Submerged system...

[R0CK3TM4NN]

Purely hypothetical idea here:

Would it be possible to have an entire working system submerged in a non-conductive liquid as a method for cooling? Something along the lines of motor oil? Being realistic (for a purely hypothetical idea), the parts that would be submerged would be only the solid state electronics (no HDD's, CD-ROM's, or disk drives), and the motor oil-like substance would have to be circulated somehow.

Got any ideas if/how this could work?

(Please, no "This is the stupidest thing I've ever seen" replies. Key words are "purely hypothecial idea," for the third time.)

[Dreamkiller]

I've actasully seen this somewhere before. I can't remember but he has his whole system submerged in some green liquid [ HFE? ]and all his solid state 'tronics was in a tank and a pump would keep the liquid in circulation between the tank and the cooler.

I think its very possible. I would think that a peltier/water cooler system is better and easier to set up tho.

EDIT: Go look at how nuclear reactor rods get cooled, maybe u can devise a way to install a WAY smaller version of that to install on your PC. Of course, you'd have to replace the water with HFE or something.

[rpckvv]

it has been done...guys even made a video using an extremely cold non-conductive liquid...they got it beyond -45C, but the whole thing pretty much croaked...

too bad i lost the link...

anyone?

-peter

[Dreamkiller]

o0o, check it out.

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/supergeek/story/0,24330,3380128,00.html

http://products.3m.com/usenglish/mfg_industrial/elec_materials.jhtml?powurl=SKKXCT77P5be2FCSL3BCQX geGST1T4S9TCgv5NGBVHDQ19gl

[Captain Slug]

Originally posted by R0CK3TM4NN
Purely hypothetical idea here:

Would it be possible to have an entire working system submerged in a non-conductive liquid as a method for cooling? Something along the lines of motor oil? Being realistic (for a purely hypothetical idea), the parts that would be submerged would be only the solid state electronics (no HDD's, CD-ROM's, or disk drives), and the motor oil-like substance would have to be circulated somehow.

This has been discussed in length before and most people that have tried it have had serious problems with Capacitors exploding.
So in order to actually acheive this you'd have to seal off EVERY capacitor on EVERY component of your computer.

Precision Instrument oil (and a few other liquids I can't remember) will work for submersion cooling.

We then concluded that it the hassle would outweigh most benefit gained we all agreed that making a water cooling system for an entire computer would be easier since fluid dynamics is a huge pain. You'd have to pump the liquid out of the tank and cool it with a radiator (which would require a few quiet fans), then pump it back onto the CPU HSF.

Finding usable containers was also a bit of chore.

All and all I think that this would be an overly expensive project when you really wouldn't gain alot of efficiency versus a regular water-cooling setup.

[---X---]

Flourinert! :p

I dont know how/if it would explode capacitors, but I sometime will probably try to get my hands on this stuff, I have a working prototype of a cheap duron system with the whole cooling system etc, except I dont have the liquid stuff, I hear its mighty $$$

Oh well, I can always throw on an AX-7 in the meantime...

[fireflew]

I heard somewhere that you could use mineral oil for this type of thing... but that is not exactally cheap either... oh well

[Captain Slug]

Originally posted by ---X---
Flourinert! :p

I dont know how/if it would explode capacitors, but I sometime will probably try to get my hands on this stuff, I have a working prototype of a cheap duron system with the whole cooling system etc, except I dont have the liquid stuff, I hear its mighty $$$

Oh well, I can always throw on an AX-7 in the meantime...

Flourinert is several hundred per gallon and is BEYOND reasonable cost estimates.

Mineral Oil, Precisions Instrument oil, or distilled water will work better. And the Capacitors seem to die from the resulting expanding and contracting of seepage. Silicone caulk around the edges of all the caps should prevent this from happening.

[---X---]

Yeah, but hey, you can dream can't you?

[---X---]

Wait, you said several hundred per gallon. It shouldn't take more than a gallon to fill the system anyway, I think, maybe a little more than a gallon. People buy vapochill for a hefty amount. It's not THAT unreasonable...

[Xtasy672]

i fond this a while ago and it has an in depth walkthrough on how they did itN 2 O and FLourient (http://www.octools.com/index.cgi?caller=articles/submersion/submersion.html)

[Lance Thornton]

I vaguely remember that we used mineral oil on sealed gel-cell batteries in a 1/4 inch thick aluminum case. These were used underwater in many different projects as power supplies, but there was no exposed circuits like on a motherboard. It certainly is an interesting concept.

[Emericana]

i remeber reading a article way back a few years ago about these guys that submerged their computer in some liquidy thing. they used a 486dx and overcloked it to 266mhz. It was a really cool article cause they showed how at first quake was barely playable, then they got the FPS way up by overclocking it a little more, then they overclocked it so quake 2 was playable.

wish i still had the url, if it even exists anymore

[Captain Slug]

Originally posted by ---X---
Wait, you said several hundred per gallon. It shouldn't take more than a gallon to fill the system anyway, I think, maybe a little more than a gallon. People buy vapochill for a hefty amount. It's not THAT unreasonable...

To cover the entire cubic area of an ATX motherboard with an AGP card attached (12" x 10" x 6") you'll need 30 gallons.

Last I checked Fluorinert was $350, and I can't remember if that was per gallon, or per 10 gallon container. Either way that's a huge heap of money to spend when you could just watercool everything including the RAM.

[Comrade]

I hear that submerged systems actually have major dust problems.

[Captain Slug]

Originally posted by Comrade
I hear that submerged systems actually have major dust problems.

A submerged system can be completed sealed in an enclosure with only small pass through points for ATX power extenders, Drive connections, I/O connections, and power and reset switches, AND the piping need to get the liquid circulated through the radiator.

I still think it's too much hassle...

[Comrade]

Originally posted by Captain Slug
A submerged system can be completed sealed in an enclosure with only small pass through points for ATX power extenders, Drive connections, I/O connections, and power and reset switches, AND the piping need to get the liquid circulated through the radiator.

...

Damn sarcasm doesn't work, it just doesn't WORK I say.

[Diggrr]

720 cubic inch = 3.116883 gallon [US, liquid] Onlineconversion.com

I've got a Dell 133 system here, and it's doing nothing. I have an urge to go buy some mineral oil and really see first hand about the expanding cap thing. I've seen it spread around the internet quite thickly that the capacitors on your mobo would swell and fail if submerged in mineral oil....but no pictures, means no proof to me. And there's only one person I've seen actually use mineral oil submersion, and it's working fine.

You see, most capacitors are made with mineral oil inside them. A capacitor is basically two strips of very thin aluminum coated with polyethylene plastic (or other non conducting plastic) and rolled up with mineral oil injected under vacuum. The mineral oil's job is to keep air bubbles and pockets from being in between the layers of aluminum foil, because when the cap is in use, this air pocket heats until the plastic fails, then the aluminum foils are no longer insulated....cap failure that looks like a tiny lightening strike.

So how is the mineral oil inside the cap any different from that applied on the outside?

[Captain Slug]

Originally posted by Diggrr
720 cubic inch = 3.116883 gallon [US, liquid] Onlineconversion.com

I've got a Dell 133 system here

Please do! That Dell deserves a quick death anyways. (hehe)

Even better, make a write up. The only online article I've seen about total submersion was the silentium project.

I'm just too much of a coward to try or recommend total submersion...

[R0CK3TM4NN]

Yeah, I'd like to see the fireworks (if any), Diggrr.

Cool. I'm in no way intending to do this, but I'm looking for some cooling methods that haven't even been considered yet. My dad's an analytical chemist and has access to a very large laboratory. I'll have to ask him if he has any ideas.

Hehe, he calls my system the "nuclear reactor," because he always asks, "Why are you worrying about your core temperatures all the time? You running a controled fission reaction in that box or what?"