Radeon 8500 Pro or GF Ti4200 128 MB (Asus)?

[sangram]

There's a little more to this question: Affordability!

The 8500 Pro (is it a crippled 8500?) with 64 MB DDR (It's a Gigabyte card) is at a price point, say $200 (In my currency it's 10,750).

The 4200 is 50% more expensive, say $300 (In my currency, that's about 15,750).

Which makes more sense? The ATI (BBA) 8500 with 64 MB costs more than the Ti4200. In which case it's a no-brainer, the Asus wins any day. But the Gigabyte 8500 looks tempting.

I currently play a lot of racing games, always will, so most of my favs are old games (NFS:HS, Porsche 2000, Carmageddon) that run pretty well on my current set-up. I don't play UT/Quake at all but I like Deus Ex and Max Payne, both of which run fine on my setup at 10x7x32 with all eye-candy on. I have no fear of going on to UT2003 or DOOMIII but Deus Ex 2 should be nice. I'm more a racer than a shooter, I guess.

The reason for the upgrade is so I can get some more candy with GP4, which runs in semi-hobbled mode (and the full-candy mode looks gorgeous!) on my setup and GTA3, which barely runs, specially when it starts raining! I would also like to play some new FPS games in lo-res mode at least when they do show up.

Also will the ATI have problems with my board/chipset? I'm a little wary of the ATI/Via issues I've been reading about so I'm not sure.

Or should I go in for an MX440 card which is even cheaper than the Radeon, sacrifice Dx 8 capability and save a little cash? Don't think so, but if anyone has opinions I'd like to hear that side out too.

Thanks in advance for yr. help.

[PreservedSwine]

In your case, I don't think the Ti4200 is worth the extra $100- not at all. Grab the R8500, no doubt.

I am assuming both cards are only 64MB. IMO, you should try and find 128MB cards to compare, if you want to play next generation games w/out another up-grade. Rumor has it you will need at least 128MB to play DOOM3:)

EDIT- just noticed you are comparing Geforce4tI4200 128MB TO R8500 64MB. Do you know the clockspeeds of the R8500 "Pro?" Never heard of a "Pro" R8500. R9700Pro/R9000Pro yes, but not R8500.


That kinda makes things a little more difficult to judge. The extras RAM doesn't really improve performance that much, but it does help in AA environments, and I'm still not too sure what to make of the DOOM rumors. I mean, I doubt everyone will need a video card w/ 128 meg's of RAM just to play. I mean, that will cut out at least 50% of potential customers. But it a rumour that is surely spreading......Maybe someone else can spread a little light on the subject.

BTW- avaiod the Geforce4MX- not worth it (IMO):)

[sangram]

Cool but I'm not waiting for DOOM III as it's not in the ken of games I like to play, so that is at least one bit of the riddle solved. However AA is important so I dunno. I would like a lot of candy but my games will also always be one generation behind, games take some time to travel down to this place.

128 cards apart from the 4200 are out of the equation 'cause the 128 MB Radeon 8500 cost over $400 in our country !!! it's as expensive as a Ti 4600!!!

Don't know what the ATI reps are pulling in India, but I guess this is one country where a Compaq is supposed to be a good system, so well, form your own conclusions.

[PreservedSwine]

If AA is important to you- you may be dissapointed with the R8500. It uses SSAA- which gives stunning looks, but at a HUGE performance hit. The Ti4200's AA (MSAA) is playable in most games at 2xFSAA.

On the other hand (There is always a trade-off!) If you like the clear and sharp IQ that Anisotropic filtering offers- the R8500 has superior IQ ans razor sharpness, at almost no perfromance hit, while the Gi4200 isn't as sharp, and gives a large performance hit.

I'd call this a management decision:)

Personally, I prefer aniso to aa, but that's just my opinion:)

[Cisco Kid]

The 8500 in your case is the better bet , the cost is very good especially here for $86 US www.adamant.com

consider finding an 8500LE if yoiu can, good value with the extra 64 ddr

cisco kid

www.anitec.ca in canada or www.ncix.com

[sangram]

Thanks guys maybe it's the Radeon then. Cisco I live in India. IT's not even near Canada.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by sangram
Thanks guys maybe it's the Radeon then. Cisco I live in India. IT's not even near Canada.

I realize thast now I am aware of geography, I just did not pay attention to location, LOL.

Radeon 8500 is your best bet for cost/performance

Cisco KId

[funnyperson1]

if AA wasnt important to you i would have told you to save them rupees and get the 8500, but the truth is with AA and Aniso turned up the 4200 is far superior....i dunno if its worth an extra 5-6,000 rupees, i myself would be just as happy with cranking up the resolution...

do you have any idea how much bhel puri yo can get with 100$....youd be eating for months....:D

[sangram]

Originally posted by funnyperson1
do you have any idea how much bhel puri yo can get with 100$....youd be eating for months....:D

Yeah, about 1,000 bhel puris. At one a day, that's over three months :D

On a more serious note, the Logitech Force Formula wheel will cost me 6000 so I could squeeze in that along with the Radeon. Not that I will but the logic is persuasive.

I'm just worried about future compatibility. I mean I don't play UT, but I assume Deus Ex 2 will use the UT 2003 engine I assume as the current one uses Unreal engine, so I'm not sure the Radeon will work on that game really well. I also assume the 4200 will have enough juice to run it.

Maybe I'll live without AA I mean look at my current card! It lets me play games with some compromises. No major complaints, but the card is beginning to show its age, specially with GP4 and GTA3. Also I think it's gradually going bad, I'm beginning to get strange artifacts when I OC the card.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by sangram


Yeah, about 1,000 bhel puris. At one a day, that's over three months :D

On a more serious note, the Logitech Force Formula wheel will cost me 6000 so I could squeeze in that along with the Radeon. Not that I will but the logic is persuasive.

I'm just worried about future compatibility. I mean I don't play UT, but I assume Deus Ex 2 will use the UT 2003 engine I assume as the current one uses Unreal engine, so I'm not sure the Radeon will work on that game really well. I also assume the 4200 will have enough juice to run it.

Maybe I'll live without AA I mean look at my current card! It lets me play games with some compromises. No major complaints, but the card is beginning to show its age, specially with GP4 and GTA3. Also I think it's gradually going bad, I'm beginning to get strange artifacts when I OC the card.


the 8500 128 DDR version LE or regular will do future games fine. BUt yes the Ti4200 will last a bit longet and run games better, it really comes down to cost.

Here in Vancouver Canada a Ti4200 was 280-300+ tax while a 128 LE8500 that clocks to 300/300 was $194 + tax, so as you can see I went the cheaper route cause in about 9 mths I will get a 9700

cisco kid

[sangram]

That's cool. In India a 128 MB Radeon LE BBA is about $400 US equivalent and the Ti 4600 is about $500 equivalent. The Ti 4200 is relatively cheaper at just above $300.

The Gigabyte Radeon Pro is looking more and more tempting. I'm leery of buying anything on the 'black' market because of absolutely no support.

Let's see how it goes. I still haven't got a call from my vendor.

[Cheng]

Maybe that 8500 is mistaken for a 9000 pro, its 64mb as well, and cheap.

[sangram]

Nope just checked the price lists again. It's Radeon 8500 Pro 64 MB DDR, Gigabyte model AP 64-D

[dansonang]

radeon is better. 9000pro has got its prices slashed. best bang for the buck now

[sangram]

Yeah but not available in India. :(

[sangram]

hehe just found out the AP 64D is actually a Radeon 8500LE and not a Radeon 8500.

Apart from being clocked lower, is there any physical difference in the core? Can I get the same performance as a 8500 and will it OC to 300+ speeds (OK, maybe 280/300 will be good enough)?

Or is the core crippled in some way?

I'm trying to do some web research. Maybe ATI would be a good place to look. Any other?

[PreservedSwine]

not crippled- just a different BIOS, to my knowledge, and clocked alittle slower.

Most people are having no problems overclocking the Le's to retail speeds, and flash to a retail BIOS. Many, but not all, are able to go beyong that to 290-300 with no additional cooling. But with overclocking- you never know until your card gets there....
best of luck:)

[sangram]

In theory, then, it could be flashed.


...right??

[PreservedSwine]

Originally posted by sangram
In theory, then, it could be flashed.


...right??

Yep:)

[Cullam3n]

Hey hey hey, another racing freak!!!

I am like the only person around my area who loves racing game. My brother's friend commented:

-------

PC's the only person who can drive with a manual in a video game and be good at it.

---------------

PC = me btw

Heh I only have a Mx200 and all my racing games work fine for me. For some reason, 20-30 fps looks fine in a racing game but choppy on an FPS shooter. Just looked at your sig and saw yu ran a MX200 too.

Since you mentioned affordability, you can't go wrong with the Ati Radeon 8500. However, if you want to be always one generation that you said, it may be worth it to pull an overtime for a while and go for a Geforce 4. You want a card that can handle AA at a decent framerate with racing games, you cannot go wrong with the Geforce 4. If you want decent framerate with AA in Doom 3, well, you might as well stop feeding your children (if you have any) and opt for the Radeon 9700.

My personal choice would be to shell out the bhel puris for the Ti4200. I think it would be better for you in the long run.

As a side note, are you that same guy from India that was talking about underclocking his CPU because of the massive heatwave that had happened a while back?

-PC

[PreservedSwine]

Cullman- You would honesltly spen 50% more on a Ti4200 than an R8500??:confused:

The cards are quite similiar in terms of performance

In fact, with A.F, the R8500 is superior

http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/radeon9700pro(5).shtml

Of course, w/ FSAA, the Ti4200 is superior

http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/radeon9700pro(4).shtml

I look at it like this, but this is just me:)

With the R8500, you can crank up the aniso is ALL games, to it's maximim potentail, and never be without it.

In the Ti4200, you can use AA, but not in all games.

Always a trade-off:)

Of course, without AA and AF, the 2 cards perform very similair, with teh Ti4200 performing slighlty (5-10%) better than an R8500.

Do you really think that's woth 50% of the $$??:confused:

I don't, but it's not my oney this guy is spending, either

:)

PS, as faras which card will "Last longer" Each of these cadrs are in the exact same category. Niehter one will have a shelf life longer than the other:)

[Cullam3n]

OMG!!!!!

You made a Ti4200 vs the R8500 debate into like 3 sentences! Please please tell me how you did that...

-PC

[sangram]

Cullam3n:

Yep. That's me, the heatwave guy. My CPU and hard drives survived. I still have the case sides open though, and my CPU idel temps have gone down to 40-42. Load temps are still above 50 but I'll put that down to my heatsink. Recently Volcano 6s have started surfacing in the city but I think I'll pass them up and wait for something better. The heatwave is over and the monsoon is here, so some cool days for a while.

Back on topic: Yeah I guessed the 4200 would be a better bet for futture-proof gaming, the 4400 probably is also a good deal as it's only $40 - about 2000 rupees - more than the 4200 in 'TD' configuration, which is mostly bare card, without frills, but with the Asus pedigree.

Unfortunately, both these options cost money I don't yet have, and payments on my car and a foolish personal cash loan are draining away a third of my salary every month. Unfortunately, I don't get paid overtime, because I'm in the underpriviledged management class.

The bright side? I'm expecting a fat little bonus payment in May/June next year provided I work my butt off and keep my clients happy with the performance of the agency. Hammer/Serial ATA and R9700, here I come!