Centrino with Mobile Radeon 9600

[zachj]

Does anyone know if there will EVER be a centrino (or Pentium M-based) laptop with the mobile Radeon 9600 graphics chipset? I need a laptop for college. I figure the Centrino or Pentium M is a good choice. AMD can't make a good mobile chip, and the P4-in-a-laptop idea isn't a good one. The Pentium M seems to perform VERY well in most applications. Clearly, the Mobile Radeon 9600 is going to kick some major tail. I see plenty of Centrinos out. Laptops based on the 9600 chipset will be coming out shortly according to something I read, although I don't remember where. When will the two, if ever, be married into laptop goodness?

Thanks

Z

[JupiterSSJ4]

hopefully soon...

check sites like www.pro-star.com
and look for laptops that are by Sagar too. (don't have a site)
You may also want to check ebay, they seem to have the newest and best laptops when they come out.

Right now, they have p4 3.06ghz HT, with radeon 9000 128mb. Hopefully soon, they will have better graphics.

[JCLW]

I think I read that Dell will make it an option before the end of summer.

- JW

[Socket eh?]

Yep, Dell is coming with them soon. I'm buying too.

[zachj]

Not that I'm saying that the companies listed in the firts post are crappy, but as I've never heard of them, I'm going to consider them off-brand. I haven't checked them out, yet, but I'd like my laptop to be pretty small and lightweight, and most of the off-brand computers are big and bulky. I was thinking something from Dell, Toshiba, or Sony (if I have to). If lienware comes out with one that actually looks and weighs the part, I'd consider one of those too. I think I've got plenty of money for whatever they charge, though.

Z

[OC Noob]

I heard the Centrino chip was just doing stuff the AMD mobile chips have been doing all along? If that is true why would AMD mobile chips be crappy?


Also, you aren't going to get the latest and greatest in a small package. I wouldn't expect the 9600 in a thin/smaller notebook for at first, but I guess you never know, heh.


ps don't get a Sony. That is what I'm typing on right now and its a real heap of dung. I won't talk about reliability, because this is just one persons experience and not representative of the whole...BUT...support for this thing is total s$%t. They had two versions of this model, w2k & w98. This was the w98 and I went to upgrade it to w2k and couldn't. The Sony drivers are model specific only and they haven't, until recently, made it so can upgrade to w2k with their drivers. The laptop is like 2 years old. They could have released drivers that could be loaded on any model easily, but it took them 2 freaking years! What they did was release a bios flash that lets the drivers see the w98 model as the w2k model. Even with that their drivers are never updated/supported. Its awful. I would never buy a Sony laptop. A TV or moniter sure, but a laptop...no. I have a feeling Toshiba is the same. Go Dell, a lot of their stuff is upgradeable too. I'll bet Sony and Toshiba still solder all of their parts in still.

[zachj]

I don't like, and have never liked, Sony, but the point is, they seem to make smaller laptops than a lot of other companies are capable of. I realize they're not reliable and have no desire to get one, I was just saying, if that's the only computer available with what I want, I'm going to look into it. I'd much rather get a Dell. Their support policy is superb and they don't sell crap.

Centrinos are not like AMDs. I think you heard that because the Pentium M has a much shorter pipeline and does more work per clock cycle, a la AMD. However, the Mobile XPs are nothing more than low voltage XPs with PowerNow! technology. They're not better than desktop counterparts, although they're not worse, either. The mobile XPs aren't clocked as high as the desktop chips are. Don't get me wrong, the mobile 1700+ runs at the same clock as the desktop 1700+, it's just that you can't get a mobile Barton and I *think* they stop at 2400+ in laptops, I don't know. If you compare a Pentium M to a Pentium 4, you can see a distinct advantage to the Pentium M in many areas. As XPs are designed to "compete" with Pentium 4s, and we all know the XP has been getting its a** handed to AMD by Intel for a little while now, the Pentium M will outperform the XP as well.

Do Pentium Ms use SpeedStep or not? I heard that there's some derivative of it in the chip, but does it actually clock down when it's not needed?

Z

[Dc5e]

There should be Speedstep in Pentium M, i have a Dell 600m and mine has it, my laptop usually runs at 600mhz or so but when i do anything demanding, the chip goes up to 1.3 ghz. So yes, it does clock down when its not needed

[zachj]

That's one hell of a down-clock. I thought that Mobile P4-Ms went down to 1200MHz when not in use. That's quite different. I guess it's not as radical as I think, as the chip runs at a lower MHz, so to down-clock, it would have to go down pretty far to actually save juice, but WOW! There's also a part that shuts down unused portions of the chip, is there not? If it was just idling, it would shut down a lot of the chip to save power, correct?

How do you like your Centrino? Is it fast? What would you compare the performance to if you had to?

Z

[Dc5e]

I like it alot... the dell 600m lacks in batt life compared to others, but its still not bad compared to non pentium m's
Also when it runs at 600mhz i really don't notice much performance decrease, because once u start do do anything demanding like play games or something, it jumps up to the full speed.

I also heard that the 1mb cache is shutdown when not in use

After running pcmark2002 my Athlon XP 1800+ was just a slightly faster than my laptop, but the laptop scored higher in the memory test.

Too bad my 1800+ is dead now, it does better in gaming but i really don't have alotta money so i'm just saving up for a upgrade and i'm just using my laptop for now. I'm quite satisfied with it. This is my first laptop and i was kinda expecting more from it.

[OC Noob]

You won't really notice much of a difference in a laptop between 600 mhz and full speed for most common aps. I run this laptop 600 mhz and my father-in-laws 2 ghz and like on a desktop (actually not even as noticable as a desktop) it handle surfing, email, word processors and the like easily enough that anything higher is almost overkill.

Thanks for the info on the Centrino.

As for Intel killing XPs these are all Bartons, but XPs performance isn't much behind Bartons if at all in most cases.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDY5LDQ=

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDc3LDU=

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDc1LDQ=

I can't see why everyone thinks P4s are the run away favorite now. Maybe there are some tests I haven't seen. Anyway, I'm not out for an Intel/AMD war, just wanted to provide some links.

ps I can understand why the Centrino is better now, all of this stuff above is desktop stuff.

[zachj]

I'm not suggesting that AMD loses every battle. Hell, I own only AMD machines. My point is just that AMD hasn't been able to catch up in quite some time and their PR system has become inadequate. My main reason for thinking that Intel is beating AMD is because of AMD's Opteron and Hammer troubles. We've yet to see Prescott, but I haven't heard of any delays yet, which shows me that Intel is ahead of AMD in that area as well. Sure, Intel has a much larger budget to play with and a whole lot of market share they can blow in an emergency (unlike AMD), but it just seems like Intel is more able and capable. I'm glad to see the Northwood at the end of its life, but equally as glad to see the XP go. They've been great chips, but they're aging. AMDs don't clock high enough and Intels don't do enough work per cycle. Hopefully each takes a hint from the other's tracks and we'll see AMDs scale higher and Intels do a little more work. Perhaps AMD will also pick up the memory bandwidth wagon, although the Hammer doesn't seem to be much better, minus lack of latency.

I think we can both admit that AMD has DEFINITELY lost the mobile game. The mobile XP has been a huge bust.

Z

[OC Noob]

Yeah, from what you said the Centrino is a sweet little chip. I was just talking about sesktops tho. The way people have been talking (especially the intel forums) you would think the 800 FSB P4 and the 875 chipset kills AMDs offerings, but its just not so. They both win in certain areas like always.

To be honest with you I thought the 875/865 chipsets were going to crush the nForce2/AMD combo. It was quite a disapointment when I say those benchmarks.

I too look forward to Prescott and Athlon64. Its been a very long time since desktops have made any huge performance strides. To be honest, raid, SATA raid, dual DDR (AMD & Intel), 8x AGP Barton and 800 FSB P4s have all been big disapointments, to me atleast.

[JupiterSSJ4]

sagar notebooks are the alienware laptops that aren't painted with pretty colours, and the pro-star ones have just about eveything you would ever and (maybe even never) use.

They are desktop replacements :) :)

[Formermac]

If I was looking for a laptop for college, I'd consider one of the following machines:

Compaq's Presario 2100: Has an AMD Athlon 2400+ processor, 512 megs of DDR RAM, a 60 gigabyte hard disk, a 15 inch SXGA+ screen with a max built in resolution of 1400x1050, ATI Mobility Radeon graphics chipset, the ability to drive an external screen at up to 2000xsomething, built in 802.11b wireless networking, and a Combo drive (DVD/CDRW). All for $1399 at CompUSA. It's really a fine machine.

Alternatively, if I was looking for something more portabie, I'd get Apple's iBook G3/900. Similar features, with a 12 inch screen, 3 pounds lighter, also with a Combo drive and with a hack an ability to drive an external screen.

Finally, if I was looking for something *really* portable, the Fujitsu Lifebook P2100 is the king of ultralight portables with a 933mhz Transmeta Crusoe processor, 10 inch screen, built in Combo drive, and the amazing ability to run for 12 hours on two batteries with the Combo drive replaced with a second battery.

Personally, I wouldn't mess with Centrino.

[Formermac]

Originally posted by OC Noob

ps don't get a Sony. That is what I'm typing on right now and its a real heap of dung. I won't talk about reliability, because this is just one persons experience and not representative of the whole...BUT...support for this thing is total s$%t. They had two versions of this model, w2k & w98. This was the w98 and I went to upgrade it to w2k and couldn't. The Sony drivers are model specific only and they haven't, until recently, made it so can upgrade to w2k with their drivers. The laptop is like 2 years old. They could have released drivers that could be loaded on any model easily, but it took them 2 freaking years! What they did was release a bios flash that lets the drivers see the w98 model as the w2k model. Even with that their drivers are never updated/supported. Its awful. I would never buy a Sony laptop. A TV or moniter sure, but a laptop...no. I have a feeling Toshiba is the same. Go Dell, a lot of their stuff is upgradeable too. I'll bet Sony and Toshiba still solder all of their parts in still.

I'd avoid Sony and Toshiba as well. I've been disappointed with the specs for the price of the current generation of Toshiba Satellites. Same goes for the current generation of Vaio laptops which generally suck wind on the feature set for way too much money.

[PhobMX]

Originally posted by JupiterSSJ4
sagar notebooks are the alienware laptops that aren't painted with pretty colours, and the pro-star ones have just about eveything you would ever and (maybe even never) use.

They are desktop replacements :) :)

im gonna leave home, so having a laptop as a desktop replacement sounds sweet... I would be ok with either mobile athlonxp or a centrino, but heck i believe the r9600 is a must since i want that computer for games, im gonna check those sagars and alienwarez (LOL)...

Thnx for the advise, ive never liked vaios or toshibas that much anyway, and i believe the compaqs are kinda crappy too... any comments on this?

[Formermac]

Originally posted by PhobMX

Thnx for the advise, ive never liked vaios or toshibas that much anyway, and i believe the compaqs are kinda crappy too... any comments on this?

Some of the past generations of compaqs - especially desktops - have been pretty lousy computers. The recent generation of Compaq laptops, however, has a pretty good feature set for the price.

Of course, if you want a desktop replacement gaming machine, and have the coin, the Alienware laptop is a good solution. It's just not terribly portable, and if you're planning on working in the library or something, the battery life sucks.

[PhobMX]

Originally posted by Formermac


Some of the past generations of compaqs - especially desktops - have been pretty lousy computers. The recent generation of Compaq laptops, however, has a pretty good feature set for the price.

Of course, if you want a desktop replacement gaming machine, and have the coin, the Alienware laptop is a good solution. It's just not terribly portable, and if you're planning on working in the library or something, the battery life sucks.


you are right, and its expensive as hell!!!!

heck i checked out the dell website and i can get a better one with centrino and ati 9000 for 600 less... i have experience with dell laptops and they are neat stuff. Guess ill just wait for the r9600/centrino combo to come out in a dell model (if it comes in a 12" model that would own :D )

[zachj]

Compaqs have managed to regain some ground after sucking for a long time. My sister has a Compaq laptop, and the thing is seriously only a few degrees off of burning me. That might just be specific to her model, though.

As for the Apple iBook, NOT a good choice. The G3 is a helluva lot older than the G4 and the G4 has been on the market since like 1998. Neither of those are worth the price anymore. Sure, the iBook is cheap. But if you want proof, my sister has an 800MHz 14in iBook (I think it's 800MHz). My 350G4 beats the living hell out of it. If you get ANYTHING from Apple, I'd get the PowerBook. But then you've got a dilema. The 17in is HUGE and, in my opinion, ugly, even if it is useful. The 15in doesn't use DDR and has an older video chipset. The 12in, my personal favorite, doesn't have an L3 cache, apparently. And they're ALL expensive, including the 12in, considering what you get. If I had to choose, I'd get the 12in, maybe the 15in. DDR doesn't do much for performance in Macs right now.

As for Transmetta. I wouldn't buy one of those if you payed me. Sure, they're happy little machines if you want to watch DVDs on a plane or type papers, but I wouldn't touch one of those for anything more complicated than that.

Desktop relpacements are TOOO big for my taste, so they're out of the question.

I was really not expecting Canterwood/800MHz FSB P4s to kick AMD tail. They were already so close, and the bus doesn't do much for anything but memory bandwidth, where Intel was already kicking the pants off of AMD, so that wasn't any surprise. I think 8xAGP and everything past ATA66 has been extremely underwhelming. Sure, ATA100 and SATA might offer higher ceilings and allow the hardware to pass data faster than ATA66, but none of them has lived up to the label on the box.

This computer user has been doing this, :rolleyes: , for years.

Z

[madcow235]

I'm surprised no ones recommended IBM's they make tiny models that are maybe 13in max. And they are quality my moms has a 166mhz IBM thats lasted 7yrs has more dents then i knew was possible and there is only 1 dead pixel on the screen and nothing else. Well also my mom works for IBM so ive been brainwashed but i would look at their lightweight ones for small. They dont make desktop replacements though :(

[OC Noob]

Compaq and Toshiba are now merged aren't they?

I wonder if they are putting out laptops that are pretty much the same with just cosmetic and minor hardware differences?

[Dc5e]

if you have the money, go for ibm... they make VERY good laptops, or if u wanna be cheap, go for a dell like me :p

[pip]

If Sager (http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.html) won't have them they won't be worth buying

[zachj]

I didn't think Toshiba sold out to anyone. HP and Compaq merged, however.

I know IBM makes quality, and they do charge a pretty penny, but I've always found them particularly ugly. Perhaps it's Apple's fault for making the industrial design thing so freaking (I just watched Austin Powers) popular, but IBM never got the hang of doing it with taste. If IBM comes out with one, though, rest assured, I'll look into it. They do have a Centrino or two out, now, but I heard the battery life is not as high as others.

Z

[PhobMX]

gericom has r9600 mobility laptops right now, but they use ddr 2100 and mobility p4 :rolleyes: , not to mention they are only available in europe.

OTOH i hope theres a dell centrino/r9600 model coming out... i would definitely buy one of those

or maybe sager...

[Chan]

I was reading somewhere that Dell is not one of ATi's launch partner for the Mobility 9600.

I think the IBM T40 gets about 7hrs of battery life on one battery.

[Ugmore Baggage]

Call me pragmatic (I won't know what it means either) but if I were going away to college I'd want a cheap laptop and a decent PC. You can get both for less $$$ as a deluxe laptop (about equal to the desktop). My main reason is my boombox was stolen at college. I strongly doubt that a component stereo would have been as "easy". I would think the modern campus would be a thief's idea of heaven.

[zachj]

I'm rather worried about theft too, but that sort of thing is generally covered by one's parents' insurance. I'm getting a lock for my laptop to chain it to my desk; that ought to keep the fu**ers off. I want a DP machine too, just for funsies, but I don't know if I'll have enough money left for that. I don't want a high-end machine, but I want it to be able to do the stuff my desktop does, just because I don't think I can take both to school. After all, I have two screens, and even though they're 15in screens, they take up a hell of a lot of space, and for college desks, that equals about all I have allotted to me.

Z

[katka]

Whatever you do avoid Compaq. I have a Compaq labtop and even after just surfing the web for an hour it's to hot to put on my lap with out getting some nasty burns.

[Dc5e]

Originally posted by katka
Whatever you do avoid Compaq. I have a Compaq labtop and even after just surfing the web for an hour it's to hot to put on my lap with out getting some nasty burns.

Compaq isn't bad or anything, its just the cpu that your running in the laptop. My brother has a p4 2.2 compaq laptop and it runs quite hot, and my dad has a 1.6 dell celeron which also runs quite hot, but for me.... my 1.3 pentium m is nice and cool :D

[katka]

My Compaq has a 1 Ghz Duron. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Durons run that hot.