Anyone willing to fold a while?

[Shadow ÒÓ]

We're working hard on a goal as you guys are, but wondered if anyone would be interested in a week long endeavor.

For instance.......we look for green men for a week and you come fold for us for a week. Either run both....or just one.....we'll match what you do. Something different, and no one would really lose....it's just an even trade. Anyone not willing to do "cold turkey" for quitting Seti for a few days could run both.....yea it'll slow it down a bit....but we'll be returning the favor anyway.

We wanna get a real boost in overall #'s.....and combined you guys could really make a difference. Then once we're up....we could do for you....or we could do yours first. Don't care...but Pimp Daddy and I came up with the idea and wanted to know if any of you would be interested.

Consider it a change of pace. We get 5 peeps from each team.....well that's 5 more......we get 50.....that's 50.....

buzz us here or post in Folding and let us know?

[Daniel ~]

I run both (I think I've said that before":O} But sounds like a good idea to me.

[NUTNDUN]

I think thats a great idea Shadow. I was crunching Seti there for a while but jumped over to Folding to try to help make a big dent in the team stats, but like when the servers are down I jump back to Seti, It was pretty nice being able to get 10 WU's out in one day. I'll be glad to go which ever way to give each other help, and even if a 1/4 of the Seti crunchers would come over to help the Folding side that would be a heck of an improvement.

[SpeeDj]

Daniel ~ (Apr 06, 2001 01:39 a.m.):
I run both (I think I've said that before":O} But sounds like a good idea to me.Personally I am running Six instances for the teams, three of Seti, and three of Folding, and by using Seti driver, I too don't lose alot of processing time when the server goes down.

You don't take that big of a hit on Processing time, I mean we are doing this for the cause right? =)
J

[kamikaziken]

I'll put folding on my box and do them 50/50.

[NUTNDUN]

That would be great k!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Morpheus]

Hey Guys... I guess I am somewhat reluctant,...

It would be nice to see something like a dual effort, but you have to realize that, at one recent point, 3/4 of the Seti Team's CPU power migrated to Folding@home... as follows (approx.):

3 weeks ago... 1150+ WUs a day
2 weeks ago... 650+ WUs a day
1 week ago... 300+ WUs a day (low of 175)
This week... 321 WUs a day

The team has been slowly rebuilding and starting to crunch right along again...

Many members of the Seti team would like to catch the US Navy team (currently #110... 16 places ahead of us)... they are currently 13,650 WUs ahead, but we have GAINED 961 WUs since March 28th & I believe that by the time we catch them they will be close to the top 100... I would like to see our team make it into that bracket... out of 2,919,320 users, our little team... only 4 or 5 months old, will be amongst the top 100 teams in the world... THAT would be cool & that I would like to see...

My sense, (based on what Daniel has written about how well SETI & Folding work together) is there MAY be reason to believe that combined output might exceed running either project as a stand alone... And, if we (both teams) could gain from a combined effort like that I am behind it 200%..

What do you say, "shall we experiment?"

See what happens on, maybe, 6 machines (which would make a total of 3 SETI/Folding pairs)... It will be important to match "pairs" as closely as possible... (speed, OS, FSB, RAM, etc.).... And if in 7 days(?) the combined output of a pair (at Folding & SETI) is greater than the output gleaned running these machines as stand-alones then a good argument could be made for "combining" efforts, yes?

But, if the results are less than or equal to, then nothing can be gained from swapping "crunches" for each team, true??

I am open to suggestions...

Kris

[Shadow ÒÓ]

how about this then.....I just signed on my 4th computer today....and my 5th will be t'mor. I have anything from a cyrix 300 to P III 933.....

I can sign up under your account and give you the wu's. you can SEE the gain then. You sign up under mine or anyone else you choose and we'll just trade that way. You wanna do a day on day off thing or a week on week off thing......or even run both....Folding in my name (or whoever) and seti in your name, we'd not only benefit each team....but our individual scores as well.

I'm open for just about anything, and just trying to do something different for a bit.

[TT120]

I run both at the same time but I am trying to get another machine going to just run Seti and Folding on it and nothing else. It's been a little slow going lately as I broke my main machine and had to spend my savings on some new stuff to fix it.

[Shadow ÒÓ]

TT120 (Apr 06, 2001 11:32 p.m.):
I run both at the same time but I am trying to get another machine going to just run Seti and Folding on it and nothing else. It's been a little slow going lately as I broke my main machine and had to spend my savings on some new stuff to fix it.

I'm not sure splitting is such a good idea. I mean running both....at least for this occasion. If we both run seti for a week.....then we both run folding for a week.....we'll get the boost for a week and ratings up.....it'll probably balance out after it's all over.....but at least we were activly involved in a team effort.

[TT120]

So are we gonna start with Seti or folding?

[Shadow ÒÓ]

TT120 (Apr 07, 2001 08:55 a.m.):
So are we gonna start with Seti or folding?

You wanna be my tag team partner? Doesn't matter to me. Watcha got. 1 or 2 or how many computers. If you wanna do Seti first gimme your account name and I'll start on it today. Or email me the rest. If anyone else wants to join just buzz me.

[TT120]

Shadow ÒÓ (Apr 07, 2001 10:44 a.m.):
TT120 (Apr 07, 2001 08:55 a.m.):
So are we gonna start with Seti or folding?

You wanna be my tag team partner? Doesn't matter to me. Watcha got. 1 or 2 or how many computers. If you wanna do Seti first gimme your account name and I'll start on it today. Or email me the rest. If anyone else wants to join just buzz me.Sure, just tell me what to do. Right now I only have 1 computer and I shut off seti so that it is only running Folding. It's getting the WU's done alot faster now without Seti running. E-mail me with instructions on what you want me to do. bill_delapp@hotmail.com

[Eriksson]

I think we will not gain anything by trading cpu time beetween seti and folding. Both use 100 cpu time when running alone. There is no extra cpu time to gain, when run together these programs split the cpu time even, resulting in more than twice as long time per WU. This is because few cpu cycles are spent in more overhead (dividing the cpu time, managing more memory used etc).

I think Daniel has only stated that these programs run flawlessly side by side as I can confirm.

(GRRR..what happend to the spellchecker (my best friend))

[SpeeDj]

Eriksson (Apr 07, 2001 03:44 p.m.):
I think we will not gain anything by trading cpu time beetween seti and folding. Both use 100 cpu time when running alone. There is no extra cpu time to gain, when run together these programs split the cpu time even, resulting in more than twice as long time per WU. This is because few cpu cycles are spent in more overhead (dividing the cpu time, managing more memory used etc).

I think Daniel has only stated that these programs run flawlessly side by side as I can confirm.

(GRRR..what happend to the spellchecker (my best friend))
My WU Times on SETI only went up by three hours per WU, and the time on Folding didn't vary much at all, I am also running them BOTH SMP. I didn't think a three hour hit on a WU was too terribly bad,

I just keep in mind we are doing this for the Science of it all. As well as for helping out our fellow man. To me, I am getting double the output because I am able to output each Program WU's off my PC's =)

Try doubling up you won't regret it =)
J

[Eriksson]

I just want to share a little info, just in case anyone isn't clear on this subject. This screenshot is taken after approx 8 hour run of both seti and folding clients.

1
Notice the uptime for Voyeur, total running time little over 8 hours.

2
If the pic is good enough you can see the total CPU time each client has got in these 8 hours the total time for both is little more than the up time for Voyeur, this is cus I started seti few minutes earlyer than Voyeur.

3
Seti reports the cpu time, not the realtime it takes to finish WU.

4
Notice the est total time for the folding WU, and take a look at the pic of folding in my next post.

[Eriksson]

Here is a pic of the same folding run after I did shut down seti. Notice the est total time, this is less than half of what it was along with seti.

Conclusion:
There in nothing, and I repeat, nothing to gain by running these clients (S@H, F@H) together. You are actually wasting cpu cycles in more overhead.

Sorry about the size of the pics.

[SpeeDj]

Eriksson (Apr 08, 2001 07:11 a.m.):
Here is a pic of the same folding run after I did shut down seti. Notice the est total time, this is less than half of what it was along with seti.

Conclusion:
There in nothing, and I repeat, nothing to gain by running these clients (S@H, F@H) together. You are actually wasting cpu cycles in more overhead.

Sorry about the size of the pics.
There is something to be gained it's helping the team in more way's than one. I don't mean to make this a holy war, I am simply stating you can run both client's and you won't take a drastic hit on WU Time's I guess if you consider the addition of an hour a Hit on WU Times than yes you shouldn't run them both.

Otherwise, if you look at my attached pic you will see that I do, Running two CPU Processes is not for everyone, but for me, it's all for the good of the team. When I started SETI There were something like 215 Guy's now we are at 400+ with the potential to move up and get some more, we have had some heavy hitter's join up. As well as lost alot of productive guys that went to folding. So it's really a horse apiece.

Just my thoughts on it - I think the pic tells all.
J

[DeRose306]

Once I purchase another router, I was going to have 3 computers running seti, I'll gladly change one to folding. It won't hurt my stei scores since I've only been running seti on one anyways,

[Eriksson]

Dont get me wrong SPEED I am just stating the fact that net WU production cannot be improved by running these apps toghether.

However if anyone likes to contribute to both teams, I got zero problems with that :)

I think anyone with multiple comps should dedicate each box to either f@h or s@h, it seems to me to be the best (fastest) setup.

If I got a dual cpu machine I would use one cpu for folding and the second for seti. However to be honest they would both be crunching folding in my case.

[Murphy]

Hey, Eriksson, where can I find the Windows Task Manager tool? It's something I can really use, I hear alot about it, but can't find it. I run WINME, hope it's there, it could very well be this tool is winNT only.

[SpeeDj]

Eriksson (Apr 08, 2001 02:27 p.m.):
Dont get me wrong SPEED I am just stating the fact that net WU production cannot be improved by running these apps toghether.


A Single WU of Seti runs for 11 Hours for me, A Dual Process WU of Seti run's in the same amount of time, just utilizing both processes.
A Single Fold runs for between an hour to an hour and a half for me, A Dual Process Fold run's the same amount of time, just utilizing both processes.
Running Seti at SMP with Folding at SMP only adds an additional three hour's to that wu's processing time. ='s Approx 14HR's
Running Folding at SMP with Seti at SMP only adds an additional hour give or take to that Fold's processing time. ='s Approx 2:30 to 3HR's
If all in all I am only taking approximately a Four hour addition total to my WU times and contributing to the good of both teams, how is this not productive ?


Total time to crunch a WU of both ? = Approx 17 hours
During that 17 hours I have folded Approx 12 Folds
As well as completed two Seti Units
The slight hit on production has made you more productive for both count's on the team, considering this, you would not have been running one or the other in the first place and in the case of a seti cruncher you have now outputed alot of work for folding at the same time you are running Seti.


However if anyone likes to contribute to both teams, I got zero problems with that :)

Danka, I will continue on my way =)

I think anyone with multiple comps should dedicate each box to either f@h or s@h, it seems to me to be the best (fastest) setup.

If I got a dual cpu machine I would use one cpu for folding and the second for seti. However to be honest they would both be crunching folding in my case.I'll continue upon the course I have already set out upon. I enjoy the dual role my server is employing in this scheme of team effort, and am More than happy to particiipate in both. One for the good of man, and one for the unknown. =)

I am simply stating you are helping both teams by running both and not neccessarily taking a severe hit on production while at the same time, basically doubling your output.

Just my two cents
J

[Eriksson]

Mr. Murphy (Apr 09, 2001 12:46 p.m.):
Hey, Eriksson, where can I find the Windows Task Manager tool? It's something I can really use, I hear alot about it, but can't find it. I run WINME, hope it's there, it could very well be this tool is winNT only.

Sorry I have never tried winME so I dont know if it has the taskmanager. Under win2000 you
get this nice screen by pressing ctrl+alt+del.

[Eriksson]

I really hate to bring this to you speed, but here is the deal.

Seti client and seti driver both report CPU time per WU, not the actual time it takes to
finish a WU. In your pic, and your post seti is reporting total time of 14 hours. This is
14 CPU hours. Since the folding client is using approx 50% of your CPU time Seti will finish
one WU in 2x14 hours=28 hours.

Then in 28 hours your machine is pumping out 2 seti WU (one for each CPU) and if we assume 2:50 per
folding WU (like you say, and the pic shows) 28 hours=1680min / 170min this gives 9,88 WU per cpu
per 28 hours, and since you are running two =19,76 WU

Therefore in 28 hours = 2x seti and 19,76 folding WU.

Alternative#1
Two seti @ 11 h/wu each, in 28 hours = 2x(28/11) 5.1 WU

Alternative#2
Two folding @ 1,5 h/wu hours in 28 hours = 37,33 WU per 28 hours

Alternative#3
one seti @11 h/wu (cpu1) = 2,56 WU per 28 hours
one folding @1,5 h/wu (cpu2) = 18,66 WU per 28 hours

You can see how similar alternative#3 is to the one on top, acually I am using conservative
folding times in #3 1,5 hours instead of the half of 2:50 for the folding WU time.

IMO you are wasting half seti WU per 28 hours by running this confi, this is the time lost
due to more overhead.

If you want to experiment you should try to run 4 instances of seti on your machine, two
on each CPU (without folding). You will see similar times per WU reported by seti, but
this does of course not increse the net wu output since this is the relative cpu time.

Happy crunching :)

[Morpheus]

Hey Jay

The stats show you doing about 27cpu hours per day @ 1.7 WUs avg... you slowed down around the 27th-ish of March...

Just in case you had any questions...

Kris

[Kendan]

Overclockers.com rules!!!!

[eh?]

im gonna do either folding or seti. Which one needs more help? id rather do just one or the other i have around 4 gigs to donate to which ever one....

[lonewolf1983]

im all for the idea
im only crunching seti at the moment
and wont be folding for you as there is not way to cache units for folding
i am not on a permanent connection and my cpu power would go to waste

go seti@home
:D