View Full Version : Techs over 156w
I have read a couple of articles that seem to imply that even a 156w tech is not enough to keep these 1.33T-birds really cool ie well below ambient temps and close to 0c.
However, it would seem that anything much more powerful than 156w is running at 24v instead of 12v.
Would working with a 24v tech create a lot of problems? How hard would it be to find a power supply that could feed one of these. I want at least a 180w but would prefer a 200w.
I have found a 172w 24v 11amp pelt here.
http://www.tedist.com/specs/index.html
If anyone knows where to find 180-200w pelts let me know...
Well most tecs run at around 15v's. Thats what my 86w tec runs at. But I know a lot of the bigger tecs are 24v's.
Are you going to be running them at 12v's or 24v's. Running them at 12v's would cut your peltier wattage in half. If you have a spare PSU you could try wiring your -12v wire as your ground instead of your normal ground. I have now idea what the results would be or if the psu would handle it. I have a hard time believing that some cheaper PSU's would!
I have a couple of cheap old 250w's I dont use I should try it once and see what happens! If I blow them I out I could care less!
Using the -12v line of your power supply for a peltier would be a really bad idea. The -12v line is only rated at about 1 amp at the most and that's usually the case with most all PC power supplies. The reason for this is because there are very few components, if any, on modern motherboards that actually use -12v and the components that do use it use only a little. So, the -12v line on PC power supplies is usually rated at 1 amp or less. This is usually the case even with large, high wattage PC power supplies. Needless to say a TEC, especially a large one like these, is going to draw a great deal of current. So, using +12v as positive and -12v as ground for a peltier on a PC power supply is going to underpower the peltier very much so and may burn out the power supply . Many PC power suppliies have a saftey feature that shuts them down when too much current is drawn. So, the power supply may not actually burn out, but instead will just immediately shutdown due to the overload. In either case the TEC will not be powered and an Unpowered TEC doesn't pump any heat and will act as an insualtor. That obviously would not be good.
As for where to get a 24v power supply to power your peltiers, all I can say is try some online retailers who sell electronic components. Here are a few places you might look. Although, I'm not sure they will actually have what your looking for or not.
www.jameco.com
www.digikey.com
www.MPJA.com
www.radioshack.com
I suspect that finding a 24v power supply with a sufficient current rating may not be that difficult if your willing to pay the price. Unfortunately that's the downside of using Peltiers. Finding a way to power them is usually the most expensive part.
This one (http://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=91&prrfnbr=3652&cgrfnbr=780&ctgys=503;528;780;) might do.
http://www.tetech.com has some nice power supplies and they will even fit inside a case to. I haven't seen pelts bigger then , not shure if there are bigger ones in the 40mm size. If a single 172 is not big enough for you how about going with a Maze2-2 block and using 2 156w pelts.
ken257 (Apr 21, 2001 05:49 a.m.):
http://www.tetech.com has some nice power supplies and they will even fit inside a case.
Yes they have a great unit. I was just there checking them out. They have a 24v 20 amp power supply. There is one draw back though... the price. $330US bucks for the unit I was looking at! Thats a lot of cash I don't know if I can justify the cost of one of those.
Thanks for the tip though I will continue to give it some thought.
I have all the fixings for a 24V 12A supply. It can fit inside you case, but it is a linear supply, not switching. This corresponds to HEAVY (appx 7Kg). You can outboard it also if you choose, since there might not be room for it and the d.d. cube in there. I can rig it to come on with your 12V fan voltage, so that when you turn on the PC, it comes on at the same time. $100.00 (U.S.) plus shipping.
Hoot
I'm using a 172 watt tec from Tetech along with one of their switching power supplies. It's cooled by a Swiftech 462a water kit. With ambient temp around 72F the CPU hits 70F under load, and drops to 30 at idle. It did not allow me to overclock the cpu any more than it was with a modified PEP66 and delta fan. 1.5GHz is just too much heat for a 172 watt tec. As an experiement, I started running chilled water through the block via a home made freon water cooler, but even with the water at 35F the cpu hit 50F under load. At that point I realized the problem wasn't really cooling the water enough, but that the tec was under powered.
Hoot (Apr 21, 2001 12:38 p.m.):
I have all the fixings for a 24V 12A supply. It can fit inside you case, but it is a linear supply, not switching. This corresponds to HEAVY (appx 7Kg). You can outboard it also if you choose, since there might not be room for it and the d.d. cube in there. I can rig it to come on with your 12V fan voltage, so that when you turn on the PC, it comes on at the same time. $100.00 (U.S.) plus shipping.
Hoot
The amps are just enough to run a 172w Pelt they require 11.4 amps. However, as mentioned here already the 172 still isn't enough we may need to go higher yet possibly to 200w which I assume will exceed 12amp.
Can this system be safely moded for higher amps and if so how much higher?
MsNath (Apr 21, 2001 07:17 p.m.):
The amps are just enough to run a 172w Pelt they require 11.4 amps. However, as mentioned here already the 172 still isn't enough we may need to go higher yet possibly to 200w which I assume will exceed 12amp.
Can this system be safely moded for higher amps and if so how much higher?
I'm not sure, but It is possible. I will see when i go to work on monday and I will get back to you. Like TC mentioned, it gets darned hard for pelts to pump enough heat with these high wattage CPUs, even 172W units. I have a 156W and it could not keep up under load either.
Hoot
You know I can't help thinking that the wattage of the pelts is usually increased by increasing the size. However, the actuall contact on the surface of the die still remains the same. So infact after a certain dimension and wattage aren't we loosing out on any possible gains? Even with a cold plate and copper shims?
contact chip eckert at twocpu@hotmail.com- he specializes in 200W+peltiers and their power supplies, as well as extream water chillers- I cant remember his website address, but I'm sure he will gladly e-mail you the link
ps- if he does, go ahead and post it for everybody
jordan (Apr 22, 2001 08:46 a.m.):
contact chip eckert at twocpu@hotmail.com- he specializes in 200W+peltiers and their power supplies, as well as extream water chillers- I cant remember his website address, but I'm sure he will gladly e-mail you the link
ps- if he does, go ahead and post it for everybody
Darn! the e-mail bounced. Are you sure thats the right address?
MsNath (Apr 21, 2001 07:17 p.m.):
Hoot (Apr 21, 2001 12:38 p.m.):
I have all the fixings for a 24V 12A supply. It can fit inside you case, but it is a linear supply, not switching. This corresponds to HEAVY (appx 7Kg). You can outboard it also if you choose, since there might not be room for it and the d.d. cube in there. I can rig it to come on with your 12V fan voltage, so that when you turn on the PC, it comes on at the same time. $100.00 (U.S.) plus shipping.
Hoot
The amps are just enough to run a 172w Pelt they require 11.4 amps. However, as mentioned here already the 172 still isn't enough we may need to go higher yet possibly to 200w which I assume will exceed 12amp.
Can this system be safely moded for higher amps and if so how much higher?
Actually, I underestimated its capability. It delivers 23.2V @ 20A. Perhaps more, but that is all our dummy load would take.
Hoot
Blueface
04-23-01, 10:34 AM
Hi, I used 156 watts pelt and power one supply 12-15 volt 350 watts. My idle temp at -7 c with 1.85 volt and 3.7 i/o. 1.2@ 1.5
As time goes on and we have more and more heat to deal with it starts to get hard to keep things in check with pelts. These new high-end AMD's when overclocked with increased voltage give of far more heat then anything we have had to deal with in the past. You can use 2 pelts but that needs a very hefty power supply and the resulting amount of heat generated is a lot to control, and with summer just around the corner....... The best way I have found is with chilled water. I use a 5 cubic foot tor loading freezer with 15 or so gal. of antifreeze/water. The highest I have seen my water temps go so far is -10C. What I like about this setup is it can get as hot as it wants to and my cooling remains the same. I don't have those temp swings from full load to idle because cold water can deal with a lot more heat then the fixed amount of a pelt. Also you can get one of these units for around $170 US a power supply for the pelts could easily cost more then that. If you are lucky try some yard sales, I got mine for free from a friend that had no use for the freezer any more. Dumb, stupid people think that these things are for keeping food in :) but what do they know!
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth
ken257 (Apr 23, 2001 11:50 a.m.):
The best way I have found is with chilled water. I use a 5 cubic foot tor loading freezer with 15 or so gal. of antifreeze/water. The highest I have seen my water temps go so far is -10C.
This sounds interesting do you have a picture? How do you get the water in and out? did you have to drill holes in the lid?? I’m very curious.
lightning
04-23-01, 01:29 PM
Yeah!! do ya hv any pic of that setup?? i alway hear ppl taking about using freezer to chiller the water but nv saw the real pic on it....if anyone had those pic, pls post it on. so everyone can get some referance!! :)
I do have a pic or 2 on my web site but not much yet. I will take a few more pics and put them up later tonight along with some other much needed updates and some bechmarks, maybe check it tomarrow.
I drilled a couple of holes through the back. You just have to be careful and go slow as to not cut any lines. A good educated guess got me in a clear spot. A Eheim 1048 does the circulating. An added benifit is silence, no fans, no delta jet :)
lightning
04-23-01, 05:48 PM
Wow!! ur freezer are damn big!! did there had any smaller one!! coz i don't had such big spce for my room to hold that bulky thing!! :)
Would your freezer benefit from using the same principles as the Evaporative Water Cooling that seems to be getting rave reviews?
The article is on overclockers.com front page.
This freezer must have the added benefit of keeping things quiet as well...
Very nice set up and your right the price is not to bad, especially if one can find a used one.
Now of course the inevitable question. Have you tried to use pelts in addition to the freezer water? Just curious if you can get that CPU even cooler. :)
I took some pics and just updated my site so it is current with what I am running now. Also you may want to check out the section on my water cooled case as it consists of all the same Swiftech stuff you just orderd, might get a few ideas from it.
As for the pelts the freezer I have will not deal with enough heat for that but it does just fine for the cpu. I am using an older AXHA cpu here and at room temp it will not even post anything over 1350 so I think 1584 is not to shaby considering what I am working with here :)
mind666
04-23-01, 08:41 PM
I have another question here which nobody seems to have mentioned:
What about clamping pressure between waterblock, pelt and coldplate?
If thats too low, then you arent using the full potential of the pelt even if you supply sufficient power.
From what I read in an article at oc.com, you need around 3-5 times more pressure there, than what you can exert on the cpu core.
Does this make any sense?
You need a bunch of clamping pressure, about 150 PSI, for optimum results. Danger Den and Swiftech make blocks with bolt on cold plates to facilitate this.
For 24 volt TECs, note that the sweet spot is about 21 volts. Any PSU you consider should be capable of adjustment to this level.
ken257 (Apr 23, 2001 07:10 p.m.):
I took some pics and just updated my site so it is current with what I am running now. Also you may want to check out the section on my water cooled case as it consists of all the same Swiftech stuff you just orderd, might get a few ideas from it.
Wow - what a great set-up. Which waterblock do you use? And did you have to insulate the CPU with foam?
Yo
The waterblock is a simple home made cross drilled 50mm square by 3/4 inch thick.
I had do do a lot of waterproofing for this system.
1-socket filled with silicone/mineral spirits mix and closed cell foam pad
2-front and back of mobo painted with silicone/mineral spirits mix
3-Cloased cell foam weatherstriping (sticky 1 side) on sides and top of waterblock
4-Cloased cell foam around socket on mobo
5-Closed cell foam on back of mobo
6-Socket pin holes filled with dielectric grease
7- Top of cpu (except for core) painted with silicone/mineral spirits mix, cpu unlocked with defroster kit. Core has Artic Silver
8-After cpu is in socket put a heavy bead of dielectric grease around the perimeter of the cpu. this makes a seal between the cpu and waterblock to keep air out. I don't like foam for this because the surface of amd's are not flat and I don't want anything offering resistance to the clamping preasure.
9- Acrilic plate with foam pad underneath to clamp down waterblock. Bolts through mobo with springs and thumbscrews.
10-Waterlines need insulation
I am working on a Socket A condensation guide an it should be on my site in about a week or so, with pics and step by step through the whole proccedure.
PharmEcis
04-23-01, 11:49 PM
Why don't you just use 2 cheap 250 watt at ps's and run them in parallel to give you 24 volts @ 10 amps? Guide on how to do it is over @ www.procooling.com. I'm sure most of you have some old extra ps's laying around, I know I do. I will be using this setup on my 172 watt pelt as soon as my new block comes in. The one I got now just has to go... ;)
Beauty of wiring the ps together is that you can add as many as you like, you could have 4 250 watt ps wired in series giving you a total of 1000 watts.. ;) or how about 4 in parallel giving you 40 amps? lol Now, if you could mix and match, which can probably be done somehow, you could have a 500 watt 20 amp PS..
now just where are you going to fit those in you case? LOL
PharmEcis
PharmEcis (Apr 23, 2001 11:49 p.m.):
Why don't you just use 2 cheap 250 watt at ps's and run them in parallel to give you 24 volts @ 10 amps?
Snip=========================================
For my taste, it's worth it to spend the bucks on a big Astron PSU with voltage meters and adjustment on the front panel. It's more versatile and easy to tune the pelts to their sweet spot. Perhaps my personal perspective is a little more R&D oriented.
lightning
04-24-01, 12:19 AM
i hate to ask this, but now i had too!! if i run two 85W or two 152W. how may volt and amp i need for my psu?? just give some approximation on it!! need some idea how big PSU i needed for this cooling system! :)
surlyjoe
04-24-01, 12:22 AM
24 volt RV battery chargers are usually 15-20 amp and work pretty well for the big TEC's , they are 100$usd or more though :(
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