very good cooling, but no water or stuff like that

[freshy98]

Hi!

I want to buy some better cooling for my Radeon 9700 Pro as the standard cooler from Sapphire isn't good enough :-)

It can't be water cooling or something liek that 'cause I don't have to room for it in my Vapochill case.
So, does anyone know what would be a great cooler for the R300 chip?

I was thinking about a Thermaltake Crystal Orb or a Titan TTC-CUV2AB. These coolers I can get locally you see...

One other cooler I really like is the Zalman ZM-80AHP, but I'm not sure if that one is going to help me alot in overclocking the core.
Does anyone have any experience using that cooler and overclocking?

Thanks in advance!

[funnyperson1]

i would look for a 1u cooler like the copper cooljags/thermaltakes

[freshy98]

hmm, they look very good. but then how am I gonna fit them nicely on the board?

are there some thread or links you can give me with details and pictures from people who use these type of coolers on videocards?

[freshy98]

I found a Cooljag JAC311C on a site from a little company nearby where I live. Is this a good one to use?
Here is a link (http://shop.freezinghardware.nl/index-info.asp?ID=231) .

Also, I found these heatsinks at the same company.
Alpha UB35-15B - 35 x 35 x 15 mm.
If you click on this link (http://shop.freezinghardware.nl/index-info.asp?ID=577) you will see the picture and details (in Dutch).
I was thinking of sawing the heatsink in four pieces and fix them on the heatsinks. I would need two of these heatsinks then to complete the task.

If you click the link there will be an info page from the site. It's in Dutch, but when you click the little picture on the right there will be a larger view of it.

[RuKK]

Thats not exactly the same as the cooljag which I'm familiar with (http://www.ncix.com/canada/productdetail.php?sku=7640&PHPSESSID=3cc2fd67f70195c1d1fd1ab0d7af466b), but it looks basicaly the same and should perform nicely. As for the alphas into ramsinks, I bet you can find something cheaper at the a local used computer shop. 486 HSFs work nicely after lapping, as do socket7 HSFs.

I would be carefull and find out exactly how large the cooljag is (I believe its 60x60mms, but I could be wrong), and if it will fit on your card.

[SharkDiver]

I was thinking about a Thermaltake Crystal Orb
Do you mean the chrome orb?If so dont use it.I tried the chrome orb on mine and it sucked so I remove it.
Shark

[Silversinksam]

To make an IU fit you will need a dremel or a hacksaw to modify the heatsink, but in the end the results will be worth your trouble

The modding will be similiar to what I had to do with an 8500
http://www.overclockers.com/tips759/

[freshy98]

Originally posted by SharkDiver

Do you mean the chrome orb?If so dont use it.I tried the chrome orb on mine and it sucked so I remove it.
Shark

It has a copper base and I also believe that the Chrome orb was a CPU cooler and not a chipset cooler?

check this link (http://shop.freezinghardware.nl/index-info.asp?ID=65) for a picture.

[freshy98]

Originally posted by RuKK
Thats not exactly the same as the cooljag which I'm familiar with (http://www.ncix.com/canada/productdetail.php?sku=7640&PHPSESSID=3cc2fd67f70195c1d1fd1ab0d7af466b), but it looks basicaly the same and should perform nicely. As for the alphas into ramsinks, I bet you can find something cheaper at the a local used computer shop. 486 HSFs work nicely after lapping, as do socket7 HSFs.

I would be carefull and find out exactly how large the cooljag is (I believe its 60x60mms, but I could be wrong), and if it will fit on your card.

It should be possible to buy old heatsinks from 486's and such, but I would also need adhesive or tape which also cost some Euro's. If I buy a, for instance, Alpha heatsink I get tape with it in the package. Safes me extra money.

As for the size of it: I have to yet determine of it will fit.
Looking at some photo's of the card i found on the internet I think it should fit almost perfect. But I don't know if there is a 600mm gap between the capacitors.
I will find out tommorow.

[funnyperson1]

if you do in fact use a new heatsink you will have to find a cold plate or something because as i recall the gpu is lower than the heatsink

[freshy98]

I know. I read the stories about it.
But I was already thinking of removing that thing that is around the VPU.

[method().man]

Is there any way to mod a vapochill to cool your videocard in conjunction with your CPU? If that were possible, you could get some crazy overclocks.

[freshy98]

Originally posted by method().man
Is there any way to mod a vapochill to cool your videocard in conjunction with your CPU? If that were possible, you could get some crazy overclocks.

hehe, that would be awesome!
but that's like vapochilling a dual CPU system.
it's been going on for years I think, but there's still no solution.

[OC Noob]

I use the cooljag 1u and it cools pretty well. I can get a 360 core clock, although I back it off to 355 for normal use now...normal use, however, changes just about daily for me. I didn't remove the shim either, but someday I will.

Goodluck finding a cooler.

[freshy98]

OC Noob, can you make photo on how you modded the cooljag to fit on the 9700 Pro, or wasn't it even nescesarry?
please let me know!

I also found this heatsink, the Alpha PAL153 (http://shop.freezinghardware.nl/index-info.asp?ID=321).
Fitting this one with a descent cooler should be ookay too, plus I think this heatsink is easier to mod.

Any thoughts?

[method().man]

Originally posted by freshy98


hehe, that would be awesome!
but that's like vapochilling a dual CPU system.
it's been going on for years I think, but there's still no solution.

Well, maybe you can be the first one to come up with a solution ;). I imagine it would fairly involved but the bragging rights would be killer :D.

[freshy98]

I don't think that would be wise to do for me. I've got very little knowledge on how a phase change system works. Will leave that to the experts ;-)

[SharkDiver]

It has a copper base and I also believe that the Chrome orb was a CPU cooler and not a chipset cooler?

Ya I know it has a copper base but that doesnt mean it works good.If it didnt have the chrome on it it would work much better.There are so many other good heatsinks and fans to use so I would just stay away from the Tt chrome orb unless like I said earlier you want to use it for something that doenst get very hot like the northbrige but not for a gpu or cpu.
Shark

[freshy98]

hmm, ok. there is alse a full copper cooler I mentioned earlier.
the Titan TTC-CUV2AB I mean. that one would be better then?

[freshy98]

I checked it out.
The Cooljag should fit nicely when I'm using the shim.
Removing the shim might lower the heatsink just a bit too much and will hit a component and that will cause the heatsink to be imbalanced over the core.

One other thing that concerns me is that when I use the thermal adhesive, will the thermal adhesive on the core be enough fot the cooler?
The core is like 15mm x 15mm and the cooler is 60mm x 60mm.
Will it be safe? Offcourse, you must also know that the heatsink is hanging up side down!

[freshy98]

Well, I got my parts.
The CoolJag feels kinda heavy. Will the Thermal Adhesive hold the cooler when it's up-side down? And won't the core break when the cooler is only attached to the core and not something else?

Can someone give me ideas on this please?
Thnx!

[RuKK]

It should be fine as long as you use Arctic Silver Adhesive or Arctic Alumina (preferred by most for vid cards for its non-conductive qualities)

[freshy98]

Artic Alumina was indeed suggested.
I have some Zalmann adhesive here (came with the package of the NorthBridge cooler). But I'm not sure if that's good enough? I mean, strong enough and stuff.

[subconcept]

Use arctic alumina adhesive. It will hold. But it is permanent, you wont be able to get your hsf off if you use it. If there is a possibility that you might want to remove the hsf in the future, dillute the adhesive with some normal alumina so its less permanent. It will still hold but you will be able to get it off in the future.

[freshy98]

I don't mind that it's permanent. I'm just gonna sell the card including the cooling :-)

The only thing I wanted to know is if the Artic adhesive is really that better than the Zalman adhesive.

[equalizr]

me and another guy on [H] did the same thing to our cards (pretty much)

1. put a heatsink on the aluminum plate on the back
2. take out ATI fan and cut out a peice of heatsink that will take its place.

3. mount an AMD or P4 fan ontop (AMD looks better)
4. put on ramsinks
5. put on heatsink on backside of GPU (use thermal tape or equivilant so nothing shorts out)

6.(option) cut out side blowhole overtop of vid card.

i did all the above :) i have pics if you like

ALSO: you dont have to use AS adhesive or anything like that...just use AS goup for the interface then use a hot glue gun (on high heat) and glue the sinks down to the card (one line on each side) did that to mine, and its not permanent, will not fall off, and can easily be pulled off with no dammage.

[Evnas]

Originally posted by equalizr
i did all the above :) i have pics if you like


What kind of question is that?! Of course we want pics! lol

[equalizr]

here you are then :)
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/equlizer/finalatimod.jpg

[freshy98]

Evnas, indeed! We want pictures!!! ;)

equalizr, like Evnas said, we would like to see pictures :-)

equalizr, your just a second ahead of me

[freshy98]

equalizr, can you also post your clock speeds you can get with this mod?
before and after offcourse ;)

[Stumpjumper5200]

First off, DO NOT LET THAT SHIM STAY ON!!!

The shim IS higher than the core, and you would need a huge buildup of your thermal interface material to cover the gap, which is bad.

OC Noob - you would get a much better O/C if you took that shim off.

I'm looking to do the CoolJag 1U HSF mod on my 9700Pro. And yes, the shim is definately coming off, or I won't bother doing the mod at all. It actually makes that big of a difference.

I read one article where somebody took the stock HSF, scraped off the stock TIM, and then machined a channel into the HSF for the shim. I forget what kind of TIM they then used (may have even been that cheap white paste junk) and lowered the temps 5C.

Also, someone in another thread said they got the core to about 405mhz with one of those huge zalmann heatpipe coolers with a fan on it.

[freshy98]

Stumpjumper5200, watch out for my article soon. I will post a link here when I'm done. Gonna get started in a minute :-)

[Luciferase]

EDIT: Nevermind, I answered my own question.

[equalizr]

well my vid card is barely warm now due to those modifications..so i dont think removing the shim will make that much of a diff...i read a review saying its there for a very good reason with the gap like that otherwise they would have fixed it by now (ati and other companies)

im now able to OC to 360core and 350(700)mem without artifacts.

its not that the card gets hot or anything (barely warm for that matter) it must be something else? (drivers or voltage)?

[Stumpjumper5200]

The reason the shim is there is so ATI doesn't crush the core when installing the heatsink.

[freshy98]

yeah, but that's why AMD places rubber thingies on the edges and Intel uses a hat (or whatever you call it) on there CPU's so you won't crush the core.

btw: I installes my CoolJag now with the shim intact. I glued it completly with AA and it's rock solid!

[OC Noob]

Cool, let us know what kind of an O/C you get!

[pip]

the hat on p4s isn't to protect the core, or at leats it's not the main function, it's a heat spreader made of aluminum and that's one of the reasons p4s almost always run cooler than athlons

[pip]

that's a horrible clock on the core I'm using the stock cooler and getting 372

[OC Noob]

Thats really not a horrible O/C. Yours is just exceptional. Do you get artifacts? If not them pull that stock cooler off, put a good HSF/block on it and cranck up that sweet core!

[freshy98]

OC Noob, I still have to build in the card. I don't have time for that right now.
Christmas and a girlfriend is holding me back from that ;-)
I don't wanna blame both of them, but still... Little time.

Here is a picture from the card as it is now. It's not 100% final because I want to change the heatsink on the back (where the voltage stuff is) but the front says enough :-)

http://members.home.nl/freshy98/overclockers/RadeonCoolJag.jpg

[OC Noob]

It looks great!

[Stumpjumper5200]

Yes, very clean mod :D

BTW, I was curious about that fan and how to get power to it (plug it in, duh :D). But is it ok to use the header on the card for that fan, or does it draw too much and it's safer to hook it up to a molex?

[freshy98]

thank you!

the fan draws 12V and has a rated speed of 5300rpm and an airflow of 24.5CFM.
I think plugging the fan onto the motherboard header should not be a problem at all since this HSF is normally used in a 1U case and is then always plugged in on the motherboard.

to be exact on the type of the cooler, it's a CoolJag JAC311C.
I don't know the exact weight, but I guess it's about 200 to 250 gram's. I think. it's quite heavy :D

the sticker says it's to be used on a AMD XP 1500+ ~ 1700+, or an Intel FC-PGA (Socket 370) 933MHz ~ 1.1GHz.

[freshy98]

phew, the card still works!
I thought I damaged a chip when breaking of the little cooling plate on the voltage chip, but... I'm working with it right now! :D
gonna try overclocking as soon as I get back.

[Stumpjumper5200]

:eek:

Wow, you took the plate off too? Well make it worth your while and go for a voltmod too :D

I heard one guy pulled off a chip that was connected to that plate when he tried removing it. Killed a 9700Pro :(

[freshy98]

hehe, I know. I almost did that myself!
I almost killed one little chip, but it seems to be working just fine so far :)

And offcourse I did do the voltage mod. Otherwise I didn't pull the plate off in the first place.

Gonna benchmark for a while now.
I have set eveything to default now and gonna play with 3D Mark 2001 @ 1280*1024.

[Stumpjumper5200]

OMG he did do a voltmod! :D

I saw an article where they beefed up the cooling and did a voltmod. They got the core up to 450! :eek: :drool: :D

[freshy98]

450MHz on the core??? wow dude! that's almost impossible? I mean, that's so very much over stock...

right now I'm at 351MHz for core and memory.

[Stumpjumper5200]

Sweet.

But no, it's possible! You just need very good cooling, and that extra voltage.

[freshy98]

Well, I'm not done overclocking yet but I wanted to give some results already :D

I used these settings in 3D Mark 2001:

1280x1024, 32bit color
Anialiasing: none
Frame Buffer: Double
Texture Format: Compressed
Z-Buffer Depth: 24 bit
D3D Pure Hardware T&L


Core/memory/3D Marks
324MHz/310MHz (default) / 11343
351MHz/351MHz / 11941
371.25MHz/351MHz / 12048

This was done using Direct X 9 and ATI 03.0 drivers
I know there are problems with the ATI 03.0 drivers, but so far I haven't had any problems. (Didn't try OpenGL yet btw.)

The reason the memory isn't higher that 351MHz is that at 371.25MHz the memory didn't like it anymore. It completly turned nuts when the benchmark started and quiting it resulted in my desktop being crazy too. Gonna try cranking that one up later again.
Problem is that Radeonator 2.0 has huge gaps in the overclocking sliders and not 1MHz increments.

BTW: 345MHz core was about the highest I could go without seeing strage green things on my screen :-)
The memory max was about 340MHz I believe.

[Stumpjumper5200]

Do a test at total default 3DMark (1024x768x32) that way it's easier to compare.

[pip]

Originally posted by OC Noob
Thats really not a horrible O/C. Yours is just exceptional. Do you get artifacts? If not them pull that stock cooler off, put a good HSF/block on it and cranck up that sweet core!

No I don't get artifacts with those clock speeds, and believe me the second I find an adequate cooler for my card this piece of **** is coming off and going on the other cide of my card...hehe dual fans on my Radeon

[pip]

I'm thinking about the 1u or something form alpha

[freshy98]

As Stumpjumper5200 requested, here's a benhmark of at default settings. Meaning 1024x768, 32bit color and stuff.

Core / Mem / 3D Marks
371.25Mhz / 351MHz / 13547

I don't have a 3D Mark at the default speeds of the videocard, will try to get that later.

I do believe that the memory is at it's max right now. Most I saw at OC 3DMark Team is at 700MHz DDR. I'm satisfied with that :-)

[Stumpjumper5200]

Yeah, don't expect more than DDR700 stock. Ramsinks don't do much more than make it look pretty. I've seen a lot more than DDR700, but they used a memory voltmod.

[freshy98]

I have used 3 voltage mod's. One of them is the memory voltage mod.
It did help me a lot though! Before that mod I wasn't able to get 350MHz stable. Well, I had some green lines or dots and stuff like that. With the mod I now have 351MHz totally stable and I think I can increase another 6.75MHz. 371.25MHz is too much, I know that for sure :)

Here's a pictiure of the back showing al the voltage mod's. The image quality isn't perfect 'cause I had to use quite some compression in the jpg
http://members.home.nl/freshy98/overclockers/radeon_voltmod.jpg

[OC Noob]

Nice!

3 volt mods?

What can you volt mod other then the mem and core?


ps unlock that cpu and get the fsb up if you want to up those 3dmarks.

[freshy98]

I used the mod's from xbit labs. Check the link here (http://www.xbitlabs.com/video/radeon9700pro-overclocking/).
There's one mem mod and two for the core.

And I know I should unlock that CPU, but getting it out is hard and it's full with grease! Plus, the silver stuff I need/want is very expensive!
Maybe, sometime... When I've got money enough. For now, this mod costs me a lot!

[Stumpjumper5200]

freshy - that is one sweet 9700Pro!!!!!!! :D

Try Rage3DTweak or Powerstrip, they'll give you those 1MHz increments. See how far that baby will go :D

And out of curiosity..........with that memory voltmod, how are the temps on the ramsinks? Do they get a little warm when you run the card hard........?

[freshy98]

I spoke to Marcel Hoffs who created Radeontor and this is what he said about increments on speeds.

On most Radeon's you can increment the clocks with 2,25 mhz at a time, except for the 9700 if i'm correct.
Well you want 1 mhz increments.... it's not possible, sorry. These increments are baked into the hardware, there is no piece of
software that lets you increment with 1 mhz, powerstrip claims to do it, but they also can't if you pay attention to the values it sets the hardware to.
So I'm really sorry but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.... it's just the way it works

About the temps, I have no idea. I would really like to know that myself :-) Maybe someday I'll buy a bay thingy for it.

[Stumpjumper5200]

I don't need an exact number :D

I just wanna know if they're cool/warm/hot when you put your finger on them LOL!!! hehe

[freshy98]

hehe, well euhm... When I open the case, sometime again, I will touch and feel them for you ;-)

[MichaelMu]

could try these

http://store.yahoo.com/ocsystem/ocati90vidca.html

[Elite]

Originally posted by method().man
Is there any way to mod a vapochill to cool your videocard in conjunction with your CPU? If that were possible, you could get some crazy overclocks.


Yes you could do that probably but you would get such a high overclock it would be pointless unless you volt modded your vid card. Because you could probably get as big of a max o/c with water cooling that is if it wasnt volt modded.

[Elite]

Originally posted by Stumpjumper5200
First off, DO NOT LET THAT SHIM STAY ON!!!

The shim IS higher than the core, and you would need a huge buildup of your thermal interface material to cover the gap, which is bad.

OC Noob - you would get a much better O/C if you took that shim off.

I'm looking to do the CoolJag 1U HSF mod on my 9700Pro. And yes, the shim is definately coming off, or I won't bother doing the mod at all. It actually makes that big of a difference.

I read one article where somebody took the stock HSF, scraped off the stock TIM, and then machined a channel into the HSF for the shim. I forget what kind of TIM they then used (may have even been that cheap white paste junk) and lowered the temps 5C.

Also, someone in another thread said they got the core to about 405mhz with one of those huge zalmann heatpipe coolers with a fan on it.

That would BE ME<<!!!! :). and its not as big as you think it is. A lot of ppl say it puts a lot of stress on your card but it doesnt at all.

[Stumpjumper5200]

Hey! Yeah, it's that guy!!!!!!!

That is such a sweet O/C on that card, man.

http://store.yahoo.com/ocsystem/ocati90vidca.html
Nice!!!!!!!! That's the HSF Tachyon is using on their 9700Pro.

GPU HSF and ramsinks all together, plus you get some airflow from the fan to the ramsinks.........very cool! :D

[OC Noob]

Cool HSF, that would be a nice stock cooler:D

[freshy98]

that's the cooler Tyan uses. read some tests about it in november. cools really nice indeed!