homemade rounded cables

[outhouse]

I saw a article at hardocp that said you can cut and stack ide cables so that you have sort of a rounded cable so you can get better cooling with improved airflow, except they said the 80 wire hard drive cable may cause CrossTalk with the wires stacked my question's are will it really cause CrossTalk? and if it did can i maybe put a piece of black tape or other tape in between the stacked wires to fix the crosstalking problem? are there any opinions on this? is there another reason why I should not do this?

[Thelemac]

I don't really see how it would lead to cross talk (whatever that is) as all of the wires are now in essentially the same configuration as when you cut between the insulation so that you can stack them...the wires are still insulated, so there isn't going to be any electrical current going between them or anything like that.

[outhouse]

Thats what i thought, so i did it and i do not notice any difference except now when i play games i get some pauses sometimes but i had my card out at the same time so who knows. I did reboot and the problem went away go figure, but its still not 100% about 98% but it may be a card problem and has nothing to do with crosstalking, about crosstalking it was in the article and he was not recomending doing the 80wire said he chickened out so I thought I would run it buy everyone here and read the pro's and con's thanks all

[Slake]

I rounded my cables a week ago. As yet I haven't noticed any crosstalk. I read in a thread that someone did have success with putting tape between the layers of the 80 conductor cable. I split the 40 conuctor cables on every third wire and just folded the 80 pin cable. I used the spiral wire wrap on mine. I used Twist ties to keep the cables together as I worked., then removed the twists as I put on the cable wrap. They look great and really help airflow.

[Thelemac]

If you're getting pauses, you might check to make sure you didn't nick the actual wire by accident. If you did, it can be easily fixed by wrapping some electrical tape around it (I have at least three spots on my self rounded cables that I did that to)

[outhouse]

good point because i did take off the second connector that would go to the second hard drive and when you pull off the connector there are holes left in the wire and pieces of copper trying to poke there way through the insulation i did try and push them back in the best i could.
I wanted to do this because i do not plan on using a second hard drive maybe i went to far this time but in windows no problem sisandra no problem seti no problem games slight problem i'm sure i did not nick a wire but your point hit home :)

[Hoot]

FWIW

When you have current flowing through a wire (data), the wire produces an electromagnetic field around it. When that wire has a conductor paired up with it, that carries the return current, in the opposite direction, it also emits the same field, but in reverse. As long as they are paired together for their entire length, the two fields tend to cancel each other out. Break the physical relationship of those parallel conductors and the cancellation is lost or at least diminished.

If you have a conductor with an electromagnetic field close to another conductor (not its pair) some of that field is picked up by the other conductor and turned back into current (data) on it. That is a simplification of the term "Crosstalk". You don't want the data (current) flowing in one conductor to show up on another conductor.

That's as simple as i can make it and still have it have meaning. I've never messed with my HDD ribbon cables, so I can not honestly say whether splitting the pairs and packing them tightly in a bundle has a noticeable impact of bit error rates from "Cross talk" though. I assume they are configured like they are for a good reason though.

Hoot

[outhouse]

Thanks for the advise but now i'm stuck with a cut up and stacked cable, if i did put some black tape in between layers does anyone think that would help to keep the electromagnetic fields in check? should I ditch the modded cable and find a new one?

[UFF-DA]

I was going to go that route for my system also. The i read that the newer ata cables can be hard to cut. So i just went to a site and ordered some, 14 bucks each and they are blue, which is a big bonus.

[William]

I read a very thorough article somewhere, in which the guy tested heavily a set of rounded cables for crosstalk. He had no problems with any of his tests. It is not an ideal setup, but you evidently don't need ideal. I wouldn't round a server's SCSI cables or something where you have to have ultimate stability, but for your home computer, you are fine. Just be careful not too cut any wires if you round it.

[Ridenow]

I am getting to like Hoot more every day, I could not have said it better myself.
Electrical tape, an insulator, will not do a thing for the magnetic fields created by current. A conductor, like foil, will shield some what. If you have ever cut a sheilded cable, like a good monitor cable or some network cables, you will find a layer of foil wrapped around the wires. I honestly think it would be more trouble than it is worth.

[William]

Ridenow (May 09, 2001 10:27 a.m.):
I am getting to like Hoot more every day, I could not have said it better myself.
Electrical tape, an insulator, will not do a thing for the magnetic fields created by current. A conductor, like foil, will shield some what. If you have ever cut a sheilded cable, like a good monitor cable or some network cables, you will find a layer of foil wrapped around the wires. I honestly think it would be more trouble than it is worth.

you have to have an enclosed conductive surface to shield something from electrical and magnetic interference, it is called a faraday cage. The law is that in a closed, conductive container, the electrical and magnetic field anywhere in the container is 0 because he electrical and magnetic field lines cancel each other out. That is why you want to be in your car during a lightning storn, not because of the rubber on your tires even though a car is not a perfect farraday cage. Another example of a Farraday cage is the NSA headquarters at Ft. Mead, which is surounded by a copper mesh to prevent interference from the outside.

[AMDGuy]

I rounded my IDE 40 Pin, 80 Pin, and SCSI calbes about a month ago. Cut them about every 3rd or 4th wire and wrapped them together in some of that black wire wrap. Never have had any problems. It makes the case much cleaner in side as well as helps air flow. I dropped 1-2 oC after doing this.

[BboySkid]

hey just thought id give my two cents

i rounded both 2 40-pin cables and 2 80-pin cables yesterday, using a miniature flathead screwdriver to create the incisions every 5-6 wires ont he 40s and every 8 on the 80's

i hacked them up pretty good, bare wires about twice on each cable, just wrapped them in electrical tape and they actually work alright

[*spazzed*]

Putting it into other terms: if it makes it easier...
it;s like runnin your power line in your car, too close to the RCA's(when wiring an amp), you'll get that annoying electrical noise 100% of the time

[William]

i swear that you will be fine with rounded cables. I have seen several articles that ran extremely thorough tests on the drives, and found no difference. You are not running a lot of current through the cables, so the field is not that great.

[Sketch]

dunno260 (May 09, 2001 09:42 p.m.):
i swear that you will be fine with rounded cables. I have seen several articles that ran extremely thorough tests on the drives, and found no difference. You are not running a lot of current through the cables, so the field is not that great.


I agree 100%!!! You will not have a problem unless you cut a wire and tape it back together- or cut two wires and touch them together( which you would have to due on purpose) Otherwise you will be fine. Except you could end up like me and increase your case temp by 3C!!! I wonder why that happened????? Oh-well it looks better :) But case temp now is 30C!!!! WTF!!!
To look at the bright side now, my idle temps are the same, Average is +4C than case temp and load is only 11C above case temp! HEHE!!!

[outhouse]

just to let everyone know earlier I said when gaming I had a slight problem well I,m pretty sure it had something to do with removing my video card and reinstalling it as now my system is 100% stable and back to normal except the inside of my case looks allot better with my homemade cables and i'm sure ive gained some cooler temps in the procces so far I have not heard one person say that they have had any kind of a bad effect or loss of performance from rounding a 80 wire cable so as far as i'm concerned i'm happy that ive done it. As for how i did mine, my 40 i cut every 5 wires using a new rasor blade by only making the smallest incision and then pulling the wires apart this way you take less of a chance cutting wires I did the same for my floppy cable except I did trim it down in size and took the second connector off as explained in the hardocp article for my 80 I cut every 10 and took off the second connector as well.

[William]

sketch, could this have anything to do with the fact that summer has arrived?

[AcidBath]

Heres some more stuff on cross talk i don't know if some one answered this already im in a rush for time right now.

When you get cross talk as someone pointed out earlyier it picks up the electormagentic field and could cause it. I noticed this the other day when i was messing w/my satilite modem and got shocked to hell froma 110 volt field froma power cable running parrelle with the house(no time to spell right) the only type of tape you could get would be one that could stop electromagnetic fields, i never heard as such before but if u find some send me a post i need it for a new review im doing

[ken257]

I don't cut my cables. I tri-fold them and then fold in half again. A little tape in a few spots finishes the job nicely.

[mujgy]

i have a crapy compaq 380 @ 450 and the thing came factory with cut and folded cables and ive never had problems so i dont think it matters

[Colin]

I am not a HAM like Hoot, but I understand and respect what he said. If this was a HiFi, where the superior computer between your ears can hear the difference, I would not round my cables. Same reasoning goes for a transmisson line to an antenna. FWIW, I used to be in the HiFi business and manufactured esoteric audio cables.

That said, I have not experienced any trouble with rounded cables in my computers and I transfer large amounts of photographic files for my business on a daily basis. If you want to round the 80 conductor cables, fold them into a W and secure the W with zip ties. No need to split the cables. Ribbon cables are configured that way because they are cheap and convenient. The lenght of the cables, the voltage and current carried, do not seem to require that they remain as a ribbon or pseudo ladder line.

[Sketch]

dunno260 (May 10, 2001 05:42 p.m.):
sketch, could this have anything to do with the fact that summer has arrived?

I don't think so. replacing cables took about 5min, I don't think my room temp climbed that much in 5min but I could be wrong.

[batboy]

I rounded my 40 pin cable going to my CD=ROM and CD burner months ago. Working just fine still. With my 80 wire ATA100 flat cable, I just folded twice and used some black plastic electrical tape to round it. I didn't cut and strip each wire out, then bundled, and tape it like I did to the 40 pin data cable. Seems to work great. Really allows the case fans to circulate the air better.

[William]

i would not round an 80 pin cable on my own because it is much harder. With anything else, you will be fine like I have said. As colin said, the current is so little that you have barely any magnetic field. PLUS, everything is in your computer case, with magentic fields all over the place, so you are not going to make things worse. I wouldn't have a problem with buying some rounded cables like those on the net.

[sifu quoc]

i totally shredded my floppy cable and my 40 ide to the cd drive.... no problems at all.... for about 6-7 months now.... i did round the 80 ide but i messed up... i started pulling and all sorts of wires started exposing... so i bought a new ribbon....

i heard somewhere that if you were to round the 80 pin, the most you should shred it is every 2 wires.... 1 is for return something, and the other carries the data.... when i have time, im going to shred those too.....

[Steven J Gore]

As someone has already said, you do NOT need to cut your cables.
I folded mine into a sort of "M" shape and binded insulation tape around them.
The cable then "fans" out at either end to join with the connector.
They look just as good as the bought version, and also work just as well!
No problems whatsoever running my IBM 75GXP at ATA100.

[outhouse]

Steven J Gore (May 16, 2001 01:20 p.m.):
As someone has already said, you do NOT need to cut your cables.
I folded mine into a sort of "M" shape and binded insulation tape around them.
The cable then "fans" out at either end to join with the connector.
They look just as good as the bought version, and also work just as well!
No problems whatsoever running my IBM 75GXP at ATA100.

I was very carefull doing my 80 i'm glad i did though because it matches my other cables also I did take my second connector off to make the cable shorter as it was too long to begin with I think for the less adventurous folding is the best way but were talking apples and oranges here both ways work and give the same results a cooler case :) I never did cut any cables at all only made a small incision to get it started I'm sure that my cut or pulled apart and stacked cables are smaller then the folding method but again i'm sure there is no temp difference to be gained doing it one way or another I just like mine as small as i could get them. All in all I have not heard one bad thing about home made rounded cables which to me means if your trying to get every ounce of cooling performance out of your PC so that you may be able to get the most out of your proccesor then homemade rounded cables is the way to go :)

[Pitspawn]

Both my 2 systems (Now only 1, my 1.1Ghz blew up) have rounded cables inside them. Of the two I have rounded both IDE33 cables and even IDE66.

IDE33 is absolutely easy to cut, while IDE66 needs real precision and patience (Should really buy rounded IDE66). To round IDE33/66 cables take a sharp knife or cutter with a good handle. Cut a small hole about an inch from each port ending and pull the wires apart until you reach about an inch from the other port ending. Once this is complete, tighten the cables and pinch the wires together at one end and tie up with duct tape. Repeat this until end of IDE33/66 is complete. If you complete this w/o damaging the wires then you have a fine rounded cable. If a wire is severed, chuck the cable and buy a new one. If it is just exposed, seal it in with non-conductive taping.

A good piece of advice is to have another person help with you with this, as it is a pain to tie up at the end while keeping the job need. Also, you should get a good colour duct tape, masking tape or selotape looks butt ugly!

NEVER try to round IDE66 cables until you are very confident at rounding IDE33 cables. And for god sake, don't even bother with IDE100 and SCSI 2 & 3 cables (Just buy them rounded, they come with a warrenty then)!

[Shadow ÒÓ]

I'll add to the mix. I rounded my cables about 3 months ago and have been running fine every since. 2 DMA 33 cables run my DVD, CD Rom and Burner..........3 ATA 100 cables run 5 hard drives.

The 33 cables were spliced every wire.......(someone mentioned, and it's the same place I got my idea from, an old Compaq that came with the cables already spliced) the 100 cables are every 4. 80 conductor wires are 40 data wires and 40 ground wires. The ground wires help stop noise so I figured I'd keep em together. Wire loom or electrical tape holds em all together. Case temps dropped a bit and for free it was well worth it.

You can buy ribbon cable by the foot or by the roll. You can also buy the tool to crimp on the ends, but you can also do it manually if you are patient. I'd prefer the tool for reliability tho. Nice thing about this part is you can "custom fit" your cables to go exactly the route you choose inside your case.

[outhouse]

THE TRUTH COMES OUT

Well i reformatted my hard drive and reinstalled windows [me] and noticed when I play my favorite game that the sound only while online and then only 50% of the time would be distorted and there was a echo well I changed my 80 wire hard drive cable that i cut and rounded and now no problems what i did wrong was to take off the second hard drive connector leaving exsposed wires I did try and tape them off but it was no good and did not help As the senior and non senior members pointed out [the ones who folded theres] The best way to do this is to fold your 80 wire hard drive cable even though my problem was the removal of the second connector after having these problems I now stand corrected in thinking cutting them or pulling them apart is the best way or a good way as now I do not want to take any chances so now I'll fold my new one.

[SleepyKat]

just a half cent input... you know that if you twist the wiring across each other, you decrease you chance of crosstalk. If you leave the wires parallel to each other you increase you chance of crosstalk...... I always thought that you stayed in the car when it rains and thunders is so that you do get wet :b that and that electricity travel along the surface and not thru

[sifu quoc]

i shreded my ata100 wires, every 2 wires.... i left teh second connector on though, and only shredded it half way... from the mobo the the middle connector

it works ok so far.... no problems yet.... i used both connectors for 2 harddrives

[Captain Slug]

I took everyones advice on crosstalk when I was building my system. It worked without fail on my IDE33 CD-ROM drives and my floppy but it totally ditched the performance on my Ultra DMA66 Hard Drive. I got HUNDREDS of lost clusters when installing windows with home made rounded cables.
I henceforth don't recommend rounding them yoursellf. If you want the cables out of the way fold them flush to the motherboard or just use dryer tube to vent air around them.

[Timmæy]

just thought i would add a late comment.
I rounded all of my cables,two 40's,two 80's and the cable that connects my live drive, shredded them every wire( was really bored) & havent noticed any problems. BUT, I did pinch off the cables just before the connectors and twisted the cable round and round and round, then just held one end in a desk drawer and started taping till i reached to other.Works great so far.

Tim

[bdf24]

I also folded my cables without cutting them. I'm just a bit paranoind about cutting. The only cable I have cutt was my floppy. I cutt it off at the second connecter. Although like a dumb a@#, I cutt the wrong end off (the side with the twis in the wire). I had to take the one end off and crimp the other one back on. But it works fine.

[Squid]

Rounded my floppy cable last night and did the same thing, with the end with the twist in it, derrrrrrr
But finally realised and fixed it up.
Am still undecided weather to buy a rounded ATA100 cable or have a crack at it myself..............

[William]

Squid (May 27, 2001 08:41 p.m.):
Rounded my floppy cable last night and did the same thing, with the end with the twist in it, derrrrrrr
But finally realised and fixed it up.
Am still undecided weather to buy a rounded ATA100 cable or have a crack at it myself..............

I would recommend buying one, due the nature of the cable. You could just fold it too.

[sifu quoc]

if youre gonna buy one anyways... might as well try to round it yourself... cuz if it doesnt work, then you have the one coming....

[AKDUDE]

Im running rounded cables I made on three computers. No problems yet.
I also cut the second connectors on the floppys. Sure does make a case alot neater.
AKDUDE

[Shadow ÒÓ]

I posted a bit ago about rounding my cables.....I actually cut the dma 33 cables one by one.......made a great improvement on my case temps.......

then came ATA 100 cables.....so I cut em up too. Bout every 4 wires........

Cutting 40 wire cables, you kinda have to cut em all the way.......cutting 80 wire cables, you can put a cut in them, but rip em the rest of the way. I've yet to get a bad rip. I now run RAID with ripped ribbons, and have yet to have a problem.

I also suggested cutting off the floppy cable above the first connection and 'swapping floppy drives' a long time ago.....I've been running with these setups for a very long time and have yet to have a problem.

So.........cut em up....if you cut to bare wire by accident.....insulate it with electrical tape to keep it from making contact with any other bare wires. If there are no other bare wires, don't bother. Tape isn't going to stop "cross talk" but neither is rounding going to cause it. As long as your wires are not touching anything........you're probably not going to have any problems.

I actually took the time this weekend to buy some loom to make the case look nice........power wires and all.......not any cooler but very professional looking since I did every wire in the case, right down to the CD Audio cables for my sound card.

[outhouse]

bump

[GERRY136]

i folded mine and wrapped with elec tape here and there...more room to fiddle and better airflow for sure but very unattractive lol told my girlfriend i was to gucci to have to look at that crap so im ordering the blue rounded ones hehe

she will be eatin at white castle next friday night