ATI 9500 pro VS Saphire 9500 pro

[IR1]

I notice the 9500 pro saphire cards are about $178. but I am wary of anything not built by ATI.

Do you think the performance between 9500 pro saphire and built by ATI 9500 pro will be different?

what kinda ram do the saphire cards use?

[Cisco Kid]

Should be identical as the 9700 Pro cards offered by other companies use the same reference design and appear to be quite similar in perfromance.

If I was to buy a 9500 Pro I would get teh Sapphire cause it costs less, just question what the ram is if you can. otherwise buck up to cure your concern

cisco kid

[q149]

The saphire probably has ****tier memory, so you wont be able to overclock it as much. and it might have lower clock speeds too

[IR1]

well actually the clock speeds are exaclty the same on both cards. But I want to kno w about the memory what speed it is and about itsa OC potential. But so far the cards are identicle clock speed wise.

[kanto]

I think that, that price is for the Saphire OEM, so it could be slower. The retail Saphie 9500 Pro has the same timings as the ATI Retail.

[IR1]

They wouldnt change the card for oem vs retail. OEM just means no box no nothing but the same card. Same as An AMD xp box vs oem. They all the same you just get the xtra stuff with the retail.. thats why its cheaper.

But I want to now about the memory on the saphire is it the BGA ram and what speed (ns) is it?

[kanto]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when the Radeon 8500 was out, ATI did their cards 275/275 but oem and third parties were 250/250. It could happen the same right now, don't you think?

[q149]

yeah, with the 8500 the speeds for retail were higher.
you would have to find out the exact memory on it and look at the memory manufacturers sight. but it is more than likely worse memory,which can make a huge difference for overclocking and i wouldnt **** with it.

[funnyperson1]

The 9500Pro will all be clocked at the same speed thus the Pro denomination

[IR1]

Guys all the Readeon 9500 pro's oem and retail by all manufacturers have the same clock speeds... thats not arguable because its a fact. I know the 8500's were clocked different but these are the 9500 pro's. My question is does anyone know what kinda ram saphire uses on there 9500 pro what speed and so on.

The default clock speed is not the issue here.

[Milan]

ATi's cards are notorius for their OEM versions being clocked lower. Ever since the rage 128 it's been like this.

[kiljaden5]

Originally posted by Milan
ATi's cards are notorius for their OEM versions being clocked lower. Ever since the rage 128 it's been like this.

how can an OEM version, which simply means that the retail box and software are not included, be lower clocked?? That doesn't make sense to me at all, maybe you mean 3rd party companies producing products based on ATI chips, that would make more sense but it is not the case with the Sapphire, which is clocked exactly the same as the built by ATI card

[Cisco Kid]

THE OEM versions that are built by ATI just do not come in a fancy box or have some of the software, RAM , gpu and mem speed are identical.

Only when you wonder off the BUILT BY ATI and purchase a POWERED by ATI may you run into a lower clk/mem speed on an OEM say as an example Sapphire.

Right now all makes of 9700 Pro cards are coming with the same rated ram and clk/mem settings, should hold true for the 9500 Pros as well.

Best bet is to get an ATI OEM "plain, or white box" as they are referrred to just make sure it is built BY ATI

cisco kid

[s[H]sIkuA]

Lol still no one answer , whats the memory speed (ns) of the Saphire Radeon 9500 Pro

well I don't know myself but I think it will same

[Arkaine23]

Originally posted by kanto
Correct me if I'm wrong but when the Radeon 8500 was out, ATI did their cards 275/275 but oem and third parties were 250/250. It could happen the same right now, don't you think?

When ATI first started having other manufaturers produce their chipsets, but now only to a very small degree does this happen.

[SBeaver]

Originally posted by s[H]sIkuA
Lol still no one answer , whats the memory speed (ns) of the Saphire Radeon 9500 Pro


That's what I'd like to know too, should be 3.3ns at least but if it's a bad brand then it might be crap.

[walkerIV]

if you have sharp eyes:
http://www.sapphiretech.com/media/9500/9500boardshot.jpg

[kanto]

In the picture of saphiretech.com it seems to have EtronTech memories, but I can't see any more details. The other pic didn't work for me.

[kiljaden5]

Originally posted by kanto
In the picture of saphiretech.com it seems to have EtronTech memories, but I can't see any more details. The other pic didn't work for me.

is EtronTech good or bad compared to the built by ATI card?

[The Coolest]

ATi uses Hynix RAM I think which is pretty good, I don't know what about the other RAM tho

[SBeaver]

I had a GF3 with Hynix that didn't even get up to spec speed so I'm a bit sceptical.
I don't know anything about Ecrontech

[SBeaver]

Oh here it is: http://www.etron.com/img/pdf/DDR%20SDRAM/4Mx32%202.5V/EM6A9320_03.pdf

they come in 2.8 3.3 3.5 4 and 5ns versions, I bet with a little voltagemod they could do good.

edit: someone plz try to find out what version Sapphire uses. I have ordered one.

[snvpa]

the mem could be any of these. I can't read the number but basically they are bga either 2.8 or 3 or 3.3 ns ram
Ordering Information
Part Number Frequency Power Supply Package
EM6A9320BI-2.8 350MHz FBGA
EM6A9320BI-3.0 333MHz FBGA
EM6A9320BI-3.3 300MHz FBGA
EM6A9320BI-3.5 285MHz
VDD 2.8V
VDDQ 2.8V
FBGA
EM6A9320BI-4 250MHz FBGA
EM6A9320BI-5 200MHz
VDD 2.5V
VDDQ 2.5V FBGA

[snvpa]

damn you beat me too it sbeaver

[SBeaver]

Originally posted by snvpa
damn you beat me too it sbeaver

indeed :cool:

edit: site seems very slow but here is the pro board but the pic seems like the same (have not yet been able to download the whole pic)
take a look at it:
http://www.sapphiretech.com/media/9500pro/9500proboardshot.jpg

edit2: yep it is the same picture, it may not be correct.
The pro could still be using other memory of the same brand and they should be at least 3.5ns if they're gonna match the spec.
Good but not great, but it might not reflect overclockabillity.

[SBeaver]

OK now we know the picture is that of a 9500 with 128MB memory or a 9500 PRO with 128MB memory since it is clearly BGA memory.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by s[H]sIkuA
Lol still no one answer , whats the memory speed (ns) of the Saphire Radeon 9500 Pro

well I don't know myself but I think it will same

How are we suppose to know no one has it on the board yet contasct a vendor that sells the card that the best way to find your answer

unless you have found out already


csico kid

[IR1]

I was hoping someone else knew from either seeing a review of the card and the reviewers stated the speed rating or someone found out some other way.

[walkerIV]

i apologize for the non-working link.
heres one for the full article:
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/sapphire-r9500-128.html
if you scroll down ignoring all the text you'll see the picture of the mem chip.
and way down some doom3 comparissons.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by walkerIV
i apologize for the non-working link.
heres one for the full article:
http://www.ixbt.com/video2/sapphire-r9500-128.shtml
if you scroll down ignoring all the text you'll see the picture of the mem chip.
and way down some doom3 comparissons.

nice link too bad in russian though, pain in the arse to do translating. However the Sapphire 128 DDR Pro 9500 looks like it will be a solid card at a great price.

I would not read too much into the doom 3 Alpha tests as the final game will vary greatly and all cards perfromance will be greatly better than what is shown

cisco kid

[snvpa]

although i don't understand russian it looks like the card has a bit of headroom for ocing with stock stuff. although those pics look like hynbix ram not the etrontech or whatever we saw earlier.

[SBeaver]

I'm confused, isn't it the 9500 PRO we are talking about?
The 9500 is the one with lesser pipelines or something like that

edit: guess you've all read the "review" over at [H].
they're saying it wont overclock but other than that there is nothing new.
It would be strange if this wasn't solved within a few days so I wouldn't worry about it (this is not me typing, this is what I wish for don't trust me, I'm evil)

edit: wow I just got me a new star ! :D

[walkerIV]

well another interesting point of the article is that by using 9700 reference design only 64 ram version of 9500 would have 128 bit memory rate. 9500 with 128 ram would have full 256 bit rate.
Something like velocity 100 trick.
But i think i read somewhere that ati 9500 pro now has different design from 9700 so...
Not sure about sapphires though.

and found the english version:
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/sapphire-r9500-128.html

[snvpa]

you are right beaver. that is foir a 9500 not a pro. I susupect the ram would be different for the 9500 vs pro. by the way kudos on the 5th star thats a whole lot o posts

[KerryrreK]

would the 9500 Pro run fine on a 4x AGP slot?

Kerry

[snvpa]

yes the 9500 pro is fully 8x and 4x compatible.

[tenegg]

so what ns mem is used by 9500 pro built by ati?

gigabyte's 9700 non pro uses 3.6ns ram, I don't see the 9500 pro use better mem than 9700.....

[snvpa]

well I think the memory is up to the 3rd party. though i do know for a fact that all pro cards have to meet ati specs. so i would safely asume that the saphire cards have at least 3.6 mem but i would hope for 3.3 ns mem.

[KerryrreK]

when you say fully compatible, you mean I wont see a difference between 8x and 4x? Im asking because I'm building a system for a friend and cant decide on the 9500 pro or a 3.6ns 4200

Kerry

[snvpa]

I wouldn't imagine you would see a differnece unless you are playing a game that would take advantage of the 2.1 gb/sec badwidth of agp 8x. mybe doom 3 will need that to give best performance but i doubt it. it would most likely be required by ga,mes that are cpu iontensive. typically role playingt or simulation games require more bandwidth from cpu to agp than shootem up type games.

[q149]

the saphire 8500's i have seen all use etrontech 4ns
if you can see the very last number on the mem chips it is the ns rating.

[kanto]

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a picture of the non pro version, although in the picture of the pro version it also seems to be EtronTech memories. They should be at least 3.6ns as ATI Retail cards.

PS: I looked both pictures to se if there where any difference, and the pics of the pro and non pro are exactly de same.

[snvpa]

the 8500's are all clocked lower than the 9500's so I would asume the 9500's are faster. all 9500 pro's must meet ati spec's which is 540 for mem 270 ddr ns/1000 = ddr so this would have to be at least 3.6 to meet that criteria.

[kanto]

http://www.guru3d.com/review/albatron/ti4200p-turbo/img/DSC00842.JPG
here you can se a pic of EtronTech memories from an Albatron turbo ti4200 which overclocks up to 730mhz, but this mems are 3.3ns

[snvpa]

that was the original memory from the albatron turbo as i remember. it did very well I hop0e it is the same as the mem on the 9500 pro. maybe thatsd why albatron switched to hynix crap mem. maybe saphire bought it all up. I'd love to see a saphire at like 310 core 730 mem that would be sweet.

[IR1]

Id think the core could get up to the same MHz as the 9700 considering its the exact same chip just underclocked with less ram chips aka 128 bit instead of 256 bit.

but the memory is another story until we a get a confirmation!

Hehe the 9500 pro saphires arnt going anywhere so I can wait till people have em and more reviews come out.

It owuld be sweet to clock this sucker near the 9700.. or even the 9700 pro hahahahhaha


ok maybe not but the anticipation is killing me.

[snvpa]

I'm with you Ir1. i'll get a saphire as soon as i see a retail box one.

[SBeaver]

They will use 3.5ns at least if they have Etrontech as they probably will have but 2.8 is probably not gonna happen.
3.3 let's hope for that, I'm gonna go over that pdf again and check something...

edit: I just re-read a part of the pdf and found something that could be pretty nice to know.
The 3.5ns memory model, which has to be the minimum that they can use, uses the same voltage as the better 3.3 and 2.8 models whilst 4ns for example uses less voltage.
This would lead me to belive that the 3.5 could have somewhat the same capabillities as the higher end models while a real chepo 9500 (no pro) might try to use 4ns instead because it probably costs a lot less but since Sapphire has set the mem clock to 275mhz allready they couldn't be so greedy as to use overclocked 4ns memory could they?

[snvpa]

They could pro9bably use it but I don't think they will. if I get a card with 4 ns ram i will rma it.

[s[H]sIkuA]

if it is a 3.3 ns memory card . will it overclock to 300/600 easily?

wish it can go up to 350/700 :D :D

[HeXenViRii]

Has anyone got their sapphire card yet ???

[T'wolves]

If in fact that ATI has locked the clock on the 9500 pro, would that mean saphire cards are too? or not nessarily?

[IR1]

Not sure I was thinking the exact same thing.... anyone got a saphire yet?

i hope they not clock locked.