Hack 9500 into 9700...

[Tipycol]

Xbitlabs Original Article (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1041719082)
Xbitlabs follow up (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1041838349) Contains info about the different R300 GPU boards
Xbitlabs 9500 64MB into 9500 Pro 64MB Original Article (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1041958046)
Xbitlabs Step-by-step Instructions (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1041925442)
Xbitlabs RADEON 9500 64MB into RADEON 9500 Pro 64MB BIOS (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1042040027)
Xbitlabs About Failure in Modding having nothing to do with the mod (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1042408060)
Wizzard's Software Mod (http://www.maxdownloads.com/~ian/wizzard/) Recommended way to mod
TruckChase!'s Thread about failed mod attempts (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157567)
Rivatuner (http://www.guru3d.com/)

This is for the turning the 128MB 9500 non-pro into a 9700 non-pro. The Pro boards are designed differently, and so this will not work. And as far as I know, this will not work on 64MB boards, however, they can be equipped for 8 pipelines instead of 4. So far, the recommended 9500 to be modded is the Sapphire RADEON 9500 128MB. Also, there IS A SOFTWARE MOD.

Remember however, there are NO guarantees with this mod. Some have reported no problems but many have reported artifacts and other video card issues after doing this mod. The decision is yours to make.

Soldering Tips:
Originally posted by james.miller
yes its small, but as with everything it comes with practice. if you have a dead motherboard or graphics-card or something similar practice removing and replacing SMT (Surface.Mount.Technology) parts on that. That will help you a great deal.

it IS easy, but requires a steady hand and LOT of patience. A magnifying glass is optional, but not a requirement (i work with SMT parts half that size - less than 1mm in length - easy to me, but ive been doing it for a year)...

1) get the right tip - idealy a long and pointy tip with a slight flat edge at the tip. NOT a small fat tip, that wont get you anywhere and coiuld cause a lot of damage.
2) keep your iron clean.
3) take your time. Theres no need to rush.
4) DO NOT put any pressure on the board or the SMT part with the iron. If you are doing this, than you are doing something wrong. That is where most people go wrong, and it can cause a lot of damage
5) A common misconception is that most poeple asume you need a low wattage, or low heat iron for SMT work. this is completly FALSE and can actually cause damage, not avoid it.
for example: for normal surface mount work i use an 80watt iron set to 350c and it works perfectly. For extra fine pitch work ( <0.8mm or there abouts) i use a special extra fine tip set at 400c. the moral : GET YOURSELF A DECENT IRON (wellar or ersa spring to mind) that's at least 40watts


Who would have thought that by buying the 9500 you could get a comparable 9700 out of it by moving a resistor. I just hope ATi doesn't change this any time soon.

Forum Members with modded 9500's with no problems:
Member: Kid98 Celeron Tualatin @ 1466 Abit ST6 512MB 3DMark2001SE: 10188 Bridged with solder NOT Recommended
Member: diehlr Sapphire 9500 128 MB Non-Pro Wizard's Software Hack
Member: LiGhTBoY Sapphire 9500 128MB Non-Pro Wizard's Software Hack
Member: Creig Epox 8K5A3+ T-Bred A 1800+ 1.83 GHz 512mb Crucial PC2100 ATI Radeon 9500 @ 325/600 3DMark2001SE: 13329 Software Hack
Member: AC Slater 9500@378/606 3d mark score (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5634718) 3DMark2001SE: 12151 Software
Member: CizMeyeAzz 3DMark2001SE (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5647130) Wizard's Software Hack
Member: couchpotato Radeon 9500np 128mb 3DMark2001SE: 8730 Wizard's Software Hack
Member: UnLoadeD Epox 8k5a2+, XP1600+ @1805mhz 3DMark2001SE: 13188 Wizard's Software Hack Problem with ATi Control Panel
Member: <Grisu4> 3DMark2001SE (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5660688)
Member: WaZZaBi 3DMark2001SE: 11500
Member:ManOfKnight: Thread (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=160860)

[funnyperson1]

haha thats awesome, now people will be wishing they bought 9500s instead of 9500Pro lol

[Tipycol]

Hehe...well we'll just have to see how a overclocked and hacked 9500 compares to an overclocked 9700 (unfortunately, I don't have money for that :)). Of course, there was that foul up at some site where they misprinted their 9700 Pro for $166 and sold it that way. So, I guess those people got the best deal ;)
Come on guys, 23 views and only 1 reply? And I thought this would be a very popular topic ;)
Oh well, to all those that have a 9500, enjoy :beer:

[OC Noob]

I can't get it to load. Can you answer a couple of questions please?


Since the 9700 has a 256-bit fsb, this is something that you can't change by moving a resistor. How did they over-come this and how did they change the GPU. The GPU on the 9500 is some how altered (what is it? it has 4 pipelines instead of 8). How did they over-come this?

Thanks.

[TweakOC]

well im kinda sool (sh** out of luck) cuz i already bought the 9700pro and that link at the top isn't working.

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by OC Noob
I can't get it to load. Can you answer a couple of questions please?


Since the 9700 has a 256-bit fsb, this is something that you can't change by moving a resistor. How did they over-come this and how did they change the GPU. The GPU on the 9500 is some how altered (what is it? it has 4 pipelines instead of 8). How did they over-come this?

Thanks.

the 9500Pro comes with 128bit memory the 9500 still comes with 256 bit, and the resistor swap was to make it have 8 pipelines

[tempest993]

Interesting, now if only it was up....

[Tipycol]

The links not working any more for me either. Is it working for anyone?

Well I still have it on my Temp files, so I'll make some screen shots...err...guess I'll put them on my angelfire site

Please be patient

[Evnas]

Well, looks like im gonna have to get out my soldering iron and some cash for a 9500 :D

[Tipycol]

Uploading pics now, it's just taking a while since they're a total of 5MB, and I'm on my 56K :(
And how do I turn IMG on in my posts? I try to do just <IMG> links, but they end up like <URL> links and in the post screen it tells me IMG code is off.

[Tipycol]

Well here it is, the Xbitlab page, chopped up and put back together LINK (http://www.angelfire.com/nm/themean15/overclockers/9500.html)

Also, that bios they flashed is linked to this site LINK (http://home.mindspring.com/~warp11/)

Hope this clears things up. Now I wonder what's wrong with Xbitlabs.

[tempest993]

images = broken :-(

[Tipycol]

Hmm...I dunno...I can see all of them.
Any one else see/not see it?

[tempest993]

ok, they dont show up in the page, but if i view source and copy the image url into the nav bar, they work.

[Cisco Kid]

This is a very interesting topic however I have a 9500 Pro so does not look like it will really benefit me.

I am looking forward to someone giving this a go on a 9500, if so I will sell my 9500 Pro and trya 9500 mod while I ca still get decent buck back LOL

Cisco KId

[1-Man-Army]

i got only a qarter of the page! damn piece of crap need oc3 just to load this site!

[Tipycol]

Originally posted by tempest993
ok, they dont show up in the page, but if i view source and copy the image url into the nav bar, they work.

Well I guess it'd be chopped into separate pages then huh...
Ok, for all of you that cannot see the pics directly, here are links to the pics separately

Page 1 (http://www.angelfire.com/nm/themean15/overclockers/top.jpg) Page 2 (http://www.angelfire.com/nm/themean15/overclockers/mid.jpg) Page 3 (http://www.angelfire.com/nm/themean15/overclockers/midbt.jpg) Page 4 (http://www.angelfire.com/nm/themean15/overclockers/lowerbt.jpg) Page 5 (http://www.angelfire.com/nm/themean15/overclockers/1stbench.jpg) Page 6 (http://www.angelfire.com/nm/themean15/overclockers/2ndbench.jpg)
Page 7 (http://www.angelfire.com/nm/themean15/overclockers/last.jpg)

[Tipycol]

Originally posted by Cisco Kid
This is a very interesting topic however I have a 9500 Pro so does not look like it will really benefit me.

I am looking forward to someone giving this a go on a 9500, if so I will sell my 9500 Pro and trya 9500 mod while I ca still get decent buck back LOL

Cisco KId

Hey Cisco Kid, does the main link work or did you have to separate the pics into separate ones like tempest993 did?

[OC Noob]

I wonder what ATI is going to do to counter this little mod.

[1-Man-Army]

the other pages dont work hump!

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by Tipycol


Hey Cisco Kid, does the main link work or did you have to separate the pics into separate ones like tempest993 did?

I was able to get to the article via the first 2 links you posted, and I bookmarked em

cisco kid

[Cisco Kid]

I wanna know the exact steps to how this is done I may be willing to give it a go, is there a link to the actual mod itself?

Cisco KId

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by Cisco Kid
I wanna know the exact steps to how this is done I may be willing to give it a go, is there a link to the actual mod itself?

this is some seriously GREAT news for an already kickin card wow lifespan can be greatly lengthed LOL

Cisco KId

[Penguin4x4]

But what is faster, 9700 or 9500 Pro? They show the benchies but fail to include a 9500 Pro. (And not everyone can get 370MHz on a 9500, now can they?:D)

[iceman2g]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


the 9500Pro comes with 128bit memory the 9500 still comes with 256 bit, and the resistor swap was to make it have 8 pipelines

According to other review sites the 9500 only has 128 bit memory bus!!

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by iceman2g


According to other review sites the 9500 only has 128 bit memory bus!!

yes I believe that both 9500 or Pro version come with only 128 bit bus

cisco kid:)

[walkerIV]

here's the russian version, look at pics and benches:
http://www.overclockers.ru/news/newsitem.shtml?category=2&id=1041715156

They still saying that only 64mem version of 9500pro has 128bit mem, and the 128mem has in fact 256bit interface.

[iceman2g]

http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9500.asp

It says 128

[walkerIV]

velocity100 ?

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by walkerIV
here's the russian version, look at pics and benches:
http://www.overclockers.ru/news/newsitem.shtml?category=2&id=1041715156

They still saying that only 64mem version of 9500pro has 128bit mem, and the 128mem has in fact 256bit interface.

interesting I have a 128ddr I hope it does have the 256 bit bus but I do not think that is the case, if so lets go someone post a link to actually how to do the mod

cisco kid

[walkerIV]

on 9700 the resistor is in 1-2 position
on 9500 it's in the 2-3 position
by resoldering it and using the warp's bios you can then oush it up as high as mem will go.

[Evnas]

This wouldnt work with a 9500 Pro Cisco...the 9500 regular is still using the original "hacked" version of the PCB that was given to reviewers a while ago...thats y this works.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by Evnas
This wouldnt work with a 9500 Pro Cisco...the 9500 regular is still using the original "hacked" version of the PCB that was given to reviewers a while ago...thats y this works.

makes sense I have not read into it enough, but I think you are on the right track

cisco kid

[Evnas]

Not to sound like a smart ass or anything (:p) but im very sure thats y it is. If u look at the 9500 Pro to the 9700 cards, there are quite a few differences. However, if u look at the 9500 regular cards, to the 9700 cards, there is virtually no difference at all in the PCBs

[gahdzila]

I saw a link to the russian article on [H]ardOCP last night while I was at work. I rushed home to post here about it...apparently I was late :p

Not to sound like a smart ass or anything () but im very sure thats y it is. If u look at the 9500 Pro to the 9700 cards, there are quite a few differences. However, if u look at the 9500 regular cards, to the 9700 cards, there is virtually no difference at all in the PCBs

that sounds about right. but it may not be completely true (hey, I can hope, can't I?!?!?). there may be some way to "unlock" the 256bit bus on the 9500 pro, even if this isn't it...if the 256bit bus is, in fact, even on the 9500pro, like it is on the old 9500's.

It looks like that xbit article is exactly the same as the russian one I looked at last night. same pics and everything. so the only thing I've seen out there about this mod is what we read there, and what we've discussed here.

I'd ALMOST be willing to do a mod like this to my 9500pro...but ONLY if I saw a LOT more info, from a LOT more peeps, in a LOT more forums.

I don't really browse any other forums...have any of you guys that do seen anything else about this anywhere else?

[Emericana]

according to a thread at anand:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=944902

you need a 128mb version of the 9500 NON PRO to do this

[funnyperson1]

and also some of the 9500 128mbs do not use the 9700pcb as the Saphire one does so if you plan to try this, use that one, the 9500Pro cant be modded like this because it has all 8 pipelines and a completely different pcb design

[water_cooler 20]

can this mod be done on a Sapphire R9000 non pro Atlantis

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by water_cooler 20
can this mod be done on a Sapphire R9000 non pro Atlantis

I would be prett5y sure the answer is no!!

Cisco Kid

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by funnyperson1
and also some of the 9500 128mbs do not use the 9700pcb as the Saphire one does so if you plan to try this, use that one, the 9500Pro cant be modded like this because it has all 8 pipelines and a completely different pcb design


sad sad sad :( for me 9500 Pro LOL, anyone looking to buy... might search out a 9500 once more light is shed on this topic and somoeone gets the balls up to do the mod and they show it will work, I would liketo see it done on a BBA 9500 OEM or retail

Cisco KId


GO CLEVELAND BROWNS TODAY AND EAGLES TO THE SUPERBOWL

[Penguin4x4]

Originally posted by Cisco Kid


EAGLES TO THE SUPERBOWL

Uh oh, you dun start it boy, LOL:D

[Evnas]

Originally posted by gahdzila
that sounds about right. but it may not be completely true (hey, I can hope, can't I?!?!?). there may be some way to "unlock" the 256bit bus on the 9500 pro, even if this isn't it...if the 256bit bus is, in fact, even on the 9500pro, like it is on the old 9500's.


There is no 256bit bus on the 9500 Pro...the traces dont exist on the PCB, and unless u can split apart the PCB and add them, it does not, and will not have a 256bit bus.

Now, in the case with the 9500s, i was talking to Brent at HardOCP, and he says it ONLY works on the early 9500s. ATi has finished the design of PCB for the regular 9500, and it will be the most likely one u get if u buy one now. The new PCB design only has the traces for a 128bit bus, and would again be impossible to get a 256bit bus

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Cisco Kid



sad sad sad :( for me 9500 Pro LOL, anyone looking to buy... might search out a 9500 once more light is shed on this topic and somoeone gets the balls up to do the mod and they show it will work, I would liketo see it done on a BBA 9500 OEM or retail

Cisco KId


GO CLEVELAND BROWNS TODAY AND EAGLES TO THE SUPERBOWL

nope, Ati is smart enough to have made their own 9500pcb, Saphire on the other hand may be your choice;)

[Shaotai]

Also remember, that the mem is still gonna suck at 9500 speeds. I think the max is 300Mhz/600DDR? The 9700 Pro is much higher... But those benchmarks show that once you overclock the core high enough, it can beat the 9700 pro card! Otherwise, this is a very interesting mod and I hope that Saphire keeps the 9700pro boards going with the 9500 non pro cards!:D

Good luck to those trying this mod... Let us know how it turns out!

[Evnas]

Originally posted by Shaotai
Also remember, that the mem is still gonna suck at 9500 speeds. I think the max is 300Mhz/600DDR? The 9700 Pro is much higher

The 9700, 9500 Pro, and non pro 9500 all have the same 3.6ns memory...they can all easily reach 310 - 320 on the memory, which is equal or above what the 9700 Pro is

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4


Uh oh, you dun start it boy, LOL:D

FOOTBALL TODAY WAS AWESOME what a great set of games, SF won as I wanted but Cleveland Lost :(

EAGLES lets take control hehehehehe:D

cisco kid

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


nope, Ati is smart enough to have made their own 9500pcb, Saphire on the other hand may be your choice;)

ahaha I will have to see what the deals are anyone looking LOL

cisco Kid


ps truly I am very happy with my 9500 Pro performance

[Bender]

So I take it a Sapphire 9500 non pro 128 MB card is the way to go if you want to attempt this mod. Does anyone know what other R9500s have traces for a 256 bus? I'm thinking about selling my current card and trying this mod but only if I'm sure the card has 256 bus traces. I have moved many SMD resistors so I dont think this mod will be all that hard. As an added benefit you can put some decent thermal goop and cooling on the core once the heat spreader is removed.

[diehlr]

What kind of thermal material is used on the R300 family of cards? Is it an epoxy, or a paste? Will I have to pry off the heatsink or is it fastened with some kind of clip?

[Bender]

Originally posted by diehlr
What kind of thermal material is used on the R300 family of cards? Is it an epoxy, or a paste? Will I have to pry off the heatsink or is it fastened with some kind of clip?

I have no experience taking an R300 apart; the heat spreader appears to be glued on and standard thermal goop used on the raw core. AS3 with a decent 1u copper heatsink would be awesome cooling for it.

[T'wolves]

Originally posted by Penguin4x4
But what is faster, 9700 or 9500 Pro? They show the benchies but fail to include a 9500 Pro. (And not everyone can get 370MHz on a 9500, now can they?:D)

Thats what I want to know. Buy a 9500 and turn it into a 9700, or buy a 9500 pro and overclock.

[Evnas]

Originally posted by T'wolves


Thats what I want to know. Buy a 9500 and turn it into a 9700, or buy a 9500 pro and overclock.

IMO, u should just go with the 9500 Pro. The 9500s wont be on the 9700 PCB for much longer...especially now that news of this is out.

[s[H]sIkuA]

OMG those non pro 9500 128mb is only $154 on pricewatch

:D :D

[Smultron]

..in Rage3d -forums somenone did this to 9500non-pro 128MB card. Unfortunately lost the resistor when soldering and just shorted the 1-2 bridges. Then flashed the bios... result: Card works at speed of 9700-model, but there are some visual artifacts. Propably caused by the resistor missing.. for sure there is a reason why a 6.8KOhms resistor is used. Maybe wit lead pencil (greater resistance than silver laquer) this would work :-)

Another guy did this to 9500Non-Pro 64MB -card.... result: 8pipelines enabled ..still naturally the 128bit memory bus because of missing 64MB(no chips at the end of those other 128bit lines). So no his 9500Card is 9500PRO!

I will buy Sapphire 9500 128MB card and try to mod it... sadly those cost 220$ here(retail packed.. no oems in shops so far).

[funnyperson1]

Originally posted by Evnas


IMO, u should just go with the 9500 Pro. The 9500s wont be on the 9700 PCB for much longer...especially now that news of this is out.

yeah but if he gets a 9500 and turns out its not 9700 pcb then he can still make it a 9500Pro;)

[Evnas]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


yeah but if he gets a 9500 and turns out its not 9700 pcb then he can still make it a 9500Pro;)

If hes got the right tools (pretty low heat soldering iron) and a steady hand (burn marks are so ugly on computer equipment :p), then ya :D

[Rafterman223]

This is the MOST AMAZING case of modding that I have ever seen. I'm pretty new to the modding scene, but I find this absolutely fascinating. Anyways, how would I go about taking off the resistor? It looks like it's soldered on to the two connectors. Would I just rp it off, or is there some special way to remove it?

[Smultron]

..don´t even think about ripping the resistor of. You have to use the soldering iron.. these little components are quite tricky.. so you ABSOLUTELY need to practice first soldering wit these tiny parts.

There is a confirmation of Succes from a Polish group wit this mod. Not very pretty soldering work, but hey it works! http://www.pclab.pl/?art=&sid=1572

[Rafterman223]

thanks A LOT, i've started playing around a week ago with my FIRST soldering iron. a 20W radio shack one i got for christmas

[Kid98]

I have a amateur 9500 128meg card on the way from googlegear. I should be able to give it a go before Friday. I will post back here with my results. Any brave current 9500 owners out there?? My money is spent, but I would like to see some more success stories before my board gets here.

Happy Modding!!!

Kid

[james.miller]

Originally posted by Smultron
..don´t even think about ripping the resistor of. You have to use the soldering iron.. these little components are quite tricky.. so you ABSOLUTELY need to practice first soldering wit these tiny parts.

There is a confirmation of Succes from a Polish group wit this mod. Not very pretty soldering work, but hey it works! http://www.pclab.pl/?art=&sid=1572
wow that IS bad work. that is diabolical.
Originally posted by Evnas


If hes got the right tools (pretty low heat soldering iron) and a steady hand (burn marks are so ugly on computer equipment :p), then ya :D
you dont need low heat, just the right tip. i use an 80watt iron that is set to 350degrees c for surface mount work, and i use that iron for 7 1/2 hours every day. never had any problems, and i build boards that are worth 5 times what a radeon 9500 is - so my work HAS to be perfect.
Im not braging, all im saying is get the right tip - a long and pointy tip is usually best

[Evnas]

Originally posted by james.miller
you dont need low heat, just the right tip. i use an 80watt iron that is set to 350degrees c for surface mount work, and i use that iron for 7 1/2 hours every day. never had any problems, and i build boards that are worth 5 times what a radeon 9500 is - so my work HAS to be perfect.
Im not braging, all im saying is get the right tip - a long and pointy tip is usually best

I was just passing along what i had heard about it...i dont solder (so obviously i dont do physical mods...now welding, thats a different story ;)), so i dont have any 1st hand experiance

[Tipycol]

Originally posted by Smultron
...Another guy did this to 9500Non-Pro 64MB -card.... result: 8pipelines enabled ..still naturally the 128bit memory bus because of missing 64MB(no chips at the end of those other 128bit lines). So no his 9500Card is 9500PRO!...

Hey guys, it turns out this is a possibilty.Xbitlabs follow up (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1041838349)
It turns out it is possible to mod the Sapphire RADEON 9500 64MB version. Xbitlabs is still trying to find out what bios to flash it with:
...Enabling all 8 pipelines physically by resoldering the resistor is no problem at all, however, you will have to make the BIOS recognize all 8 pipelines. Now we are working on that and if we succeed which is very probable :) , then these cards will turn into something like RADEON 9500 Pro: 8 pixel pipelines and 128bit memory bus. However, unlike the regular RADEON 9500 Pro, these cards will have no dual-bank memory architecture and will go only with 64MB of graphics memory onboard.
So It won't become a 9700, but it will have 8 pipelines instead of the 4 it's supposed to have :). Maybe they should flash it with 9500 Pro bios, but I think they'd think of that ;)

[mujgy]

as I have it kinda figured the 9500 128MB has the 256bit bus disabled by the firmware, so the hacked 9700 bios is flashed to the card after the mod and there you go a bit slower 9700.

[1-Man-Army]

hey about soldering i dont like having a friend (unless its a very exprince person in soldering) hold the solder cause my dad help me and he burnt my arm i still have the damn mark i was so ****ed of at him tho

[moonchild]

Would it help to use desoldering litz to get the resistor off easier?

[Evnas]

Originally posted by mujgy
as I have it kinda figured the 9500 128MB has the 256bit bus disabled by the firmware, so the hacked 9700 bios is flashed to the card after the mod and there you go a bit slower 9700.

Almost. The 256bit bus is there, but NOT disabled. However, because of the 4 active pixel pipelines, all the bandwidth in the world wont help it. What the soldering part does is enable the other 4 pipelines on the R300 (making it 8x1 like the 9500 Pros and up), and what the BIOS flash does is allow the card to use them

[james.miller]

Evnas - sorry, i didnt mean to soun like i was putting you down. i didnt mean it like that lol

anyway this sounds real interesting. i wanna see what happens with that 64mb card.

[Evnas]

Originally posted by james.miller
Evnas - sorry, i didnt mean to soun like i was putting you down. i didnt mean it like that lol


Never thought u were :)

[Smultron]

..just to let you know that the resistor is 1.55mm(in length) surface mount model. A 5X magnifying glass, steady hand and fine soldering tip comes very handy when doing this mod. Not for beginners i would say... so if you don´t have very good soldering experience and don´t want wrecked board ..stay away from this mod.

I even hear people who have tons of experience in soldering say that they will use a professional to do the soldering work.

[R.Rabbit]

got my Saphire 9500 128mb on the way, rememver people dont get to exicet and mod it before you try the card to see if its dead in the first place, so what im tryin' to say is test it for a couple days while the warrenty is still good
good luck to all who try this(including myself!):D:D

[1-Man-Army]

i want a saphie after i see the 64mb work
hey they updated the turn ur radeon 9500 to a radeon9700 guide they have step by step now heres link
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1041925442

[srwven]

What would be the best way to pry off the heat spreader? Should I use a fine screwdriver?

[Kid98]

A trick we use at my workplace where we occasionally have to remove a smt cap or resistor is to put a small amount of super glue on the end of a toothpick and use that to manipulate the part while applying heat to get it unsoldered. This way you don't drop it and you can hold it in place to reattach it. This is what I am going to do when I get my board tomorrow. (won't be modding till next day (Thur) at work though) You will want to dip your toothpick into a smidgeon of super glue and try to get the smallest amount on it. You don't want a glob left on the chip when you pop the toothpick loose again. Take it slow and easy, but don't apply heat for very long.

Kid

[HeXenViRii]

Where are some spots to buy sapphire 9500 cards ? i cant seem to find any ...

[srwven]

I just bought one off of newegg for 163. They were out yesterday but seem to have them back in stock now.

[HeXenViRii]

what about 128mb ones ?

[srwven]

Originally posted by Kid98
A trick we use at my workplace where we occasionally have to remove a smt cap or resistor is to put a small amount of super glue on the end of a toothpick and use that to manipulate the part while applying heat to get it unsoldered. This way you don't drop it and you can hold it in place to reattach it. This is what I am going to do when I get my board tomorrow. (won't be modding till next day (Thur) at work though) You will want to dip your toothpick into a smidgeon of super glue and try to get the smallest amount on it. You don't want a glob left on the chip when you pop the toothpick loose again. Take it slow and easy, but don't apply heat for very long.

Kid
Are you talking about using this technique on the heat spreader or the resistor?

[srwven]

Originally posted by HeXenViRii
what about 128mb ones ?
Yes. That is the one I ordered. They are bulk sapphire cards.

[Evnas]

Originally posted by srwven

Are you talking about using this technique on the heat spreader or the resistor?

Originally posted by Kid98
A trick we use at my workplace where we occasionally have to remove a smt cap or resistor....

The resistor :)

[Kid98]

Sorry my bad, I was not clear. I guess I should have remembered not all folks know smt devices are not heat sinks.


Sorry!

Kid

[diehlr]

What's the best technique on removing the heatsink from the GPU? Anybody have experience with the 9500/9700 cards in particular?

[NO LIFE]

Do you think I could do this mod to one of the Sapphire Atlantis 9500s?? From the picture it looks as if they are using the 9700 configuration PCB, except the Atlantis has a black pcb with different cooler. Thye must be the same though, right?

[NO LIFE]

Wait a sec....do all the sapphire cards have these black pcb's? If thats the case then newegg needs to update their pictures.

[james.miller]

Originally posted by Smultron
..just to let you know that the resistor is 1.55mm(in length) surface mount model. A 5X magnifying glass, steady hand and fine soldering tip comes very handy when doing this mod. Not for beginners i would say... so if you don´t have very good soldering experience and don´t want wrecked board ..stay away from this mod.

I even hear people who have tons of experience in soldering say that they will use a professional to do the soldering work.

yes its small, but as with everything it comes with practice. if you have a dead motherboard or graphics-card or something similar practice removing and replacing SMT (Surface.Mount.Technology) parts on that. That will help you a great deal.

it IS easy, but requires a steady hand and LOT of patience. A magnifying glass is optional, but not a requirement (i work with SMT parts half that size - less than 1mm in length - easy to me, but ive been doing it for a year)

the best advice i can give you is:

1) get the right tip - idealy a long and pointy tip with a slight flat edge at the tip. NOT a small fat tip, that wont get you anywhere and coiuld cause a lot of damage.
2) keep your iron clean.
3) take your time. Theres no need to rush.
4) DO NOT put any pressure on the board or the SMT part with the iron. If you are doing this, than you are doing something wrong. That is where most people go wrong, and it can cause a lot of damage
5) A common misconception is that most poeple asume you need a low wattage, or low heat iron for SMT work. this is completly FALSE and can actually cause damage, not avoid it.
for example: for normal surface mount work i use an 80watt iron set to 350c and it works perfectly. For extra fine pitch work ( <0.8mm or there abouts) i use a special extra fine tip set at 400c. the moral : GET YOURSELF A DECENT IRON (wellar or ersa spring to mind) that's at least 40watts

6) ill think of no.6 later lol
-----------------------------------------
Originally posted by Kid98
A trick we use at my workplace where we occasionally have to remove a smt cap or resistor is to put a small amount of super glue on the end of a toothpick and use that to manipulate the part while applying heat to get it unsoldered. This way you don't drop it and you can hold it in place to reattach it. This is what I am going to do when I get my board tomorrow. (won't be modding till next day (Thur) at work though) You will want to dip your toothpick into a smidgeon of super glue and try to get the smallest amount on it. You don't want a glob left on the chip when you pop the toothpick loose again. Take it slow and easy, but don't apply heat for very long.

Kid


superglue? thats i bit OTT for me - and my boss wouldnt dare let me use superglue lol.

the best way folks is to use a pair tweasers - the finer-tipped the better.

besides which, useing superglue is dangerous. does anybody know how toxic heated-superglue is ? that's a dangerous practice my friend. One that i would not recommend to anybody.

[HeXenViRii]

the only sapphires that newegg sells are the 64mb ones ; isnt it ???

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=sapphire+9500

the oem 9500 128mb's dont say wether or not they are sapphire cards only the 64mb version does ....

Originally posted by srwven

Yes. That is the one I ordered. They are bulk sapphire cards.

[Smultron]

One guy here in Finland got the mod done(his friend who has 25years experience did the soldering) ..soldering looked perfect. Sad to say that while the card got much faster(pre about 10500 3Dmarks after 12500) it also started to show pixel blocks in 3D :-( ..this is not a good sign!

It is allmost impossible to say what is wrong wit the card... since i beleave that its not the resistor replacement ...it has to be fault in the card. So maybe the other 4 pipelines are not perfectly in order or something else.. who knows.. (they only Quality check that the card works wit those 4pipes at the factory)

Anyways it must be stated that you should not take granted that this mod will be succesful! Then you have woided your warranty for nothing! ..ofcourse you can allways do the mod backwards and get fully workin´ 9500 card but that´s not very mind warming.

Well good news is on the other hand that Xbitlabs(other russian site).. could replicate the mod to the Sapphire card and everything is ok with them.. so i guess it´s a luck of a draw.

[OC Noob]

To rip off the HSF just stick it in the anti-static bag, throw it (not literally) in the freezer for 30-45 minutes, slip a credit card/phone card (whatever) between the HS and GPU, then slip a flat head screw driver between the credit card and HSF and pry it off. Be careful not to scratch the GPU.

The HSF will pop off and my fly a few miles (not literally) through the air, but its okay so long as you don't blind a loved one with the projectile.

Good luck!

[diehlr]

What do you use to reattach the HSF? I have some silver heatsink compound. I read that you can use superglue but the instructions weren't too clear.

[diehlr]

BTW I wonder if the visual artifacts are due to heat? The 9500 by default has 4 pipes, but with that increased to 8 maybe the heatsink/fan isnt strong enough to keep the GPU cool.. What do you think?

[TruckChase!]

Originally posted by Smultron
It is allmost impossible to say what is wrong wit the card... since i beleave that its not the resistor replacement ...it has to be fault in the card. So maybe the other 4 pipelines are not perfectly in order or something else.. who knows.. (they only Quality check that the card works wit those 4pipes at the factory)


It's the exact same chip as the 9700.. it should work fine if done correctly. I'll post my results here as soon as I recieve my card and get the modification complete.

Just for clarification, the reason this works is because the 9500 is a 9700, the 9700 is a 9500, etc. The chip is the exact same thing.

[diehlr]

Maybe the heatsink wasn't fastened back on the card properly. It sounds like a heat issue to me but I dunno. I'm goign to make sure the surface of the chip and heatsink are nice and clean and smooth before i put some silver heatsink compound on it and attach it back on the card.

[1-Man-Army]

james is right about that i had superglue melted by my glue gun and the smell went into my eyes it god damn sting like hell had to wash my eyes out fast

[Evnas]

Originally posted by diehlr
What do you use to reattach the HSF? I have some silver heatsink compound. I read that you can use superglue but the instructions weren't too clear.

You can buy Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive (what i would recomend doing)

Originally posted by TruckChase!



It's the exact same chip as the 9700.. it should work fine if done correctly. I'll post my results here as soon as I recieve my card and get the modification complete.

Just for clarification, the reason this works is because the 9500 is a 9700, the 9700 is a 9500, etc. The chip is the exact same thing.

Yeilds are never 100%. I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of 9500s were R300 cores that didnt pass with all 8 pipelines, so instead of throwing the chip out, they test it with 4 pipelines, and use it as a 9500

[s[H]sIkuA]

so far anyone here own the card yet??

btw,how much to buy all the tool require to do the stuff??
Looks like if I buy that card,i have to find some adult solder pro to help me solder that thing :D

[kiljaden5]

Originally posted by funnyperson1


nope, Ati is smart enough to have made their own 9500pcb, Saphire on the other hand may be your choice;)

ATI only makes Pro versions of their cards, so a Built by ATI card is not an option here

[Creig]

Yeilds are never 100%. I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of 9500s were R300 cores that didnt pass with all 8 pipelines, so instead of throwing the chip out, they test it with 4 pipelines, and use it as a 9500

I can't see how that would be possible. ATI would have to identify WHICH pipes work, which didn't and modify the PCB to use only those specific four good ones. It makes much more sense that ATI would simply chuck the ones without all eight pipelines working properly and simply disable the same four pipes on all the 9500 boards.

Now as to the artifacts, what happens when you overclock a GPU? You get artifacts. How do AMD and Intel determine WHICH processors are sold as higher clocked than others? By testing them first and sorting which ones perform within spec at default voltage with stock cooling. Those that don't make the cut are tested lower and lower until they either find a speed that the chip will handle at default voltage and heat levels or they toss it in the circular file (ie - garbage).

So it's more likely that ATI is simply using the R300 cores that couldn't handle the default 9700 Pro 325 MHz core speed/heat level and using those for the 9700. Those that still fail go to the 9500 Pro and then finally to the 9500.

Thus the artifacting problem experienced by Smultron's friend could be that the core is now producing more heat than it did before. This would come as a direct result from the card now being able to handle many more instructions per second from having those other four pipes opened up.

[Creig]

James.Miller, you seem like somebody in-the-know on this subject. I'm a fair hand at soldering but given the size (or lack of) this resistor shift and the fact that I would need to spend $ on a higher quality iron I'm thinking that it would be best to just pop the heatsink off this thing and take it to a professional.

Would most any decent electronics repair shop be able to do this properly? And I'm guessing that a pro could probably do this in 5 minutes or under. What would you say would be a fair price for a shop to charge? $10 or under?

[ManOfKnight]

I can't WAIT to try this...I am going to wait though for another month...the 9500 should drop ATLEAST 30 bucks by then

a 9700 for 130 bucks...hehehe...i wanna drool

[Smultron]

The guy who did this here is a pro in overclocking... so i´m sure he did everything right! So even cooling is definetly in order. He tried several different bioses and also tried to lower the clocks but nuthin´helped.. artifacts all over the place :/ ..when he flashed back to 9500 bios ..all was good again.

There is also another complication: when you remove the heatsink and the original thick thermal paste/pad ..the metal shim protecting the core will be significantly taller than the core. Normal thermal paste(silicon, AS3) wont do because the layer would be too thick.. and your card would certainly overheat. So you will need that thick gray stuff or the same pink goo that comes wit allready applied to the bottom of many processor heatsinks.

Another way is to remove the metal shim wit a carpet knife carefully lifting from each corner. This is what the guy here did.. so the contact is surely perfect wit his card.

Ofcourse you can also modify the heatsink by lapping/other method.. so that the center which contacts the core is on lower level than the side area which contact the shim.

[diehlr]

Thanks for the info, do you know where to obtain the thick thermal material like you mentioned? I plan on modifying my card eventually but not right away, waiting to see results of others and see if some kinks get ironed out.

[Smultron]

..electronics store maybe? ..or some computer shop?

My card should arrive today... i´m going to test the card troughoutly ..so it´s surely in good shape.. also going to get the test results to compare to the modded card. It will be so much satisfying afterwards when you can really see the power difference.

Not sure if i´m even going to do the mod on it though... wondering if i just return the card and wait the price to drop on real 9700. Don´t wanna end up wit card that has artifacts when hacked to 9700. Maybe i just do the mod and if it doesn´t work change the card back to 9500 and just sell the bugger... wit my luck the card probably doesn´t work even at default 9500 ;)

[james.miller]

Originally posted by Creig
James.Miller, you seem like somebody in-the-know on this subject. I'm a fair hand at soldering but given the size (or lack of) this resistor shift and the fact that I would need to spend $ on a higher quality iron I'm thinking that it would be best to just pop the heatsink off this thing and take it to a professional.

Would most any decent electronics repair shop be able to do this properly? And I'm guessing that a pro could probably do this in 5 minutes or under. What would you say would be a fair price for a shop to charge? $10 or under?
its not nessasery to get a better iron - i only suggested wellars or ersa's if people didnt already gave an iron. Wellar's can be picked up pretty cheap, ersa's? i dunno. my ersa iron at work was purchased for £85, and that was half price lol

As for the actuall moving of the resistor - a pro could do that in 15 second flat - easily. i myself built a board that had 60 3k6 SMT part's by hand in under ten minutes. To be able to do it at that speed take a lot of practice, though. Believe me ive had to work hard! lol

anybody atempting this should take their time.

As for electrical shop: sory i dont know any that would - you can phone around and ask, that all i can suggest

[Evnas]

Originally posted by Creig
[B]

I can't see how that would be possible. ATI would have to identify WHICH pipes work, which didn't and modify the PCB to use only those specific four good ones. It makes much more sense that ATI would simply chuck the ones without all eight pipelines working properly and simply disable the same four pipes on all the 9500 boards.

If they found all 8 pipelines werent in working order, they could simply disable 4 of the pipelines (as they do on the 9500), and test. If all comes out well, they sell it. If not, they toss it.

Now as to the artifacts, what happens when you overclock a GPU? You get artifacts. How do AMD and Intel determine WHICH processors are sold as higher clocked than others? By testing them first and sorting which ones perform within spec at default voltage with stock cooling. Those that don't make the cut are tested lower and lower until they either find a speed that the chip will handle at default voltage and heat levels or they toss it in the circular file (ie - garbage).

Artifacts comes from the memory, not the core. The core gives a whole mess of other problems if overclocked to high, hehe. And your Intel analogy there, isnt quite right. Intel could have a chip that could do 3GHz easily, but if the demand isnt there, they will bag it as a cheaper one, and sell it (almost all Intel processors are good overclockers and could have easily been sold as a higher speed to make more money). Dell is the #1 buyer of Intel processors overall. If they have a big order of 1.8GHz procs, and Intel doesnt have the 1.8s to fill the order, they wont hesitate to take higher clocked procs and lower them to 1.8 and sell them off. AMD does the same thing.

[Smultron]

Succes also in korea: http://www.darkcrow.co.kr/News/Eng_News.asp?board_idx=1655

These Sapphire cards seem to have different memories... In Korea, Russia, USA, Poland and Canada i have seen that they have Hynix 3.6ns chips, but here In Finland chips are 3.3ns Infineon. Maybe a little better OC´ability in these....

Maybe those artifacts come from that different memory? ...Infineon and Hynix chips may need different bios timings.

[Smultron]

DONT GO MODDING YOUR CARDS IT SEEMS THAT THIS MOD CAN BE DONE BY SOFTWARE!

Latest news: http://www.digit-life.com/news.html?1093#1093

[srwven]

Originally posted by HeXenViRii
the only sapphires that newegg sells are the 64mb ones ; isnt it ???

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=sapphire+9500

the oem 9500 128mb's dont say wether or not they are sapphire cards only the 64mb version does ....


That is not the one I am talking about. The one I am talking about is here (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?DEPA=1&submit=manufactory&catalog=48&manufactory=1561&description=&page=2). It is the one at the top of the list. Near the end of the description right before the see it link it says "powered by ATI Manufactured by Sapphire Technologies". By the way it is now 3 dollars cheaper than what I paid for it yesterday!

[OC Noob]

Originally posted by Smultron
DONT GO MODDING YOUR CARDS IT SEEMS THAT THIS MOD CAN BE DONE BY SOFTWARE!

Latest news: http://www.digit-life.com/news.html?1093#1093


All I have to say is WOW!

[srwven]

Originally posted by Smultron
DONT GO MODDING YOUR CARDS IT SEEMS THAT THIS MOD CAN BE DONE BY SOFTWARE!

Latest news: http://www.digit-life.com/news.html?1093#1093
Thanks a bunch Smultron for finding this That is truly good news. I wonder when this next version will be out? I don't doubt the legitimacy but I wonder how you can get around a resistor disabling 4 pipelines with software? I can't wait to see benchmarks. I will just use that 9500 128mb stock until I see this done!

[HeXenViRii]

haha ! i guess so ! it seems since it wasent in bold i glanced right over it :D


Originally posted by srwven

That is not the one I am talking about. The one I am talking about is here (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?DEPA=1&submit=manufactory&catalog=48&manufactory=1561&description=&page=2). It is the one at the top of the list. Near the end of the description right before the see it link it says "powered by ATI Manufactured by Sapphire Technologies". By the way it is now 3 dollars cheaper than what I paid for it yesterday!

[brint]

How can it be possible to "unlock" 4 pipelines by software?
When ATI made the lock physically (The resistor)
I will only believe it when I see it. So still I only believe in the hardware mod way to do it.

And that thing about ATi testing all the chips (like intel and amd dose)
I believe that they do test all the chips, and also that they, maybe, take a low performer chip and put it into a low speed card. Like the 9500 non pro.
And like Evens said, Intel and AMD do it too. But like she also said, they don’t hesitate about lowering the speed from a 2,0Ghz to a 1,8Ghz if the marked wants 1,8´s.
If you look back at the old AMD Athlons Slot A series, some users who opened the cpu case discovered that the cpu was infect a higher speed then what they bought it to be.
for example a 600Mhz could easily be a 650 or 700Mhz chip.

[Evnas]

Originally posted by brint
But like she also said

HE! HE! Thats my fiance in my avatar, lol

[s[H]sIkuA]

software!! that is what i want :D :D

safer and easier , no fuss

Drool cant wait for this card to reach my country :)

[s[H]sIkuA]

wait I cant find a link to the full review :(

[Creig]

Well, Pneumothorax over at AT confirmed that the 128 Non-pro Sapphire's at NewEgg are built on the 9700 board. And that it comes with all the extras (cables, DVI-VGA adapter, s-video to RCA adapter, PowerDVD, driver disc). AND he's already modded it and has it up and running pulling 13,500 on 3Mark2001SE at 370 core/290 memory with a factory stock Dell P4 2.4 gig running XP Home. He's going to reformat/reinstall and rebench.

My willpower finally gave out and I ordered one for myself this morning. I was SO going to wait for the 9900, but for only $160 shipped I couldn't resist. This deal is just too good to pass up. I couldn't take the chance that future 9500 non pro's might be built on the 9500 PCB instead of the 9700 and I'd be kicking myself for months afterwards for missing out on one of the "Deals of the Year" for 2003.

[McWarren]

I was looking forward to being uber-leet and doing the solder job, but now I'll play it safe and use the software when I get my Radeon.

[ataxy]

check guru3d it seem that the next rivatuner will have a softmod for tweaking you 9500 in a 9700

[james.miller]

that info has already been posted

[ataxy]

ok then sorry for the unusefull post

[james.miller]

lol dont worry about it :)

[WA2]

just by a 9700 and do not worry about it

[james.miller]

most people dont have that sort of money, WA2

[R.Rabbit]

Originally posted by Smultron
DONT GO MODDING YOUR CARDS IT SEEMS THAT THIS MOD CAN BE DONE BY SOFTWARE!

Latest news: http://www.digit-life.com/news.html?1093#1093
man you beat me to it by like an hour!

well a guy over at rage3d modded a 9500pro driver for 64megs, its on warp11's site!

[Tipycol]

Originally posted by Smultron
DONT GO MODDING YOUR CARDS IT SEEMS THAT THIS MOD CAN BE DONE BY SOFTWARE!

Latest news: http://www.digit-life.com/news.html?1093#1093

Hey that's great news. Can't wait to see the next version of the rivaturner to see if it works.



R.Rabbit
...well a guy over at rage3d modded a 9500pro driver for 64megs, its on warp11's site!
Yup he's right, there's another Xbitlabs article (although rapsac at Rage3d forums should get the credit for it) about turning your radeon 9500 64MB into a 9500 64MB Pro (the bios was the last thing needed for it to work properly). Xbitlabs Convert RADEON 9500 64MB into RADEON 9500 Pro 64MB...New BIOS (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1042040027)

And who has actually done either mod in this forums (either being 9500 64MB into a 9500 64MB Pro or 9500 128MB into 9700 128MB)? With your permission, I would like to have a list on the first post of people at this forums that have successfully done this mod.

[McWarren]

I could finally make a name for myself by being one of the first, but it'll probably pass me by as I don't get paid until the end of this month :(

Anybody want to finance my attempt?

[Tipycol]

Well, I'd do it myself, except for the fact I just spent all my money on a watercooling setup. And I would've like to have been one of the first too ;)

Oh well, now that I think of it, maybe I should just put the names in alphabetical order. That way, no one would do a rush job on their soldering and screw their brand new card up. What do you guys think, order of appearance or by their name?

[ROFISH]

Ok, I'm confused. The 9500 non-pro has 4 pixel pipelines and 128-bit memory, the 9700 pro has 8 pixels pipelines and 256-bit right? So doing what changes what?

EDIT: Oh, and there's a clock difference, but that can eaisly be changed :)

[Tipycol]

The memory bus is based on the amount of onboard graphics memory. Since the 9500's (at least the Saphire ones) PCB layout are built like the RADEON 9700, 128MB cards already have the 256bit memory bus. The 64MB versions have only half of the chips, so their equipped with half the memory bus which is 128bit. And the 4 extra pipelines are disabled, as well as that extra memory bus. But they are all linked to that one resistor (or soon to be software with that rivatuner update).

So it's not like adding the 256bit bus or the 4 pipelines. They're already there but has just been disabled.

[ROFISH]

I know they're there like HT on all P4s, but disabled, but the resistor things turns on both? So all I need to do is the resistor trick, and it turns on both? And then up the core/mem and I got a 9700pro for cheap? Then what does flashing the bios do, besides artifacts and windows recognizing it as a 9700.

EDIT: And I know nothing about RivaTuner, do they update often or do I have to wait 3 months for them to add the feature?

[UnLoadeD]

Well after reading a bunch of threads about this I couldn't resist and ordered one for myself. newegg is sold out of them again, I ordered mine from www.bananapc.com for $150, I never heard of them before but they seem to be decent according to resellerratings.com I'll prolly do the hardware hack rather than wait for the software version. I've done some soldering on smt leds so it shouldn't be too difficult. All of you guys waiting should keep in mind that these cards are prolly gonna become scarce pretty quickly, and I've heard that ATI has a new PCB for the 9500's that will replace the 9700 PCB currently being used. That was the main reason I went ahead and ordered one. Ill post results after I'm done although it will be at least a week taking delivery and such into account.

peace.
unloaded

[Tipycol]

Originally posted by ROFISH
I know they're there like HT on all P4s, but disabled, but the resistor things turns on both? So all I need to do is the resistor trick, and it turns on both? And then up the core/mem and I got a 9700pro for cheap? Then what does flashing the bios do, besides artifacts and windows recognizing it as a 9700.

EDIT: And I know nothing about RivaTuner, do they update often or do I have to wait 3 months for them to add the feature?

The bios basically reflashes it as a 9700. Otherwise, I believe the card would not work correctly, like it won't do 3d applications or it will project the desktop but not show icons.

The rivatuner is just a way to adjust the settings on the video card and the windows display. The thing is that the creator has reportedly found a way for software to do the mod. He plans to incorporate it into rivatuner when the next revision comes out. As to when that is, I don't know.


And good luck UnLoadeD, I hope things work out and you can have a brand new modded 9700. I have heard the ATi has already made different PCB boards on the 9500. However, Saphire, one of the makers of the 9500, still has the PCB board that can be modded, and I haven't heard of them changing it (and I hope they don't ;))

[MameXP]

Rofish, i think u misunderstood "bios"

reflash the bios IS to unlock the other 4 pipline, and fully use 256bit. everyhardware need to be optimized or controlled by software. The most naked, not very much interfac is bios

Ps, you can also reflas the LG 32xRW to LG40xRW

MameXP,

[R.Rabbit]

oh and a couple smt guys over at rage3d have some good soldering advice but the best is to use a 12-20 watt iron or one you can adjust to that level , and a really long pointy tip, they say that the thermal shock of the hotter irons could crack the resitor! not to mention burning through the pcb,
once i get mine im gunna run 3dmark for like 2 days straight before i mod it to make sure its not a peice of crap so if it is then i can just send it back under the warrenty!
and another thing rapsac(the first guy to mod his 64 mb 9500 to a 64mb 9500Pro) got 8,0003dmarks befor the mod and after the mod he got 12,250, the guys that used the soft ware mod started at 9,000 and only got to 11,000, this may just be luck on rapsac's part but i think that the physical mod may be more effecient or something, well i dont really know much about this type of stuff,
well good luck on your modding!:D:D
hey Tipycol i say put it in order of performance sorted by card(64 and 128mb), cus i live overseas and it takes two weeks to ship here otherwise id already have it!

if the 9500 64mb has the 9500Pro pcb,
and the 9500 128mb has the 9700 pcb,
then 9600 must have the 9700Pro pcb!
where can i get one of these!(hehehe j/k!)

[ataxy]

hey how about no more soldering
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1042058170

[james.miller]

Originally posted by R.Rabbit
oh and a couple smt guys over at rage3d have some good soldering advice but the best is to use a 12-20 watt iron or one you can adjust to that level , and a really small tip, they say that the thermal shock of the hotter irons could crack the resitor! not to mention burning through the pcb,
thats totally incorrect. read my second post in the third page of this thread:rolleyes:

[R.Rabbit]

Originally posted by james.miller

thats totally incorrect. read my second post in the third page of this thread:rolleyes:
hey man i just post the info that i read, yas ideally a 40 watt would be good but the people over at rage3d are giving advice to people that dont know crap about smt(like me) they said 12-20 watt to be on the safe side, yes if you already know smt this isnt true but well you already know smt! well i'll leve the advice to you people that actually know this stuff(like you)

[james.miller]

i wasn't getting at you dont worry:).
but thats exactly what i was talking about. its a common misconception, and more often than not it causes damage, not avoids it

[R.Rabbit]

so would you recomend a 30 watt iron? the next step up at my local hardware store is 80watt

[ataxy]

you dont need to solder

[Kid98]

Success!! (I think....)
Time for an update on my 9500 mod project. I recieved my 9500 np 128 from GoogleGear yesterday. ($165) It was a red pcb with the memory 2 x2 like you want. The memory chips were 3.3 infineon. They had traces on all four sides, so I was excited to about the mod more than ever. (looks like I scored the right card, but have not heard of anyone getting the wrong one yet) I read all the posts about a software hack, but was not willing to wait 1 -2 weeks. So I popped off the heatsink and began. I had a magnifying lamp so I could see pretty good. I super glued a toothpick to the resistor so it would be easier to manipulate while soldering and resoldering. I got it loose ok, but when I checked it with a meter it was open. I guess the heat killed it and I was pretty careful and had filed down a iron tip just for this job. I pulled out an old 340 meg harddrive and began to practice removing resistors. I was of course looking for one close to 6.8Kohms. The resistors where 1206 packaging so they were twice the size of what I wanted to replace. It was now nearing 2 oclock in the morning and I was jonesing to see if I could make it work. The larger resistors from the harddrive would not line up well enough to make a decent solder job, if connected on both ends at all. So frustrated and not willing to wait to today, I just connected pins 1 and 2 with a drop of solder. I am worried that later due to the lack of a current limiting 6.8 kohm resistor that the transistor or junction that I turned on will burn out, but hey, it worked!!!! The TIM was an yellowish gum and I needed to replace its thickness due to the height of the shim around the R300. I took the indium sheet off of an old Tualatin retail heatsink and folded it over twice. I smashed it down flat and cut it to fit on top of the GPU. I put a small amount of heatsink compound (plain white stuff) on top and bottom of my new TIM shim and put the heatsink back on. I flashed the 97npsap.bin bios from Warp11 after booting to a dos prompt and crossed my fingers. I then canceled XP's attempts to load a driver and installed the verison 3.0 catalyst drivers. After finding Rage3d tweak would work with the cat 3 drivers for overclocking I managed a core of 330 and 290 memory. Any higher and I get really messed up screens in the nature test of 3Dmark 2001 SE. I get 10188 3d marks now, but had never saved my previous scores. I compared to a similar cpu and GF3 TI500 (I had a gainward GF3 TI200 before) and saw numbers from 6500 to 7200. So I guess all is well. My system is a Celeron Tualatin @ 1466 on an Abit ST6. 512 meg of memory. I am not recommending the shorting of pins 1 and 2 on the GPU, but in my desperation to see if things would work, I used this method on my 9500. Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give as much info and I could and I am sure there may be more questions.

Kid

[NO LIFE]

Wow, I guess your the first then man.....the first to do the "shady" no resistor mod! :P

Im hoping I can be the first to do the resistor mod. Im getting my card monday, and since I just finished building my own pocket cd player amp I have a few extra 6.8 resistors, I will just replace the one on the 9500 instead of reusing it. I would recommend anyone doing this mod go buy a resistor instead of replacing the existing one. Those things are extremely cheap....like $.50 for 5.

BTW your scores are very good. With that system 10,000 3DMarks is very respectable. Also, I have never used an ATI card before, so are the Cat 3.0's the best Radeon drivers out?

One more thing....what did u use to test that resistor?

GOOD JOB!!

-JP

[Kid98]

I used my Fluke 87 handheld. My trusty old meter from my thin-film production days. (I currently work in aerospace and do instrumentation and metrology, no more manufacturing..hehe) I was a thin-film tech on a production line making those darn resistors!!! We made 1206 parts and going to 0805 looked like a real challenge. Now you have to almost have a magnifier to see the part codes on top. BTW I checked the part over thoroughly to make sure my crazy glue was not covering the solder pads and it was not. I just killed it with heat I guess. The laser patterns on those parts are not designed for robustness, so a line about a human hair wide is all you have to break before you have a bad part. (the patterns are designed for speed in production and accuracy in trimming) I have an upgrade in the works so I will be able to prove to myself that this card has much more to give and that my processor is holding it back.

[b]Kid

[TruckChase!]

Nice, thanks for the 411...

BTW, what kinda iron did you use? How many watt? I've got a variable weller and I wanna see what temps others were using to make sure I get it right when I try. Since you burned yours up, I'll probably keep it lower than whatever your iron is. ;)

[james.miller]

its not the wattage its the tempreature. ive allready said this.

the wattage only changes how fast the iron can heat up, and how good it is at staying at that temp. like i said before, i use an 80watt, 400c iron and ive never had a problem. either that resistor allready had an imperfection and the heat finished it off, or else he put too much pressure on it and cracked it.

[TruckChase!]

Actually, wattage is applicable. Wattage dictates the speed that the heat can be "pumped" to a joint. Too many watts at too high a temp will fry a component a helluva lot faster than a lower watt iron with just the high temp.

To refine my question:

What wattage and temp iron were you using?

Thanks

[diehlr]

With larger components, that statement is pretty valid about the low vs high wattage irons. But when you're desoldering something the size of a pinhead, the amount of energy transferred to the joint to melt the solder will be very small. So I don't think the wattage is as important in this case, as opposed to temperature.

[TruckChase!]

Originally posted by diehlr
But when you're desoldering something the size of a pinhead, the amount of energy transferred to the joint to melt the solder will be very small. So I don't think the wattage is as important in this case, as opposed to temperature.

That's a judgement call. I'd still like to know.

[Shaotai]

Originally posted by TruckChase!


That's a judgement call. I'd still like to know.

Just to add to the discussion, mine was a 20/40 variable watt purchased at Radio Shack for $16! not bad!

[R.Rabbit]

Originally posted by ataxy
you dont need to solder
wow thanx for the info!, i kinda knew about this like 2 days ago,
agiain would a 30watt iron be good?

[Silver]

Just ordered one from Newegg and will see how it works out. Am mating it with an xp2700, corsair xms 3500 on an epox nf2 board. All to be air cooled. BTW, if the pcb is the same then might not the vmods for the 9700 be applicable? Just thinking out loud.

[Kid98]

I believe this one is rated at 35 or so watts. Sorry to not be precise. (it is a no-name brand unit) I filed down the tip so the heat would be contained to a smaller area over the component. If the shorting of the 1 and 2 posts on the GPU works for others if might be a lot better way to go until we find out if software hacking can do the mod too. (YMMV!!!) Also the melting point of reflow solder is lower in most cases than the standard rosin core I was using. I used to build and test larger versions of these components and they don't like much heat. Best guess for success right now is to buy a few extras. I think the glueing the toothpick to the part is not a bad idea either. A hot air pencil would work way better, but I don't have access to one.

Kid

[Tipycol]

Originally posted by ataxy
hey how about no more soldering
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1042058170

What do you guys feel about modding it with glue? It does't require solder, but the conductive glue is something like what Kid98 did, because there is basically no resistance between the pins.

So Kid 98 was the first one here to do this mod, though I guess it'll be a different category when someone does the mod by actually moving the resistor.

[Kid98]

Please understand what I did.... I super glued a toothpick to the smt resistor in order to be able to move it around and not lose it. I put it at an angle so I had more room to hold it and still work with the iron. I managed to kill the resistor, but simply shorting the posts (1 and 2) worked for me. Who knows, the chip could die anytime due to not having that resistor.... But I decided to take that chance. So far, so good.

Kid

[NO LIFE]

So if we did go ahead and reuse the resistor and it happened to be dead would the card die without having a resistor there, or would it mearly not function until you bridge 1/2?

[ataxy]

Originally posted by R.Rabbit

wow thanx for the info!, i kinda knew about this like 2 days ago,
agiain would a 30watt iron be good?
wow thanx you notice

[NO LIFE]

Turns out I have 1 resistor left and now my friend wants to do the mod to like me. I went to www.digikey.com to order some more resistors. When I searched for 6.8 ohm resistors it gave me a bunch of different kinds. Do any of you experienced people know the exact technical name for the resisotrs??? Dont be afraid to go totaly geek talk on me either, I can handle it. :)

-JP

edit: Since they used conductive glue would I be able to just put a line of AS3 between 1 and 2 giving the same effect as conductive glue. Or will that not work?

[james.miller]

Originally posted by TruckChase!

Originally posted by diehlr
With larger components, that statement is pretty valid about the low vs high wattage irons. But when you're desoldering something the size of a pinhead, the amount of energy transferred to the joint to melt the solder will be very small. So I don't think the wattage is as important in this case, as opposed to temperature.
That's a judgement call. I'd still like to know.

I agree with diehlr. at the end of the day, Truchchase, the iron is still set to the same tempreature. weather its a 20,40 or 80watt iron set at 350degrees c, the end result is the same.
Very little energy is used to desolder surface mount. It large components like mosfets and heatsinks where the wattage comes into play.

[NO LIFE]

Hey at least this mod will be giving me a valid reason to yank the stock HSF off right a 9700 caliber card right??? :P

[R.Rabbit]

Originally posted by ataxy

wow thanx you notice
is that sarcasm? I was being sarcastic!, you cant double sarcasm! thats just plain confusing!:D:D

Originally posted by Silver
Just ordered one from Newegg and will see how it works out. Am mating it with an xp2700, corsair xms 3500 on an epox nf2 board. All to be air cooled. BTW, if the pcb is the same then might not the vmods for the 9700 be applicable? Just thinking out loud.

hey this is a great thought! but the ram is different so that might be a problem but the core should wold fine(well it makes since in my head)

some one over @ rage3d did the solderless mod at xbit and he got glitches so he moved the resistor but he still got "checkers"(what there calling it over there) and some other people did the solderless mod and didnt get any checkers at all, so im just gunna do the solderless mod

[ataxy]

uh me noooooooooooooooo :D :D

[R.Rabbit]

Originally posted by ataxy
uh me noooooooooooooooo :D :D
http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/1102/windoze.jpg
aha! whos confused now!!!

[ataxy]

:D

[NO LIFE]

HIJACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)

Hmmm....now I cant decide....

"To Solder Or Not To Solder, That Is The Question"

:p

BTW---Where can I get that conductive glue? Or will AS3 work?

[Creig]

It seems that the main problem people are having is trying to solder that 1.5mm long SMT resistor back on. Rather than using solder, why not use an electrically conductive adhesive such as Permatex® Electrically Conductive Rear Window Defogger Tab Adhesive (http://www.permatex.com/auto/autogr.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=21351)

It's a two part adhesive. Just clean both solder pads with alcohol rub, mix the two parts of the adhesive together and put a small dab on each pad. Then place the resistor back on, make sure it's seated and let cure.

No muss, no fuss.

[NO LIFE]

I dont think adhesive like that will equal using metal to conduct the elctricity, but Im sure it will be pretty damn close. I would say use conductive glue if your not very god at soldering, but if your a pro then resoldering would be the most effective and best looking option.

-JP

[y0ungsta]

What is the best solution to modding the 9500 without having artifacts (checker graphics in 3d mode)?
I know there are two methods no-solder and soldering, but I want some replies from those how tried and post their method with success or failure stories.

Thanks

[R.Rabbit]

Originally posted by y0ungsta
What is the best solution to modding the 9500 without having artifacts (checker graphics in 3d mode)?
I know there are two methods no-solder and soldering, but I want some replies from those how tried and post their method with success or failure stories.

Thanks
its pretty definate that its the chip its self that is dependant on whether you'll havecheckers or not, but id just wait for the software mod, they say that all 4 of there cards were fully successfully modded but im skeptical of this

[W1zzard]

I successed in writing a driver hack that lets your 9500 non-pro run with the 8 rendering pipelines enabled. I tested it on my card (which has been hardware modded before) and got artifacts ..

Now i need volunteers to further test it .. please contact me on icq (3166214) if you're interested.

Thanks

[ataxy]

i would also wait for the software hack

[diehlr]

Hey guys I just tested Wizzard's software driver hack and it worked. My card is a Sapphire 9500 128 MB Non-Pro and here are my results:

Normal driver, stock speed (270/270):

Fill rate (single-texturing): 906.7
Fill rate (multi-texturing): 1078.8

Hacked driver, stock speed (270/270):

Fill rate (single-texturing): 1507.7
Fill rate (multi-texturing): 2119.0

In addition, I have no artifacts whatsoever. My card has Infineon 3.3ns RAM, stock cooling, heatsink has never been removed.

Pipedreams also runs great and is quite a bit smoother..

The time for waiting on RivaTuner is over, folks.

[y0ungsta]

Hey diehlr,
Where did you get the Wizzard software to mod the card? I want to try it when i get my card tomorrow. The Sapphire ati 9500 i'm getting has the same specs i think because some guy ordered at the same place as i did and had the card u just descirbe. I just want to see how well it is on my computer when the 8 pipes are open and on phase-change cooling with agrressive timings/ settings. My aim is skuid6.

Thank you.
Young

[d@rker]

any ... bugs ?

[ataxy]

link to wizzard stuff
http://www.maxdownloads.com/~ian/wizzard/

[R.Rabbit]

wizzard, so theres no difference between your software mod and hardware mod? cus im going to be switching the stock hsf for a 1u any way and i have some cunductive stuff on the way, so i'll just mod it so i can update my drivers whenever i want

[Henry Rollins II]

DOH! What is this? I paid over $400 for a Gigabyte 9700pro less than two months ago. Are they letting people that buy $150 boards have the same performance ?!? RIP OFF I WANT $250 BACK

[mtnbikerjerry]

Over in the [H]ardocp forums, many people are reporting checkerboard backgrounds with all 8 pipelines enabled with either the software/driver modification only, hardware mods(resistor soldering/BIOS flash) or both.

Those few 9500NP owners that were sucessful in the process did not obtain checkerboard backgrounds with various graphics tests just used only the software/driver modifcation. Different drivers to obtain different results were also used from the website below:

http://www.maxdownloads.com/~ian/wizzard/

Here are picutres to confirm this "checkerboarding" effect in UT 2003 and 3DMark 2001 SE as from the Hardocp forums thread below:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?postid=1024262089


Most of the 9500NP owners in the thread up above, had also suggested that as future batches of 9500NP GPU's are released it could reveal better yields, thus lowering the number of potentially deffective pipelines.

Xbitlabs has a more detailed article explaining this below:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1042408060


Anyone here at Overclockers.com obtained good success with these modifcations on the 128mb 9500NP? I would really like to dump my capacitor blown Ti4200 for the 9500NP to save a bundle in the future. Or perhaps I could wait until the FX is realeased from nVidia?

[LiGhTBoY]

Before trying the "hack" I got 52.5fps in dragothic high detail (with 1024x768 + aa 2x + dxt) and after (same settings) I got 91.3fps with NO artifacts.
In the fill rate test , I got 945.9 (single) and 1081.7 (multi) before, and after I got 1536.5 (single) and 2171.3 (multi).
All tests were run with EXACTLY the same settings before and after.

PS
This is a Sapphire 9500 non-pro 128MB =P

[NO LIFE]

PEOPLE!!! READ THIS (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1042408060) NOW! IT EXPLAINS LOTS OF THINGS AND HOW THE HARDWARE MOD IS IN NOW WAY SHAPE OR FORM ANY BETTER THAN A SOFTWARE MOD. PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU PERFORM A PHYSICAL MOD!!

And wizzard. In that link it said dont publish this url. Can I post it in other forums or do you consider that publishing?

-JP

[NO LIFE]

O and lightboy. What "hack" did u use?

[W1zzard]

Originally posted by NO LIFE
PEOPLE!!! READ THIS (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1042408060) NOW! IT EXPLAINS LOTS OF THINGS AND HOW THE HARDWARE MOD IS IN NOW WAY SHAPE OR FORM ANY BETTER THAN A SOFTWARE MOD. PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU PERFORM A PHYSICAL MOD!!

And wizzard. In that link it said dont publish this url. Can I post it in other forums or do you consider that publishing?

-JP

the page has been changed for about a day now and says "go share the link" :)

[NO LIFE]

great

[Tipycol]

Just checking up, so far I have 3 members that have done this mod, Kid98, who modded by bridging with solder, diehlr, and LiGhTBoY, who both used Wizard's Software Hack. Any one else do this mod successfully?

[NO LIFE]

lol....well I got my card, and took the hsf off (it wasnt stuck on hard at all) and used some as3. Once i get windows I will be doing wizzards mod. Get your keyboard ready Tip.

-JP

[LittlePiggie]

I got one comming next paycheck :p. I'mm gonna try the software hack first, and if that fails, the hardware. I am pretty confident in my soldering ability. :) I'll keep you all informed.

[LiGhTBoY]

Originally posted by NO LIFE
O and lightboy. What "hack" did u use?
I used the software (drivers). I'm not ready to risk ruining my card... yet ;-) (*cough* bad soldering skills)

[Creig]

Koolance PC2-C Watercooled case
Epox 8K5A3+
T-Bred A 1800+
512mb Crucial PC2100
ATI Radeon 9500 w/Infineon 3.3ns

1) Stock processor @ 1.53 GHz/stock card....@ 275/540 =.. 9641 3DMarks
2) O/C processor... @ 1.83 GHz/stock card....@ 275/540 = 10627 3DMarks
3) Stock processor @ 1.53 GHz/9700 update @ 275/540 = 11016 3DMarks
4) O/C processor... @ 1.83 GHz/9700 update @ 275/540 = 12716 3DMarks
5) O/C processor... @ 1.83 GHz/9700 update @ 325/600 = 13329 3DMarks


Fillrate 1) 927.9 single/1103.5 multi
Fillrate 2) 928.0 single/1103.4 multi
Fillrate 3) 1538.0 single/2163.4 multi
Fillrate 4) 1548.0 single/2173.5 multi
Fillrate 5) 1749.1 single/2538.2 multi

I stopped at 325/600 only because I ran out of time last night. I'll be replacing the stock heatsink/fan with a Koolance waterblock and keep pushing the core until it cries. :)

[AC Slater]

The hack on my 9500 was succesful! I am now downloading 3d mark and will post my results like Creig after I am done running the tests. Battlefield 1942 looks amazing with the graphics setting on high ;)



Here is my score with 360/300, 12037.

3d score (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5635519)





All I did to this card was run the 9700 script, I haven't done anything else but overclock it. Mine has 3.3ns Infineon ram by the way.

[NO LIFE]

I knew those resisotrs would be small....but when I looked at them in person they were smaller than I had thought. I mean REALLY small. Like 1mm or smaller small.

[hatkeeper]

this is nice, I'm going to get one.....

I wonder what ATI is going to do about this

[NO LIFE]

I would guess start using the 9500 pro pcb....but it will be interesting to see if they even care about such a minority performing these mods.

It could pose problems though when re-selling comapnies become involved. They might buy a bunch of 9500NP's for say $100 each, mod them, and then resell for $300 as 9700 pros. There would be no way to tell your were cheated.

-JP

[TruckChase!]

I got my 9500 yesterday and installed it.... my whole system went to hell before I could even try the mod. As soon as I installed the ATI drivers, I got "Delayed Write Failed" over and over again until my OS was totally corrupted. Now I can't even get XP to install period with the ATI card in. I put my GF 4 Ti4600 back in and everything is fine. As soon as it's ATI'd, Iget bluescreens like crazy.

Epox 8K3A+ bios 2812, Tbred 2200+, 512 MB (2x256MB PC2700) Audigy, Intel 10/100 Pro, WD 120GB, Toshiba DVD-Rom, Aopen CD-RW .. was overclocked, put it to stock to diagnose prob.

I'm gonna try to figure out what the hell is going on tonight, but I thought you guys switching from Nvidia to ATI may wanna be wary.... I lost a bunch of data, and I'm certian it's the fault of the ATI card.

I've found this scenario all over AMDMB.com, and it seems to be caused by one or multiple of the following:

1. LargeSystemCache in registry set to "1"
2. Multiple IDE devices all set for UDMA access.
3. Bad cables

In my case, 3 is false, and 1 was true. I thought that explained it, but now it doesn't apply since I can't even get XP to finish an install. I've tried addressing #2, but that didn't help either, so I'm kinda stumped. So far, I'm not impressed with ATI. :)

I'll post the solution here if/when I find it... if anyone has any suggestions that would be cool. Then I'll post the results of the mod attempt on my 2 9500 saphire 128MB 256bit interface cards with 3.3ns infineon ram.

[NO LIFE]

Did you format the drive? Thats usually the rule of thumb when switching from nvidia to ATI or the other way around. There are many driver interferences bewteen the two cards that can usually only be overcome by a re-format and fresh os install.

Sorry bout da bad new :(

-JP

[TruckChase!]

Yah.. :-/ I did a full format and now I can't even get it to complete the dos portion of the XP install with that ATI card in. It'll either bluescreen or just reboot during heaving I/O activity. (cdrom->HDD)

Thx anywho tho.

[TruckChase!]

Just got my system fixed..... Tried one of my two saphire 128 cards with Rivatuner's patch script.

Checkerboards. :(

Right across the middle of the screen.

[NO LIFE]

The rivatuner thing is out?!?!

[SLO]

Originally posted by NO LIFE
I knew those resisotrs would be small....but when I looked at them in person they were smaller than I had thought. I mean REALLY small. Like 1mm or smaller small.

Haha, those were my thoughts exactly. :D

I am going to try the software hack on my 9500 NP sometime this weekend. Don't know if I trust my soldering abilities on such a small piece of hardware, plus I gather that the software mod has had a higher success rate and is easily reversed.

[LittlePiggie]

Originally posted by TruckChase!
Yah.. :-/ I did a full format and now I can't even get it to complete the dos portion of the XP install with that ATI card in. It'll either bluescreen or just reboot during heaving I/O activity. (cdrom->HDD)

Thx anywho tho.

dude, that is your power supply all the way. look at the symptoms:

1. heavy activity shuts it down (both hd and cdrom drawing juice means the proc and everything else is too.)
2......well, only one telltale.

but that is an indicator of your ps not having the umph it needs to power that power hungry beast.

(did you plug in the molex to the vid card?)

EDIT:

Mine was having random reboots too, so I switched the psu out and it fixed it, so...

[CizMeyeAzz]

I was following these threads for awhile and decided to buy a Radeon 9500np 128mb from NCIX last week friday, its a revision 3 board with Infineon 3.3ns memory. Have done the w1zzard software hack and there are no artifacts at all. I tried q3, nfs3, ut2003, 3dmark2001 and a bunch of ATI demos including pipe dream and car demo. Memory overclocks to 610 and core maxes out on the Rage3d slider to 360mhz without artifacts. The core produces a ton of heat when overclocked to this level. I find my 3dmark scores to be inconsistent, jumping back and forth between 11500 and 12500 at default speeds. Before the hack I got 10100 points so this is a definate improvement.


I am thinking of making it a permanent 9700 by using some rear defogger paint to connect points 1 and 2. I am not comfortable with the thought of desoldering and soldering a 1.5mm resistor that can be easily killed with little heat.

Has anyone had success with modding with a Rear defogger repair kit?


Cheers,


CizMeyeAzz

[<Grisu4>]

Ordered a Connect 3D 128 MB 9500npro - will Riva Tuner suffice to be successful?

[ManOfKnight]

Yes...I am ordering my card today...I was waiting for success stories from people about the software hack before I went out and spent 159 from newegg...I will post my scores in here sometime next week when I get sometime to install and hack the card

-NyTe

[ManOfKnight]

Yes...I am ordering my card today...I was waiting for success stories from people about the software hack before I went out and spent 159 from newegg...I will post my scores in here sometime next week when I get sometime to install and hack the card

-NyTe

[TruckChase!]

Originally posted by CizMeyeAzz
I was following these threads for awhile and decided to buy a Radeon 9500np 128mb from NCIX last week friday, its a revision 3 board with Infineon 3.3ns memory. Have done the w1zzard software hack and there are no artifacts at all.

Please post your 3dmark fill rate scores. Even if there aren't any artifacts that doesn't mean it was successful... I'll explain shortly.

[couchpotato]

Originally posted by CizMeyeAzz
I was following these threads for awhile and decided to buy a Radeon 9500np 128mb from NCIX last week friday, its a revision 3
board with Infineon 3.3ns memory. Have done the w1zzard software hack and there are no artifacts at all. I tried q3, nfs3, ut2003, 3dmark2001 and a bunch of ATI demos including pipe dream and car demo. Memory overclocks to 610 and core maxes out on the Rage3d slider to 360mhz without artifacts. The core produces a ton of heat when overclocked to this level. I find my 3dmark scores to be inconsistent, jumping back and forth between 11500 and 12500 at default speeds. Before the hack I got 10100 points so this is a definate improvement.

CizMeyeAzz

ME -
yes - Radeon 9500np 128mb from overclockers.co.uk
yes- Have done the w1zzard software hack
does it work -yes - but to be real honest I see only one flash
of checks in the dragostic hi-res - I say 99%
no probs in games.

3dmark2001 se
from / to
8730 / 9797
fill single 918/1537
fill multi 1103/2171

no overclocks yet ---

THanks to W1zzard and all his mates

using a tyan 2460 dual xp1600+ MB

[HeXenViRii]

i did the mod but i didnt do a before and after ; does this show i have 8 pipelines now ?

http://chris32123.tripod.com/rad.txt

[Shaotai]

Remember guys (and possibly some gals:p ) that the DX9 demos from ATI are really testing the limits of the card out by using *ALL* the functions originally designed into the card. I have absolutely no artifacts with the 3DMark2001SE, but 3 out of the 4 demos show artifacts using DX9!!

Of course, we're not playing any DX9 games yet, but this mod is definitely not perfect! There probably is a reason they are 9500 cards and not 9700!

Here's another point to add. Maybe the 9500 are missing some other capacitors or resistors on the PCB itself. Does anyone have a 9700 and a 9500 so they can compare? (Although this doesn't really explain why people are also having sucess either...)

[AC Slater]

Well I got my 3d Mark upto 12151.

My fill rates are

Single texture: 1090.7
Multi texture: 1466.2

My RAM on my board maxes out at 303MHz and the GPU can go as high as 378MHz with stock cooling.

[NO LIFE]

MeyeAzz....you dont have to remove the transistor. Just bridge 1-2 and since the resistance is less the electrical current will flow through 1-2 and not 2-3. Xbit explained this. And if you read the articles it will also explain why if the soft mod doesnt work the hard mod wont either. Please read xbit.

My god fedex!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get me my new mbob faster!!!!! Once the nforce2 is up its 9500 modding time!!!!!!!

[TruckChase!]

AC... that's odd. A successful mod should double the mult-texturing fill rate. (as i oulined in http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157567 )

Shaotai.. You may be on to something. I'm wondering if the default voltage for the 9500 differs from the 9700s. That would take yeild into account in seeing the checkerboard patters. Hmmm.... Hopefully I'll be able to complete the voltage mod on both cards tonight to see if that makes any differance. I'm not willing to believe that this many chips just have flat out broken pipelines. It seems to me that fab processes shouldn't work that way, but then again what the hell do I know. I think it stands to reason tho that one or two pipelines being fudged seems awfully odd... I mean if the failure rate is that bad, then what other parts of the chip could possibly be malfunctioning on any of the cards? How do they test each pipeline to it's full extent? And they'd have to do some programming magic to get the driver or board to figure out *which* of the 8 pipelines are working.. and if they just relied on a certian set of pipelines, that would make for a relatively large ammount of wasted chips with 4 working pipelines in the wrong place. If there's just a hair seperating a 8 pipeline chip from a 4 pipeline chip, what's to gaurentee that all 9700s are working properly? Has anyone heard of a 9700 displaying this behavior?

The other odd thing I noticed is how some cards halfway mod. Sounds like AC's has done that... what with the fillrate of 1500. For a successfully modded card the fillrate should be in excess of 2000. I've got one of these cards ( again, as I outline http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157567 here) These cards don't display any artifacts, but their performance boost is tiny compared to the cards that are fully successful. How can that make sense? Say 6 of the 8 pipelines were working... is the chip somehow dynamically disabling 2 of the pipelines and operating on 6? It's not operating on 4, because some things score far in excess of the standard 9500 w/ 4 pipelines, so what the hell is hapening here?

[NO LIFE]

Im sure all the stuff you described can ahppen. But if the 9700's are faulty you simply RMA it. Thats the way it have always been done.

[TruckChase!]

I just found a hardware differance between the 9700s and the 9500 series. I'll explain more later after I look into it a bit more.

[UnLoadeD]

I'm curious to know what this hardware difference is, keep us posted.

I just got my card today from BananaPC.com it's a sapphire with infineon ram. Here are some scores:
Defaults/wizzard Driver.
3dmark 10,951/13,188
game1-lo 141/158
game1-hi 61/62
game2-lo 185/258
game2-hi 105/135
game3-lo 163/177
game3-hi 77/79
nature 60/89

fill rate:
single 927/1532
multi 1103/2171

system:
Epox 8k5a2+, XP1600+ @1805mhz(190x9.5) 2.1v watercooled
XMS PC3200 256mb (2-2-2-5) +.10v C:=2x60G Raid 0

I'm not getting any aftifacts yet, but all above was done with DX8.1 on XP Pro w/SP1. I'm downloading DX9 right now and some of the ati demos. I'll post a followup after I goto DX9.

peace.
unloaded

ps: no oc on the vid card yet, after done testing I'll flash bios or try unwinder's tools.
pss: i think only having 256 ram is hurting my fill rates and hi res scores.

[UnLoadeD]

OK, got DX9 installed and all the demos look great, I'm a happy chappy! Thanx wizzard and all the rest!

peace.
unloaded

[CizMeyeAzz]

TruckChase!
Here are my 3dmark scores,

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5647130


My fillrate has always been good but my scores are really inconsistent. My 3Dmark scores were much more consistent with my Radeon 8500.


NO LIFE,

Thanks, I checked out the Xbit article, though my concern now is that my Rear Defogger grid repair kit my not be as electrically conductive as the conductive glue they used. If my Rear Defogger repair kit provides more resistance than the resistor, all my 8 pipelines wont open up because electricity flows with the least restrictive path. I guess the only way to find out is to try it.


Cheers,


CizMeyeAzz

[TruckChase!]

Originally posted by TruckChase!
Shaotai.. You may be on to something. I'm wondering if the default voltage for the 9500 differs from the 9700s. That would take yeild into account in seeing the checkerboard patters.

heh... quoting myself. I found out that at least the core voltage on the 9500 series is the same as the 9700. So much for that theory. Gonna try the volt mod now.

[HeXenViRii]

hmm , i get small checkerboards in only the bear dx9 demo and any object in any game that is a tree .... any get simialr :D

[<Grisu4>]

Did anyone try only the latest Rivatuner to activate 256bit/8pipes on the R9500np?
If not could you please try out?

[AC Slater]

Grisu4, it is solely dependant on the card if it will work. I have done the Rivatuner and w1zzards way and my card will not get the correct fill rates. The Rivatuner way is super easy, and I wish my card would comply, but it won't on mine.

[<Grisu4>]

Originally posted by AC Slater
Grisu4, it is solely dependant on the card if it will work. I have done the Rivatuner and w1zzards way and my card will not get the correct fill rates. The Rivatuner way is super easy, and I wish my card would comply, but it won't on mine.

Did you try conecting the pins with conductive glue already - or do you still think about RMA?

btw I see that's you're running a Seagate RAID (0 or 1?). Do you use the onboard RAID (SIlicon Image or HPT372?) or a PCI card? How are your HDTach scores?

[R.Rabbit]

Originally posted by AC Slater
Grisu4, it is solely dependant on the card if it will work. I have done the Rivatuner and w1zzards way and my card will not get the correct fill rates. The Rivatuner way is super easy, and I wish my card would comply, but it won't on mine.
did you flah the card with a 9700 bios yet?

[HeXenViRii]

is there a way to only enable 6 pipelines and see what happens ? :D

[TruckChase!]

Originally posted by HeXenViRii
is there a way to only enable 6 pipelines and see what happens ? :D


Unfortunately no, not that I know of at least... all these hacks are doing is tricking the driver into thinking the card is a 9700. The hacks themselves aren't responsible for "opening up" the other 4 pipes, they just change the device ID.

[NO LIFE]

MeyeAzz!!!

You missing the point here man lol. If you have done the soft mod and you get bad results doing the physical mod will only void your warranty. The reults will be exactly the same. And where can I get riva guys?

[TruckChase!]

Originally posted by NO LIFE
MeyeAzz!!!

If you have done the soft mod and you get bad results doing the physical mod will only void your warranty. The reults will be exactly the same. And where can I get riva guys?


Exactly.
&
www.guru3d.com -> look for "rivatuner" on the left hand side.

[D2DM]

Anyone done a succesfull voltagemod on r9500?

resistor info:
http://www.williamson-labs.com/resistors.htm

I read that 8k is needed for 1.6V.
Does that mean a fixxed one +/- 8000 Ohm value?
(And how would one look like/Colorcode?)


voltmod:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=22&page=1

[TruckChase!]

I did it, no affect to the checkerboards.

PS, just get a 10k Pot if you still plan on doing the volt mod.

[Neo_peter]

My friend downloaded the software hack and flashed his bios, and everything's fine... Maybe your case where you get checkboard is because it simply didn't work to begin with... Cause you also had it not working when you first installed it right? maybe it shorted something...

[CizMeyeAzz]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough on my 2 posts in the last 2 pages of this thread.

My Radeon9500 works great with NO artifacts with the soft mod. My concern is that using the Rear defogger repair kit might provide too much resistance for the current to change it's path of flow, thus resulting in the device id being unchanged and the extra 4 pipelines still being disabled.

Does a Rear Defogger repair kit act like a resistor or will it allow the current to flow freely?

thanx in advance

[Digital Pimp]

rear window defogger is usually vrey conductive and will achieve the effect you want.

Digital

[augustwest]

if the software mod works then why go to the trouble?

[CizMeyeAzz]

Cool:)

Thanks Digital Pimp,

I'll give it a shot over the weekend and hopefully all should go well.

Augustwest,

I just wanna make it a permanent 9700, and void the warranty:D

I'll be keeping this card for quite some time and don't want to bother with the software hacks,


Cheers,


CizMeyeAzz

[WaZZaBi]

I just recently purchased a Sapphire Radeon 9500np 128mb and soft hacked it as well with Wizzards... everything runs fine for me... i guess I'm lucky this time... 3d mark from 9800 to 11000 (approx) this is with stock clock on my system:

Athlon XP 1900+ (palimino) @ 1.67 Ghz
512 meg MaxKing PC2100

I'm going to try the ATI DX9 demos and post afterwards... as well... anyone know what to use to OC the Radeon clock? as of december 01, 2002 all the software tweakers could not change the Radeon 9500 clock without doing a 9700 bios flash... as told from a web site I surfed to... Thanx

!!!WaZZaBi!!!

[WaZZaBi]

I just tested out all the DirectX 9 demos and all seems fine and well I guess I got a prefectly good R300 chip served to supply the Radeon 9500 demand :D but... I myself do not know exactly what counts as an artifact... I don't see blue dot or any checkerboard design... but I do see the wire frames that the textures are drawn on occasionally when rotated a certain way... sort of like looking at 3D objects at a bad angle... the texture doesn't cover the whole object and it seems like there is a small see through "hole" that you can see the wire frame from within...
is this an artifact or is that just texture not covering at a bad angle...

!!!WaZZaBi!!!

[Digital Pimp]

if you are looking at a landscape and dip the camera below the ground you will get the black stuff that looks like space, that is normal

Digital

[R.Rabbit]

hey where are you guys getting the dx9 demos?, i cant find them on ati.com
Originally posted by HeXenViRii
http://www.ati.com/developer/demos/r9700.html
thanx!:D :D

[HeXenViRii]

http://www.ati.com/developer/demos/r9700.html

[AC Slater]

WaZZabi what are your fill rate scores on 3dmark?

[<Grisu4>]

Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)
(MTexels/s) 1771.0

Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing)
(MTexels/s) 2487.9

These are mine ....
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5660688

[WaZZaBi]

before...

Fill Rate (Single-Texturing) 891.4 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing) 1107.3 MTexels/s
(270/270)

3DMark2001SE score = 9800 (approx)

After...

Fill Rate (Single-Texturing) 1527.9 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing) 2146.2 MTexels/s
(270/270)

3DMark2001SE score = 11000 (approx)

and some fun...

Fill Rate (Single-Texturing) 1682.1 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing) 2339.5 MTexels/s
(300/300)

3DMark2001SE score = 11500 (approx)

Unfortunately it is obvious that my scores are held back greatly by my processor... I'm waiting for my 512meg MaxKing PC2700 to arrive to see if I can push my 1900+ any farther... I've seen that it is using a 2100+ palimino core before thoroughbred took over...
forgot the stepping code... too lazy to remove sink heh... :D

[UnLoadeD]

Well something strange happened to me tonight. I've been running my 9500np with wizzard's drives and o/c'd with rivatuner 350/300. I havent had any troubles or artifacts. btw I used the 92c drivers of wizzard. I never installed ATI's control panel until tonight. I installed it thinking I might wanna use second monitor or TV outs. After installing strange things started happening...screen would blink dark opening a menu, black refresh line scroll down the screen sometimes, a hard crash opening IE, none of my openGL games will run... So I uninstalled control panel, reboot, same troubles. Uninstalled driver, reboot, reinstall drivers, everything back to normal. Anyway I was wondering if anybody else has had these troubles? I'm thinking now that the driver hacks are great for testing if you got a good card, but a lot of features can't be had using this method. I'm planning on doing the defogger/bios mod now and using unhacked drivers. I'd planned on doing this eventually so I wouldn't haveta wait on new versions of drivers being hacked. Props still go out to wizzard and unwinder, but I'm gonna go with warp's setup. I'll post results on all the extra functionality after mods.

peace.
unloaded

[WaZZaBi]

I don't know if this helps ya but when I first tried the soft mod I had already installed the 92c drivers and control panel for winXP and then when I tried to reinstall the 92c hacked drivers when I rebooted the drivers themselves would fail and winXP had to replace it with a generic VGA driver... being very annoyed with the 60Hz refresh I went back to the old original drivers without even doing any testing cuz it was pretty obvious that the 92c drivers do not work that well and pretty much after reading the posts may be one of the reasons why peoples first trys with soft hack didn't work... I use the 93c drivers + hack now that are on wizzard's site and they work perfectly including control panel...

[Black_Paladin]

Hello everyone,

I too got on the bandwagon like you to try the Radeon 9500 hack. I like tinkering with things and therefore couldn't resist ordering a Radeon 9500 Sapphire 128MB OEM card from Newegg last week. The card arrived on Friday.

First thing I did when I got the card was to run a couple games to see if the card was running OK. It seemed to function fine. I then ran 3dmark 2001 SE and got a 3D Mark score of about 11780. This didn't impress me at all honestly because my Radeon 8500 running at 310Mhz core / 300Mhz memory was giving me almost the same exact score. Granted, the 9500 can take over the 8500 when overclocked but believe me, the fps difference in games is not significantly different even with an overclocked 9500 than a 8500.

OK, it was then time to perform the conversion hack. Just like you guys, I also had to spend some hours to get the thing to work but it worked fine in the end. For those of you still having problems. I found out that the guaranteed way to get the hack to work is to follow these steps:

1-Uninstall ATI control panel from Windows Add/Remove programs. Do NOT reboot.

2-Uninstall ATI Display driver from Windows Add/Remove programs. Do NOT reboot.

3-Put the setup files for the driver of your choice to install into a temporary directory on your hard disk. To do this, run the executable file to install the driver, when the installer asks you where you want to put the setup files on your hard disk, point to a temporary folder like I mentioned above and when the ACTUAL installation screen pops up after this, just cancel. DO NOT install the drivers yet. All we did so far is to extract the setup files from the single installation file you download from ATI's website or whereever to a temporary folder on your hard disk.

4-Make a search for the ati2mtag.sys file on your entire hard disk (all partitions) . A copy should be found under Windows\System32\Drivers. Right click on this file from the search window and choose copy. Now make a search for the ati2mtag,sy_ file. This file should be located in a subfolder under the temporary folder where you copied the setup files earlier. Go to this folder. Right click any empty area in this folder and choose paste. We have now copied the ati2mtag.sys file from Windows\System32 folder to the folder where you have the ati2mtag.sy_ file so they are both in the same place. Now make another search for the ati2mtag.sys file on your har disk. DELETE ALL copies of this file except the one you just copied to your temporary folder. So now the ati2mtag.sys file is ONLY located in your temporary folder and nowhere else.

5-Run the RivaTuner script to do the conversion hack. When the script asks you for the ati2mtag.sys file, point to the subfolder under your temporary folder where your setup files are. Patch the file that is in this folder. We have now patched the file we had copied from the Windows\System32 folder. Run the Riva Tuner script again. This time, for the file type, choose the ati2mtag.sy_ file and again point to the same folder that you just did. Now, patch the ati2mtag.sy_ file.

6-OK, now reboot.

7-When you reboot, Windows will ask you for the installation files for your graphics card. DON'T let windows install drivers automatically for you. Choose the "Install from a list of specific location" option and then point to the temporary folder where you put your installation files. Here, you might need to point to a subfolder in your temporary folder for Windows to find the .inf files which identifies your adapter. When this is done, windows will start installing the drivers and tell you that the driver you are installing is not certified. This is GOOD! Choose "continue anyway". When the drivers completes installing, you should be prompted to to do the same thing again, this time for the "secondary display". This is fine too, just do the exact same thing you did a moment ago and point to your temporary folder where the installation setup files are. When the "secondary display" is also installed you should be good to go. If you are prompted to restart, do so but in my case I don't believe I had to.

To find out if this worked, go to your display properties, go to the settings tab and the click the advanced button here. From there, click on the adapter tab and you should see Radeon 9700 for the cchip type and NOT Radeon 9500.

If this didn't work for you, I don't know what to say! I don't think the instructions I wrote could be more detailed. If you follow them to the letter, the conversion hack should work.

So, this was the good news. The hack by all means works. NOW THE BAD NEWS:

After I converted my Radeon 9500 non pro to Radeon 9700, first thing I did was to run 3dmark 2001 SE. I watched all screens carefully looking for artifacts and saw none. No checkerboards, no white dots, everything looked great. My 3D mark score went up al the way close to 14xxx from the 11780 I was getting earlier. This with the default core clock speed of 277Mhz and memory speed of 270Mhz. I decided to overclock the card some and was able to take the core up to 380Mhz and memory up to 300Mhz. Pretty sweet eh? Funny thing is Powerstip wouldn't let me go above 380Mhz for the core so this card might reach a higher core speed. (This is after I edited the pstrip.ini to alter the defaults so that I can move the slider bar higher). I ran 3DMark 2001 SE again. This time almost 16000 3Dmarks and still no artifacts whatsoever.

So if you read this far, you must now be wondering what the bad news is. After all everyhing sounds great so far right?

That's what I thought but it turned out that not everything is great. I fired up Soldier of furtune 2 and guess what? I started seeing a whole lot of shiny strange lines on some parts of the map. I then ran Urban terror which is a Quake 3 mod and guess what? I saw some flashing lines on some trees this time. I then ran some other games, this time directx ones. All in all. here is a list of the things I ran and my results:

1- ALL ATI DEMOS (Radeon 9700 and Radeon 8500 demos) NO artifacts whatsoever anywhere.
2-Unreal Tournament 2003 (DirectX) No artifacts anywhere.
3-Warcraft III (DirectX) No artifacts anywhere.
4-Medal of Honor (OpenGL) Didn't see any artifacts but didn't play too much.
5-Soldier of furtune 2 (OpenGL). Lots of artifacts.
4-Urban terror (OpenGL) Lots of artifacts.

SO THE SUMMARY OF THIS LONG POST IS THIS: IF YOU DID THE HACK AND DIDN'T GET ANY CHECKERBOARD ARTIFACTS LIKE OTHER PEOPLE AND EVEN IF ALL YOUR DIRECTX STUFF LOOKED GREAT, YOUR CARD MIGHT STILL BE DEFECTIVE IN ANOTHER WAY. In my case the defects ONLY showed up in OpenGL games but not even all OpenGL games (Medal of Honor didn't show any artifacts).

The moral of the story here is don't get too excited if your mod works and you don't see any artifacts in 3DMark 2001. It would seem that pipeline defects can present themselves in different ways. I would really like to hear from the people who say that their mod went totally successful if all of their OpenGL games look OK. Some people who are saying that everything is looking great might end up finding out that there are some artifacts in certain games like I did.

I bought this card from Newegg for $160 and now it is going back. I have to pay the shipping for RMA and a %15 restocking fee. Worth the price of an adventure I guess... Just don't have your hopes up for this mod. It seems that 7 out of every 10 card is defective in some way. This makes sense actually because I had read an article some time ago that the high end video cards had extremely low yields which contributed into their sky-high prices. This was certainly true for the Radeon 9700 Pros when ATI started producing them so there were a whole lot of junk for ATI initially which are now being sold to us as Radeon 9500's unfortunately. :( :(

[tseongsun]

Of the people doing the hack and getting artifacts, how many are using ramsinks?

I really need a new vidcard (I have a GF2-gts) and this seems like a pretty sweet deal considering the 9700 pro is like $400, but I dont' want it if it has artifacts all over the place :(

[<Grisu4>]

I didn't think that I need a new card, but the mod made me interesting ....

With my old Ti200 I played NFSHP2 in 1024x768 without AA/AF and it looked nice - but now it's looking very smooth with full AA/AF @1280x960 ..... wow.

[UnLoadeD]

Black_Paladin---did you try lowering your overclock (I had to drop my mem to 297)? It is possible that is whats causing the artifacts in some of your games. Also what is gonna be your stated reason for RMA-ing the card? If they test it out when they get it back (with unhacked drivers) they won't find anything wrong with it. And lastly I think you have it backwards saying 7 out of 10 are defective, I've read where 30% seem to be defective, making 7 out of 10 successful mods.

Nice step by step guide on doing the script. Also if you lower your overclock a bit and find that it solves your problems, somebody might be interested in buying it from you, rather than rolling the dice.

peace.
unloaded

[AlexG]

BP, you didn't mention if the card was still OC when you saw the artifacts? You probably checked for this but I had to ask since OC causes artifacts for sure and they don't always show up until the card heats up.

[BigJk-47]

LOL that wont stop me.Im gonna do it too.

[Shaotai]

I think I'm clocked around 320/305 or something similar to that and I'm getting artifacts in CS now.. (in dark tunnels, a purple, checkered dot or square will show up)...

Also, when I try the 9700 demo of the painting, all I get is a black screen, but in the corner, I can clearly seel the radeon 9700 logo on the bottom right. I can also hit esc and get the menu to pop up, but I don't see the demo at all! I worked before too! This was after "burning" in the system running 3dmark in a loop or running the HOCP UT2k3 bench marks in a loop and then running the demo...
Definetly some weird stuff is happening now to my system. I'll have to try clocking it down a bit and also experiment with some other settings. (I recently turned on AA/AF so that may have something to do with it, and also had setup my h20 system and was experimenting with better Overclocking speeds....):)

[ManOfKnight]

shaotai did that fix your problem...clocking it down?

[Black_Paladin]

This is a post that I posted on AMDForums.com yesterday night, let me post it here too and then I'll post an update, there is some progress on the problems:

For the problem with artifacts, I unfortunately found out that it is not related to overclocking. I tried resetting my clocks to their defaults and I even tried underclocking the memory and the core clocks to see if anything would improve but no change.

I did however, discover something. As I had typed in my previous post, the artifacts I am getting are only in some OpenGL games and they were not in the form of checkerboards. Not ready to give up on this card yet, I started making some research on this. I couldn't really find any explanation to my defects but I did read 2 articles on some forums where some people said they managed to get rid of their minor artifacts by disabling either HyperZ or hierarchical Z ( I can't remember which). Well, since I had no ideas myself on how to try troubleshooting this, I took these 2 people's advice and started trying to modify any setting I could find about Z buffers and Z bit depth settings. I first tried using the Rage 3DTweak program which has a whole bunch of settings and looks really nice. Unfortunately, I discovered that the settings you change in Rage 3D Tweak do not actually change anything in any program. This might be because the program is designed for Win 9x and therefore the registry entries the program is chaging are probably wrong ones for Windows XP.

I then tried changing the force Z-buffer depth option under the ATI control panel\OpenGL tab\Compatibility settings to "Force 16-bit Z buffer" and then guess what happened? MY ARTIFACTS TURNED INTO CHECKERBOARDS!!!!

What does this mean then? I am not sure really but it does seem like this problem might not be the fault of the pipelines after all. Since there are a lot of people with the checkerboard problem, this might be a driver issue or even if the problem is with the pipelines then a fix could potentially be implemented with a modified driver. I wish we could tell this to the Unwinder guy who wrote the script for this mod. I haven't lost my failth in this mod yet.

One interesting thing to note here is this. Before I changed my Z-buffer bit depth to 16-bit, It was running at 24 bit and I was seeing some lines on some areas. These lines kinda looked like zig-zigs and they changed angles as I changed my position. On 16 bit Z buffer depth, I saw the checkerboards on ENTIRE AREAS. For example with 24 bit z buffer I would see some lines going through a wall but with 16 bit Z buffer I see the WHOLE WALL covered with checkerboards, not just parts of it. The significance of this is that the artifacts look better and much less on 24 bit z buffer. Now WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS TO TRY 32 BIT Z BUFFER DEPTH. If I could enable 32 bit Z buffer, this MIGHT get rid of the artifacts completely. All I need now is a registry setting to change or a program to enable 32 bit buffer. Rage 3D Tweak has a setting for this but none of Rage 3D Tweak's settings work so that's out the window. I need another program that works under Windows XP that can change the Z buffer depth. This artifacting problem definately has something to di with it. I know that it is possible to enable 32 bit z buffer depth on a Radeon 9700 card as even my Radeon 8500 runs with 32 bit Z buffer. As a matter of fact I wonder why the drivers don't default to 32bit Z buffer??

My theory on this problem is now this: I think that depending on the pipeline, there is a marking somewhere that creates these artifacts. For example, let's say that ATI at the factory (or the drivers) somehow mark a particular pipeline and this pipeline, when in use, can create artifacts in certain situations. In all situations though, one way or the other, these artifacts turn out to be checkerboards. Some people see the checkboards in 3DMarks demos though while others see them in different demos\applications\games. This might be becase people have different pipelines marked. This is most definately a complicated problem and most probably what I'm saying is wrong but I do believe the checkboard problem has something to do with Hyper Z or z buffer depth.

[Black_Paladin]

OK, and this is today:

OK, update on the glitches. I have been playin with the Radeonater program that I downloaded from Rage3D.com. It is a nice program. The important thing is that the changes you make to the settings do actually take effect in Windows XP unlike other programs. With the Radeonator, I made the artifacts go away albeit in a very strange way... To make them go away, I have to turn on anti-aliasing to 4x. This is strange as I had set anti-aliasing all the way to 6X from ATI control panel before and it had made no difference. This must mean that anti aliasing only in conjunction with some other setting that I changed in Radeonator did this. Now I am trying to isolate this setting. There is definately progress here. Maybe I'll keep this card.
In urban terror, I found out that the only way to get rid of the artifacts is to change lightmap to vertex. This is rather strange as when I tried Quake 3 original with lightmap turned on, no artifacts anywhere. It's just Urban Terror that doesn't like the lightmap.
All in all settings CAN make the artifacts go away at least. The question is how flexible the settings can be. I would rather not be forced to play some games at 4x anti-aliasing. I would like to have the option to turn that down. If I can find another setting that doesn't effect performance as much as anti-aliasing to turn off or turn on, that will be nice.

Still haven't found an option to FORCE 32 bit z bufer depth. That's what I need. It might take care of all this!

Note: I do have a reason to RMA this card if I choose to do so. In 9500 mod without the hack, I see some strange things in some games still. They are minor things but I can make people fire up soldier of fortune and as soon the scren comes up before saying loading, I think it should say something like "initializing" at the bottom but all I see is some garbage. So take note, I might actually have a defective Radeon 9500 as a Radeon 9500!! There are those too, you know. :(