SETI on dual performance..?

[Camelot One]

what sort of WU times are you guys getting compared to single processors at the same speed? My understanding is that its all about the MFLOPS, so I would think you would be close to twice as fast, but wanted to check before investing.

[Jon]

Doesn't work that way. SETI isn't multithreaded so you can only run two clients at the same time. Performance is less than that of a single processor but you are getting in twice that amount of work.

If a single processor can do a WU in 4hrs then plan on a dual of the same speed taking roughly 4hr 30m (give or take a few minutes) for the same WU...you will just be able to turn in two WUs in this amount of time.

[Camelot One]

My mistake, I thought it was smp. Ok, well, better check my other desired appz then.
Sonic Foundry Vegas Video 3.x
Lightwave 7
Adobe Premiere
RadGame tools (don't really expect anyone to know this one)

Sorry, I guess this puts it off topic from the title.

[Jon]

To my knowledge, all of those are SMP-capable (the last one too).

[Camelot One]

Great. Then that solves the "should I upgrade" issue.

Thanks.

[lonewolf1983]

yep Seti isnt multithreaded, but you can run 2 clients at once, for almost double the output.
Plus since your other apps are multithreaded, looks like the way to go for you :)

hope your crunching seti for the #1 team...ours! :burn:

[Camelot One]

Well guess I should run a few hardware things by you guys then, because I am pretty sure I am going to take the plunge.
Going to gut my current system, so the Dual would be setup as follows:
Chaintech 7KDD
2x AMD XP2100+ (I know about the bridge work needed)
2xMaxtor 740L series 80Gb RAID striped
1xSeagate Barracuda IV 80Gb (backup, not always connected)
Gainward GF4 4600 750 Golden Sample
3-com 10/100
SB Live 5.1
2xCorsair XMS3200 512Mb
Philips DVDRom+CDRW drive (combo, not 2 drives)
Enermax 465P-Ve
Case cooling that keeps sys temp 1C over ambient

See any problems there? I'm not real sure 450W is enough for 2 AMD chips and the GF4. Also, I have a ThermalTake Volcano 7+ that keeps my 145x13 2100 10C over sys (cpu@37) under full load. Can I get away with just using the stock AMD HSF on the second chip, since it won't be overclocked? My understanding on memory is that the Chaintech supports registered ECC< but will run the Corsair. (or so they claim) Any major concerns there?

BTW, I am new to this forum, so if this should go in a new thread, just say so.

[diehrd]

Quick Question ? JON

Why is it stated that on a dual a WU will take a half hour longer ?

I have 2 XP1800 are you saying that a single XP1800 wil fold faster then on my dual when I am running 2 instances 1 for each processor ? When the system is only folding,, each processor is at 100% usage no different then on a single and the folding or seti is a processor usage only program...So why is it mine would be slower ??????????

If that is what you are saying can you explain this....

[Jon]

Originally posted by diehrd
Quick Question ? JON

Why is it stated that on a dual a WU will take a half hour longer ?

I have 2 XP1800 are you saying that a single XP1800 wil fold faster then on my dual when I am running 2 instances 1 for each processor ? When the system is only folding,, each processor is at 100% usage no different then on a single and the folding or seti is a processor usage only program...So why is it mine would be slower ??????????

If that is what you are saying can you explain this....

I suppose it depends on the chipset you're comparing that dual to, which I didn't mention and does make a difference. In a comparable chipset it's still a little slower in SETI's case though, by anywhere between 15-30 minutes depending on the WU. Can't explain it but out of 4 duallies of different processor speeds and types, those same processors always turned in better times when they were run on single boards for me. Intel PIII duals were the biggest differences, even when running only one chip in the board then adding the second. I'd say that is due to the shared memory bus for each processor the boards I used (still have a couple) had.

As far as folding goes, can't say if it's affected like that or not. Haven't been folding long and not paid any attention to anything like that.

[Wolverez]

Originally posted by Jon


I suppose it depends on the chipset you're comparing that dual to, which I didn't mention and does make a difference. In a comparable chipset it's still a little slower in SETI's case though, by anywhere between 15-30 minutes depending on the WU. Can't explain it but out of 4 duallies of different processor speeds and types, those same processors always turned in better times when they were run on single boards for me. Intel PIII duals were the biggest differences, even when running only one chip in the board then adding the second. I'd say that is due to the shared memory bus for each processor the boards I used (still have a couple) had.

As far as folding goes, can't say if it's affected like that or not. Haven't been folding long and not paid any attention to anything like that.

I do believe that you are right on about the shared memory bus, I saw that in one of the PC Mags but I can't remember which one.

[diehrd]

I may be wrong but if I remember right AMD uses a point to point bus .


Q: What is Smart MP technology?

A: Smart MP technology features dual point-to-point, high-speed 266MHz system buses, an optimized "MOESI" cache coherency protocol, which manages data and memory traffic, as well as innovative ?snoop? buses, which offer high-speed communication between the CPUs in a multiprocessing systems. Smart MP technology optimizes the execution of multi-threaded, mission-critical applications empowering your enterprise to achieve new levels of productivity.

Maby i misunderstand this but it reads like each processor has its own bus............

[Wolverez]

Originally posted by diehrd
I may be wrong but if I remember right AMD uses a point to point bus .


Q: What is Smart MP technology?

A: Smart MP technology features dual point-to-point, high-speed 266MHz system buses, an optimized "MOESI" cache coherency protocol, which manages data and memory traffic, as well as innovative ?snoop? buses, which offer high-speed communication between the CPUs in a multiprocessing systems. Smart MP technology optimizes the execution of multi-threaded, mission-critical applications empowering your enterprise to achieve new levels of productivity.

Maby i misunderstand this but it reads like each processor has its own bus............

I think that this technology started with the AMD-760 chip set andthe AMD1900+

The older chipset worked like this:

Shared Memory
A straightforward way to connect several processors together to build a multiprocessor is shown in Figure 7. The physical connections are quite simple. Most bus structures allow an arbitrary (but not too large) number of devices to communicate over the bus. Bus protocols were initially designed to allow a single processor and one or more disk or tape controllers to communicate with memory. If the I/O controllers are replaced by processors, one has a small single-bus multiprocessor.

The problem with this design is that processors must contend for access to the bus. If a processor P is fetching an instruction, all other processors P must wait until the bus is free. If there are only two processors they can perform close to their maximum rate since the bus can alternate between them: as one processor is decoding and executing an instruction, the other can be using the bus to fetch its next instruction. However, when a third processor is added performance begins to degrade.

[lonewolf1983]

all the 760MP/MPX chipsets support a seperate bus to the memory for each controller.
the reason for the slower times on the duals lies in the fact that their memory controller isnt as fast as those in the kt266a and kt333 boards,and as such are slightly slower in times.
But the dual can run 2 instances, giving you a greater production.
:)

[Camelot One]

Speaking of which, I am a bit confused on the Chaintech. Have a look at the newegg description here:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=22&manufactory=1487&DEPA=1

There is only 1 review, but in it states "yeah, KT333 dual" or something to that effect. Yet the Chaintech site lists it as an AMD 762+768MP that supports PC1600/2100.

Either way, sounds like Dual is the way to go for me. Any problems with my proposed hardware?

[LandShark]

yeah, a duallie rig WILL crunch slightly slower than a uni rig!! that's mainly due to the fact the MPX chipset is built w/ stability in mind, not performance like the KT266/333.

my slower clock speed uni rig crunch faster than my faster clock speed duallie.

btw, w/ all those stuffs u've mentioned, a 430W psu might be a bit pushing!! if for me, i would at least get a good 500W psu for it!

good luck!

[heezer7]

i am running my dual on a turbo link 420 watt with no problems w/all but 1 pci slot full and almost everything elsed maxed out. i even ran it for a while off of a 250watt believe it or not. if you have a decient PSU i would try it off of that before you buy a new one.

[cmcquistion]

Regarding your choice of hardware. A few recommendations.

First the motherboard. I don't know much about Chaintech, but I would be wary. They are a generic brand. Check out several reviews from reputable sites before you buy that one. The motherboard is the backbone of your system. Make it a good one.

Next, your RAM. No need to get PC3200, you're never going to get the FSB anywhere close to 200 (400) with an AMD 760MP or 760MPX chipset. If you know you're going to overclock the crap out of it, get PC2400 (150FSB) or PC2700 (166FSB) for a little headroom. Oh yeah, get registered ECC RAM. Samsung makes some registered ECC PC2700.

Also, a lot of people have complained about poor performance out of Enermax power supplies, especially in duallies, the 465 series seems to be one of the lemons. You may want to consider an Antec, about the same cost or maybe slightly more, but much better reputation for performance.

Lastly, check out 2cpu.com for a ton of great info and helpful forum.

[Camelot One]

So far I haven't been able to find any reviews on the board. Or more detailed info, etc. Just whats posted on the Chaintech site. I spent the better part of the afternoon trying to get in touch with them to get more info, and after my experience, they are not an option. I just won't spend money with a company that wants me to call a 900 number to get detailed product information.

On the RAM, I already have the 3200, which would be the only reason for using it. I am trying to cut down on setup costs as much as I can. The only thing I need to setup a dual is the board itself. (as long as the board supports unregistered DDR)

[heezer7]

the asus a7m266-d is the only board i know of that offically supports unregistered dr. that is why i bought it. things may have changed since them with the iwill mp2 and any others that may have scome out. the asus has been a great board for me for the last 2 months

[cmcquistion]

The Iwill MPX2 is a piece of garbage. It accepts unregistered RAM, but it's flaky as h*ll. Trust me. Don't waste your money on it.

[TheDS]

What, the unregistered RAM, or the board? Mine should be here Friday or Monday (damn Fedex for taking weekends off) so I guess I'll find out.

[cmcquistion]

The motherboard is flaky. I tried several different sticks of memory. Swapped every component at least once, still unstable. Finally sent it back. I should get an MSI K7D Master tomorrow.

[percadann]

hello:

ive been running the seti now for three weeks and i just saw this thread and had a question about the running two setis at once? how do i do this? thx perc.........

[IFMU]

Originally posted by percadann
hello:

ive been running the seti now for three weeks and i just saw this thread and had a question about the running two setis at once? how do i do this? thx perc.........

Check this out >~ Seti on Duals (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91425)

Its pretty easy actually. PM me if you need any help and Ill see what I can do.

[heezer7]

all that you have to do is set you cashe to be higher the 2 and the maximum processes to 2. you will not see any stats or percentages of the second WU but it is running. you will see a secord CLC open if you look in task manager. that is it

[IFMU]

Originally posted by heezer7
all that you have to do is set you cashe to be higher the 2 and the maximum processes to 2. you will not see any stats or percentages of the second WU but it is running. you will see a secord CLC open if you look in task manager. that is it

And you can see the updating on it if you open a second copy of Seti Driver. Just copy it and rename Seti Driver to Seti Driver2 or soemthing and it will show you how much of the 2nd process is completed.

[LandShark]

2 way. first, go to HERE (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62194) to set up the commend line client if u haven't do so.

then, there's 2 way u could set up the SETIDriver to run 2 client at the same time.

1. by default on a duallie, SETIDriver should automatic detect both 2 CPUs, and try to run 2 copy of client at the same time. so, u r good to go. also, u could either click "set affinity" in SETIDriver or let Windows handle it. either way, it doesn't matter much.
pro.--easy to setup, pretty much automatically.
con.--u can only check on one client since SETIDriver & SETISpy could only show one client. not both two. but u can see both is running under task manager.

2. make 2 folder, SETI1 & SETI2, each folder contain a copy of SETIDriver & CLC, no SETISpy. run each SETIDriver from each different folder. and before u start getting any WUs, be sure to set max. processes to "1" instead of default "2"!! u'll see 2 SETIDriver r running.
pro.--now u can keep ur eye on both 2 client 'cos each SETIDriver is showing/controling it's own client.
con.--a bit harder to setup (well, actually it's not!) not using SETISpy. some of our Team (http://www.ocsetiteam.com) members could. but on both of my duallie, i couldn't! everytime if i use SETISpy also, it seems like it's trying to control both of the SETIDriver, or things got mess up.

good luck!! if u'll need further instruction or any other help, feel free to stop by the SETI Forum (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=18). we'll be there for u!! ;)

[heezer7]

but then you have 4 icons in your taskbar and it doesn't really matter the % just that it is working and the WU total is shooting up. even though mine isn't b/c my 1 MP died and amd has it. See retail is worth it.

[LandShark]

no, u won't! if just one SETIDriver & one SETISpy icon if u use method 1. or just two SETIDriver icon if following method 2.