A little help for an HTPC water-cooling solution?

Hi guys, I’m new here, and I just found out that my PC annoy me

Ok, I’m a gamer and I tend to be a videophile/audiophile too, so I want big quality picture and high frame rate, so I need performances, but performances normally come with big noise, but I heard about a solution: water cooling!

Here is the thing; I currently have a big NOISY beige box that contains a XP 1700+ with an MSI Geforce4 Ti 4200. I would like to quiet that thing up for a temporary solution, since I know that in about 6 months I will be building my new Home Theater PC. I plan to equip my next PC with the AMD 64-bit CPU and the GeForceFX GPU. I want a temporary solution that will be able to cool both my current PC and my next, see the thing?

I’ve been searching info about water-cooling on the web for about a month, and I’ve learned a lot of thing, but I’m still very newb in the domain. I still need a little help before ordering all those components... here is what I’ve managed to find so far:

CPU water block - Dagen Den MAZE 3 – 42.00$
GPU water block - Dagen Den – 45.00$
Pump - Eheim 1048 – 57.00$
Thermal paste - Arctic Silver 3 – 8.00$
Red Line WaterWetter 12oz – 7.50$
Tygon R-3603 Lab Grade 1/2' Tubing (10 feet) – 29.00$
Radiator - ??? - ??.??$
Tube T-Junction – 1.75$
Note: I will use ½ inch ID tubing everywhere.

TOTAL (so far): 190.25 USD
(All those prices are from the DagenDen online store)

My Qs:

http://dangerden.com/mall/maze3.asp

What do you recommend between the MAZE3 and the MAZE3SHD?

I’m also confused with all those option boxes: Processor Style, Tops, Fitting Type, Extra AMD Holes, O-ring, Mounting Hardware, Socket Screw Wrench.

What would you recommend me about those options (My current mobo is an Epox 8KHA+)?

After that, there is the pump power needed, does the 1048 will be powerful enough (money isn’t really a big issue, but noise IS)?

I’m also thinking about making an external cooling fanless large radiator/pump system (like 3 feet away from the computer), witch pump/radiator combo would you recommend for that kind of setup?

Final note: I’m primary looking for silence, performance is a bonus (no need for extreme over clocking).

EDIT: Oh ya, I heard that the Scoop radiator was a very good silent/powerful solution, anybody could tell me where I can find/buy a fanless Scoop rad? Tx.

Any info/link would be appreciated.

Thanx in advance.

~ Mercury

Hi friend and welcome to the forums.
This is a nice rig. Just pic a heatercore and a shroud (or order one at dtek) and will be a great wc.
Personally i would get a TC4 or if you can afford, a white watter little river.

Hehe, well I was think of getting that radiator (http://www.teamster469.com/images/PC030043.JPG ), but I can’t manage to find a place where they sell it, so I will probably buy that one (http://dtekcustoms.safeshopper.com/19/44.htm?956 ) with a Panaflo 120mm.

The TC4, you are probably talking about that one (http://dtekcustoms.safeshopper.com/18/150.htm?956 ), could explain why you would chose that one? Cause I’m really lost in that w-b war...

And the Water Rivers are Cathar’s w-block, right? (http://www.thesuperfreak.com/wc_thread/white water.jpg )
If so, I would rather invest that extra money in the silence department rather then having my CPU a few degrees lower.

Quick Q: What are O-rings?

O-rings are rings made of rubber or silicon (other materials are used in making these rubber and silicon seem to be the most popular) they are usually used to keep a liquid from going where it doesnt belong

If you look at the pic of the dd maze 3 the o-ring is the black oval ring in the water block. It provides an even seal between the acrylic(sp) and copper.


BTW, i use the maze 3 and it works wonders! I run temps around 27c idle 31-32c load.

Hey mercury length. Welcome to the forums. The rad and cathars block can be had here.

No problems with tue maze 3 block. It is a great block. Personally I got better results with the tc4 than the maze 3, and i dont like poly tops. My tc4 had the top broken....

whatever you get, I would recommend a metal top. Either copper or anodized aluminum. Although some have been OK, the majority of plastic tops will crack over time, possibly causing leaks.

Ya! Damn I love this forum! (even if I’ve been here for only one day) Tx guys.

Thanx Wonderboy, for the clarification about the O-ring, but now I wonder why I would need an “extra” O-ring…

Fragn’stein, thanx for the link. I’m an happy Merc now

Overbrazil, when you say “poly” top, do you mean “polish” or “reflective”? (sorry for the term, I’m French)

***

OK, let’s talk fanless, does it could be possible with a XLR rad (outside mounted)? What kind of results that would give me?

Or I would like a “silent-freak” review about the XLR-rad + Scoup_2.0 + 2X120mm fan, how much noise those fans produced when mounted on the rad? Can I run ‘em at 7V or even at 5V and still have good results (<45C)?

***

Quick Qs about the w-blocks:

A lucite top is a transparent top, right?

What do you recommend for the fittings material: Chrome, Polypropylene or Brass?

And, it might be stupid, but I’ve seen an installation tutorial for the MAZE3, and they are bolting the block into the mobo, do I have to make those holes? Or they are already there (Epox 8KHA+)?

Thanx for making me less newb.

1. I wouldn't run fanless. a 120mm fan running at 7V is almost silent, and will give you good performance, too. 5V may not be enough voltage to run the fan, but you can try.

2. Lucite is transparent. If you go with lucite, i would recommend polypropylene barbs. I would actually recommend the copper top block with brass barbs the highest, however.

3. The 8kha+ has the 4 holes in the mobo already. I have one and am running a WB on it right now using the 4 hole mounting.

and your welcome. I was once a newbie, too.

sorry, poly top is a clear top, here in Brazil we call policarbonato. Like Neo said the possibility of cracking the top is real. Brass or chrome is also good, see no difference between them.
[]s

NeoMoses:

1. Ok, I heard that 7V was silent “enough” (but that’s subjective), so I would try myself and see what I can do, hehe. I got to plug my two 120mm fans in my PSU right? But how can I make it 7V (or 12V)?

2. Ok, I’m going copper top! But why brass barbs over chromes?

3. Good, tx for the info.

post by NeoMoses
and your welcome. I was once a newbie, too.

Click to expand...

Sure thing

I have a Q about the White Water River: why three barbs? I understand that there is 1 input and 2 outputs, but how does that work, and what are the advantages to this?

Do I will get enough flow rate with the 1048? Does the 1250 is similar if we are only talking about fan noise (very important)?

I appreciated all your answers guys. Really that’s helping

Oh yeah, I plan to buy 2 120mm panaflo fans (low speed, 68.9 CFM), and I'll run 'em at 7V or 5V, does it will suffice?

I don't get people who say a 120mm fan is silent, at any volts (no offence, though, guys ). Truely, though, is a 120mm panaflo @ 7 volts quieter than your CPU/GPU/NB HSFs? No doubt. Would you want to watch a movie with it on? HELLA no. For silent, you have several options for the rad.

1) Large bucket. ~5 gallons, stick the pump in it; temps will be OK. Mine usually level off around 30 idle, but I'm using a smaller bucket. [pic]
2) Home made rad. Gerwin did a fantastic job. I'll have pics of mine tommorow(need more TUBIN, laddy!!). [pic]
3) Very large rad. Also possibily two-four HCs.[pic] [pic]
4) Moving the rad away from the computer. I guess BladeRunner could be an example of this, although I don't know how many people bury propane tanks under their houses . More common, though, I've seen people drop some tubing into their basement, and hook the rad with two huge fans up there, where you can't hear it. Something like that.

So, if going for silence, whichever path you choose will leave you with two noise sources. 1: the PSU fan- get a Panaflo L1A and 7 volt it. Not SILENT, but pretty damn quiet. You could always WC your PSU, but that's another thread. And 2: the pump. DEFIENTLY get the Eheim, there as silent as it gets.

My final advice for you: Pick whichever passive rad you like, but use it only for your XP1700+. If this is temporary, get a TC4, the Eheim, and leave it at that. The clawhammers should be the same, but the FX cards (if I'm not mistaken) will have different holes than your 4200. For 6 months, get a Zalman VGA HeatPipe, and a passive NB HS. This will lessen restriciton in your system, and also put less heat in your loop. When you upgrade, you can get a NB & GF FX block if you feel like it.

Now you'll notice all these options do indeed get messy. No longer a neat little beige box, but some ugly looking junk. For neatness, you could go ahead and try to do buissness with Deltatronics, but brush up on your German, I'm not even sure they sell outside EU. If you did, you'd be the first and I'd have to ask you to tell us how it goes!!

Finally-baby steps. Get your GF4 & NB squared away with the Zalman stuff. Get your WB of choice, a powerfull pump, some tygon, an 80mm Panaflo for you PSU, and a 5 gallon bucket from HD (I believe they're $2.99?). Hook it all up, and brain bust on a better, neater, way. Don't rush it.

Lordy I sure did babble on!!

Good luck, and if you have any questions just ask away

Oh-oh ya!

post by Axle
Would you want to watch a movie with it on? HELLA no.

Click to expand...

That sentence really bugs me

That solution is really neat: http://www.low-noise.de/forum/upload/ct100/pc-rueckseite.jpg
That’s EXACTLY what I wanted in the first place, but where do I get those kind of radiator? And what kind of pump do I need to make the water flow all over that beast?

I don’t get this one? (http://users.rcn.com/deuson.1/IMG_0688.jpg ) You have your rad and your pump in that bucket (full of cold water)? Or it’s a shower like WC system (thus you have to deal with humidity)?

post by Axle
1: the PSU fan- get a Panaflo L1A and 7 volt it. Not SILENT, but pretty damn quiet.

Click to expand...

You mean, replacing the actual fan of my current PSU by a Panaflo L1A @ 7V? Are you sure that it will suffice to cool down the PSU (Antec 300W)?

http://www.sharkacorp.com/cgi-bin/TLSstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=zmnb32j
That one is good idea too

You were well started there, but what about the HDD?

Thanx for all your advice.

I suggested brass barbs because they would match the all-copper block better (IMO). No other reason.

the radiator you pictured above looks like one from www.jpiperformance.com

JML said:

the radiator you pictured above looks like one from www.jpiperformance.com

Click to expand...

Witch with witch?

or.. you could do some huge *** enclosure for the pc. (not really huge ***, it would just have to be bigger than the case/parts you got in it and enough space for muffling the sound on the airpaths)

and have the fans that move air through that enclosere behind few curves/dampened corners so they wouldnt be audible(sp?) to the room.

i've been thinking of doing something like this big enough for 2 comps, my friend's dad is part owner in a place where they got a huge *** laser good for cutting plywood.. i would just have to get hold of some cad software and draw it, fix up some time there and cut it and then just assemble , they've made some boxes for presents there that would be just what i'd like if done just a bit bigger and different dimensions(..aaand i could get it probably for free too).



the open bucket idea isn't bad though, just as good as it gets easily quietely. i got a ~25-30liter bucket.. if i got a ~15cm 24v fan running at 12v over(just circulating around) it it keeps at room temp, if i take the fan off it will jump to ~30c water temp.. and this isn't 'care free'. you have to keep adding the water, and occasionally do a flush.

but the psu's&hd's in my 2 computers are running me wild.. and probably in my future comps too.. that's why i'm planning that enclosure with muffled in/out's. maybe a cube of somesort, i'd like to have easy access to the comps still..



just damping the case does wonders through, and that panaflo at 7v would probably be enough to cool that psu.

1-probably quite a large pump. I don't really know, but I'd guess something around 500-900 GPH.
2-I have no rad, that bucket was it Just a bucket full of water with the pump in it..but like glass said it wasn't care free. The temps just rose, and rose, and rose if left on long enough. I think with a larger bucket they'd even out a bit, but I'm not sure. That's why I ditched it.
3-Well, I don't know about your PSU, but my 400watt Sparkle does fine with a Pana. 1.2 t-bird, Ti4200, Vanta vid, SB Live, LAN, WinTV, 1HD, 2CDs, and 1024DDR2100..it's got a load.
4-HD? I can't see a reason for WCing your HDs unless there REAL hot, or you want to. My 'Super Quiet' Seagate Barracude IV 80GB is almost cool to the touch. If you're worried, I'd just look at one of the Smart Drive enclosers...they're pricy, but will keep your HD cool and quiet w/o cutting into your WCing flow, temps, etc.

I believe they're reviewed on silentpcreview.com.

I see, about this open bucket solution, does it boost the humidity level? What pump would recommend me for this solution?

Does anyone have even tried a big *** heater-core solution like shown above? If so, where did you get your h/c and what kind of pump do you need to archive a good water flow in that thing?

That’s the fan you’re talking about: http://www.inmind.ca/products/80mm-panaflo.html
Have you tried the high or low?

Damn, I'm lost again...