No Warez Public Service Announcement

[Silversinksam]

Every time I see a Warez Post I am going to Randomly Post this public service announcement 5 times throughout the Forum ;)

JUST A REMINDER DO NOT MENTION WAREZ IN THIS THREAD

***This is a public service announcement to make you aware WAREZ is not tolerated here***

[Penguin4x4]

WTF does this have to do with Sound/Video Cards?

Oh, first you get a Lite-On CD burner, then go and grab yourseld a copy of CloneCD, and then, :rolleyes:

[Cowboy X]

Unfortunately everyone's idea of warez isn't always the same . Case in point I once put up a thread on a buggy alpha of UT2003 . Someone reported it as warez or suspected warez and the thread was swiftly deleted .

Yet we have no problems posting or discussing or linking other leaked beta software , drivers , utilities etc .

So I at least think that unfortunately some ppl's views will differ on what is warez . So some warez posts will still occur .

[Default]

LOL! yeah man i got my radeon 9700 pro to 1gig by cooling it with a burnt copy of quake! Come now, this is a little bit rediculas.

[h0mersimps0n]

*NEVERMIND* I retract my statement, mods have been edgy lately...

that and I think silversinksam is the only mod that hasn't yelled at me and beaten me to a pulp around here... gotta at least keep on mod on my side :D

[Yodums]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
WTF does this have to do with Sound/Video Cards?

Oh, first you get a Lite-On CD burner, then go and grab yourseld a copy of CloneCD, and then, :rolleyes:

Try reading the first line... :rolleyes:

[h0mersimps0n]

is clone cd illegal or something? I thought most software license's allow for a copy of the software to be made for backup purposes...

[RedDeathDrinker]

This has been a public service announcement.......

Sam socks it to them.....

[DaddyB]

I agree that everyone's definition of warez is different, the first day I joined these forums I got in trouble for talking about warez. I always thought warez were cracks and script kiddie stuff...

I would reccomend having one thread about this forum's definition of warez so whenever SSS posts this public service annoucement he can include a link to that thread and say "if you not sure what warez is or why these forums prohibit their discussion please click here". yeah I know somewhere in the forum guidlines or something there is a thread that says dont discuss warez blah blah but a more solid definition of warez would probably help decrease the number of warez related posts (im sure 99% of members/users dont want to get in trouble with the mods).

BTW if dicussing the leaked version of UT2k3 (kinda irrelevant now that the official demo is out) is not permitted then people better stop posting about leaked vid card drivers ect... I dont think either of those things should be considered warez but until i see that warez definition I was talking about I dont really know... :confused:

[su root]

Originally posted by DaddyB
I would reccomend having one thread about this forum's definition of warez so whenever SSS posts this public service annoucement he can include a link to that thread and say "if you not sure what warez is or why these forums prohibit their discussion please click here". yeah I know somewhere in the forum guidlines or something there is a thread that says dont discuss warez blah blah but a more solid definition of warez would probably help decrease the number of warez related posts (im sure 99% of members/users dont want to get in trouble with the mods).

I don't think the no warez rule would allow for a forum where you put warez posts "on display".

I think that the rule is defined very clearly: "no talk of warez, cracks or hacking, or any illegal activities" So, since a leaked copy of UT2k3 IS illegal (due to it being STOLEN from the developer), it should not be talked about. It's that simple. If you tred on kinda-but-not-really warez ground, you may get caught.

And it's not the point that you got caught, it's the point that the owner of the forums (Skip), can be forced to take the site offline, and possibly sued (i'm not a law major).

[Cowboy X]

su root

I think you missed DaddyB's point . By your definition beta drivers and beta utilities would also be illegal !

[DaddyB]

Yeah that is one of my points... If a leaked version of free software (ut2k3 demo is free, the leaked version is also just a demo) is considered to be warez then leaked beta drivers or leaked beta versions of directX ect. should also be considered warez.

But Im not saying that we should put threads that talk about warez on display so people know not to talk about them, Im saying make a thread (maybe a sticky) that says

"This forum does not condone the discussion of warez and/or pirated software and any such discussions will be deleted and those participating in such discussions may be temporarily or permanently banned from the forums. Any software, MP3s, Games, programs or applications that you have obtained illegaly (not payed for) are considered to be warez. Key generators or cracks are also considered to be warez by these forums. Discussion of any peer to peer file sharing applications is also considered to be warez related, as their primary function is to share illegaly pirated software, movies and MP3s."

Then whenever SSS makes this anti warez annoucement he can say "if you are not sure what warez is please click here" and link to the thread that has all of that info... come to think of it he can just link to this thread now that I spelled it all out (although the mods/admins may wish to add or remove stuff from the list that I made to fit their exact definition). :)

[su root]

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/announcement.php?s=&forumid=66

#6 in particular, and the whole section on warez.... unfortunately, few people read the forum rules :( which is why we have all these problems..

And my definition of warez is: Software stolen from it's respected owner.

Which, unfortunately applies to leaked drivers, etc. However, in some cases, companies silently release drivers unofficially to see if it works (free beta testers). This is still illegal, as the company will usually say it was not released.

In these forums, the rules are clear. It's the degree to which the rules are upheld in question. (Not meaning to insult mods, or admins). You can't really nit-pick every post, or not allow discussions on leaked drivers, etc. Otherwise you wouldn't have much to talk about, and noone would come here. Each person has a list of things that they find unacceptable in the forums, and a list of things they find acceptable. But none of that matters if the boards get shut down.

Everyone should know what they should and should not discuss in these forums. If you don't, read the forums rules.

I'm not saying not to post about leaked drivers, for example, but just be careful when you do. If you are unsure, you can:
1 - search the forums, see if it's been discussed before.. you may even find your answers there :eek:
2 - PM a mod of the category, and ask them, they'll know
3 - don't post questionable material, or stick to less warez-prone categories, like Folding!

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by reddeathdrinker
This has been a public service announcement.......

Sam socks it to them.....

Here is why this Thread and 4 more like it are in existence
(http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121313) :rolleyes:

[Cowboy X]

I see it SSS .

su root

Again what u said mirrors what I was trying to show in my first post . Many ppl have different ideas concerning what constitutes warez . I think that DaddyB's 2'nd post is a good idea , SSS should put a link to the particular forum rule in the reminder . Also in the actual forum rules , the forum definition of warez should be seen . I don't agree with the letting things slide stance concerning leaked drivers ( not that I'm saying u said that ) , it should be either right or wrong on the forums , no in between . Thus a clear policy on what 'leaked ' beta or alpha software is allowed would be an improvement to the forums .

[su root]

I agree that warez should be more clearly defined, and that in the "you shouldn't be talking about warez" notices put up when something goes awry should contain a link to the forum rules. However, (and don't take this the wrong way), if you take all the leaked drivers out of the Video section, you don't have that much to talk about. "I just updated my drivers, but I can't tell you what I updated them to, or where you can get the update." :confused:.. That goes for everything though, like a harmless thread about cable modem o/cing. I got caught in one of those when I mentioned that he "could" uncap his cable modem, but that it was illegal (I don't condone this, read my threads about it :mad: ). Just mentioning it got the thread stripped. A clear yes and no of what to post would be nice, but common sense should play a role. Unfortunately, some people don't have common sense, and unfortunately, some people see things from different angles (if we all saw everything the same way, there wouldn't be a forum, would there?)

[Kid Payne]

su root,

I agree with you when you say that common sense should play a role.
We all know what "warez" is and what isn't. For example, discussions on how one could download a copy of a pirated sofware, and where it could be downloaded are one of the types of subjects that the forum forbids on. "Common sense should play a role."

Beta versions. Hmm, I truly never thought of a "beta" version software as being "warez" and I never will. Manufacturers often release "official beta" versions of a new software for public testing. Has anyone ever seen or heard nVidia stating that the 40.41 drivers were stolen from them? IMHO, a big no. Does anyone besides me agree that companies surf sites like this and others so they could get a feedback on their latest Detonator drivers for example?

For someone to own a piece of software without permission or authority to do so is illegal, but to say that anything "beta" is illegal is just not true. And I'll say it again, I don't consider "beta" software illegal and I never will.

[ritual]

I still don't understand why there are so many rules here. I think we are mature enough to handle things like that. At least most of us for that matter.

[Cowboy X]

It's the channels that the betas come from . As several have alluded to already in this thread many companies purposely 'leak' drivers out for informal betatesting . It saves $ , no need for support and if it messes up anything they can say they know nothing about it . Su root ........ I'm with you on the allowing beta drivers but Kid Payne in theory Nvidia could legally complain about their unreleased software EULA and all being hosted on unauthorised sites . that's indeed unlikely to ever happen but one must discern whether the software company wants or allowed that software out .

[su root]

Kid Payne:
Most betas aren't warez, beta copies are usually released by the company, however, it depends on the company. Most beta releases are to a select number of people, ie: Warcraft III. Talk about WC3 beta is fine, but talk about how your copy is pirated (as you weren't on the beta list) is not allowed. Public betas are fine to discuss. I seriously doubt nVidia will go out for heads of people using their leaked drivers. (Still, it's illegal, and technically shouldn't be talked about on here, unless you aquired the drivers from nVidia legitimately). I don't believe in that though. nVidia's probably releasing them anyway, it's just that they won't be held accountable if your video card blows up while running beta drivers.. that way they don't have to officially support them.

I do believe nVidia have teams looking around to find out how the drivers are doing, surfing boards like these.

Alpha software is usually not released, and the alpha release of UT2k3 being discussed isn't acceptable, as there are no legitimate versions released.


ritual:
The rules exist so that the boards don't get shut down, and people don't get directly insulted by eachother. If there was no need for rules, things like this (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121313) wouldn't happen.


Cowboy X:
We can only guess at what the software companies are doing, whether they are leaking them, or releasing them to test groups, or someone inside is leaking them.

I just play by ear, talk about the stuff other people are talking about, and if you are introducing new topics, assume you have a knowledgeable policeman watching everything you type... cuz who knows who's out there ...

[Pygo]

Originally posted by Silversinksam
Every time I see a Warez Post I am going to Randomly Post this public service announcement 5 times throughout the Forum ;)

JUST A REMINDER DO NOT MENTION WAREZ IN THIS THREAD

***This is a public service announcement to make you aware WAREZ is not tolerated here***

I can't get over the irony of you being so against spam and then telling everyone your going to randomly post this msg 5 times when warez is mentioned.

Instead of filling the board with so many useless posts, why not respond to the people that break the rules, directly.

[su root]

They are delt with, the bad ones lose their accounts and are banned. Problem is, nobody reads the rules, so mass-annnouncements about the rules are required.

[RoadWarrior]

I don't know how great the pressure is on a site owner/adminstrator to ban talk of illegally copied software, but since the definition of "illegal" copies of software is kinda developing into anything the publisher darn well likes. For instance, resold OEM originals, second hand originals, originals that have an expiry date in the license, originals that have a license that expires 15 days after purchase if you don't mail the registration card with all your details filled in. ... ... ... ... ... (And yes I have seen such BS in license agreements, and piracy watchdog press) then the safest and most obediant, compliant and good little bovine way forward is to obviously ban all talk of software ;)

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I'm seeing slight signs of a heavy handed approach developing here that could kinda make me think "hippocrisy!" when I see front page articles telling me to stand up for my rights, and mods reacting to every passing whim of the copyright gestapo and their self important stoolpigeons . 'Tis a fine line you tread boys between having our respect and having our distrust. So may a wise head guide your judgements here.

Unfortunately in discussions such as this I get kinda torn between realising it's a reasonable request to censor warez talk and the work of an honest man to do, and the fact that it makes my skin crawl from a digital freedoms perspective and wonder why webmasters aren't asking which jail then all the bar owners are in, who happened to have a heist planned over a beer in their bar, as a real world precedent instead of meekly saying yes Sire, of course Sire..... ........ and letting "the Man" encroach further on our freedoms.

..... Or something resembling the above that actually made sense... ...

Road Warrior

[Wommalong]

Ok, after reading all the posts i will have to say that... We are not allowed to say 'WAREZ' so i will not say anything;) ... for now anyway:D. What i will say is anything in this world can be seen as GOOD or BAD it all depends on your point of view i.e. guns are ? it will differ form person to person (All i can say is guns do not kill peolpe... I DO. ok just joking). In light of this we can say it 'It is all about how you use it' and in most cases it is not for good...right;)

[Mpegger]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


Here is why this Thread and 4 more like it are in existence
(http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121313) :rolleyes:

Runs away and hides at the monster he has unleashed unto this board...




And to think, I was asking for places to buy stuff from.:p

[UnseenMenace]

As perhaps do we all have a different idea of what is warez we also appear to have a different idea of what is right and wrong and as such I would like to put my 2 pence worth in.
Warez is something that the publisher wishes to make money out of which due to the action of a piracy does not happen and this is true of a leaked games demo even then this relates to money as the games company wishes to control the product and monitor its bugs untill deemed suitable for release which will benifit both the consumer and company with a stable product. Anyone with an unstable or slow leaked release is less likely to buy the finished game which may be rather different.
music in any format including MP3 obviously have their copyright and both the artist and producer have a right to get paid.
You can talk about 'peer to peer' software such as Napster as this is software and technology related, you can not talk about downloading the latest album from it as this is copyright theft and as such against forum rules.
ATI and Nvidia imho make their money from chipsets and graphic products, even a final set of drivers are not charged for and as such the company does not loose anything by you choosing to use unofficial drivers of any discription. However I am going to email these companys for their views on the matter of leaked drivers

Overall the problem is not how we view these things but how others view them, we at overclockers.com have recieved specific responces from certain camps regarding subjects discussed here and to make it perfectly clear we do not wish to have to defend the forum in court. Opinions only matter as far as doing what is in the best interest of forum survival.

[Pygo]

Originally posted by su root
They are delt with, the bad ones lose their accounts and are banned. Problem is, nobody reads the rules, so mass-annnouncements about the rules are required.

I don't think thats cool. Its wasting bandwidth, the post that caused SSS to do this wasn't even in this forum, nor the other ones posted to. Theres no need. This could also be seen as a Troll, since its causing people to argue about a topic your trying to stop.

[mtnbikerjerry]

In America there is freedom of speech but no endorsement or sponsorship of the "W" word. The U.S is made of corporations and big business that caters specifically to the "needs" of you and I or political fund raising efforts... the same can be said for other counntries.



What is happening... ???

LAWSUITS!!! Liability. When companies start loosing money nobody can talk about the "W" word. Not even in forums, it sucks hard core.

Everyone ridiculed China about having their "Google" taken away, and look at the rest of the world.

It is all fun and games when until someone loses an eye or a software corporation loses money.

Everyone is becoming jobless so not talking about the W word is easy understandable here in the forums. There is such a hypersensitivity to discussing the "W" word for fear of a "Lawsuit" or "Reprimand".



Weetlejuice.... Weeetlejuice.... Weetlejuice....

Eeeeeek!!!

:D

[Kid Payne]

su root and Cowboy X,

Your posts are well understood and I can agree to the points you made fully. But I read and re read all the posts over again. I think this subject took a left turn somewhere when the word "beta" came into play. I can be wrong here and I leave myself wide open here for correction, but I trully don't think SSS was concerned about us talking about "beta" software. I think that we've dissected the word "warez" until everything fit into the definition.

All the food groups are considered to be foods, but a bucket of raw grains is hardly a meal. Hmm, does that make sense? It probably doesnt make any sense at all. What I'm trying to say is, "warez" are illegal. It's in black and white. Not some gray area like "betas". People prowling the web for warez are just like common thieves. We have more class than that...we buy our own OS's.

Sorry....I'll stop drinking now...

[su root]

UnseenMenace:I am going to email these companys for their views on the matter of leaked drivers
I'd like to know what their response is, i'm really curious..

Kid Payne:
I agree that Warez is a black-and-white topic, eg: linking to, or talking about how/where you got your new downloaded MP3 album is prohibited, but talking about the album itself is fine.

The talk turned to Betas because it's a form of "shady" warez. Companies usually release betas to get bug reports and opinnions from select betatesters. The real conversation was about internal Betas where the company hadn't released it, it was leaked. Talk of that is "grey" in the black&white scheme. The only people who "should" have the drivers are members of that company. So that means that anyone talking about the perfomance is pirating the leaked betas, or is from that company , and spreading rumors. However, if the company leaked the drivers on purpose, then talk about it is fine, unless the company turns around and denies leaking them. To me, this will always be a grey area, as the company isn't officially releasing them.

As for simply talking about things, I know there is free speech around here, but there are still some things you can't say to a police officer :)

Mpegger:
Yeah, i read through that thread: some people don't understand "Where can I go and legally purchase 'this' piece of software?"