OCing newb needs help with p4 3.06b

[FrozenFears]

So I have to admit I'm new to overclocking, and I'm not afraid to ask what most of you may consider as stupid and/or ingorant questions because I really don't know the answers and was unable to find the info I was looking for on the forums. I would really appreciate any help you guys have to offer.

Ok so my question is, how do I change the multiplier on my p4 Northwood in order to overclock my FSB? Right now the only way to increase FSB is to increase the CPU clock which is default set at 133x23. I'm not able to adjust my multiplier in bios, and I've read other posts about "unlocking," but those all had to do with AMD cpus and I was unable to find any posts about unlocking/changing the multiplier on Intel cpus.

My Setup is this: P4 3.06b Northwood, Gigabyte Sinxp1394 mobo, 2x512 Geil PC3700 DDR, Enermax 465w PS, and if you need more info on the system please let me know, thanks :)

[batboy]

Intel multiplers are locked. You overclock by raising FSB only (CPU clock). You are just the guy I need to chat with. I wanna know how well that Geil PC3700 overclocks.

[FrozenFears]

Hey well, if you want to know how well it OC's I bet you know better what to do than I do, I mean I've changed my timings etc, and I think I've reached a point where the RAM needs more volts to run at higher speeds, cause when I clock it up, it doesn't seem to like 3D mark, and will close some games to desktop randomly.

And the fact that my multiplier is locked angers me lol, maybe I need to invest in WC so I can clock it higher....I think you got me motivated hehe, I'm gonna go tinker with those settings again now, and hopefully I won't feel like :bang head afterwards ;)

[batboy]

What FSB did you get to? What memory ratio are you using? What RAM timings? What type of cooling? What CPU voltage? What are your load CPU temps?

[batboy]

Even with a FSB of 158 MHz using a mem ratio of 3:4 you'll only be at DDR433 and your RAM is rated at DDR466. No way should your RAM be holding you back. Make sure you "fix" the PCI/AGP bus.

[FrozenFears]

I haven't really tried to OC my system much, weathers been really hot, so I just have left it at 136x23 for a whopping 3.12Ghz lol (should call that a slip of the finger in cpu clock settings rather than an overclock =P), as for the RAM its running at 364Mhz timings of Cas2.5 6-3-3, my HSF is a Thermalright SLK-900u with idle of a about 38(+/- 2), depending on ambient temp, and load about 46, today cause it was so hot my cpu hit 50 :( ...the CPU voltage is set at normal and I am able to increase the cpu voltage by increments of .25 starting with normal then 1.575...1.600...1.625 etc (so I'm gussing the normal/standard setting is 1.55?). As for the RAM voltage, I don't seem to have many options, other then in my frequency/voltage control I can set the ram to +.1V or normal...I have it set at the +.1V. When I choose a ram setting of just over 400mhz for clock speed (is that the ratio in clock speed form?), windows loads, but games/3d mark crash. Also how do I determine what mem ratio I'm at? Thats something I've read a lot about in the forums, actually some posts from you, and I still don't fully understand what it is or how it works. Is there some mathematical formula involving other CPU settings to figure out what its at?

As for "fixing" my AGP/PCI do you mean that I need to manually adjust their clocks? as in underclock them so they stay at 66 and 33 due to the fact that by overclocking the cpu it overclocks and raises those? or something like that, I know my newbieness is sorely showing now, but I wanna learn so I can figure out this machine I built, cause I dont' like to change settings unless I understand the repurcussions of my actions ;)

you got me all hopeful now that if I change my agp/pci that I might be able to clock my ram back up :)

[batboy]

Most of us "fix the PCI/AGP bus to the default 33/66 MHz, so they don't run out of spec and cause instability. But, at the 136 FSB, that should not be a problem since you have a 1/4 PCI divider. You should be ok without fixing the PCI to default until you hit maybe 144 FSB. Temps look good, by the way.

I don't know anything about those Gigabyte mobos, so I don't know what memory ratios are offered. Sounds like the setting aren't like I'm used to seeing. If there is a memory setting that runs the RAM at DDR404 when you're at 136 FSB, than that is a 2:3 mem ratio (1.5X136X2=404). Is there any other mem ratio settings? Most mobos have either a 3:4 (1.33X) or a 4:5 (1.25X) mem ratio setting. That DDR404 setting should be well within specs and your timings are not aggressive, so I'm not sure what's going on.

[alien76]

Your ram definitly shouldnt be a problem. You are running your ram at 364Mhz ( for your kind of ram this is way to low ). My DDR266 works as DDR333 with 2,2,2,5 settings on default Vcore.
Your PCI/AGP at 136 even without PCI/AGP fix arent to high. Dont know what could cause your instabillity.

[FrozenFears]

Question about the RAM, do I need to change the timings if I up the MHz? I mean like does it need faster timings to run at faster speeds?

[micamica1217]

hi,

first I'd like to say that we here have all been in your newbie shoes at one time.
and no question is stupid, so ask away.

infact, I'm probably the dumbest OCer here, yet I can get a nice OC because I understand the "basics" to OCing.

knowladge is power...so start reading some of thies. (http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/index04.asp#BEGINNER%20GUIDES)

you'll be happy you did.

I don't think you'll have much of a problem with heat, as long as you don't overvolt your cpu. yes I know your room temps are hot, but you should be OK.
just start out at 145fsb and forget about your memory and agp for now. maybe set the agp/pci to fix...but thats it.

read a little from the page I listed...then start to pump it up.

the only question I have is what your case cooling is like?

have fun, and good luck.

mica

[FrozenFears]

Case Cooling, I have the 80mm intake (came with case generic brand), been thinking about replacing it with this 120mm Stealth Fan (http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/va12stfan.html) or this guy http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/evice12.html. As for the rest of my case, I have a Thermalright SLK-900u with a 53CFM 92mm enermax fan on my cpu. Don't use my tornado cause I can't hear music then :(, thought about plugging it in and setting it on top of my case facing me, using it to cool me when it gets hotter lol ;). and as for exhaust I have an 80mm Panaflo.

Oh yeah I just modded my Ti4200 with the Vantec Iceberg pro, not sure if that will effect overall case temps, but if it keeps the card cooler seems like that might help, cause when I was OCing it with stock cooling the idle/load temp of the computer seemed to increase a couple degrees, but I mean the weather can change that too, so who knows if it actually helped cool the entire case. But hey it looks cool and I can clock my 4200 @ 325/638 with no problems :)

[FrozenFears]

Ok so now its running at 3.3Ghz (144x23) board auto changes 145 down to 144 (not sure why), RAM is at 386Mhz, and system is appearing to be stable, idle is about 44C and load is 50C, although it is cooler today, was A LOT hotter yesterday, and my guess is that I would probably be at a load of around 55C+ with yesterdays ambient temps. I think I understand all the gripes about hot weather now ;). Ok so I think now I'm going to try clocking my Ram up (changing divider) again and seeing what happens...

Anyone have other suggestions on what I should do next?

[FrozenFears]

so just a quick update. Changed the Ram clock from 386Mhz to 434Mhz and got problems, both 3D mark and Tribes 2 closed after running for a minute or less, I've had these problems every time I've set my ram clock over 400Mhz (no matter what the cpu clock was set at), Desktop and standar programs run fine though, like I currently have my ram still clocked at 434 and am able to go on the net and use all basic programs. Sandra completed the cpu and ram burn in tests without a hitch. The only thing that just came to mind now is this: after purchasing my mobo I was reading more reviews about it and I came accross one that said something like This is a great mobo, but it stubbornly refuses to run RAM above 400Mhz I don't know if their is any truth behind that or not, but I think I'm going to contact gigabyte and see if they can inform me as to whats going on, cause this definately doesn't seem like a problem most people have.

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by FrozenFears
so just a quick update. Changed the Ram clock from 386Mhz to 434Mhz and got problems, both 3D mark and Tribes 2 closed after running for a minute or less, I've had these problems every time I've set my ram clock over 400Mhz (no matter what the cpu clock was set at), Desktop and standar programs run fine though, like I currently have my ram still clocked at 434 and am able to go on the net and use all basic programs. Sandra completed the cpu and ram burn in tests without a hitch. The only thing that just came to mind now is this: after purchasing my mobo I was reading more reviews about it and I came accross one that said something like I don't know if their is any truth behind that or not, but I think I'm going to contact gigabyte and see if they can inform me as to whats going on, cause this definately doesn't seem like a problem most people have.

geil seems to make poor memory...sad to say.
the pc3500 just flat out stinks.

try uping the voltage on your memory....say 2.8v and see if this helps.

btw, with the heat problems you talk about, I would say you need a new case.
panaflows are good at staying quiet, but you seem to need more of them.

look at newegg.com for ideas...look for 4 or 5 fan holes.
most of the cases come with two fans, and if you don't need a PSU, then you may only pay about $60.00

let's try to keep your cpu below 50c at all times.;)

mica

[batboy]

Sounds like your mobo don't like RAM speed above DDR400. You probably don't need a new case unless you decide to go extreme overclocking. You should have a power supply exhaust fan already, so if you have one 80mm intake and one other 80mm case exhaust, I say you need more intake flow. Either replace the generic intake with a high flow 80mm or mod the case and stick that 120mm bad boy in there.

So, you only have two memory ratio choices? Running at DDR 386 sounds like that's a 4:5 ratio. Sounds like the solution is to run 150 FSB using the 4:5 ratio which will give you DDR400 and a CPU clock speed of 3.45 gig. If you can pull that off, you'll have an awesome overclock.

[FrozenFears]

Oh I forgot to mention the Enermax PS has an intake right above the cpu and a back exhaust. As for the problem with the mobo and not running ram above 400Mhz, I emailed Gigabyte, and well I hope something comes of it, have yet to hear back from them.

What kind of CFM would you reccomend for in intake fan? I agree that more intake would be better, but just how much more do I need? that 120mm stealth only has 54CFM, but its nice and quiet (only 28dbA)which is somewhat important to me since its at the front of my case, but if I should get more CFM I was looking at the enermax 120mm (http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/12clearulwit.html) with adjustable rpm, the lowest setting of which is 68CFM@1500RPM and 36dbA. It can put out a max of 95CFM at 43dbA, which could be important when it heats up this summer. Which one would you guys reccomend?

Also about intake fans, since I would be pushing a lot more air into my case would it be a good idea to invest in an air filter?

[FrozenFears]

Ok so FSB of 150 is not possible w/out increasing voltage, I first tried it set at 149 so ram would still be under 400 (just so I could make sure it wasn't mobo/ram incompatability that was crashing the system). I get into windows, but then when I try and run any game or big program computer restarts itself. So if 149 doesn't work I know 150 won't either ;) oh well, at least it runs stable at 144FSB on stock voltage and I'm getting full load temps maxing out at 48C at that setting. But hey on a lighter note I've been trying to get my GF4 to break the 2000 barrier on 3DMark'03. Finally did that today, with the cpu at 3.3 (144x23) and my Vantec Iceberq pro modded Asus Ti4200@325/638. Passed that threshold with flying colors with a score of 2001! 3dMarks hehehe... but hey that was my goal with my card and I reached it :) gotta find some way to stay positive since the whole Motherboard/Ram issue is definately not a happy matter.

[batboy]

If you can stuff that Stealth 120mm into the front of the case, that will be perfectly fine. Should have plenty of air flow then. Of course, you'll need to cut a hole for that 120mm fan. A filter is not a bad idea. Your load CPU temps are ok until you get above mid-50's. So, bump the voltage up a notch and see what happens. Not sure what vid drivers you're using, but I usually got better 3Dmark scores with the most recent Detonators.