^^<<<cryogenic style>>>^^

[kenji]

I am planing to submerge my mb in a sealed of tank filled with Fluorinert (FC-40 to be exact, fluorinert is dielectric=non conductive) which will be pumped out of the tank, in to some sort off cooler (maybe a phase change system) and back in the tank. Why submerge the whole board? well, 1 if cooling below 0 you have condensation problems, this solves it in a way. 2 other, in fact all the parts on your mb gets hot to some lever, some more then others like the cpu but all do to some degree. And a unified device to cool all is simple and very effective.

has anyone done this before? any sugestins/advice/ideas?

[CHYLDE]

the people over at OCtools did to the variation of LN2 andthen later with dryice, quite good results. but they said it was costly venture.

[Stumpjumper5200]

Be careful how far you cool the Fluorinert. I saw some crazy project like this where they pumped it out and cooled it by running it through pipes submerged in LN2. Quite extreme :D BUT, at those low temperatures, they said the Fluorinert started to turn into a Jello kind of form.

Basically: Don't cool it THAT much :cool:

[walkerIV]

at such low temps wouldnt the resistivity or sertain compounds decrease to a point where it would cause a problem with default voltages?
i mean production scale has gone down quite a bit with new processors. Could there be a possibility of 'crossfire' of sorts when transistors would get overloaded?

[I.M.O.G.]

estimated system life expectancy = gone to the crapper... its a cool project though, im just in no position to fry all my components. and imho i would say if you are going for one simple solution, this is NOT it.

[kenji]

well as long as it wont go -30 or below it should be fine. I know the site you speak of, they were fine till they hit -30, then the capasitors probably froze. But I am planning to stick to -10 to -15.... an LN or anything like that. Just a tank with fluorinert pumped out and in to another tank where an evaporator block will be, probabbly converted from one of those mini friges. What do thing. I mean it worked for those guys and I am not going anywhere near those temperatures.

[skahtul]

Wow, that sounds pretty cool. Make sure you post pics when you are done.

[kenji]

I'll be sure to. I dont have a digital cam but I will borrow my friends. This should prove to be quite interesting. Even though I know fluorinert is nonconductive I am still very scared about putting my new system in to in (p4 2.0, GeForce 4 Ti4200, ASUS
SIS 645DX 533FSB ATA133 3-DDR mb) I will test it on a rig I dont care about but still, eventually, even if everything is fine, I stil got that resentment about puting my rig in to fluids....

[I.M.O.G.]

the website you are talking about might have done something like this successfully... but do you know anyone who has ran a rig cooled like this and still had it running a year later? Do you want to have the same rig a year from now (maybe it doesnt have to last a year even)? how will the cooling substance react with all the various materials involved over the course of a few months? what is it that you actually submerge? everything or just the mainboard and not the hard drives or psu? obviously, I dont know enough about this, but it still basically seems like the investment of your entire system is too large of a risk - the risk would definetly not be worth the benefit for me. i hate to be the downer, and i dont mean to bring you down personally, these are just things you should definetly consider before you go ahead with your plans. good luck though if you go for it.

[kenji]

just the mother board, well and of coarse everyhting thats on it. Havent decided about HD yet. Will test on an old one of coarce but I have a theory that even though the flourent doesnt conduct if it seeps inside the HD it would not be good.

well I thought of every aspect of this project, and ofcoarce before doing it with my new system I will test it on an old 500MHz P3.... I will hold it in for a month and if everything works fine I will go ahead with my good rig.

I though about submerging the PS and I might in a seperate tank. After all as long as its no conductive it will be fine. Might as well be submerged in mimeral oil.

risk? technicaly there is NO risk. Flourent is non conductive and everything on the board is sealed. The only thing that is not that might be damages are the capacitors. But I plan to sel them off with silicone from top and bottom ends. Theoreticaly since flourent doesnt conduct its the same as submerging it in to air, which we know works just fine. The ONLY thing to be woried bot is it seaping in to capacitors and I will seal those off.

Anyone see any other potential problems?

[aenigma]

Yes it will work, Dr. Freeze did something like that with mineral oil and an a/c evaporator.He didn't have it setup too great though so if he ran the a/c too long the evap would frost up because he just ran the mineral oil over the top of it.I don't know how long he ran it for though.
I have also ran submersion cooling with mineral oil, but I didn't cool the oil.Just my cpu.I lost that board, but I think it was due to bios corruption.I think it was from low cpu temps.My new board does the same thing.Bios savior is your friend.

You can't put the hard drive in the liquid, not only are they not meant to be run at low temps.But they won't work with the flourinert inside of them.

Oh yeah and this isn't cryogenic style, cryogenic temps are below -80c. :)
Unless you plan on cooling the flourinert with an autocascade system or something :)

[I.M.O.G.]

thanks for the info kenji. :) sounds like you got it planned out well.

[SpudNik]

I am currently doing a project the same but using transformer oil not flourinert as it is about 100x cheaper (flurinert=NZ$267per ltr and TO=NZ$2.50per ltr) and it does the same job.
One thing i have discovered in my planing and construction is that Hard drives do not like going below -10deg C MAX. Also alot of them (not all) have breather holes which do not respond well to the oil, as the temp of the drive goes up it pushes the air out and when it cools down it sucks the oil back in. this is not good :eek:
Also you can block these holes but you still have to rember that there MUST still be air in the drives for them to work and in that air will be water that will condense once it gets cold.
If you would like to have a look at my web site drop me a line so we can share thoughts as my project is a labour of love and I am going all out to make it look good to and am useing Acrylic as the material that it is being made out of.
It has take 6mths so far as there are alot of things that don't jump out and hit you when you first think about it but once you get to that point you think "bugger!"
Good luck with your project and let me know when ya get it going
:D

[kenji]

>>>If you would like to have a look at my web site drop me a line so we can share thoughts as my project is a labour of love

a link to it would be nice ^_^

>>>mineral oil is:

1-messy
2-when you want to get the stuff out and ry it really wont, and it will all be greesy and crap
3-oil holds temerature to well, it doesnt release it well at all, qite the opposite. I guess if you keep it at low temps you wont have a poblem, but its still messy and greesy

[kenji]

>SpudNik

ofline....... well do reply when you get back on...

[SpudNik]

Transformer oil is not mineral oil it is a synthetic based oil the same as furenert.
It is very thin so it drains of the baord very easy and can be cleaned with warm soapy water if needed (and yes you can wash your mother board in water as long asd you dry it well before turning it on.
Flurenert is just as bad as TO as far as clean up is conserned but like i said before about 100x more costly.
It is desinged to take heat away from the transformer coils and radiates it throught the fins on the outside of the transformer.

Here is a good link that lets you see the differences between TO and flurenert

http://www.ninjamicros.com/reviews/hardware/project_goo/project-goo.html

[kenji]

woah, this is great, I didnt even know ^_^ thanx, any idea of where they sell the this transistor coil oil?

[kenji]

woah, this is great, I didnt even know ^_^ thanx, any idea of where they sell the this transistor coil oil? is there a specific number or <quote>PART NUMBER<unquote/> that i can ask in a HW store?

[SpudNik]

That would depend on what country you live in :)
In New Zealand it is ABB transformers but any place that makes them should have it

[kenji]

1. know of an online place?

2. can you submerge the power supply too? I mean since the oil in non cunductive I dont see any problems....

[SpudNik]

yep I am :)
no i don't know of an online place but any place that makes transformers will have it.
did you have a look at the web site?

[KLowD9x]

http://www.ninjamicros.com/reviews/hardware/project_goo/graphicscards.JPG

What kind of video card takes laptop memory??? Thats pretty interesting...(wow...something computer realted that I have never seen before...strange....:p )

[kenji]

was "yep I am" meaning yes you can put the power suply in the oil and have it work and its a great idea or not.

PS:
where do you see laptop memory?

[KLowD9x]

the middle card...thats laptop memory...I believe that card is an ATI...

[Turando]

looks like an ATi all in wonder, tuner card + d3d etc. Sounds like an interesting project, a local place here sells vats of transformer oil for 40 quid. obviously im un the uk;)


Cheers, Turando