://www.guru3d.com/review/visiontek/xtasygeforce4ti/index7.shtml). ATI's are a different story. If you want to waste $45 for superior output, be my guest. I can handle 2nd best.(Using A TV beside my monitor.:D )

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
I think I know a thing or 2 (http://www.guru3d.com/review/visiontek/xtasygeforce4ti/index7.shtml). ATI's are a different story. If you want to waste $45 for superior output, be my guest. I can handle 2nd best.(Using A TV beside my monitor.:D )

ok you just proved you don't know.

lets think about this... "waste 45$ for better quality" why not? its better quality.. you're going to pay more.

and those shots on that page were taken from a computer monitor not a TV. which the monitor is always going to look great but its the TV output on these cards that can't even touch the dvd decoder card. my personal gf2 card has video out and it's horrible, yet pretty good for a video card.

you are looking at reviews to support your "claims" yet you definately don't have any experience. have you ever seen video output on a TV from a video card? does it look like its coming from a component dvd player like in a home theater system? no it doesn't.

also... this card will do the dolby digital sound as well. so this is two birds with one stone.

your turn... but for your sake i hope you don't take it.

[Penguin4x4]

Yes, I had a ATI Radeon 64 with VIVO, great quality. Then a lightning storm zapped her:mad:. His sound card outputs Dolby Digital. Oh well.

[Maxvla]

you = http://members.directvinternet.com/maxvla/greddy.gif

[Penguin4x4]

How in the hell did you do that? Anyway, Plague, its your call. Not our's. I wouldn't know the quality on anything larger than 19". but you don't need your receiver to plug in your speakers.

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
How in the hell did you do that?

do what? put a picture in my post?

[Penguin4x4]

Oh, I see. Whatever. where'd plague go?

[plague]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
Oh, I see. Whatever. where'd plague go?
hehe, im right here - you guys were rockin this thread while i was out though:)

anyway - I just ordered a gainward 4400 VIVO, so i'll use the video out on that. I'm not asking for perfect quality like i get on a computer monitor, i realize that's expecting too much. But the dvd player my roommate has is crap - it fades in and out every couple seconds and gives off that reddish haze around peoples faces.... it hurts to watch a movie on it. I'm sure a gf4 will do better, i'll just have to see.

so my main concern is with the audio, but i think an spdif jack will carry the whole 5.1 signal. if anyone has done this, let me know - if youre not sure about it, dont worry ill find out sometime. thanks all.

[Penguin4x4]

Link (http://www.soundblaster.com/products/gamer5.1/features.asp)

[Maxvla]

too bad you didn't go for the decoder card. the gf4 should be alright... not perfect, but better than red glowing people. lol.

i got this card with my dvd drive last december for 50 bucks. it was a steal. pricewatch rules!