Water Cooling Temp Question.

[EluSiOn]

I just setup my First Water Cooling system 3 weeks ago and I am postive I am making some mistakes. I noticed that my CPU temp is always roughly 9c to 10c higher than ambient temp(case temp). I use both onboard sensor or digital doc 5 to get the ambient temp. I am suspecting that my HeaterCore is not able to cool the water fast enough because when I OC, the full load temp and idle temp varies like 8c

Is it ok with following Temp?

Eheim1250->Chevette HeatorCore->MAZE3->Z-Chip->Resevior->Eheim1250

one 120mm Fan with Airflow 79.14 CFM + Shroud on the Heatercore. AC3 used on the cpu die and nb.

http://vivospage.com/temp/heatercore.jpg
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Stock Speed and Voltage

AMD 2400+ 15x133mhz
Motherboard: Epox 8RDA+
CPU Vcore: 1.65v
RAM: PC 2100 256mbx2 at Vdmm 2.63v

Temp when Idle

Water Temp out from HeaterCore: 23.5c
Water Temp out from MAZE3: 23.8c
Ambient Temp: 21.7c
CPU Temp: 31.0c

Temp when Full Load for 20min at 100% cpu usage

Water Temp out from HeaterCore: 24.5c
Water Temp out from Maze3: 25.0c
Ambient Temp: 22.5c
CPU Temp: 34.0c
*Temp didn't raise for the last 10min
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Over Clock Speed and Voltage

AMD 2400+ 12x185mhz
Motherboard: Epox 8RDA+
CPU Vcore: 1.90v
RAM: PC 2100 256mbx2 at Vdmm 2.90v

Temp when Idle

Water Temp out from HeaterCore: 24.9c
Water Temp out from MAZE3: 25.4c
Ambient Temp: 22.3c
CPU Temp: 38.0c

Temp when Full Load for 40min at 100% cpu usage

Water Temp out from HeaterCore: 26.1c
Water Temp out from Maze3: 27.0c
Ambient Temp: 22.8c
CPU Temp: 46.0c
*Temp didn't raise for the last 20min

[nikhsub1]

Seems a little high - with that board i never saw above 37C. I would reseat the WB and reapply the thermal paste... How much pressure are you putting on the WB (clamping force?) All other components look good. Is the rad getting hot? The pump?

[EluSiOn]

The temp is high. I am not using the mounting holes but the Socket Hold Down Block and I already added extra washer on the spring to give extra tension. The temp looks great if the bios is set to stock speed and voltage. The temp become high when I OC, The Socket Hold Down Device force you seat your block perfect, all I can do is try to add more washers to give spring more tensions.

Do you think that the cooling on my radiator is sufficient? The pump and the radiator is not hot when I touch them. Right I am not sure where is the problem... the Water Block or the Heatercore.

[deam]

Well, keep in mind that a .25V increase in voltage may drastically increase the heat output of the CPU (as gauged by your temperature readings).

Your the difference in the water temps is only a few degrees between the two speeds and voltages...which would imply that the radiator is doign an OK job at cooling that water.

AND, consider that, as I have read on OC.com itself, even the best of base watercooling (that is, not pelts, chilled, etc) will give between 10-15 degree temps above ambient temps, and that is generally with stock voltage and speeds of CPU's. It is difficult to get below that, considering that running the water through the the system without a heat source will give you ambient water temps and nothing lower.

[EluSiOn]

if the radiator is doing its job.... then it must be the cpu water block....Can someone confirm this?

because 46c is high..... when the ambient temp is 22c..... I am positive I have bleed out all the air packets.

[nikhsub1]

On my 8RDA+ I had voltage to 2V on my 2600 running at 12.5 x 200 and I never saw above 37C folding 24/7. Granted the block I use outperforms the Maze 3 by 5C, you should not really see above 43C or so. Why not use the 4 mounting holes? It really is MUCH better and you can get WAY more force on the CPU. I'm sure you checked but the Maze 3 can only be mounted properly ONE WAY. Make sure it is. One side is wider than the other and the NARROW side needs to go by the ziff socket lip.

[EluSiOn]

yeah... maze 3 can be only mounted one way.... and no other way.... If holding down device does not apply enough pressure, so there will be poor contact with the cpu die thus heat is not transfer to the water block and that is why my cpu temp gets so high.

I guess I will need to add more washer and also.. getting the 4 hole mounting kit

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by EluSiOn
yeah... maze 3 can be only mounted one way.... and no other way.... If holding down device does not apply enough pressure, so there will be poor contact with the cpu die thus heat is not transfer to the water block and that is why my cpu temp gets so high.

I guess I will need to add more washer and also.. getting the 4 hole mounting kit
A good lapping would help too - might shave a couple of C off the temps - I make it practice to lap EVERY block since I have seen so many with whacked bottoms. The bolt on method will help too... I don't even use springs I just tighten that sucker on there! Right now as I type, folding of course, I am at 30C at 12 x 200 1.85V. This is insocket so who knows the real temp. The 8RDA+ is insocket too so you really should not see above 40C.

[deam]

I don't think it is a mounting issue, or else the stock voltage/speed numbers would be much higher than they are.
It is hard to say really....

The maze3 is a fairly good block (i have it on my p4!), so I dont' think you would suddently go beyond its threshold, nor do I think that the temp would rise so drastically...

Do me a favourl...do the test slowly increasing core voltage, and see what happens.

Nihksub1: "30C at 12 x 200 1.85V" What is your ambient temp? and what is your equipment? Your in-socket refernce is correct, as it is highly unlikely that an on-die temp of 30C at that voltage and an ambient temp fo 20-25 degrees could be reached with stock watercooling equipment.

[Toysrme]

Try re mounting/lapping both of your blocks. I see a shroud so I'll skip the radiator/fan. You're fine there. I don' have any experiance with the TbredB cores, but I'd expect it to put out it's fair share of heat overclocked also.
Don't worry about the temp on the probe. Who cares what it is. Genrally if it raises 8C then you've raised 8C. Be it you're at 38C or 48C, the point is that you're in the ballpark of a 8C temp rise. Besides they can be upto 15C off so everyone says.

So try lapping/remounting and less us know how it goes again.
I hope that fixes it for ya! This may be a tuffy!
-Toysrme

[EluSiOn]

Thanks for all the good advices Toysrme, deam and nikhsub1

I ordered 4mounting hole kit and also I will try the bolt on method as well. I definately need to re-mount the block again.

Also how to lap Copper Blocks? Use what?

[Toysrme]

Go get you some sand paper of varying grit between say 800 and 1200+ I guess that I should add this will be wet/dry sandpaper.

I read somewhere else a lot time ago that the best surface to lap on is a mirror. It tends to work well for me so no arguments here!

Lay the sand paper on the mirror or window pane, anything as perfectly flat as you can find. Then just gently (don't wanna break glass duh!) lay the bottom of the water block (or heat sink) on the paper and start grinding away. Swap to finer grit paper very few min until it's as flat as you wish. (I normally go to 1000 or 1200 grit depending on what I have on hand)

The purpose is to get the surface as fat as you can possibly get it. 4 hole mounting kit is a good idea. If it's the type the comes with springs that you screw down, it can be quite tricky deciding how much to tighten them down. Obviously to begin with you'll be over cautious, I know I was. You really want the block snug against the core of the cpu, but not crushing it.

*warning this can crack a core if you're careless*
I check to be sure it's on snug by rocking the block on the points of the compass. This helps avoid chipping a corner. If you can push the block straight up, down, left or right gently. Then you haven’t got it tight enough. Then again if you give it a push and it moves at all, you may want to take the block off, clean it and the CPU and re apply the thermal compound. Personally I don't really care at this point. It gets squished anyways, and you really only have to do this a few times in the beginning to figure out how much you want to tighten your springs.

I hope that any of that made since to some one other than myself! ROTF! Good luck with it and keep trying. Just be safe and think everything through before you go on a reinstalling binge if you don't have any experience doing it. (I assumed not under these circumstances, but if I'm wrong then maybe there will be a slim chance that someone else will actually use the search feature and find this.

-Toysrme

You're welcome btw.

[nikhsub1]

I only go to 600 grit, seems better than anything higher. I would get some 150, 400 and 600 grit wet dry (auto store). Take a sharpie and put an X right where the core would make contact. Start with the 400 grit. If the X does not come off fairly quickly, move down to the 150 until you can get the x off quickly (keep marking the block if you have to). Then finish up with 600 grit.

[frostmeister]

I've had issues with stock thermal paste "settling in". I've seen a several degree C temp drop over the past few weeks, and no, not just because of winter :D I monitor ambient room temps, and generally keep it @ 20C. Temps have gone down from about 38 to 34 on both my CPU's. Has anyone found win2k gives you cooler temps - It seemed to make a big difference when I moved back to it from XP. Strange if it does... Maybe more things going on in XP generally to keep the CPU busy...