Using Nitrous Oxide as coolant?

[CreePinG_DeatH_reverted]

Has anyone thought of making a cooling system like the vapochill but using Nitrous Oxide instead? At liquid it's cold stuff and it's easily obtainable. Any thoughts?

[klosters64a]

Uuh. Weyell, it will surely make you feel better about your cooling prowess.

Is that a poncho, or a Sears poncho?

[CreePinG_DeatH_reverted]

Well considering it will be a closed loop, you won't get high... and even if there was a leak, it won't kill you.

[Hoot]

klosters64a (Apr 22, 2001 10:08 p.m.):
Uuh. Weyell, it will surely make you feel better about your cooling prowess.

Is that a poncho, or a Sears poncho?

RIP Frank

Hoot

[Kryten]

CreePinG_DeatH (Apr 22, 2001 09:57 p.m.):
Has anyone thought of making a cooling system like the vapochill but using Nitrous Oxide instead? At liquid it's cold stuff and it's easily obtainable. Any thoughts?

hmmm never having used N2O I could say for definate but I was under the impression that the cooling effect took place when it changed from liquid to gas (will have to grab a few old books out)

[CreePinG_DeatH_reverted]

The cooling effect does take place when the coolant is transformed from a coolant to gas, but the gas goes right back into a compressor to become nitrous again... doesn't leak out into the room.

[Big Mike]

Why not use R134A or if you're a bit daring propane <i don't condone the idea as the explosion hazard seems a bit high, but ive been told propane is actually more effective than R12 or 134A>, i believe either one is a more efficient refrigerant than N20

[klosters64a]

As I'm ignorant of the mechanics of refrigeration, I can't offer any meaningful advice on the subject of NO2. Forced air cooling is a technology that hasn't been fully explored in aid of cooling overclocked processors. As overclockers step out of the "envelope" in search of the best possible performance(at least the more adventurous among us do) I think it's safe to say that technology as realized by the majority of manufacturers of forced air gadgetry is failing us. And rather miserably, too.

There are exceptions! Alpha and others strive to serve the interests of overclockers as best they can. Thank goodness! While the more dedicated among us don't balk at purchasing oxygen free gazillion pound copper anodes for careful cutting into HS's, I'm not equipped to follow suit.

The truth may be that we've just about reached the practical limit of what forced air cooling is capable of.
Either AMD needs to replace the T-Bird core(which I believe they're working on) or it'll be liquid cooling for everybody soon. I find it hard to picture Compaq or other Tier One OEM advertising a "PresarioCool 1.33 Thunderbird." Maybe my imagination is too limited!

And Hoot, oh yeah. Why is it that only the good that REALLY die young? There are SO many far more deserving candidates.

[Kryten]

CreePinG_DeatH (Apr 23, 2001 10:24 a.m.):
The cooling effect does take place when the coolant is transformed from a coolant to gas, but the gas goes right back into a compressor to become nitrous again... doesn't leak out into the room.

ok... my only question is then...how much heat is created by the compression cycle? more or less than you gain...

[Crash893]

Kryten (Apr 24, 2001 04:33 a.m.):
CreePinG_DeatH (Apr 23, 2001 10:24 a.m.):
The cooling effect does take place when the coolant is transformed from a coolant to gas, but the gas goes right back into a compressor to become nitrous again... doesn't leak out into the room.

ok... my only question is then...how much heat is created by the compression cycle? more or less than you gain...


more it always is more
thermodynamics

[surlyjoe]

hmm ,what about compressed air?

[outhouse]

that stuff is flammable really really flammable and since you would have to compress it remove the heat [fan] then run that liquid through your cpu your just asking for trouble if you like big boom boom go for it.

please find another liquid to work with leave this stuff for your car.

[Shadow ÒÓ]

definitely wouldn't wanna run nitrous through a common compressor. Any idea how hot a compressor can get? now cooling a new substance (not R12, R22 or the new stuff) you wouldn't have the lubrication factor of the normal coolants.

Do me a favor tho......if you decide to try it, set up a video camera about 2 blocks from your house/apt/whatever. Any idea how explosive that stuff is? Ever wonder why it's the "gas" of choice with internal combustion engines? Hell why not try hydrogen? It's not quiet as flammable.

[Kryten]

outhouse (Apr 25, 2001 01:04 a.m.):
that stuff is flammable really really flammable and since you would have to compress it remove the heat [fan] then run that liquid through your cpu your just asking for trouble if you like big boom boom go for it.

please find another liquid to work with leave this stuff for your car.

contry to popular belief N2O is not as flamable as many would believe, in fact many people missunderstand how N2O works.
when the N2O leaves the soloniod it turns from liquid to gas many people know this, what isn't so well know is how N20 makes the extra power, when the N2O turns to gas it causes a cooling effect (to put it mildly) when the fuel and air that is in the cylinder comes in contact with the gas, it shrinks due to the extreme cold thus allowing more petrol and air into the cylinder making for a bigger bang.

[dimmreaper]

Kryten (Apr 25, 2001 03:05 a.m.):
outhouse (Apr 25, 2001 01:04 a.m.):
that stuff is flammable really really flammable and since you would have to compress it remove the heat [fan] then run that liquid through your cpu your just asking for trouble if you like big boom boom go for it.

please find another liquid to work with leave this stuff for your car.

contry to popular belief N2O is not as flamable as many would believe, in fact many people missunderstand how N2O works.
when the N2O leaves the soloniod it turns from liquid to gas many people know this, what isn't so well know is how N2O makes the extra power, when the N2O turns to gas it causes a cooling effect (to put it mildly) when the fuel and air that is in the cylinder comes in contact with the gas, it shrinks due to the extreme cold thus allowing more petrol and air into the cylinder making for a bigger bang.
While some horsepower gained is attributed to the -10 degrees intake equals +1% horsepower effect, Most of the horsepower comes from the oxygen that's in N2O being combusted (that's why N2O systems require extra fuel).

Actually N2O is explosive. Back in the old days guys would heat N2O bottles up with a propane torch to increase bottle pressure. It didn't take long for that bad habit to disappear, did it? N2O is oxygen bearing, would you try running O2 through a compression cycle? I think not! Guys used to fill small O2 bottles by pluming them to a large up-side-down O2 bottle. Until they found out the O2 blowing through the valves into the empty tank can cause enough friction to ignite pure O2!

N2O is dangerous stuff!

[Kryten]

I never said it wasn't dangerous just not as highly explosive as some would think.
Yes obviously having 1 part nitrogen to 2 parts oxygen it is flamable, but the main gain is the aditional oxygen with the cooler cylinder temps but still oxygen won't burn without the extra fuel supliment, well it will but you will melt down your engine from a severe lean out engine should run roughly 15 parts air to 1 part fuel
and no aditional power would be gained (beyond 100% volumetric efficiency).
sorry to get so far off the topic but I still cant see this being a viable cooling medium.

[Shadow ÒÓ]

if you think nitrous isn't flammable, simply open your bottle near a flame. If at the same time you are willing to open a bottle of oxygen, you'd see a WORLD of difference.

I was one of the guys heating a bottle before a race. Yes it causes you to burn more fuel.......and burn more oxygen. But the bottle doesn't say "flammable" because it's an extinguisher.

Nitrous IS flammable.......however it takes advantage of oxygen to be flammable. And if you think it's not explosive, cool your rig with an open bottle. I'm sure after the first spark with your power on button you'll change your mind.

This is completely sarcastic. I really hope you'd know better than to bring an explosive material in your house, much less your computer.

[dimmreaper]

Shadow ÒÓ (Apr 25, 2001 05:16 a.m.):I really hope you'd know better than to bring an explosive material in your house, much less your computer.But it's still OK to put it in the trunk of your car, right?

[SP]

Nitrous oxide would probably not be that great as a refrigirant anyway. The chemicals that are already used in refrigiration systems are probably better.

Nitrous oxide is not flammabe. That is it doesn't burn. It is however an oxidizer, like oxygen is aslo, meaning that it oxidizes substances that are flammable and makes them burn. Regular air is made up of various gases. Air is mostly made up of nitrogen or N2 which is rather inert and is neither flammable nor an oxidizer. So, the oxygen content in air is not that great ( something like 20% if I'm not mistaken). That means most of the air an engine takes in is inert and does nothing. While it's true that the cooling effect when the nitrous oxide changes from liquid to vapor does add some benefit it's the fact that it acts as an oxidizer that makes it give such a big horsepower increase. Also when the oxidation -reduction reaction takes place there may also be some energy released from the breaking of the bonds in the N2O molecule as well.

Anyway, there would be an explosive danger with having a refrigiration system that uses N2O. As i said before N2O is a good oxidizer. Now, compressors are going to have lubricants and these lubricants are probably going to be oils. Oil is generally a hydro carbon based substance that would be flammable. So, if you have oil + N2O in a sealed compressed system you can easily see the explosive potential. Even a small amount of oil could mean an explosion. Things that burn slowly or don't even burn in an environment of regular air will burn very virgously in an environment of 100% oxygen or nitrous oxide. The slightest amount of oil or grease is explosive in such environements

[Kryten]

again I would ask was the explosion due to ignition of the N2O or from extreme cylinder pressures caused by heating and exceeding the bottles ability to cope oxygen in a sealed container that is heated will explode with enough pressure.
Inside the N2O bottle all ready has ample before adding more.

[Big Mike]

Kryten is correct, its the bottle pressure not the N2O that causes the explosion in that case, to break the oxygen free from the nitrous oxide you have to be operating at EXTREMELY high pressure AND temperature, an engine is around 1100 degrees during combustion and under huge pressures from the explosion, this is what seperates the oxygen from the nitrogen, the oxygen oxidizes the extra fuel that is added as well, nitrous oxide used in a cooling system with a compressor would not be any more dangerous than most other substances available, however id have to guess its an inferior coolant, as i said you'd be much better served to arange a regular air conditioning type vapor phase change system as doing the same job with nitrous would take nearly the same ammount of setup and produce less cooling unless you were using a super powerfull compressor <N2O bottles used in cars sit at about 900psi, as the pressure goes down so does the cooling effect and the ability to push the N2O into the engine, they still use bottle heaters and blankets but they're carefully regulated to prevent over pressurization...
If your wondering, my second hobby besides overclocking is building high performance sport compact cars :)