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GamblerFEXonlin
07-28-02, 10:19 AM
That's my angle after two generations with an SMP system. Just to inform you, I'm a hard-core gamer and I use my computer to make graphics with programs like Lightwave 3d, adobe premiere and photoshop.

I used Win2k and now I use WinXP pro with it. Here is the system specs:

first "generation"
Asus P2B-DS
2x P3-450
256MB ram
Matrox G400 Max
SB Live Player 1024

Problems:
The SB live was incompatible with SMP systems, so I had crackling and popping in games. Rebooting with /ONECPU trigger everytime I wanted to play a game was a pain.

Later I got a SB Live Player 5.1 and had the same problem. However, the Audigy is supposedly compatible with SMP systems, but the Philips Acoustic Edge is officially incompatible with SMP.

second generation:
Asus P2B-DS (kept this fine BX motherboard)
2x P3-800
448MB ram
GF2 (later a GF3)
Hercules GameTheaterXP

Problems:
GTXP would crackle and pop when in 5.1 mode in games. Later drivers got better, but it still crackles if I use a .1 i.e 4.1 or 5.1 modes. The bass management sucks too (in my experience with the card) so till now I've used it as nothing more than a stereo soundcard digitally connected to my Marantz SR7000 receiver. The audioquality IMO is very good, and not so colored as the SB lives I've had. The bass is tighter too if I recall correctly.

Positive sides of a SMP system:
- I can play quake3 while lightwave renders in the background, though I do take a small performance-hit.
- supposedly better multitasking. (this is partially correct)
- if a program set's itself to "high priority" and is very busy, the system won't slow down

NEgative sides:
- It's rediculously expensive compared to the application and multitasking performance gain
- Some hardware doesn't work with SMP systems
- Better multitasking is a myth in my experience. I've not felt any difference with 1 CPU vs. SMP mode.
- Did I say it's expensive? You can buy a 1.5x better CPU and double your ammount of RAM and still have money left.

Win2k/XP is a "modern" OS with pre-emptive multitasking and good memory management. It multitasks excellent with only 1 CPU. Ok, so it's nice to have a program in the background using one CPU while you for instance model a 3d object on the other CPU (subdividing and boolean operations can take a lot of CPU power), but it's much nicer IMO to set the background program in low-priority mode and have the subdividing/boolean operations finish 1.5 times quicker (they would use all CPU power).

No, skip the SMP and invest the saved money in the fastest CPU available (or if you plan on overclocking just get a medium fast CPU), twice the amount of RAM and a better 3D card (if you would use the system with gaming).

An SMP motherboard is about twice as expensive as a regular motherboard (Asus A7N266-C vs. Asus A7M-266-D) and you would save $100 on 2x medium CPU vs 1x fastest CPU (2x Athlon MP 1.4GHz vs 1x Athlon XP 1.733GHz).

Think about it. All you're applications and games would run 1.5 times as fast, especially quake 3 and older games as they are very CPU dependant, and newer games would also run faster as now you have lots of money to spare that can be used on a faster 3D card.


Programs and games that use SMP is very rare, as it is very difficult to program applications to be multithreaded. The only 3D-cards that has SMP support is the ones from nVidia, but even they have problems. Earlier drivers of the GF3 does not support SMP, some GF2 drivers does not, and with latest drivers+GF3 one must run Quake 3 in realtime priority or else it crashes.


No, I cannot see any real benefits worth it (not even in a server) to go SMP, save you're money and enjoy better performance. My experience, my next system will be (if I buy it today):

Asus A7N266-C Hovedkort for Socket A DDR
- nForce415D, ATA/100, ATX, DDR, lyd
AMD Athlon XP1800+ 1.53 GHz 266 MHz bus (overclock it like mad)
- Socket A (Palomino) prosessor
Gainward AGP GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB DDR
- "Ultra/650TV/DVI", Retail
DDR-DIMM PC2100 512MB DDR CL2 (one, and maybe add another later)
- Minne 184-P (for DDR-PC266MHz)

The nforce has the rest I need: DD 5.1 output to my receiver and LAN onboard. I'll go nforce 2 if I buy the system in the fall (as I probably would as I'm low on money these days).

portorock
07-28-02, 12:16 PM
For your dually probs, check out this thread
http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16191
There is a driver that fixes the probs w/Creative live! and Audigy and smp.

lostdesigns
07-28-02, 02:34 PM
you talk to much dude

Demont
07-28-02, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by lostdesigns
you talk to much dude

that was kinda rude there lost.

but anyway, Gambler, the only reason i would get a dual cpu system is for SETI, its more cost efficient for farming.

fireball****aka fireball_87
07-28-02, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by lostdesigns
you talk to much dude
"you talk to much dude". is that all you have to say? if your gona go spamming, try not to say rude things. or just dont say anything at all..............

phantom punisher
07-28-02, 05:46 PM
ive come to many of the same conclusions as you. i bought a smp rig as my first computer with the though of twice the speed. as you all know thats not true in all definitions of the word in relation to computers. after understanding what smp does, i did take advantage of it. but i dont do any graphics work hardly. so i personly through that benifit(as small as it is) out the window.
all ive done is do other things while i burn cds or crunch seti. and of course ive had a few smp related problems like you have encoutered.
in the next rig i will use my money like you have sugested and get better stuff instead of two of them.
i love my computer. but 90% of that love has nothing to do with the second cpu:)

phantom punisher
07-28-02, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by lostdesigns
you talk to much dude
i want the power to ban. id be so good at it! there wouldnt be a single bad attitude kid left in here:D

FoldingAddict
07-28-02, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by phantom punisher

i want the power to ban. id be so good at it! there wouldnt be a single bad attitude kid left in here:D

lol! There wouldn't be a single person left period!;) j/k

rogerdugans
07-28-02, 08:23 PM
I can see the points you make, Gambler, and I have told many who asked me of some of those downfalls- although I do see a big difference in multi-tasking with a dual.

I am a big fan of duals though, in some applications. And one that I think is definitely better served by a single cpu machine is gaming: If someone is a hardcore gamer, a faster single is definitely better.

But I still have fewer problems with multi-tasking and burning cds while surfing and having a messenger chat with someone on a duallie than a single cpu rig.

TheDS
07-30-02, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by phantom punisher

i want the power to ban. id be so good at it! there wouldnt be a single bad attitude kid left in here:D

Hey, he wasn't exactly abusive or anything. It appears he just didn't buy Gambler's thesis. While he could have been more constructive, he didn't really do anything wrong.

Soon enough I will be finding out for myself if this bad news is true, and then I just might have a few choice words for Gambler or Lost... :D

JCLW
07-31-02, 07:46 PM
I'm very happy with my system (see sig). I had an SBLive which had problems but the Audigy worked perfectly since the day I got it. I've yet to use any uni-processor machine that multitasks as well as my dual PIII-800Es.

- JW

donny_paycheck
08-01-02, 01:09 AM
Yes. Even my 733mhz/2mb P3 Xeons put my single 1850mhz Athlon XP to shame in a lot of tasks. They aren't individually as fast by any means but when it comes to multitasking they're much more robust.

It's good for some applications, not so good for others, but in the end you can't find a machine that feels as fast overall as a dual CPU machine.

Saying "SMP - never again" in a SMP forum area isn't likely to get agreeing responses.

Colin
08-01-02, 02:05 AM
donny-paycheck pretty much summed up my thoughts on this. I preferred my dual PII 400 to my long lost 1718 MHz Athlon pelt rig monstrosity.

donny_paycheck
08-01-02, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Colin
donny-paycheck pretty much summed up my thoughts on this. I preferred my dual PII 400 to my long lost 1718 MHz Athlon pelt rig monstrosity.

I was actually wondering when you'd see this.

Since it's been a while, anybody with questions (and you too, GamblerFEXonlin) should read Colin's thread (http://forums.overclockers.ws/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79729) about a good way to see why duals rock.

From back in the early days of this SMP forum...

phantom punisher
08-03-02, 12:36 AM
its definalty a to each his own kind of thing as it should be but for me personaly i can wait till i go to bed to run seti or take a 3 minute break from the internet while i burn. it been a neat experience but this is my first and last. my bond with abit will probly hold though:)