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NForce2 Bios corruption

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beerman

Registered
Joined
May 31, 2002
Hi all,

a quote from eXcaliberPC

Right after our very successful launch of NF7-S v1.2, we were immediately alerted by very high ratios of users requesting and ordering replacement BIOS for their newly purchased v1.2.

Through our very extensive and laborious research and investigation, we have come to a very solid and alarming conclusion that:
  • There is a basic architectural loophole in nVidia’s implementation of nForce2 chipset to handle BIOS update. Due to the nature design of nForce2 chipset, complex instructions will be written into nVidia Northbridge. However, its CMOS space is rather limited which has resulted in a high potential risk to save data back into BIOS chip improperly. Whenever there is an increased numbers of BIOS/CMOS saving actions taking place, data loss may just occurs. The symptom is very clear that you would get stuck right on the spot, and not able to boot up your system again.
    ...

For more info click on the link.

With the ABIT NF7-S nForce2 BIOS Survival Kit u get a replacement Bios chip, which is already flashed with the latest bios. It costs $11.99

Alternatively you can get the IOSS Bios Savior

1.jpg


2.jpg


Pics are from the Review on bit-tech.net

The reviewer says that you can get the Bios Savior from pcmods.com

The compatibility list is not up to date,
contact IOSS for which model is the right one for your mainboard.

Here an answer to an email:
The BIOS chip on Abit NF7-S is PM49LF004T-33JC. We have RD1-PMC4 for your motherboard.
Or you can check the BIOS chip model on your board and let me know I will
check suitable RD1 model for you.

IOSS_RD11-PMC4.jpg


Imho $24 is not too much :)

Regards
beerman
 
Explain what you mean, you think people buy nForce2 Mainboards just for Dual DDR ?

All nForce2 boards have a bios which is based on nVidia´s reference.

And there is obviously a bug in it, board makers have to write their own one, until then having a bios replace chip or the RD1 Bios Savior would be a good idea.

Not everybody can get a bios chip for his board easily, RMA takes too long so it sucks.
 
I'm very curious about this issue. This whole 'survival kit' from excaliberpc is basically an admission that there IS a BIOS problem, not that we needed proof. So if this is an nF2 thing, does this happen on all nF2 boards? Or is this Abit SAYING it's an nF2 thing to shift blame? Then again, maybe not. I have heard of a multitude of problems concerning many of the nF2 mobos. For example, Asus's A7N8X problems which SEEM to be solved by changing the CMOS battery. Which leads me to my second question...how widespread is this. If I buy an NF7-S what are the odds it will happen to me?

Finally, I think the excaliberpc piece is a little unclear. Does this happen while flashing the BIOS or when simply changing a few settings? If replacing the BIOS chip with this new one fixes it, it seems rather temporary..what happens when the new one conks out? How freaking dumb does Abit think we are, to keep buying BIOS chips? I hope someone can enlighten me on this a little better. I'd hate to make a poor purchase decision. Incidently, my uncle bought an NF7-S v1.2 today. Crossing fingers.
 
beerman said:
Explain what you mean, you think people buy nForce2 Mainboards just for Dual DDR ?

I'm making fun of one of the biggest reasons people buy the NF2 which is Dual DDR asides from lockable PCI & AGP(which makes FSB overclocking pointless for AMD CPUs). Why would you want a board that you have to mod for increased VDD voltage, a better HSF for the NB, heatsinks everywere really to keep the board in check just to run at a FSB that can't be used? You already buy this board for a premium then you have to pay extra for the mods that will void you warranty just to achieve the promised perfrmance & now this BIOS issue:rolleyes:

Like I said before if you want a 3% increase in 3DMarks & live with the slower I/O performace then pay extra after you buy an expensive board. If you want total performance then look for another solution. I choose VIA:beer:
 
Or this could be a way for a vendor to make more money by exploiting an issue that has affected a minority.
 
Sonny said:


I'm making fun of one of the biggest reasons people buy the NF2 which is Dual DDR asides from lockable PCI & AGP(which makes FSB overclocking pointless for AMD CPUs). Why would you want a board that you have to mod for increased VDD voltage, a better HSF for the NB, heatsinks everywere really to keep the board in check just to run at a FSB that can't be used? You already buy this board for a premium then you have to pay extra for the mods that will void you warranty just to achieve the promised perfrmance & now this BIOS issue:rolleyes:

Like I said before if you want a 3% increase in 3DMarks & live with the slower I/O performace then pay extra after you buy an expensive board. If you want total performance then look for another solution. I choose VIA:beer:

How the hell exactly does lockable pci & agp make FSB overclocking pointless?? I assume your reason is that then you wouldnt be getting system-wide performance boost. Well if it is I'll just pre-answer that... increase in PCI bus provides no performance gain, only decreases stability. increasing agp bus provides a small gain, but the 8rda+ and NF7 and perhaps the a7n8x all allow you to do this one mhz at a time just like the fsb. why the hell would you want dividors on your via board? Dual DDR is good for a slight performance gain, nothing amazing but I have two sticks anyway so why not? I have not seen an 8rda+(i dont really follow the other boards) in capable hands and with capable components that couldn't do the rated 200fsb.

NF2:
1. Better overclocking.
2. Better performance.
3. Better onboard features. (audio, dual lan)

[edit] also the price gap is bs, i got my 8rda+ for 105 dollars... the AT7-MAX2 is 165 on newegg and is inferior.
 
Last edited:
No performance gap in increasing your PCI bus? Your wrong for saying that there isn't any. Yes your completely wrong. Increasing the AGP bandwidth offers small performance gain? Wrong again. Then you say you can increase the AGP bus speed anyways:rolleyes: Why then do it if there is no performance gain as you claim? I want a system wide increase & not just to a CPU that can't make use of all that bandwidth. You think slight performance is not worth it & then say Dual DDR is a slight improvement & use it anyways.

BS is comparing prices on a feature filled KT400 & a stripped down NF2. How much for a 4 Channel PCI RAID Controller card just so that you have that same feature on your Epox? How much for the mods to make it run properly?

But hey if your NF2 makes you happy then go enjoy it. Thinking it's superior to everything else on the market is another thing.



BTW - Your sig is beyond the limit of 10points;

Size 1= .75 X11 = 8.25
Size 2= 1 X 4 = 4
Total 12.25

Signatures: Size and Readability Guidelines
 
Sonny said:


I'm making fun of one of the biggest reasons people buy the NF2 which is Dual DDR asides from lockable PCI & AGP(which makes FSB overclocking pointless for AMD CPUs). Why would you want a board that you have to mod for increased VDD voltage, a better HSF for the NB, heatsinks everywere really to keep the board in check just to run at a FSB that can't be used? You already buy this board for a premium then you have to pay extra for the mods that will void you warranty just to achieve the promised perfrmance & now this BIOS issue:rolleyes:

Like I said before if you want a 3% increase in 3DMarks & live with the slower I/O performace then pay extra after you buy an expensive board. If you want total performance then look for another solution. I choose VIA:beer:
why cant higher fsb's be used? as far as i know amd's can use as much fsb as you give them
 
It obviously isn't just Abit. Take a trip to the AOA forum, and look at the endless posts of "corrupted BIOS 8RDA", "need new BIOS chip", "board won't post".
No performance gain is worth that kind of headache for me.
If I jump on the N Force bandwagon, it will be after they have sorted this out.
This problem should have been found and solved before the chipset was released. At the very least, it should have been anticipated by the motherboard manufacturers, and they should have made dual BIOS mandatory for this chipset.
 
Sonny said:
No performance gap in increasing your PCI bus? Your wrong for saying that there isn't any.


show me some benchmarks with an increased PCI bus giving increased performance of some kind.... i dont even know what you are claiming the pci bus will help.

Yes your completely wrong. Increasing the AGP bandwidth offers small performance gain? Wrong again. Then you say you can increase the AGP bus speed anyways:rolleyes: Why then do it if there is no performance gain as you claim?

i said agp bus increases offer a small amount of performance, not nothing, i have tested this myself and wasn't impressed.
though i must confess i do run my agp bus at 78, its not hurting anything, but it does offer a little performance.

I want a system wide increase & not just to a CPU that can't make use of all that bandwidth. You think slight performance is not worth it & then say Dual DDR is a slight improvement & use it anyways.
i also said i was not impressed by dual ddr, it had nothing to do with buying the board, yet i had two sticks already, and it doesnt affect my overclock so why not, though i already said this, you didn't seem to comprehend.

BS is comparing prices on a feature filled KT400 & a stripped down NF2. How much for a 4 Channel PCI RAID Controller card just so that you have that same feature on your Epox?
its an 8rda+ not an 8rda, quite "feature filled" imo. how much for an audigy snd card to compete with my onboard? yeah. i was simply comparing one of the only VIA solution i thought even came close to the value of this board. i could probably find a better example but you must agree there is really no price difference between nf2 and kt400 based boards.
How much for the mods to make it run properly?
as i said, ive not seen an 8rda+ that cannot do 200 in capable hands. also, i have spent $0 to make my board run properly. i guess you could count the 40mm fan on my NB that i already owned, but it doesn't make any difference if i have it there. i just haven't taken it off yet. the bios thing is an issue to consider i suppose, no doubt about that. its not as if VIA has never had problems like that either... and i find the value of the 8rda+ outweighs the risk of spending an extra 18 bucks or whatever. which i have not had to do.

But hey if your NF2 makes you happy then go enjoy it. Thinking it's superior to everything else on the market is another thing.

you've not really provided anything to the contrary, just a lot of disagreeing and jibes at nf2.


i almost should have just said "Reread my post!" -- to much creative interpretation.
 
Yeah right! Go to the Storage section & see why people that run RAID0 like the increased PCI BUS Speed. Have you proven anything? None whatsoever. all you do is say what you believe is true & have not even tried to check things out for yourself. Do you run RAID0? We can compare scores with my overclocked PCI BUS.

Another person amazed at onboard sound & compairing it to an Audigy. LMAO!!!!!!!!! Now how much for a 4 Channel RAID card? LMAO!!!!!!!! You talk about proof & tell me I have none. Where is your proof? LMAO!!!!!!!!
 
I think the problem is that some board makers are trying to fit too many options into the BIOS. As for the argument that going on.....here are some reasons I am switching to an nforce2 from a "KT400."

1. If you noticed the quotes with the KT400 above......its because all these boards really are, are KT333 with a 400 snuck in there. There is no 6/1 divider......so its really just false advertisement.

2. because of that, if I attempt to go over 193, my HDD pushes back and all my info gets lost somewhere in the middle. This is where the PCI lock comes in. Personally, im not planning on ever running RAID because I don't need to move large amounts of data that quickly.....so its not an issue with me.

3. The nforce2 gets better performance over VIA based boards.

4. Capacitors. The nforce2 boards all have them lined up on the sides....which is just what I need for my SLK-900. Sonny knows what im talkin about.

Thats pretty much it....both boards have their ups and downs, but we shouldn't be argueing over them.
 
Jeff7477 said:
4. Capacitors. The nforce2 boards all have them lined up on the sides....which is just what I need for my SLK-900. Sonny knows what im talkin about.

Thats pretty much it....both boards have their ups and downs, but we shouldn't be argueing over them.

Yeah the caps are really annoying on the board. But not all NF2 are clear of this problem. ASUS A7N8X Has this Cap bending too.

slk10.jpg

FROM THIS THREAD
 
Maybe a fix is coming soon, Áedán has posted his theory about the nForce2 BIOS corruption on AOA Forums:

Originally posted by Áedán on AOA Forums

The basic problem is that the CMOS RAM isn't big enough to store all of the settings made in the BIOS. Now, I don't know how big the CMOS RAM actually is on the nForce2, not having any technical data on it. Alas, the CMOS RAM size was set by nVidia, not by any of the manufacturers.

The result is that the BIOS ends up saving some of the settings in the FLASH chip. It so happens that the FLASH also contains the BIOS software itself. Obviously, if anything goes wrong with updating the settings in the FLASH, there's a real potential for the BIOS software to be damaged.

A possibility would be to use an external EEPROM, connected to the SMBus. The BIOS would be capable of reading/writing to the SMBus, and could query the EEPROM for the data that could not be stored in the CMOS. The downside is that there is potential for badly written motherboard monitoring utilities to overwrite the data in the EEPROM. However, with an integrety check, the BIOS could ensure that the contents of the EEPROM were valid, and if not, it could load a set of valid settings.

Áedán

Look =>here<= for more info.

Hopefully it will be fixed soon, till then this great advise smileyz
posted in the same thread may help :D

Originally posted by smileyz on AOA Forums
before i got my nforce 2 board i did some reading... and lots of ppl complained of this bios corruption issue..

one guy however had great advice..

ONLY CHANGE ONE SET OF PARAMETERS AT ONCE..
i.e
1)only change ram setting or the cpu setting
2)save first..
3) then exit... save and exit is a bad option...
4) go back in and change other settings
5) save .............etc

i've been doing this form day one on my two nforce two board and i haven't got the bootlock screen once yet... except the one time on the 8RDA+ that i decided to change too much and save and exit... but a simple "hold down insert" while pressing reset a few times fixed that.. since then i have stuck to the above routine like a religion and not a single bios error yet... wicked...

beerman
 
beerman said:
Maybe a fix is coming soon, Áedán has posted his theory about the nForce2 BIOS corruption on AOA Forums:



Look =>here<= for more info.

Hopefully it will be fixed soon, till then this great advise smileyz
posted in the same thread may help :D



beerman
ty. i better stop saving an exiting
 
Sonny said:
Yeah right! Go to the Storage section & see why people that run RAID0 like the increased PCI BUS Speed. Have you proven anything? None whatsoever. all you do is say what you believe is true & have not even tried to check things out for yourself. Do you run RAID0? We can compare scores with my overclocked PCI BUS.

Another person amazed at onboard sound & compairing it to an Audigy. LMAO!!!!!!!!! Now how much for a 4 Channel RAID card? LMAO!!!!!!!! You talk about proof & tell me I have none. Where is your proof? LMAO!!!!!!!!

no i do not run raid as it isn't very cost effective in a simple desktop setup. nor is it a reason to buy a motherboard as typically standalone solutions perform better and can be transferred to new systems etc. i would like to see some hdd performance benchmarks from you of before and after pci bus overclock with your raid setup as i have none to test. i believe you could get a benefit from a raid setup since the bus would actually be saturated. however, i have not been able to find any information anywhere that suggests the pci bus actually increases performance otherwise. you never clarified earlier that you were talking about raid.

but good news for nf2 lovers who also believe there is a performance gain to be had by raising the pci bus. the abit nf7 allows you to do this 1 mhz at a time with no dividers anyway.

also i believe you should follow your own advice to "check things out for yourself." the audio on the nf2 mcp-t southbridge is comprable to an audigy. otherwise i wouldnt have said that. heh.
 
Well Sonny.....I must admit you've managed to insult me on 3 counts! I HAVE a 4 channel RAID 5 IDE card....I HAVE 5.1 on board sound and I HAVE the NForce2 board. I'm extremely satisfied thus far, but would you like to flogg me as well?

Frankly, I'd have expected better of you than what I've read in this thread.
 
I already have posted my HDD benchmarks from default & overclocked bus speeds. Go to the storage section & look for yourself. Yes I know how the onboard audio sounds like & it's no way near an Audigy.
 
Shadow ÒÓ said:
Well Sonny.....I must admit you've managed to insult me on 3 counts! I HAVE a 4 channel RAID 5 IDE card....I HAVE 5.1 on board sound and I HAVE the NForce2 board. I'm extremely satisfied thus far, but would you like to flogg me as well?

Frankly, I'd have expected better of you than what I've read in this thread.

Would you like me to backdown & not speak my mind?
 
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