I have a Utopian idea...

[cmcquistion]

I have an idea to give away computer parts to people who would use them to make Folding@Home crunchers.

I have a lot of extra parts. Old stuff like 1 MB video cards and 10 Base-T network cards, old AT power supplies, crap like that. What I don't have is extra motherboards and CPU's. Not suitable ones, anyway, just Pentium 66's, 75's, and 133's. Stuff that's not worth the electricity to run because it can't fold@home.

I would be willing to give parts away to people who would promise to use them to fold proteins. I would have to be reimbursed for shipping costs, unfortunately. I can afford to give stuff away, but not lose money, while I'm doing it. I would probably just set up a Paypal account.

My idea is that I would post a list here in the forum of list of different parts available. People could PM me, tell me what they need and what they're going to use it for. I would take the parts, box them, weigh them to find out how much shipping will be, then contact the person requesting the parts and say "It's going to be $x.xx to ship that stuff." They pay my paypal account, I ship the stuff, and we're on our way to another cruncher.

Is this a little too utopian or unrealistic to think that a system like this could work? Would anyone else join me and give away parts to those in need?

Please share your opinions on this...

[ed8150]

we did have an exchange going for awhile, but it was yanked cause of potential trolling i think. there was talking of moving the thread to the classifieds but as far as i can tell that never materialized.

[belorsch]

Originally posted by ed8150
we did have an exchange going for awhile, but it was yanked cause of potential trolling i think. there was talking of moving the thread to the classifieds but as far as i can tell that never materialized.
Yup! You might want to ask the Anti-troll meister[SSS] about how you can go about this.

[skou]

What about starting a folding/seti forum, in classifieds?

steve

[cmcquistion]

SilverSinkSam doesn't think it would be a good idea. He said that it would be very troublesome to monitor and it would unfair to some folders. (Those who don't have 100 posts, yet.) It seems there have been attempts at this before, but they were ruined by trolls.

I'm still intrigued by the idea, I just need to find a better way of doing it. Keep the ideas coming, maybe we can find a way.

[skou]

I know, I just PMed him, got the same response. What about ploaf's site?

[Allan Nielsen]

I "know of another forum" where folders can give away or trade hardware in the classifieds... it can be done, but it would need a great deal of monitoring if the user database is large.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Allan Nielsen
I "know of another forum" where folders can give away or trade hardware in the classifieds... it can be done, but it would need a great deal of monitoring if the user database is large.

The -other- Classifieds at the other site is even harder to get in, the post count for admission is higher than 100 as it is here ;)


Seriously we just passed 1000+ trades without any troll situations. A few were caught before they could trade, some others were caught being less than honest. Nobody has been outright ripped off and nobody lost any money in the classifieds.

To allow a seti or Folding trading arena is easier said than done when it comes to keeping things on the level. Last I heard a couple of folding members were going to build a site for this purpose.

It also important to know, Group buys are not allowed and if you ask around I'm sure someone can tell you the issues that accompany 'group' buys.

[Allan Nielsen]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


The -other- Classifieds at the other site is even harder to get in, the post count for admission is higher than 100 as it is here ;)


True, but only 25 more. 125 posts is the minimum limit. ;)


Seriously we just passed 1000+ trades without any troll situations. A few were caught before they could trade, some others were caught being less than honest. Nobody has been outright ripped off and nobody lost any money in the classifieds.


Thats very good SSS! I guess that means the troll hunters are doing their job well. :)

[Ploaf]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


The -other- Classifieds at the other site is even harder to get in, the post count for admission is higher than 100 as it is here ;)


Seriously we just passed 1000+ trades without any troll situations. A few were caught before they could trade, some others were caught being less than honest. Nobody has been outright ripped off and nobody lost any money in the classifieds.

To allow a seti or Folding trading arena is easier said than done when it comes to keeping things on the level. Last I heard a couple of folding members were going to build a site for this purpose.

It also important to know, Group buys are not allowed and if you ask around I'm sure someone can tell you the issues that accompany 'group' buys.

No comment on the group buys. (ie whether I agree or disagree - I won't say)
As for the trading. I like the idea. There were some liabilities with the way it had been done before. There were also some situations that arose with people showing up just asking for parts because they saw it listed. I'm not against the idea and we were going to try something on the team site. There were some issues with that as well, some technical some otherwise. There is a change in the works for the team site coming and we can look into again. I am of the opinion that traders should be screened as money would be passing hands, even though it's just for shipping costs and probably small amounts. HOw's that for a nonanswer ?? ;) IOW. It would be nice but as for the team site we'll have to see if there is a relatively safe way to do it.

[skou]

Ploaf, ever thought of being a politician? That was a real good non-answer answer

How 'bout having a 100 post count here to use trading/donating at the folding site? it is an o/c team 32 site. Just an idea.

steve

[Ploaf]

Originally posted by skou
Ploaf, ever thought of being a politician? That was a real good non-answer answer

How 'bout having a 100 post count here to use trading/donating at the folding site? it is an o/c team 32 site. Just an idea.

steve

Given that scenario the forums classifieds would even work. Unfortunately, without having a link to the forums db(good idea eh ;) ) this would be almost unworkable on the team site as people would have to be admitted to a site individually. I have some ideas though. There's nothing we can do anyway until the site changes are finished.
about that politics thing. I refuse to answer on the grounds that I may incriminate myself. ;)

[cmcquistion]

How about this?

I post a sale in the Misc. section of the Classifieds called "Sale for Folding @ Home members only."

I post all the parts and ask $1 a piece, plus shipping on anything. I ask people to PM me and tell me what they want, what they'll use it for, and where they live.

I will do the background check of any buyer. I'll check their stats here in the forum, I'll check their folding@home score and see if they really do fold, or if they just started so they could get in on this. If they check out, I'll box the stuff they want, weigh it to find out shipping cost, and PM them back with a price.

I'm a private individual, so I don't have to sell to anyone. If I think someone is a troll, I just won't sell to them.

Unfortunately, this will limit the sale to those forum members with over 100 posts, but "thems the brakes."




I don't think that the stuff I have to offer will really attract trolls. I'm mostly just offering used PCI video cards, 10 Base T NIC's, AT power supplies, used fans, and that kind of stuff. Things that are not really desirable for a workstation, but perfectly suitable for a cruncher.

[muddocktor]

One other think that you could think about is to do what the people on the Icrontic folding team are doing. They are pooling their parts together, making Team boxes that are sent to people on the team that have proven to be reliable, and also have a dedicated 24/7 internet connection. People will post up what they have, and when all the parts for a folding rig are listed, a thread is started asking for volunteer hosts. After a few days, the Team Captains decide who will be the host for that particualr machine and then everyone ships their parts(at their own expense) to the host's house and he puts it together and starts it folding under an "IcronticX" username, with the 'X' being the box number of that particular folding rig. The machines become the property of the Icrontic folding team, should the host have to quit for some reason, and I imagine that the rig would then be shipped to a new host. So far this has worked out pretty good, with Icrontic in the process of getting 3 new ICx machines going right now. Also, they have one of the Team leaders as the treasurer for the ICx project, and team members have donated some funds to buy the parts that are needed to finish off folding rigs, if no one has the part needed.

The advantages of this system over just sending parts to individual users to get folding rigs running are as follows, in my opinion.

1. This minimizes or eliminates any chance of someone being trolled for parts.
2. No one person gets a direct benefit from the donated parts, but the team as a whole gets the benefit of the points the ICx box puts towards the team. Also, if the host for some reason would have to quit folding for any reason, the ICx box would be shipped to a new host, keeping it working for the team.
3. It gives the dedicated team members that can't afford to buy multiple rigs or get business or school computers folding to contribute more to the team effort.
4. It helps to build up the Team's spirit and seems to help keep members interest in folding. Icrontic has a 50% active membership, which in part is due to the ICx rigs, in my opinion.

There are disadvantages to this also, as I see it:

1. This puts a lot more load on the Team Captains, coordinating all the parts, picking the hosts for the Team rigs and keeping track of the monies donated for the cause.
2. The members who are donating have to put up the money for shipping to the host's house. This generally isn't too high if you use USPS instead of United Parcel Smashers(UPS:D).

I'm not saying that the Overclockers.com team has to do this but to me, it is a great way to get people's excess parts together for a minimum amount of money, folding for a cure and also for the team. With as many active folders on this team, I imagine that quite a few OCx rigs could be built, doing humanity and Team 32 some good, instead of sitting in a drawer somewhere.

[cmcquistion]

I think that is an incredible idea. I'm all for it. If some more people can be found and we can pool some parts together, let's do it!



EDIT... If the mods and everyone trust me, I would be willing to host a farm. I have about 40 machines folding right now. I would have more, if I could just get some certain parts. I have cases, AT power supplies, some memory, video cards, NIC's, mice, keyboards, etc. The only problem is that these are like 66 MHz and 133 MHz computers. I need motherboards and CPU's. Some of the motherboards I have are capable of running CPU's up to 200-266 MHz, so for them, I just need CPU's.

If someone else is chosen, that's cool, too. I just hate to see good hardware go to waste, when we could be using it to fold proteins.

[Cluster]

I'm working on a content management system that may get used as the team site. It's just generic for the time being, but It'll be modular enough that new peices can easily be added onto it. If it materializes, I could look into adding a feature like the trading.

The way the site will work is each member that signs up get his/her own personal page that they can customize and interact with. How this module might fit in would be an option that people could choose on wether or not they volunteer for hosting. A database would hold a listing of all the members, and those that volunteer would be checked for reliability. Another database listing would hold all the current parts, and the member that's holding them. Then the parts can be cordinated quickly with a few scripts.

This way the computer does the work, not the person, makes tracking much easier all around.

I'll definetly add it to the agenda. Very nice idea.

[Gnerma]

muddocktor, I like it! I'm up for feeding a few boxes some power. As for putting a load on the team captains, perhaps we could 'promote' a fellow folder to handle just this aspect of managing the team.

Can I say.... STICKY!

[new_novice]

I know i have about two 233 CPU going to waste not doing anything, and a motherboard that can handle 400 mhz sitting there too........I was going to throw that away but after some consideration I'm still keeping them....for something :D

[cmcquistion]

Maybe we could create a new subteam for this effort. Call it "SpareParts";)

If the Seti@Home people wanted to get involved, we could donate some parts to them, namely, any CPU's below 200 MHz and motherboards that won't support CPU's over 200 MHz.

Their hardware requirements are lower than Folding@Home, but I don't know too much about SETI.

[relic]

I've done a DC team trading depot for my team for a couple of years now.

It's a bit of work, but it functions well. I collect parts from team members (and a lot from pulls from my business friends) and ship them to people who've been on the team for long enough that I know them.

Most of the parts I've shipped have been mine, but we have several dozen systems running on team-donated parts.

If you can get it to work it's a real boost to the team's output. We've gotten well over 100 systems running for the team.

Good Luck!

[Gnerma]

Originally posted by cmcquistion
Maybe we could create a new subteam for this effort. Call it "SpareParts";)

I think each box would have to have it's own unique ID so that the team could be assured that whoever was hosting it was allowing it to produce to it's full potential & not using it for his own means.

[cmcquistion]

I think that seeing a unique subteam created out of spare parts would do a lot for morale for the cause, you know.

I guess if we do things right and hand pick the people who get the parts, we don't have to worry about honest so much.

[cmcquistion]

bump.

This somehow got lost off the forum. They have been acting weird lately.

[Lt. Max]

sorry for bein so clue but uhh whats a troll ? :)

[muddocktor]

The way that Icrontic is doing the Team boxes is to have a separate identity for each of them, ie; Icrontic1, Icrontic2, etc. They are presently talking about adding a script on the folding team website that would combine all the Team rigs into 1 total score, giving access to the total work put out by all the rigs as well as being able to look at Statsman's and see how each individual rig is running.

cmcquistion, your idea about having a subteam called "SpareParts" also has a lot of merit and more than a little humor in it too.:D

Lt. Max, basically a "troll" is someone that comes in and rips people off for parts or money or both, and then leaves for greener pastures. Thanks to SSS and Co. we don't have a troll problem on this board.

[cmcquistion]

SpareParts1, SpareParts2... I think I like it.

So, how can we get a system like this up and running? I think the Moderators here don't want to be responsible for it (understandable.)

Cluster, do you want to have this as part of your project? If so, what kind of time frame are we looking at and how can we help?

[Tinker32]

This all sounds wonderful (too bad I'm still a newbie :-/ ). Any ideas on how long it'll take to hammer out a working model (atleast a parts list)?

[Gnerma]

Tinker, I would guess that there are at least a dozen or more boxen between all of us just sitting around in spare parts. It would all depend on how well the whole thing was organized.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by belorsch

Yup! You might want to ask the Anti-troll meister[SSS] about how you can go about this.

Here's a thought, Place the shtuff in the Classifieds under the appropriate catagory. List a Price, and List another price for Folding or Seti members. The person giving the price break for Folding/Seti sets how they are to establish that the person really folds or crunches for Team #32 ;)

[cmcquistion]

I don't know. It kind of seems simpler just to have a set list of SpareParts folders. Like Moderators who would be willing to host them, or people with established, and vouched for, reputations.

Anyone's free to donate, but the Hosts have to be carefully picked.

I'm not even saying that I'm a suitable host. I mean, I've only been folding for three months and I've only been a member here for about a year. Hosts have to be people with really established reputations. The last thing we would want is for donators to feel like they got ripped off or something. Hosts must have untarnished integrity.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by cmcquistion
I don't know. It kind of seems simpler just to have a set list of SpareParts folders. Like Moderators who would be willing to host them, or people with established, and vouched for, reputations.

Anyone's free to donate, but the Hosts have to be carefully picked.

I'm not even saying that I'm a suitable host. I mean, I've only been folding for three months and I've only been a member here for about a year. Hosts have to be people with really established reputations. The last thing we would want is for donators to feel like they got ripped off or something. Hosts must have untarnished integrity.

This issue has been discussed by the staff, the idea is good, but for liability reasons we cannot do it the way you mentioned at this time.

[cmcquistion]

Oh well, I guess I'm banished to the Wanted section of the Classifieds. I just wish there was a place where we (folders) could meet to trade stuff out.

Maybe the guy who does the Team 32 website would be interested?

[Wedo]

Ok, I've been watching this thread, and the apparent "illegal" thread of my ill-fated group buy :D, and I've got to say something. I understand the liability and legal ramifications that can happen if one member gets hosed by another as the only recourse is to apply blame to the forums.

However....

There are a number of us who fold like a trailer park in a tornado and would love to get more Mhz flowing by any means available. Troll hunting can be done by how many WU's you produce. If you haven't reached 100, 250, 500 pts you can't trade. How about the amount of WU's one XP ~ 1800 can do in a month as a minimun?

If we can't do it here, I understand, but there has to be a way. This is a great idea and if CMC is willing to be the go between, we should do something to make "SpareParts" come alive.

Wedo

[belorsch]

Perhaps this idea should be moved to another medium. That way there is no liability issue for OC. Then you just have to establish criteria for valid identification and choose some overseerers:)

[cmcquistion]

Thanks Wedo. I've asked Ploaf if he'll incorporate this into our team site and I've offered to do all the leg work. I'm willing to work with anyone, I just need someone who can run a website or forum or something.

Shoot, if it comes down to it, we could even do an email list or something, although a forum atmosphere would be better.

[Wedo]

On to another medium, the mods have enough to do around here already. Shoot, just keeping track of Yodum's is a full time job.

:D

Wedo