View Full Version : Orb bashers plz read
JaY_III
06-02-01, 03:57 PM
I have an orb, it isnt the greatest i know...
It is a god heatsink and was a great heatsink when it first came out, it has just aged (still use a pentium 2?) NO, well that is what ORBS were made for, Pentium 2 generation. They have been moded to be used on current systems, but are still made originally for the P2 generation.
look at the overclockers that have used the ORB, so many have and with great success. And that is a fact. But once you get near 60 watts of heat, the orb just cant keep up. But then again when the best CPU's were pentium 2's (686) 40 watts of heat was the max you would ever see, and good luck getting a chip that fast to radiate 40 watts
ORB eats 40 watts
So what i am saying is, it is your own damb fault for using a heatsink made for a 686 on a 786 (p3, alone exspecaly as it is a toster oven) that puts out more heat than the heatsink was made for.
So who has a FOP right now. Tell me that you will use it on the next generation CPU's coming out. (64 bit as 786 is all we will see)
Even right now i dont think they are the greatest heatsinks, they use deltas, way to load, bleading ears suck, but the best we got right now (well almost as they 2 are aging and new heatsink mop the floor with the fop's)
So stop bashing old stuff, i really dont get the point.
Hey 486's suck
Maybe this might be better in "Gripes and Moans"?
JaY_III
06-02-01, 04:22 PM
It may be better thier, but, this is were all the ORB bashers hang out.
1 new thread a week min is started just bashing the ORBS
It's Orb Bashing Time!
The Orb's do look cool but thats about all they are good for. I don't like the clip either. As for it being old I have an original Alpha Pal 6035 and it is at least as old as the Orb prob older and it still gives great preformance. If you buy a quality product in the first place it'll survive the test of time.
As for present coolers being no good tomarrow. I think cpu's have reached a peak in heat production. I mean really if the next generation was to be even hotter machines would be to loud for the average person who doesn't mess with hardware and just buys a "factory machine" because of the fans that would be needed to keep it cool. So todays coolers should age well.
The original orbs were probably great in their time, but someone discovered the look and thought it was cool. Suddenly, everybody and their uncle was making some sort of orb. They are inefficient for today's CPUs and nothing can change that fact. The clips are dangerous, and nothing can change that, except a new clip design. Any other cooler that becomes obsolete or is inefficient deserves to get bashed, too. I don't really see much point in trying to defend what is now a piece of crap.
William
06-02-01, 04:56 PM
yeah, telling me how good they were for PIIs is pointless. Sure they were, but my computers that I overclock are not PIIs, but rather newer celerons and durons. So why can't I bash something that is not effective anymore. The orb never was an efficient solution, it has too little surface area for that. Its like telling me how I shouldn't be bashing the crap out of an old car, sure it was good in its day, but by now, its crap.
Some HSF's age well some don't, and the Orb definately don't. If we are talking old cars here the Orb would have been an Edsel.
P.S. Posting about the Orb in this forum is like wearing a red shirt , walking up to a bull and flicking his nads ;D
UnseenMenace
06-03-01, 12:31 PM
Considering that this Forum is mainly used for advice, the Orb bashing did serve some purpose when I first came into overclocking as it stopped me from buying what is by your own admittence a cooler unsuitable for todays CPU's.. this statement however vaild is not relected by the company producing them as on the packaging I do not recall seeing "not suitable for current CPU's" or anything similar..
The reason I believe that there is Orb bashing has nothing to do with its past history but where it stands today, while the company producing them shows little compassion towards users by producing in effective coolers and mounting devices that can damage the CPU.
There are many users who have lost CPU's to the OPB and without need, due to what is a poor design. How many of these CPU's have been replaced by the company?.
Let the Orb bashing commence
outhouse
06-03-01, 01:05 PM
TO ME COOLING IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF OVERCLOCKING
This forum is a place where people come looking for advise from people that know whats going on or who have a little exsperience in this field, when some kid or anyone for that matter ask's hey i'm thinking about using an orb for my overclocked system what do you want me to do lie to him! no i wont do it! i will continue to tell the truth and try and point them in the rite dirrection, honestly the orb without lapping is no better then a original HSF and i would not recommend that either, even if your on a budget theres still no reason to use this HSF as you can get quality ones for just a few dollars more. When i bought this PC that i'm using in my sig I did not know FSB from CV and that was just 6 months ago but even before overclocking i still wanted a cool PC i went to fry's and i had an Gorb in my hand and i was getting ready to buy it and a salesman walked by and saw me with it and said hey you dont want that there garbage and he pointed me to a coolermaster which in its self is not the best but its the best they had. I'm so happy that the salesman stopped me now that i know what i do, i'm thankful to him as people in this forum are when they find out that there bad for AMD's and highly overclocked Intel products. I understand where your coming from i'm using a coolermaster which is at the bottom of th HSF food chain but it's doing a good job for me and ive seen others using it with just satisfactory results. Even though i'm getting good results i would still not recommend this cooler as i know it has allot to be desired but the orb's are even worse and i will continue to let fellow overclockers know the truth about a bad product when i see one and face it the orb family is a bad product.
First of all, the ORB was NOT designed for the PII. The PII was encased in a cartrige. The ORB cannot be mounted on a cartridge cpu, so that explaination goes out the window. That said, it had to be designed for socket 370. Given that even when it came out, it wasn't even close to top of the line, how could anyone expect it to stand up to the test of time? If you take a cooler like the thermoengine, and put it in a NON overclocked system, you could use it on cpu's for the next couple years(assuming cpu's keep putting out more and more heat) and not have any troubles. The only reason why I could see someone buying an ORB cooler is because it looks cool(in their opinion, not mine), but if you're buying heatsinks because they look cool...wtf are you buying heatsinks for? Just buy a retail cpu and use the stock heatsink, it'll probably perform better anyway.
Firstly to re-iterate what has been said above;
1. Thermal Take PROMOTE the use of the Orb for socket A procs upto 1.5GHz!
2. While it may control the max temps in performance tests its real problem lies in the fact that it allows procs to heat too rapidly and cool to quickly which in the long term is going to lead to core cracking.
I have used one (and lost a Duron 800 to its stupid clip) and tested one extensively against a FOP and it is a BAD HSF.
William
06-03-01, 03:30 PM
[quote]Spewn (Jun 03, 2001 03:20 p.m.):
First of all, the ORB was NOT designed for the PII. quote]
i have seen sloted orbs for sale.
The Orb was originally designed for slotket mounted socket 370 chips.
dunno260 (Jun 03, 2001 03:30 p.m.):
[quote]Spewn (Jun 03, 2001 03:20 p.m.):
First of all, the ORB was NOT designed for the PII. quote]
i have seen sloted orbs for sale.
The point was that if you're using an orb on a socket cpu, it's NOT the same orb that was designed for the slot cpu. If all they did was hack it up so it would fit on a socket cpu, all the more reason to bash thermaltake :P
it was made for a socket 370, a design they copied(poorly) from elsewhere, it was an OK replacement on the first celeron. yes we here know they arent made for p3's and athlons etc etc, and dont perform worth jack on them, but why is it thermaltake keeps claiming they are and sellinb them? when i see a heatsink labeled as socket a compatible, i expect to see the performance that would be reasonable for a socket a cpu. or fc-pga for that matter.personally i think thermaltake is basically taking ppl, on the fact that the only thing their heatsinks are worth is the look, which isnt even cool anymore since everyone and their dog has one
zoopa_man
06-04-01, 02:23 PM
I just got to bash the orb. This is my chance to vent some frustration. In order for me to get a warranty on my processor I had to buy the Company RECOMMENDED golden orb to go with my socket 370 PIII. First let me say it's broken, second let me say bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash.
I want to know who's great idea it was to have you twist on a heatsink. Like that's going to do wonders for the top of you cpu die. How many gorb users don't have the blue stuff on top there cpu any more. It's a poor design and I'm sorry someone RECOMMENDED it to me. BASH BASH BASH it's dremel tool food.
cpu temp 65 C i did get it whne they came out was supose to be all good butn now its good for baking eggs on it plus im geting new hsf next week and from looks of it ill need to hook up some robes to take this **** of my mobo cauze its imposible to do it good they have webpage to explain how and its still not safe.
JaY_III
06-04-01, 09:11 PM
WTF temps over 65C do you people even use thermal paste? And if you kill A P3 with an ORB, make that any CPU except for a duron or t-bird, it is your own dumb fault I have put my orb on my copermine-128 many times, not a single problem ever....
My temps... i CAN'T get them over 40C running a C2 633 1.65v @ 1GHz(9.5x106) 1.9v, what is up with that? (did a backside mod in my case lowered temps 3-5C, current case temp is 22.5(says my digital thermometer) , that is what i am getting with my ORB, sucking up 38.7 watts of heat.
I wouldn't recommend a GORB to anyone myself, they suck for new CPU's. I even said they suck in my 1st post. And the only reason they keep making them is because people still buy them. NOT ONE OF YOU WOULDN'T EITHER, look at it this way, people are willing to buy old products from you, you already have the stuff to do it, so it doesn't cost you anything extra, and you keep making lots of money this way....
So if people keep buying the ORB they will keep making them. That is why they still sell them. So now all we have left to do is, stop bashing them, and let these poor outdated heatsinks goto rest.
JaY_III
06-04-01, 11:40 PM
Oh, and for you that kill your durons and t-bird with orbs.. yes it is your own dumb fault
http://www1.amd.com/products/duron/thermals
http://www1.amd.com/products/athlon/thermals
now scroll down to Thermaltake , now you will notice all the coolers that Thermaltake makes that AMD says are safe to use on thier chips, see an ORB? NO!
So once again, why did you put the orb on that CPU to start with?
whether amd or inetl recceomends them or not does not chaneg the what thermaltake markets them as. and as far as a gorb vs a real heatsink... my temps of my p3 700@933@1.9v with as were around 45 degrees, at full load, 40 or so at idle. i got a REAL heatsink(alpha pep66) and i was able to get up to 1001@1.85v and have idle temps as low as 28 degrees and full load temps of around 35-37 degrees. there is no way you can tell me that thermaltake should be able to get away with selling those things. what's even WORSE is the 7-8 dolalr orb knockoff i see in stores that have shown to perform even WORSE that are specifically marketed as thunderbird and duron heatsinks. not every nd user is sophisticated enough to go hunt down an official recceomendation list by a manufacturer.
ppl can bash ms for windows, so why cant i bash thermaltake for making an inferior product and marketing it is something it clearly wasnt meant for?
outhouse
06-05-01, 12:57 AM
Jay
if you did a backside mod to your case are you blowing cool air on the backside of your CPU? if that was your mod i'm not sure, well your not getting 3C to 5C cooler temps they did a study and they found that maybe your getting 1C if your lucky what you are doing more then anything is cooling your thermister under your CPU and by doing this your getting false readings, if this is not your case mod well its food for thought, i tried this and ended up taking off the big fan and i installed a smaller fan so i could get my case cover back on [except with a screen covering the hole with a little fan attached to it] now my temps are the same as before so i know what my temps actualy are and i'm getting enough cooling so that there is no warm spot on the MB tray.
MikeTimbers
06-05-01, 06:16 AM
I have a P3-750E running at 1GHZ at 2.1v. That's approximately 40W of heat. A lapped GORB kept it around 38C fully loaded. I have replaced it with a PEP66 with the Sunon 60mm and it keeps it around 36C. SO the PEP66 cost three times as much and made precious little difference.
I have removed and re-fitted my Gorb many times and have never chipped/crushed/scratched anything.
The fan is relatively quiet.
The Gorb is cheap.
It is indubitably better than an Intel stock HSF and better than many of the Coolermaster range which also advertise their suitablility for high-speed cpus.
So, it's better than stock, it's cheap, it's quiet. Put it on an Intel flip-chip and it will perform reasonably well.
Thermaltake specifically state it is for FC-PGA. They say it will support up to 1.2GHZ which is certainly will. They don't make any comparisons, merely that it will support them. They will if "support" means keeping them within Intel's specified maximums.
Will it support it as well as anything else? Probably as well as anything else that costs $15.
JaY_III
06-05-01, 08:06 AM
outhouse (Jun 05, 2001 12:57 a.m.):
Jay
if you did a backside mod to your case are you blowing cool air on the backside of your CPU? if that was your mod i'm not sure, well your not getting 3C to 5C cooler temps they did a study and they found that maybe your getting 1C if your lucky what you are doing more then anything is cooling your thermister under your CPU and by doing this your getting false readings, if this is not your case mod well its food for thought, i tried this and ended up taking off the big fan and i installed a smaller fan so i could get my case cover back on [except with a screen covering the hole with a little fan attached to it] now my temps are the same as before so i know what my temps actualy are and i'm getting enough cooling so that there is no warm spot on the MB tray.
No i am not cooling the thermistor under the CPU, 2 reasons 1 it diode is on the core of the cpu Copermine-128 C2, it is not an AMD chip. 2 i have a Digital Thermometer that i use to take all computer temps... as anyone that uses the diode under the cpu anyways is off by upto +/-10C.
3 i found sucking the air away worked far better as it removed all the hot air that came out of the Gorb...
My temps i have are correct. (although i should have said i had that mod)
JaY_III
06-05-01, 08:09 AM
MikeTimbers (Jun 05, 2001 06:16 a.m.):
I have a P3-750E running at 1GHZ at 2.1v. That's approximately 40W of heat. A lapped GORB kept it around 38C fully loaded. I have replaced it with a PEP66 with the Sunon 60mm and it keeps it around 36C. SO the PEP66 cost three times as much and made precious little difference.
I have removed and re-fitted my Gorb many times and have never chipped/crushed/scratched anything.
The fan is relatively quiet.
The Gorb is cheap.
It is indubitably better than an Intel stock HSF and better than many of the Coolermaster range which also advertise their suitablility for high-speed cpus.
So, it's better than stock, it's cheap, it's quiet. Put it on an Intel flip-chip and it will perform reasonably well.
Thermaltake specifically state it is for FC-PGA. They say it will support up to 1.2GHZ which is certainly will. They don't make any comparisons, merely that it will support them. They will if "support" means keeping them within Intel's specified maximums.
Will it support it as well as anything else? Probably as well as anything else that costs $15.
Thank You you said it perfectly
jay (Jun 04, 2001 11:40 p.m.):
Oh, and for you that kill your durons and t-bird with orbs.. yes it is your own dumb fault
http://www1.amd.com/products/duron/thermals
http://www1.amd.com/products/athlon/thermals
now scroll down to Thermaltake , now you will notice all the coolers that Thermaltake makes that AMD says are safe to use on thier chips, see an ORB? NO!
So once again, why did you put the orb on that CPU to start with?
Does this mean that my Alpha PAL6035 shouldn't be used on my Athlon?
Breadfan
06-05-01, 11:33 AM
I'm glad we have orb bashers. If orbs are only good for PII's, then I don't see a point in defending them...the reason people bash orbs is to STOP people and newbies from buying orbs for their higher end processors!! Orbs do look cool, and with marketing hype put behind that, the sure do look like an inviting buy!
As for orbs being just for PII's, i don't see how that explains orbs for socketed processors. And while it may be the installers fault for cracking a core putting on an orb, don't you think that its odd that more orb users seem to crack their cores than other hsf users? Perhaps thermaltake should make the clip better so its not as potentially damaging.
I just think that our orb bashers are keeping people from putting mediocre orbs on newer CPU's. you said it yourself -- theyre made for PII's, not newer stuff.
Mike
oc jason
06-06-01, 01:01 PM
What he saying is not that Orbs rule cause they dont-hell i have a slot GORB on my tbird. All he is saying is that they are great for what the were designed to be used on. NO MORE- of course it isint crap to a p3 or a tbird/duron but it isint supposed to, So all who complain about its crappy effects-its your fault. Would you put go kart tires on you sports car-NO-becuase it wasnt made for it-but they do rule on gokarts!! And if you did than its no ones fault but yours.- dont complain bout the crappy steering
The point is that makers of orbs are marketing them "for cpu's up to 1.5ghz", crap like that. If some car manufacturer makes go-kart tires, and advertises them as a replacement for regular tires on a sports car, yes, it IS your own dumb fault for buying them and putting them on, but the rest of us can say that the tires are no good, since they were "designed" for sports cars, but don't do the job, right? If thermaltake says the ORB coolers are good for high end cpu's, but they aren't, then why shouldn't we point that out?
this wouldn't be to get at me would it?
http://forums.overclockers.ws/forums/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=5&TID=15166
UnseenMenace
06-07-01, 11:36 AM
I dont think its to get at anyone Conrad.. there are just some debates that people cant agree on.. Obviously the people who have had CPU's damaged by the ORB clip, dislike them with passion.. same as there are ORB fans.
liek i said early my orb gives my cpu 64C in fullload 62c idle mobo temp 31 so it is my ORB that not cooling **** i dont have thermal paste on mayeb that would bring temp down by 3-4 C duno im ordering my stuf next monday new fan and paste and my system is only a7v with duron 700 128 ram.
most deaf
06-07-01, 03:37 PM
only orb i have is a blue orb and that is pants, lets face it the design of orbs is not good, a solid peice of metal over the hottest bit with no fins on it?
MikeTimbers
06-07-01, 04:52 PM
rush (Jun 07, 2001 11:40 a.m.):
liek i said early my orb gives my cpu 64C in fullload 62c idle mobo temp 31 so it is my ORB that not cooling **** i dont have thermal paste on mayeb that would bring temp down by 3-4 C duno im ordering my stuf next monday new fan and paste and my system is only a7v with duron 700 128 ram.
Hmm, seems that it's overheating your keyboard too;)
So you didn't use thermal paste and you want to complain about the heatsink!? I think you should complain to your manufacturers.
there was no thermal paste when i got my orb not in canada at least. so yah its **** if i have to get 10 more addons to make it work.
Flanagun
06-07-01, 10:36 PM
What was the original poster thinking? I'm going to try to stop orb bashing by telling all the people who bash orbs to come read this post. Well, orb bashing doesn't hurt nebody. I'd say it's more a comunity service letting everyone know that a product won't work on their machine. I'm assuming that most people on the overclocking forum are running an overclocked machine or are looking for a means to overclock. Myself being new to the overclocking and computer hardware thing am glad for the warnings. I hope that all future products that don't preform are bashed.
William
06-07-01, 11:04 PM
Rush, you really really need to get some thermal paste for that CPU. And on the ORB subject again, too many people get high temps with these things on newer CPUs. They are clos to dangerous. The orb design is cool, but not a great on, too little surface area.
MikeTimbers
06-08-01, 01:54 AM
rush (Jun 07, 2001 05:14 p.m.):
there was no thermal paste when i got my orb not in canada at least. so yah its **** if i have to get 10 more addons to make it work.
Few overclockers, in my experience, use the supplied thermal paste anyway. Overclocking is all about add-ons - a bigger heatsink, a better fan, new case fans, blowholes, Arctic Silver etc. If you think anything that needs add-ons is ****, how do you feel about your cpu that required you to buy a separate heatsink?
Anyone who buys an Orb makes their own decision. Personally, I wouldn't believe advertising if God Himself endorsed it.
Caveat emptor, people.
tweeknfreek
06-08-01, 07:25 PM
as you can see by my sig i use the superorb got info from thermaltakes site when i first started building my own systems and oclocking i didnt understand the importance of cw i just looked at cfm and the super orb w/2 fans seemed to move alot of air but after buying it and reading alot of posts about how bad it is i understand why now high cw rating and poor design (as another post stated no fins at hottest point???) i have struggled to keep cpu temp below 48-50c at one point it would stay 46 under mod load under heavy cpu usage it would climb to about 52c and at times 54c i had to cut a big hole in back of my case and i use a generic 60mm fan to suck hot air and have had to add alot of case fanes to push cool air in just to keep temp at 46-50c after seeing what others are getting their temps down to with alot less rigging i think the orb sucks!!!! i am ordering a Global Win FOP 32-1 with delta fan, arctic silver II and 92mm sunon 51cfm intake case fan next week and my temps should drop dramatically!! i cant wait i will keep my 60mm exh fan to suck hot air out as it sits right behind the cooler. thermaltake should realize they are producing a poor product and either remove it from market or redesign it because it is not a very good solution for ocl'd cpus(especially AMD Duron/Tbird as they run hot at default) and they target people who oc I paid 30$ BUCKS for mine and i feel i wasted my money i could have got a much better HSF for LESS!!!!!!!!!! any how thats my 2c worth.
Peace and Happy Oclockn8)
thermaltakes volcanoII hsf is a decent product for it's price, it performs within reason as a good hsf for cheap, and better than their orb products. the orb design isjsut flawed, it relies on the heat being spread out over a large area so the fins dont need to be on top, instead ot has to spread the heat out to the fins, and then it gets dissipated, it just doesnt work, maybe if it were copper it might work on the p4 with the larger area, but it just doesnt cut it
Got a bunch of orbs and as already said, they are okay for some applications. And they do need a lot of improvements, like cooling fins at the center.
But what I would like to know is has anybody seen a review of the new copper orb? Actually just has a copper core but would like to see some numbers.
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