open letter to OEM Movement members

[HardwareJedi]

Dear OEM Members,
I am impressed with the response to the Movement and think it is a great Idea. I'm a little older than the run of the mill Member and in my neck of the woods we call what you stand for as just being Honest.
However I have noted something that concerns me a great deal. In a couple of threads I've been reading where posters are talking about possibly having a bad part, One of your OEM members jumps in to the thread with a post reminding the Thread starter that returning a Bad part that was fried is unethical. Nothing on Topic, Nothing Helpful, just that post.
Now if the Thread starter had made mention of the fact that he was thinking of RMA'ing the fried part, I can understand the comment, But they did not. They were looking for advice on determining what was wrong. I find this type of preemptive comment very rude and uncalled for. Your member is assuming Guilt until proven innocent. Most people are Honest and do not need to be reminded by someone that returning a fried part is unethical. Unless someone specifically says in a thread they are thinking of returning something they fried, I think your Members should be cautioned to keep a lid on it. What the members of OEM choose to do is up to them, and I respect their commitment, but I don't think jumping into threads and making uncalled for comments is right.
Now, I know that it was prob. just a couple of rather over zealous members who think proclaiming Honesty by joining your Army gives them the right to Police the Forums, looking for Evil Overclockers, But that is not so.
I am am Honest person, and do not feel the need to Join the A-U-O/C Army because being Honest is expected where I come from. We don't give pats on the back for doing something that is expected of a normal Human being. I, and most other Forum Members, don't need to be reminded by your members of How to act. I did not join this forum to be watched over by the OEM Thought Police. I doubt anyone else did either.
Let me reiterate, I am all for the Movement. I agree with you. But some of the rude behavior I've seen is not called for and the next time I see it happen I will write a blistering letter to the poster, and report the Post to a Mod. Joining the A-U-O/C Army does not grant a person Liscence to be Big Brother.
If a Person is Honest, They do not need to be reminded that returning fried parts is wrong and telling a dishonest person is useless, because they'll do it anyway.
I hope you will all accept this as Constructive criticism and not cop an attitude. The Movement is Good. Some of the actions being taken by it's Members is not.

Sincerely,
Mark Cline
A.K.A. HardwareJedi

[Jeff Bolton]

i agree with you mark.

i don't know if you saw the original post that i made in gripes and moans, but i never had any idea that it would escalate into what it has. almost like it lost control to a certain extent.

my intent was to open up the eyes of the members that there were some bad things going on...i never intended for the people who agreed with me to just 'police the forums' as you said. in this case (and any other case) the holier-than-thou attitude is not good. things around here should be innocent until self-incriminated, because we can't do anything to the people who ARE dishonest. if someone wants to brag about their dishonest practices, then thats another story, because they've basically just said, "hey, i ripped someone off w00t w00t omg pwnd!" but for us to go around trying to find people and accuse them and/or warn them prematurely is stupid. we cannot stop someone from doing something...someone can only stop themselves. if the said person follows a signature link or reads the thread either james.miller or i started and has a change of heart, then my mission is accomplished. the army is really nothing more than a name.

thank you for posting this

jeff bolton

[UnWishedLegacy]

I believe that I could be one of the, supossed, over-zealous member that Hardware was mentioning as I posted a comment that, I thought, would put the feelings for us across- the way that the Thread Starter put some comments- I thought that he was going on about RMA'ing his hard drive after a short time of overclocking at a high FBS (I'm sure Jeff knows the thread im on about), my actions were taken in the best of intentions however- due to a mis-understanding of the English language across the Atlantic (many cultures, one language, one HUGE headache) other OEM members found that i DID act without due cause- however this is not the true point of this thread.

While everyone should be honest, This is a value that I have stood by for many years- it sometimes take a group of people with the same values to emphasise the fact that honesty is not a negative trait- an anitdote to the bad-boy image of modern peer pressure if you will.

We have reasons to try and persuade people that falsly RMA'ing stuff, due to the reasons mentioned in the multiple threads based on our movement, will hurt ALL PC users in the future as companies get more paranoid about people RMA'ing components- I dont mean to preach, as you have obviously read and thought about what we have been trying to put to the rest of the Forum, but as we now reach our 100th member- the movement will no doubt recruit people that wil use the O.E.M cause as an excuse to flame people or to start a campaign to "persuade" everyone that we are right- however an entire group of people should not be judged by a minority of people- the people who have had the task of leadership confered upon them (like Jeff Bolton and James.Miller) have done a sterling job of making sure that we don't overstep the line from peer group into a facist regime.

The only thing we can do to avoid situations like the ones that HardwareJedi has mentioned is to make some sort of self-moderation within the Movement- which wouldnt be a bad idea, IF anyone has time to enforce the internal codes of O.E.M.

Just my 2c (but due to exchange rate from US$ in UK£, it is now 13.7c).


{{edit}} The thread I was speaking about at start of this post.. http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141517

[mbentley]

i saw this thread and i decided to put my little post in here. i wrote this in the offical oem thread but i'll post it here as well just for reference, if you will:

Originally posted by mbentley
i am a member of the anti-unethical overclockers army and gotazool, i totally agree with you in this case. everybody should not try to just go out and tell people that it's not right to rma something. it's a personal choice. in other words, please don't tell people what to do. i would suggest reminding people that a unnecessary rma is hurting everybody but don't preach! it's like those people who go around beating the bible and telling people that if they don't think like them, they're wrong. that's not what this "movement" is about. it is about representing those who believe in the same thing. this decision is all up to them, but if you feel the need to, just gentle explain your view, don't tell them their wrong. if they choose to follow in our beliefs, that's great. if not, then that is the way it will be. please don't make it annoying because then we are going to have 2 sides, those who will rma anything and the "army" that is not what this should be about. that is just how i feel on the subject. in other words, please, please, please try not to be an ***hole about it. thanks.

i simply believe that some people are just taking their "duties" way too far as a member of oem. unfortunately people are getting to the point of almost harassing other members, and the worst part is that they do it without reading the post carefully. they just see "damaged part" and "overclocked" and they think "oh, i have to go off and be a dutiful oem member and b**ch them out about it. i just want people to think before posting. that's all. i think that could help make these forums even better

[HardwareJedi]

I would like to thank Jeff for his support. I was worried that I might take a lot of heat for my Observations and I am relieved to find that others have noted this type of behavior and find it unacceptable also.

I want to make sure everyone understands that I believe in what your trying to do. I do not believe that there are more than a few(out of the 100 so far) who are causing this situation.
I am in no way condeming the Movement as a whole.

T.Toy, I appreciate your comments and your Honesty. I did not see the thread you refer to, and that is not the one that prompted me to write my letter.
Per you comments about Member self-moderation. I propose you draft a Code of Conduct for Members. This could be PM'd to any new Army members and spell out what is acceptable and what isn't. To Join they must agree to adhere to the Code of Conduct. I'll leave the wording to better minds. I'm sure you can come up with a few simple rules to follow to prevent this kind of behavior.

It's just a thought... and thanks again for your Feedback.

[mbentley]

Originally posted by HardwareJedi
I would like to thank Jeff for his support. I was worried that I might take a lot of heat for my Observations and I am relieved to find that others have noted this type of behavior and find it unacceptable also.

I want to make sure everyone understands that I believe in what your trying to do. I do not believe that there are more than a few(out of the 100 so far) who are causing this situation.
I am in no way condeming the Movement as a whole.

T.Toy, I appreciate your comments and your Honesty. I did not see the thread you refer to, and that is not the one that prompted me to write my letter.
Per you comments about Member self-moderation. I propose you draft a Code of Conduct for Members. This could be PM'd to any new Army members and spell out what is acceptable and what isn't. To Join they must agree to adhere to the Code of Conduct. I'll leave the wording to better minds. I'm sure you can come up with a few simple rules to follow to prevent this kind of behavior.

It's just a thought... and thanks again for your Feedback.

the oem code of conduct idea is a great one... i'll be sure to get in on that because i know that some people can taek things a little too far, farther than most intended to make this oem thing about.

[PsycoPhreak]

Originally posted by HardwareJedi
Dear OEM Members,
I am impressed with the response to the Movement and think it is a great Idea. I'm a little older than the run of the mill Member and in my neck of the woods we call what you stand for as just being Honest.
However I have noted something that concerns me a great deal. In a couple of threads I've been reading where posters are talking about possibly having a bad part, One of your OEM members jumps in to the thread with a post reminding the Thread starter that returning a Bad part that was fried is unethical. Nothing on Topic, Nothing Helpful, just that post.
Now if the Thread starter had made mention of the fact that he was thinking of RMA'ing the fried part, I can understand the comment, But they did not. They were looking for advice on determining what was wrong. I find this type of preemptive comment very rude and uncalled for. Your member is assuming Guilt until proven innocent. Most people are Honest and do not need to be reminded by someone that returning a fried part is unethical. Unless someone specifically says in a thread they are thinking of returning something they fried, I think your Members should be cautioned to keep a lid on it. What the members of OEM choose to do is up to them, and I respect their commitment, but I don't think jumping into threads and making uncalled for comments is right.
Now, I know that it was prob. just a couple of rather over zealous members who think proclaiming Honesty by joining your Army gives them the right to Police the Forums, looking for Evil Overclockers, But that is not so.
I am am Honest person, and do not feel the need to Join the A-U-O/C Army because being Honest is expected where I come from. We don't give pats on the back for doing something that is expected of a normal Human being. I, and most other Forum Members, don't need to be reminded by your members of How to act. I did not join this forum to be watched over by the OEM Thought Police. I doubt anyone else did either.
Let me reiterate, I am all for the Movement. I agree with you. But some of the rude behavior I've seen is not called for and the next time I see it happen I will write a blistering letter to the poster, and report the Post to a Mod. Joining the A-U-O/C Army does not grant a person Liscence to be Big Brother.
If a Person is Honest, They do not need to be reminded that returning fried parts is wrong and telling a dishonest person is useless, because they'll do it anyway.
I hope you will all accept this as Constructive criticism and not cop an attitude. The Movement is Good. Some of the actions being taken by it's Members is not.

Well said, I agree. I have viewed the same thing happening and find that this whole thing may be getting out of hand.

I myself, "joined" just to let it be known that I'm one of the many out there that still believe in being honest and not taking advantage of others. I also believe that everyone has a right to their own opinion and to do whatever it is they feel comfortable doing. I don't see the benefit of forcing one's opinion down someone's throat though. As far as people "policing" the forum looking for certain post in which someone may make a mention of sending something back because it doesn't work, If that's what the admin's wanted us to do, they would have asked us to do it, seeing that they haven't, i don't think anyone should be doing so.

Like I said, everyone has the right to their own opinion and right to do what is is they want to do, but if it means jumping the gun and assuming something before knowing all the facts, then it's just plain destructive.

I personally like the idea of having a "group" of people who believe in the same ideals as I do, but if that "group" decided to try and take every matter into their own hands, then count me out, because like I said, I personally, joined just to express my belief in what is right, not to be part of some malitia group that goes out in search, hunting down and venting rage on people that may not believe in the same things, or who may "appear" to be on the ready to go against what we believe in.

If someone does happen to do that, then just a mere mention of the fact that it is wrong to do that is enough, but to assume they are going to is just as wrong a practice.

just my $.02
Happy holidays everyone!

[james.miller]

i agree. I was actualy going to post a thread about this myself.

Basically, it has got out of hand. this isnt going to work if somebody jumps down another members throat as soon as RMA is mentioned. that is going too far.

if you want to blame anybody, i suppose its my fault for starting the thread.

BUT, please let it be know, that i have the same views as Jeff, and MOST of the other members, do.

I dont not intentionally jump down anybodys throat.
I do not force my views or beliefs on anybody.

I simply believe that being honest is the better way of doing things.
If somebody doesnt agree then so be it, but i will not force them into backing down - and i ask that nobody else does either.

if members are keep doing this then i will simply ask a mod to delete my thread (and i suspect jeff will also) It's no skin off my nose.

[Breadfan]

Yes, just becuase you think you are doing something righteous is by no means a free ticket to violate the forums rules.

It's a movement that is more of a philosophy. It's not a military coup.

Like has been said so far in this thread, it's a way of thinking. We're here to help people, not flame them. If someone fries a part and posts a thread about it, and even suggests RMA'ing it, don't start flaming them or going on about how evil it is.

Instead, try to help them with their problem, and perhaps remind them that RMA'ing a product they broke is not very ethical.

The idea of the OEM movement is that people will see the reference in sigs and the idea will catch on to more people. The OEM movement will try to slow down unethical RMA'ing by spreading an idea, not fear or flames!

Mike

[cw823]

If a thread is started in which a member talks about RMA'ing his overclocked CPU, I would expect the behaviour that you desribed.

this is exagerated both in other threads and in this one. I think the whole "Army" thing is moronic, to tell the truth. I agree in that honesty should be unspoken, not that those that are honest are part of a group, and those that are dishonest.....

That aside. Discussing the illegal RMA of a product is NOT allowed in the forums. Threads that suggest/condone can, and most likely will, be deleted on sight.


It reminds me of the pro-lifers that kill abortion doctors.....let's see. let's kill, to save lives. Hmmm.

[Penguin4x4]

Originally posted by james.miller

Basically, it has got out of hand. this isnt going to work if somebody jumps down another members throat as soon as RMA is mentioned. that is going too far.

I would just like to say

'Every thing on moderation my OEM brethrens'

What the OEM stands for is not to RMA a product if the warranty is void. That is about as simple as I can say it.
:):santa2:

[HardwareJedi]

Gentlemen, Thank you for you input on the issue. I feel like I have accomplished my mission with this thread. I have recieved a couple of PM's from members who wondered if they might have been the person I was refering to and wanted to apologize for their behavior. They weren't the ones I had refered to, but I appreciate their Honesty and I respect them for coming forward.

Just as an observation, the term "Army" used in your name denotes a certain aggresive stance. Armies fight wars. Movement was better, but still denotes unrest. Since this is a moral issue, Society would be a better term to use.
The Anti-Unethical Overclockers Society fits much better. A Social Organization that stands for Ethical Overclocking.

Everyone wants to belong, and Joining the OEM is a way for members to be more involved in the Community life here at the Forums and also stand up and be counted as supporting something they believe in. There is nothing wrong with that. In Principle I agree with their Cause. RMA's cost all of us money in the end.

It's just a few People who take things over the Top, and Hopefully they have seen this thread and will be more aware of their actions in the Future.
I would hate to see the Movements thread deleted over the actions of a few.

I think the Overclockers Forums are the best on the web. This is the only one I frequent and offer input at, because I've found most everyone to be helpful, polite, and friendly. I was concerned that the rude behavior I saw might scare away new members or otherwise prove detrimental to the health and welfare of the Forums. I think we would all like to see our Forum thrive and grow. My goal as a member is to help at least one person everyday to solve his or her problem.

Again Thankyou for all your input. Together, we can keep O/C.com Forums the Best on the Web.

Sincerely,
Mark Cline

[Penguin4x4]

Originally posted by HardwareJedi

Just as an observation, the term "Army" used in your name denotes a certain aggresive stance. Armies fight wars.

Were more along the lines of 'Salvation Army' :santa:

[james.miller]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4


Were more along the lines of 'Salvation Army' :santa:

lol thats funny!

[UnWishedLegacy]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
Were more along the lines of 'Salvation Army' :santa:

Since when have the Salvo Army been docile? Those brass instruments have caused countless injuries :D
Headaches included if you work in a shop next to their make-shift bandstands! :mad:

however I agree with thier 'mission', I believe they are the only offshoot of the mainstream christian faith that actually DO something for the poor&faithless (and do more good than just a bloke in a big church preaching to the converted). I'm a follower of the 'Karma Principle' myself. essentialy the overriding rule to many religions- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" (or in the case of Bill&Ted- "Be excellent to one another") But I digress.

If we become a group that equals anything like the Salvation Army- then I would be proud of the O.E.M (or even more than I am already).