Is Nvidia cheating???

[mcortz_2000]

Howdy all,

Before anyone gets all flame ready, listen first...

It seems from the general consensious that the FSAA rendering on a number of games is producing extensive blurring on textures thus giving it the edge performance wise when using AA...

I understand this may be sorted out in newer drivers but jeesh the textures are horrible in some cases. :(
I sure as heck would not shell out $400-$500 on a card that has issues as serious as that....

Anyway as much as it is a great card overall I seem to feel slightly suspicious......

I guess only time will tell...

Another thing to think about is the soon to be released Cat. 3.4's.

Just my 0.2....

[mcortz_2000]

Here is a good example of the AA problem......

http://www.hexus.net/review.php?review=554&page=7

[ninthebin]

thats the thing, the Radeon vs GeForce in the IQ dept is clear who is the winner, look at the 4x antialiasing and 8x anisotropic for example, I would really like to see the 5900FX with exact same image quality as that and perform anywhere near.

[OC Noob]

I'll bet its a bug that can be fixed, but if it isn't then...uh oh!



ps If you're not cheating, you're not trying;)

[Hurk]

Originally posted by ninthebin
thats the thing, the Radeon vs GeForce in the IQ dept is clear who is the winner, look at the 4x antialiasing and 8x anisotropic for example, I would really like to see the 5900FX with exact same image quality as that and perform anywhere near.

People would stop saying that "ATI beats nVidia by %100 when AA and AF are cranked" and they would start saying "ATI beats nVIdia by %400-%500 when they are at teh same image quality!"

[Cowboy X]

Some imply that the new NV35 is using a post filter effect to mask some of the jaggies and thus appear better than the 5800. Note I didn't mention the ATI cards because ATI still looks better .Is this cheating ................yes . But we have to make sure that such is really the case and that it isn't just simply driver errors on Nvidia's part , this is after all not the final card or final driver set .

NV 35 is fast enough in my opinion without 'cheats' to be a good alternative or competitor to ATI's current offerings ( ATI has promised a new and faster card in 2 months , around the time you can actually but the NV 35 ) . But Nvidia wants more than just parity with ATI , more than just edging out ATI , they want to clearly win and dominate . If they are not using 'cheats' at present , and today's performance is clean , then it is good news for us gamers and for Nvidia and its fans . But if they are cheating , and like the NV30 still can't clearly surpass or beat ATI's older offerings then NV35 will be in almost as much trouble as NV30 .

[tourmal]

Originally posted by ninthebin
thats the thing, the Radeon vs GeForce in the IQ dept is clear who is the winner, look at the 4x antialiasing and 8x anisotropic for example, I would really like to see the 5900FX with exact same image quality as that and perform anywhere near.

Well, with no AA or AF the 5900 wins hands down, but it seems that nVidia sucks at making AF routines in their cards...it seems that every GeForce card does terribly with any sort of "real" IQ enhancement going on (I really can't call the 4x AA on the 5900, especially from that one screenshot, "IQ enhancement"). I definitely think ATI went the smart route by making better use of their memory throughput and a more efficient rendering path than nVidia's brute force approach. As for those people who think the GFFX is "king", I have no doubt that they have the highest power at the lowest settings...but no one really needs 250 fps in 640x480x16 quake 3, seeing as monitor refreshes only really go up to 120, and usually stay at 60-100 hz in most gaming modes (1024x768 - 1600x1200).

[mcortz_2000]

Originally posted by tourmal

but no one really needs 250 fps in 640x480x16 quake 3, seeing as monitor refreshes only really go up to 120, and usually stay at 60-100 hz in most gaming modes (1024x768 - 1600x1200).

Another good point.....
Low settings give it an edge but how many people want a card of this magnitude/price and then run such low settings.....:D Its high quality all the way baby...:D

[InThrees]

I can distinctly remember when the world was all a-titter because ATI was doing REALLY shady things with drivers and AA/AF image quality settings / methods.

I remember nVidia quietly pushing people into noticing that, too.

You would think they would have learned something, maybe along the lines of

"Hey, let's not ever do that ourselves."

[Cowboy X]

It's just high tech hypocrisy .

[iD10t]

I don't know if anyone else has said this but, It seems to me the vid card guys are in the same situation as the two processor companies. nVidia is takin the Intel approach (more raw power), while ati seems to be taking the AMD approach (more work per cycle). Seems eerie to me at least :)

[timmyqwest]

i never run my 4600 in 4x, it's a blur fest

i cant wait for the 9700's to drop in price

[ninthebin]

I don't know if anyone else has said this but, It seems to me the vid card guys are in the same situation as the two processor companies. nVidia is takin the Intel approach (more raw power), while ati seems to be taking the AMD approach (more work per cycle). Seems eerie to me at least

yes but the 9800 pro is 8x1 yes? the 5900 Ultra is still only 4x1 so here Intel is using AMDs FSB :) (but then it also has more bandwidth so I suppose if you look at it that way your right :rolleyes: )

[ElectroSoldier]

Interesting parallel ATi is AMD, nVidia is Intel.

I wonder how many are like me and prefer Intel CPUs with ATi built cards?

howz the pool ninthbin? i not been to paradise for a while now is Radio city doin any events this summer on the pier head? and whens CreamFields?

but I digress, I always was an ATi man, I bought a GeForce2 GTS when they 1st came out and watched as only what seemed like weeks went by and my top of the line card was 2nd hand junk.

I think as with all things if you wait a little the problems either stick and you avoid them with a vengance or they are sorted and they become good budget cards, these problems as has been said could be a driver problem and can be sorted but maybe not in which case you know who is better and why

[gokickrocks]

technically the blurring on 4xAA is not cheating, cause technically blurring is a form of AA...

subjectively on the other hand.......