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Need some memory help with overclock

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RoskO (_!_)

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
I have pc2400 micron with no ramsinks....epox 8rda nforce2 and a tbred B 2100.

My problem so far is the memory wont do above 150mhz stable, the default voltage I think is 2.63v, I have tried 2.7v but not the next setting up. When I first put it at 166mhz it booted into windows fine, but then started progressivly getting worse as it ran apps. I think they might have got hot, or they just can't handle it. I figured for sure they would do 166mhz at the worst timings, because at 133mhz the ram does cas2 with the fastest timings available without a flaw. Any help appreciated. Do you think if I made some ramsinks, that might help the issue? I know the chip is stable, I can run it at around 2270mhz and it runs fine at 133mhz memory and fsb, my problem is with the memory I'm pretty sure. I have tried to back the chip down to a slower speed by reducing the multi and raising the FSB to 166mhz and it behaves the same way, so the memory is the culprit. Please help me out if you have any suggestions. I may look into new memory even though I was gonna wait until the hammer for that. Suggestions on memory welcome too I suppose.

Thanks
 
It looks like your PC2400 is the limiting factor now.

Try this test to determine how high the FSB can go. Set to run memory at 50% ASYNC mode. Increase the FSB slowly few steps at a time (1 MHz step near the top) to determine the max system stable FSB speed (in ASYNC mode). Normally you should be able to run somewhere between 180-230 MHz for nforce2 MB in ASYNC mode.

If your FSB can run at 200+ MHz in ASYNC 50%. Then there is a way to boost your system performance to around PC2700-2800 level while running your existing PC2400 in ASYNC dual channel mode 75%, i.e. FSB @ 200 MHz, memory @ 150 MHz.

Link1

Link2
 
hitechjb1, thanks for the tips, but I have no desire to run outta sync. I have read all the benchmarks and played around with 2 nforce2 setups and nothing compares in overall system/gaming performance when it's in sync. When running async it just doesn't seem as snappy, not even close. Even in sync at 133fsb seems faster than running a high fsb with lower memory, just my experience. I guess I should just get some new memory to run sync at 166 or 200....ugh, didn't wanna blow the money.
 
Yep you just need some new ram. Fortunately ram prices are pretty cheap right now, over at googlegear you can get 512mb name brand pc2700 for under $80 :)
 
There is a misconception about SYNC and ASYNC for nforce2.

It is true that if you want to spend on top speed memory and run it in SYNC with FSB, it would give you best memory BW for AMD MB. But many don't even know what the max FSB of their system is and go to buy PC3500 memory that exceeds the FSB limit of their system, and waste the most expensive, top portion of the memory BW.

Top memory is expensive, paying 30-50% more to get 10% performance. Just like most of us won't buy XP 2800+, paying 50% to get 10% CPU, but rather a 2100/2400 Tbred B.

But on the other hand, if you know the FSB can run 50-100% FASTER than the memory, e.g. 75% ASYNC is a good tradeoff and pretty common for using existing memory. Then running ASYNC dual channel can get you to within 5-10% of the top SYNC mode memory and 3D performance.

Also trying to run in ASYNC with your existing memory won't do any harm and you may be surprise to see the 3D mark results.

Of course, if you already have the top memory or go to buy them, then run them in SYNC would get the last 10% of performance (with 30% more memory cost).

PS: Intel chipset has been doing this: ASYNC memory with FSB at much higher speed.
 
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Yeah, now that I know the epox unlocks the chip and I can pretty much manipulate it however I want, I could run 200mhz fsb and memory at 133, but I generally see problems running outta sync. Let me explain why I feel this way. When you run async you have a latency difference between the memory and fsb, this causes a few issues, things that don't come up in benchmarks. For instance, I can get 3dmark to give me great scores if I run 200mhz fsb with 150mhz memory, but when I play games the video hitches a little, due to the async. It is not as fluid but benchmarks wont show that. It seems everyone here is worried about what gets you the best score in a bench, when they should be worried about what the computer "feels" like. Hehe....it's like a car to me, some just feel faster than others, one might have 400hp, the other 350hp, but the 350hp is perfectly tuned with the right plugs and better timing and it wins. I know the nforce2 made a big step in trying to alleviate issues by locking agp etc, but it still seems to affect it when running async. Just my personal opinion. I'll try setting the fsb to 200 and memory lower. Maybe these issues are a thing of the past, and it will impress me. Thanks again for the help.
 
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Thanks for the feedback. Lets look at a bit more about benchmark and game feeling, ..., may be we can find out something and straighten out the misconception on SYNC/ASYNC.

Glad to hear you can run your FSB at least at 200 MHz.

At least now you can see the benchmark is not bad. Indeed for sure, ASYNC FSB at 200 MHz, memory at 133/150 MHz will beat out SYNC at 133 or 155 MHz (by quite a bit).

Have you tried running FSB at 200 MHz and memory 150 MHz ASYNC 75%. Your PC2400 should run at 150 MHz. Make sure memorys are in DIMM1 and DIMM3. What 3D mark you can get compared between SYNC and ASYNC? Would be interesting to see your numbers.

Game smoothness is a subjective matter, how can it be translated into benchmark number so we can do some tweaking ?

I play games occasionally, but not a great gamer enough to feel the game's feeling, ...
 
I'll try and come up with the best overall feeling/solution and attempt to put it into words later on. Gaming is probably the hardest work a computer has to do. I there are a bundle of stress test apps out there, but nothing I run seems to crunch my system as hard as games, and then you see the "real world" performance. It's like comparing a P4 to AMD. In most of the benchmarks the P4 2.53ghz would trounce a 1700+ amd, but when you play games, and get the feel of both systems you can tell that the AMD is faster. It's like this unexplainable speed, my gaming friends feel the same way I do. An example, an IT friend has a 2.53ghz P4 with RDRAM and the works, but he says it just doesn't even hold a candle to his athlon XP runnin g 1000mhz lower, even though benchmarks would show differently. I'll have to come up with a word for it.....hehe. The unexplainable overall system feel.
 
Also we have to explain why you don't FEEL running ASYNC is as good as SYNC, even the 3D mark shows good numbers.

If you get a chance, tell me what 3D mark you can get running FSB at 200, memory at 150 (75% ASYNC).

The money for upgrading expensive memory can be used for other parts to balance the system better.
 
Yeah....if I were gonna spend $200 it would probably be on a 9700pro with heat pipes :). I'll try it out and let you know.
 
Had a question about that asus nforce2.....is there any way to unlock the cpu? I keep getting "cpu over protection" or something like that when I change the multi. Bios update fix it ??
 
RoskO (_!_) said:
Yeah....if I were gonna spend $200 it would probably be on a 9700pro with heat pipes :). I'll try it out and let you know.

Good choice. That's my point.

Using dual channel ASYNC with PC2400/2700 on nforce2 MB is very economical (aka Intel style).

I love to get a 9700 np around 200+ now. Hopefully when the 9800 come out, it will drop further.
 
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What MB, CPU, ... are you using?

For epox and asus nforce2, the TBred B cpu should be unlocked out of the box. At least the higher mulipliers should be unlocked. But you are using lower multiplier for running high FSB (may be that is the problems). Can you change any multiplier at all?

There is a jumper trick to put on the socket to unlock both higher or lower multiplier, at worst.

Have to look up some previous posts for details.
 
This is a second system I am building with the asus nforce2 deluxe, it won't allow me to change any multiplier, really really stupid. Beginning to dislike asus as I mess with this board and bios more.
 
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A7N8X dlx should let you unlock, change anything as epox bios (except the MB Vdd ?).

What BIOS is it? 1001.G won't let you change multiplier.

1001.C and 1002 final are good.

Use latest 1002 final from asus site.
 
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The A7N8X 1002 bios for sure will unlock TBred B 2100+. Question is whether it can unlock all the multipliers or just the upper ones.

I planning to get a TBred B 2100 or 2400 and want to see whether the MB w/ 1002 bios can unlock the lower multiplier, since I want to run very high FSB. The worst come to worst is to do the jumper trick to unlock the lower ones.

Pls let me know what you find.
 
Here's what I found on that asus with the 1002 bios. It seemed to work fine for me unlocking this 2400+. tbredB. I just tried the multiplier at 7.5...worked ok (bannered correctly), 10x worked, 12, 13, 14, 17.

Looks like you will be ok.
 
Another question about overclocking my memory...is there any way possible I can get this pc2400 to run at 166fsb? I don't really care what the timings are, so long as it's 166. Would ramsinks or raising voltage more work? what's a safe voltage for the mem?
 
RoskO (_!_) said:
Another question about overclocking my memory...is there any way possible I can get this pc2400 to run at 166fsb? I don't really care what the timings are, so long as it's 166. Would ramsinks or raising voltage more work? what's a safe voltage for the mem?

Depends on what that 2400 memory is. It may even be an overclocked memory already, and you may not be able to overclock much. 2.8 V from MB should be safe.

If you are tweaking the FSB, it does not matter whether it can run it at 166 MHz or not. Just do the best you can, from 150 MHz (stock freq of 2400) onwards.

BTW, have you tried running ASYNC using the 2400 with 75%, ... it should give you very good memory bandwidth in dual channel. Especially if you can clock the FSB to 200 MHz or more.

How high can your FSB go in SYNC.
 
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