Can my cable provider tell if I have a home network?

[ocean]

I have been using my home network for almost 3 years now with no problems. Now all of a sudden I get a letter and an email from the privider that the want another 5 bucks per month for additional IP addresses. I'm using a D-link 701 residential gateway and an anypoint phoneline network. I've been having problems all of a sudden with the internet on the client pc's.
Question is: Do you think I just need to reconfigure something or should I just fork over the dough?
My privider is ATT boadband.

Thanks for any help.:D

[AZN]

I cant comment about the client PC problem but you dont need to fork over $5 more cuzz you are not buying more IPs. You are just sharing the 1 IP u already paid for. Check out ATT website they will give u all the detail and they even show u how to use a linksys on ur own network.

AZN

[mdcomp]

I have a home network using Comcast. I do not have to pay for an extra ip and they know I have a network and don't care.

[trey_w]

i assume your running NAT...
they can't tell how many PC's are behind the router...
If they can, its because you do not have it configured right and or they are doing something illegal by going into your network

[ocean]

That's the way it it used to be here. You see, ATT took over the cable company whithin the last year and I must say they have done a splendid job of upgrading the system. My speeds went from aprox 150-350 kbs to 2mbs!
So I,m thinkin they are trying to recoup some$$$. If you go to there web site they are happy to sell you Linksys gear for home networking, but they also tell you you gotr to fork over another 5 bucks for each client computer.
I just want to make sure that it is technologically possible for them to pick-up my client pc's and cause them not to function.
I thought that they would only be able to see my gateway, not my whole network. I think there is something that I don't understand going on. :confused:

[DanFraser]

If you have one server, with the connection, and the other comps network into the server, with the server as the gateway (ie, this is good for USB ADSL modems) then they cannae see yoo!

[TC]

If you have nat setup properly then they can't tell how many computers you have. The only thing that might raise suspicion is if you had a large amount of traffic, particularly inbound traffic if you were running a server.

[drunkmonkey]

If you used a proxy server on a comp (i reccomend spoon proxy) it would be impossible to see you. Thats the only way I know you can really be sure, thats what i do, lol:D. But I have dialup:( so it only lets me surf the web while my sis is aim'ing

[jajmon]

Originally posted by TC
If you have nat setup properly then they can't tell how many computers you have. The only thing that might raise suspicion is if you had a large amount of traffic, particularly inbound traffic if you were running a server.

Ocean - if you have alot of inbound traffic as said above by TC, that could raise some suspition to your ISP. Some providors prohibit servers in their TOS. You might wan't to call them and 'politely' say you don't understand why they are asking you for the additional billing and if they could explain it. (just a suggestion)

good luck

[Spec_Ops2087]

I got the same problem only comcast called me and said that I had an illegal bla bla bla and that I had to pay 20 a month more for w/e reason...but I was like it is a router and I not giving you any mroe money...routers are legal and you ARE allowed to split your IP address....they ALWAYS try to get money out of you!:mad:

Atleast they didn't get my 20 a month!!



Spec

[trend]

yeah, they can tell evne if you have a router between you and the modem.. they can check their routers outside and see how many macs pass by.. you cna get your router to change all the internal computer's mac to just 1, but that would be a pain.. i think

[AZN]

I dont understand what all the fuss is about...

I'll say it one more time. Any cable company will charge $5 for for additional IPs. The router using NAT doesnt require additional IPs, it will share the 1 u already have. That means you are not taking up IPs. That means no extra $5 bucks. I'm i missing something? I never had ATT tell me i need to pay more for using my router. If i wanted another IP, yes $5, but sharing the 1 IP I already have no extra charge. Has any1 here been told to fork over additional $5 for client machines behind a router??? And when the the CSR told you that are u sure they understood it was behind a router and that u will not need more IPs?

AZN

[Spec_Ops2087]

AZN: I think some compaines are just parnoide about those kinds of things...and they want to find any possiable way to charge you more money then they need to....:rolleyes:

I have never been forced to pay more money for addictional IPs with my router...although they tried to get me too...I just said no I got a router and that is legal and you can't charge me more money for it...they never bothered me again ;)



Spec

[Smizack]

Originally posted by jajmon


Ocean - if you have alot of inbound traffic as said above by TC, that could raise some suspition to your ISP. Some providors prohibit servers in their TOS. You might wan't to call them and 'politely' say you don't understand why they are asking you for the additional billing and if they could explain it. (just a suggestion)

good luck

Actaully, working for a cable company, I look for a lot of outbound traffic. I.E. someone sitting on Kazaa and not d/l'ing anything. But I suppose that depends on the ISP as well.

[AZN]

Originally posted by Spec_Ops2087
AZN: I think some compaines are just parnoide about those kinds of things...and they want to find any possiable way to charge you more money then they need to....:rolleyes:

I have never been forced to pay more money for addictional IPs with my router...although they tried to get me too...I just said no I got a router and that is legal and you can't charge me more money for it...they never bothered me again ;)



Spec

NO, i think people are confusing $5 for IPs and not client PCs on a router. We all know Routers Share 1 IP, so we arnt taking up more IPs, therefore no need for $5 more. If i didnt have any other means of connecting another computer, or if i wanted another IP, then the $5 is fair.

AZN

[Ben721]

Way to stick up for yourself.

[ocean]

Thanks for the input guys. No, I'm not running a server. I merely have 3 machines in different parts of the house and it is a rare case when even two of them are accessing the internet at the same time.
As far as NAT goes, I don't have a clue. I spose it's in the proprietary software that Intel provides for their Anypoint stuff.
Now, like Smizack says, maybe they analyze the outgoing traffic.
Would'nt they see the IP address of the client machine and see that it is different than the server? Idunno.
Here is the letter they sent me.:

August 2002




Dear AT&T Broadband Internet Customer,

AT&T Broadband offers customers the ability to network multiple computers in
their home through our Multiple IP Service. As a result of recent changes made
to the AT&T Broadband Internet network, some customers may be currently
receiving additional IP addresses without subscribing to our Multiple IP
service. If you are such a customer and would like to continue receiving
additional IP addresses, you will need to subscribe to the Multiple IP Service
by August 21, 2002 in order to avoid disruption of service. The charge is $4.95
for access to an additional four (4) IP addresses.

To subscribe to the AT&T Broadband Multiple IP service, simply reply to this
e-mail with the word SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. Regardless of your decision
to subscribe to this service, your AT&T Broadband Internet Service to your
primary computer will not be affected.

Our goal is to provide you with the best high-speed cable Internet service
available, and we are confident that your choice of AT&T Broadband Internet
continues to be the best value in the market today. We know you have a choice of
service providers, and all of us at AT&T Broadband value your business.


Sincerely,

AT&T Broadband

Waddya think?

[AZN]

Originally posted by ocean
Thanks for the input guys. No, I'm not running a server. I merely have 3 machines in different parts of the house and it is a rare case when even two of them are accessing the internet at the same time.
As far as NAT goes, I don't have a clue. I spose it's in the proprietary software that Intel provides for their Anypoint stuff.
Now, like Smizack says, maybe they analyze the outgoing traffic.
Would'nt they see the IP address of the client machine and see that it is different than the server? Idunno.
Here is the letter they sent me.:

August 2002




Dear AT&T Broadband Internet Customer,

AT&T Broadband offers customers the ability to network multiple computers in
their home through our Multiple IP Service. As a result of recent changes made
to the AT&T Broadband Internet network, some customers may be currently
receiving additional IP addresses without subscribing to our Multiple IP
service. If you are such a customer and would like to continue receiving
additional IP addresses, you will need to subscribe to the Multiple IP Service
by August 21, 2002 in order to avoid disruption of service. The charge is $4.95
for access to an additional four (4) IP addresses.

To subscribe to the AT&T Broadband Multiple IP service, simply reply to this
e-mail with the word SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. Regardless of your decision
to subscribe to this service, your AT&T Broadband Internet Service to your
primary computer will not be affected.

Our goal is to provide you with the best high-speed cable Internet service
available, and we are confident that your choice of AT&T Broadband Internet
continues to be the best value in the market today. We know you have a choice of
service providers, and all of us at AT&T Broadband value your business.


Sincerely,

AT&T Broadband

Waddya think?

The router needs only 1 IP address, NOTmultiple IP addresses.
The router needs only 1 IP address, NOTmultiple IP addresses.
The router needs only 1 IP address, NOTmultiple IP addresses.
The router needs only 1 IP address, NOTmultiple IP addresses.
The router needs only 1 IP address, NOTmultiple IP addresses.
If i didnt make myself clear. The router requires only 1 IP address

I have 7 computers on my network and had it up since i first signed on to ATT about 2.5 yrs ago. I never once had any problems with ATT.

AZN

[DanFraser]

Just for anyone who couldnt figure out what AZN was saying... (LOL!)

Internet--------Router (or a PC network Server)---------other computers

Thats how the 'link' is setup.

The Router/Server has control over two ranges of IP addresses.

On the left side, it makes the whole right side appear as one. Only one IP address is needed for the router. The router is effectively one computer. The other computers are networked into the router. The router basically makes the internet an extension of the network.

Here is a basic picture... A computer is in place of the router, but it does the same job, I should have got a help document from work for this!!

http://www.admiralfraser.btinternet.co.uk/router.JPG

As you can see computers go through the router/computer. The router only needs an IP addy for itself. The other computers just have a network IP address (ie. 192.168.0.2 etc) that when they are browsing etc, the router/computer just takes the info itself, and passes the info to the correct computer asking for the info, via the local network address.

[Spec_Ops2087]

AZN and Admiral Fraser are both right....

[ocean]

AZN, I know that's the way it is SUPPOSED to work, but I was just wondering why all of a sudden I get this letter and all of a sudden I can't get on the internet on my client pc's. I was just wondering if anyone had a similiar problem. Apparently not.
I still think that they have some scheme to try to get some mo0re $$$$ out of me.
Like I said I've been using this config for 3 years now and it has worked quite well. The only thing that has changed is the ISP.
Upgrading and all that. Looks Like I am going to have to go back to square one and re-do it all . This weekend I hope.
Thanks for all the help.

I'll get back to ya's

:cool:

[DanFraser]

It is one BIG scam to get more money... just ignore it! If they hassle you again, ring their tech desk and ask to be removed from their mail/email promotion list...

[Shocker]

i have comcast, and running 3 computers using a router. they havn't called or email me. DO not pay them the extra cash.

Most ISP, says the don't support home networks, meaning they won't give you tech support......., but you are allow to have a home network.

[Comrade]

I have AT&T broadband running in MA and they actually helped us set up a router without asking for any money.

Nobody should charge more for a router because you can't use more bandwidth unless you actually have more accounts/cable modems. However, I do know that certain services that really suck (Cox?) charge more if you want to use a router. Flackers.

EDIT: However, if your "router" is really a SWITCH then all the computers behind it will get separate IP addresses. Otherwise, major scam.

[AZN]

Originally posted by ocean
AZN, I know that's the way it is SUPPOSED to work, but I was just wondering why all of a sudden I get this letter and all of a sudden I can't get on the internet on my client pc's. I was just wondering if anyone had a similiar problem. Apparently not.
I still think that they have some scheme to try to get some mo0re $$$$ out of me.
Like I said I've been using this config for 3 years now and it has worked quite well. The only thing that has changed is the ISP.
Upgrading and all that. Looks Like I am going to have to go back to square one and re-do it all . This weekend I hope.
Thanks for all the help.

I'll get back to ya's

:cool:

can u explain ur network configuration alittle better.

If u dont require more IPs, then u dont need to pay extra, bottom line. If u can run ur network with just the 1 IP then ur good to go.
Ive looked up ur model Dlink and it appears to have a DHCP server so it will share that 1 IP just fine. I dont know y u are suddenly having trouble on ur clients machines. Maybe its the configuration. Give me more detail about that and maybe i can solve ur problem.

AZN

[ocean]

Thanks for the offer AZN! But before I take up any of your time I'm going to take it all apart and put it back together. I have'nt upgraded the firmware in the gateway in a while and I see that several versions have come out since I installed it.

Here's what I got,

Surfboard 4100 cable modem
D-link 701 residential gateway
3-com ethernet card
pII 450 puter as server
Intel anypoint 10mbs pci phoneline adapter
3-client pc's w/Intel anypoint 10mbs usb adapters

So far I've checked the phone line and updated and reinstalled all related software and drivers. Still got same symptoms.
Start ie and get the "detcting proxy settings" message. Then it hangs. Or get to the "web site found message" And then it hangs. Or sometimes it connects but does'nt run "quite right".
This stuff appears to happen randomly.
The phone line is NOT shared with the telephone.

I'll get into it over the weekend

Thanks for all the help!I knew I'd get the straight dope here.:D

[Annoyingrob]

Just to add my input...... When I was on Cogeco@home (Toronto), I had some troubles one day with my cable modem not connecting properly. I called them up and said I was having problems, and gave him my account name, "One sec... Well, your cable modem seems to be connected properly, I can see 3 separate MAC addys coming through." That surprised me, they could tell that I had 3 PCs connected to the modem through the NAT. Don't be so sure the can't tell you use NAT. Even though a lot of ISPs accept, and allow you running some sort of NAT, some don't. I think that Comcast is one of those ISPs that don't like you running NAT. I may be wrong on that Comcast issue, but I'm almost certain that they have some sort of aversion to you running NAT


Just my thoughts.

[DanFraser]

To get round Annoyingrobs mention of what he discovered, (you can still use a router) just have one PC as a server, with the others going round that... A server doesnt usually leak out the extra mac addresses...