View Full Version : Will this work? Please comment
lazerin
07-13-02, 03:11 AM
Hi,
This is my first post here, so be kind :)
I have an XP1800+ on an epox 8khal+ motherboard. The cpu is using the default HSF. Its running at around 40deg cel at idle and 50deg cel when maxed out. I know these are not ideal temps for the cpu, thats why i came up with this idea.
My idea is to create a tunnel between an 80mm fan and the HSF. To help me explain this, i've drawn up a very very rough diagram of what im on about.
The 80mm case fan is attached to the back of the case below the psu. I will set it to be an intake fan, so it will blow into the case. Then I will create an L-Shaped tunnel leading to the HSF and cpu. The tunnel will be sealed tight to the 80mm fan but will not actually touch the HSF.
I am not sure how this will go. Please give me some feedback and comments on what you think of it. Contructive critism is also welcomed.
Lazerin
lazerin
07-13-02, 03:15 AM
the picture didnt show up the first time, so i'll try again...
Arkaine23
07-13-02, 03:16 AM
Welcome to the forums!!! And what a great 1st post!
That will certainly help your temps. However, you need to make sure you are still exhausting hot air from the case at a good rate. If there's a fan at the lower front of your case, you'll probably want to make tha into an exhaust. A copper heatsink and fairly high volume fan will also do you a world of good.
If you want to attach pictures, make them no bigger than 600x600 and they should be jpg format. You can do these conversions with MSpaint, Irfanview (free from cnet.com), and many other programs.
First things first.
Welcome aboard!!! :D
Next, even being a newb, no one here should attack(flame) you. We here dislike that to the unth degree, and yes, the mods will do something about it.
Now, for your idea there. Im not sure but what your saying I think is along the lines of a duct, which many have done and have had great results with.
One question, will there be a fan on the heatsink as well?
One thing I might suggest here, keep the present hsf on there. That seems to be doing a decent job. Granted, not great, but decent. Then add in the duct as your talking about and have it blow the air across the hsf. So the regular will be blowing directly down, and the duct will be blowing across.
That might help some. Are you sure its due to air circulation within the case? An easy way to test this, take the side of the case off. Place a small fan blowing across the case, to keep fresh air going in, but not activly cooling the case. If the temps drop, then I would bet the duct would help. If not, then its highly possible your at your limits with that particular hsf.
Again, welcome aboard!!!
Luck
IFMU
MEAT BAG
07-13-02, 04:45 AM
just do the tunnel straight out the side
lazerin
07-13-02, 05:17 AM
Thx for the welcome guys :)
I don't really want to have the duct on the side because then I have to cut my case up.....and its a very nice silver, charcoal case.
Yes I will be leaving the hsf alone. I was wondering whether having the intake fan at the back would make it suck in hot air from the psu exhaust??
Also, will the L-shaped duct cause a negative effect? eg, make it less effecctive.
Thanks for all ur help guys!
MEAT BAG
07-13-02, 05:22 AM
it would restrict flow more then a straight one and it would get some hot air sucked in
PYROMANIAC
07-13-02, 05:22 AM
since u've gotten all the help lemme add something
WELCOME TO THE FORUMS
MEAT BAG
07-13-02, 05:23 AM
ROFL IN YOUR MAYO
Arkaine23
07-13-02, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by lazerin
Thx for the welcome guys :)
I don't really want to have the duct on the side because then I have to cut my case up.....and its a very nice silver, charcoal case.
Yes I will be leaving the hsf alone. I was wondering whether having the intake fan at the back would make it suck in hot air from the psu exhaust??
Also, will the L-shaped duct cause a negative effect? eg, make it less effecctive.
Thanks for all ur help guys!
Yes, the intake will probably suck a little hot air in, unless you make a cheap deflector that fits on the back of the PSU and blows the hot air up and away from the rear intake fan.
Yes, there will be some loss in momentum if the air is not flowing in a straight line.
Removing the side panel is a really good way to see if you need better case airflow. You can probably get down 5-7C from where your load temp is at by doing so- just a guess. That's one reason I always recommend to my frineds that they head to the hardware store and replace their (OEM, yuck) PCs' side panel with screen like from a screen door. So far no takers...
Originally posted by Arkaine23
Removing the side panel is a really good way to see if you need better case airflow. You can probably get down 5-7C from where your load temp is at by doing so- just a guess. That's one reason I always recommend to my frineds that they head to the hardware store and replace their (OEM, yuck) PCs' side panel with screen like from a screen door. So far no takers...
Please tell me you are joking...
Arkaine23
07-13-02, 07:03 AM
No, this is an idea I've seriously been tinkering with. Several of my friends have HP pentium 3 systems, and they blow chunks for too many reasons to list. When I pull the side panels off of these PC's, I can feel the heat from 3 feet away!
A lot of people don't like running without the side panel- dust, bugs, EMF, aesthetics... Also my friends don't have a dremel tool and are not likely to get one so that they can cut up those tiny HP cases to add fans. Cheap-skates! Computer abusers! But then I haven't gone out to buy a dremel tool yet either... :eek: I don't have a need for one, yet. My case has plenty of fans.
Now, pulling off the side panel and having a piece of screen securely fastened to the top edge of the case seems like a decent and very cheap solution. It would be like a flap in that only the top side is attached to the case in a semi-permanent fashion. The bottom two corners would be held with poster putty, so it'd be easy to remove and get in there. I bet you could even mount fans to the inside of the screen with thin pieces of wire or even a bit of epoxy.
It wouldn't look like our ubercool custom PC's do, but it wouldn't be too bad and might actually keep dust and bugs out fairly well if its a fine mesh screen. As for EMF, a lot of people do run with no side panel at all for months and don't have any trouble... and there are those acryllic cases too- no EMF shielding. Could even color-match a black or silver case.
It's just an idea for those who need case cooling on the cheap. If you think its silly, then :P
Its definitely a function over form solution, but has its merits as opposed to running with no side panel at all.
My 1800+ runs at 50c (100% seti )with stock hsf, there is no difference with the side panel on or off, maybe its because it is a full tower with the 3.5 in bays removed, you can throw a party in there :D
anyway back to the question, use some cardboard and try it, if it dosn't work no loss.
:beer:
lazerin
07-13-02, 07:27 AM
Actually, I run with my side panel off 90% of the time. The other 10% im usually sleeping. The noise of the fans in my computer is quite loud. I have two 80mm fans, a cpu fan, a 40mm fan on my northbridge and two fans on my gf4 ti4400. As you can imagine, its almost equivelent to a vacuum cleaner! But when the case is closed, its not so bad.
The aim of my duct project is purely so I can lower my cpu temps and maybe overclock a bit.
I just thought of another problem that I need help with. The duct is gonna be L shaped. So should I have the corner at 90deg, curved or with a 45deg bent like:
| |
| |
| |_____
\
\ ______
Which one will be most effective?
Finally, I've noticed that airflow from fans isn't straight. It seems to come out with a centrifugal motion, sorta like its moving off to a corner. If this is the case, will the duct make the air come out only in one corner of the opening? if this is so, then will i need to have fins inside the actuall duct to direct the airflow?
I dont think that the bent in the duct will be that significant because of the fact that I'll have an 80mm fan pushing the air down the duct towards the HSF & cpu.
A curve or 45 degree angle will be better than 90 degrees, with the 90 you are blowing air onto a surface square with the fan, creating backpressure.
Imho with a fan at both ends the shape or placement of airflow wont matter to any degree, so no fins needed.
:beer::
Penguin4x4
07-13-02, 07:40 AM
two 45 degree angles or even better 3 30 degree angles would help, as well as 2 fans: One on the heatsink, one on the case blowing into the duct.
Originally posted by Arkaine23
Its definitely a function over form solution, but has its merits as opposed to running with no side panel at all.
Really, what are they? Cutting holes in a case would be much easier and less silly. Or better yet a duct would also be much better, easier and vastly less silly.
packratbob
07-13-02, 08:06 AM
if u can use a high flow fan something large then an 80mm. i ducted a 120mm sunon to a stock hsf and saw a 6 deg drop. but the duct was sealed to the hsf so it force 108cfm thru it. but if u just trying to introduce colder air from the back i think ur idea should do fine
lazerin --
I just suggest instead of worry about yer 45 degree angles and whatnot just get a small piece of dryer duct or whatever and just make a really short duct from the back fan to the cpu right where you were planning. Im not talking about the rigid metal stuff im talkin about the soft stuff. Do searches for ducts or whatever in the cooling section of these forums, you will get about 900 million results.
Arkaine23
07-13-02, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Demont
Really, what are they? Cutting holes in a case would be much easier and less silly. Or better yet a duct would also be much better, easier and vastly less silly.
I'm just playing with this idea... I agree with you about cutting holes being better for a lot of reasons. This is not a cooling technique I want or need for my computers. I just brought it up because lazerin said he wouldn't want to mess up his side panel by cutting it up.
Theoretical merits over no side panel:
Slightly better looking. No bugs in the case. Possibly less dust in the case. Might even be able to mount fans in startegic places. Better aesthetically, but not by a wide margin.
Theoretical merits over cutting holes:
For those who have no dremel, are afraid to cut up their case, or need a cheap solution, this would be ideal.
Theoretical merits over a duct:
Might be better than a duct if a few fans were used since it would help cool the whole case (video card overclocking, HDD cooling, etc, not just the CPU. But if it were me without the means or desire to cut holes in my case, I'd use a duct as well as a screen side panel.
PS. Just FYI... My case cooling-
80mm front exhaust (30cfm) grill removed by me,
80mm rear exhaust(53cfm) grill removed by me,
80mm side intake AGP (30cfm),
92mm side intake with inline duct to CPU (66cfm) widened from 80mm by me.
Some 40mm fans scattered here and there over vents...
Case temps within 1C of ambient temp according to Digidoc 5.
The screen idea is for my friends who can't/don't want to spend money on their PCs and have no dremel or no desire to use one.
With that outta the way, let's get back on track and talk about ducts. I found rubber PVC pipe adapters make pretty good inline ducts. Cardboard is also commonly used, as is non-metallic dryer duct as stated above.
ATLPIMP
07-13-02, 12:41 PM
It *will* help your temps... but it will help even more if you can make the duct less restrictive(?). Try and round the duct, rather than having the air have to make that 90* turn.
lazerin
07-13-02, 11:41 PM
I've just begun work on my duct. Im gonna make it out of cardboard and its gonna have a rounded end at the L corner.
I should get it finished in bout 20mins give or take.
Wish me luck!
JudgeDredd
07-13-02, 11:46 PM
My Dell PIII has such a duct you speak of. It's a 92mm fan mounted on the back, and a plastic duct clips in around the heatsink and the fan pulls air off of it.
ATLPIMP
07-13-02, 11:59 PM
I've seen those ducts in a lot of Dells/OEMs.
Originally posted by ATLPIMP
I've seen those ducts in a lot of Dells/OEMs.
Yeah I fix those at work, but a normal duct would still be better, I don't see the point of this L-shaped thing...
lazerin
07-14-02, 06:05 AM
What do you mean by normal duct? I have to have an L shaped duct because Im connecting the 80mm fan from the back of the case to cpu on the motherboard which is perpendicular to it.
Originally posted by lazerin
What do you mean by normal duct? I have to have an L shaped duct because Im connecting the 80mm fan from the back of the case to cpu on the motherboard which is perpendicular to it.
What you have is more of an air chute. Im saying a duct like a dryer duct or something would be better. Search for threads about ducting, you will see what I mean. But if you already have it working fine I wouldn't worry too much...
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