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Ludicrously large fan search, help appreciated

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n8x2

Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2002
Hi, everybody. I'm looking for the biggest, quietest fan I can get my moding little hands on! God bless summer, such a motivator for us air cooling freaks.

I beleive Lithan said it best:
Well My 10" Caravel works Very well. But My case sides are ~17" high. Thats 7 whole inches wasted.

And that is pretty much my opinion on the issue aswell. Done a few searches here and there (web, forums, local electronics stores, etc) and I've figured out the type I'm looking for:

  • Size: ~12", definetely less than 14", so that it fits onto midi side panels with room to spare
  • Shape: Conforms to some industrial standard, in case I need to find a replacement. eg 80mm, 120mm, 172mm, 254mm, etc.
  • Noise: As quiet as possible at low speeds (feathered edges, low AC hum, etc.)
  • Cost: Cheap. Used prefered. Lower quaility is fine, within reason (No Wallmart house fans)
  • Power: 120V AC. No DC fans.

Models: Closest I've found so far are the classic Comair Caravel (mmmm, it even sounds tasty :) ) and the Circuit Test CFA11525489HB, EDIT: and ORION OA254AP.

Advice: Any advice you can provide on slightly larger options are appreciated. However, past 10", everthing seems to become non-standard, meaning that a replacement is going to be much harder to find and the sidepanel would have to be recut. So, any other 10" fans worthy of mention will definetly be given consideration.

Concerns: I've also heard the Caravel has a siginificant AC hum associated with it, even at low speeds. Anyone who has first hand experience working with it, or others, please respond here.

Availability: I'm routinely checking Ebay, Arrow Electronics, Future Active, MRO Electronics, All Electronics, Altex, Atex, BG Micro, Case Etc, Mouser, MPJA, Newark, Surplus Center, and EIO Surplus. Any other suggestions are welcome. Best I found so far is new at Arrow for $60 USA for a Caravel. Please keep in mind that I live in Canada and I like used, dusty, cheap equipment. EDIT: I was sure I saw a list of vendors that sold OC'ing gear etc. on the main page or on a sticky thread or something. Anybody know where that might be?

Thx everyone :)
N8

EDIT: just found grills for the 10" beasties: Lots o fan grills good to know they exist
 
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I'm hydrophobic.
TEC's and quiet air cooling don't really go together.
Phase change looks like fun, but I am also condensation-phobic.

Air or bust! :)

Absolutely no seriousness here. This is all in the name of a good hobby that keeps me out of trouble.
 
why go with such large fans?????? I don't think your PC would look very atractive with large, bulky 10" fans on. That and the noise would be incredable loud. Go with smaller fans, you might need more of them but it will look and sound better in my opinion.
 
when you get large fans like that, the air pressure is very little, losing its effectiveness in cooling a PC

also, especially in PCs, DC power would be much more efficient

I strongly recommend against anything larger than 120mm in a PC

120 seems to be the sweet spot when cooling a PC
 
why go with such large fans??????
That and the noise would be incredable loud.
Go with smaller fans, you might need more of them but it will look and sound better in my opinion.
when you get large fans like that, the air pressure is very little, losing its effectiveness in cooling a PC
120 seems to be the sweet spot when cooling a PC
A friend of mine gave me a Hoffman 172mm AC fan he had kicking around. I jimmy rigged a duct onto it to my CPU, just for testing purposes. I can turn it WAY quieter than my 120mm's to get the same temps, and that's just an experimental installation. I don't know if the bigger, better, slower, quieter concept carries all the way to the 10" size, but I'm willing to search for cheap parts and find out.

I don't think your PC would look very atractive with large, bulky 10" fans on.
A 10" fan bolted to the side won't look slick and nice, but I'm far more interested in function than form. My finished work is always clean and neat. I can't disguise a 254mm fan, but it won't look like a total hack job when I'm done.

also, especially in PCs, DC power would be much more efficient
I realise that 12VDC fans are easier to wire in, but at the speeds I run my fans, DC fans start to have problems: higher voltage to kick them over (annoying, yes I know the capacitor trick), enough voltage to keep them turning, etc.
 
snowwie

That's untrue... The a lot of force to push throguh a heatsink or heatercore is needed. Not to move air into a computer... All you need is fresh air going in, you don't need any umph behind it whatsoever.

Way back in the day I used an 18" oscillating fan to cool this PII... That worked just fine.

**********

I seriously doubt you'll run into a fan that large of a diameter, and only be 25-40mm thick. IMHO That would be highly unlikely. Maybe come up with another plan...

You've got to remember, that fresh air is fresh air to the heatsink, be that because the fan is drawing it striaght from a duct to the outside, or outside air being blown all around it. I can't see you picking up much between a good designed duct and a huge fan.

If you're hell bent on it, Just do a duct, then another fan for the video/pci cards.
 
Just stick a huge regular fan (like the ones they sell at home depot and walmart) onto your case. Take off a panel and mount it to your case. Turn it on when you turn your computer on and poof, you now have a managable fan and you can crank it up as much as you feel necessary.
 
You're going to be very hard pressed to find a Caravel for under $50 US. Very few vendors stock fans this large, and as such, you probably wouldn't have too much luck with any vendor list. Your best option is probably to pick up one of the regular room or desk fans that you could find at Wal-Mart, and mod one of these into your case. It wouldn't be of any standard size, but at least it would be of a reasonable price. The cost of the 254mm specialty fans isn't really justified for what you're doing.
 
Toys:
I seriously doubt you'll run into a fan that large of a diameter, and only be 25-40mm thick.
It can be 1mm or 100mm thick. It doesn't matter. I just want to be able to put a rheostat on it and get the same airflow at quieter speeds; and getting larger fans (80mm -> 120mm -> 172mm so far) has allowed me to do that. I want to try 10" or larger fans next. Obviously, this is going to make the ducting.... interesting. My goal is to use one large fan to replace ALL of the less noise efficient smaller ones. ie, this will be the ONLY fan in the case.
I can't see you picking up much between a good designed duct and a huge fan.
If you're hell bent on it, Just do a duct, then another fan for the video/pci cards.
Well, currently my 120mm fans and ducts are doing well. I want to see if 10" fans takes me a step further.
My system specs:
IN THE BEGINNING...

I just went for CRAZY cooling, just for kicks, ignoring all noise considerations. The pic below is the result.
N8's%20old%20noise%20maker.jpg


EDIT: pic is older case design due to lack of digicam. I can post a pic of new setup through eyes of grainy PC cam, if you like.

Case = cheapest I could find, suitable for making mistakes with dremel
120mm fans = 5!!!!
Airflow = I dunno, close to windtunnel, I guess
Noise = could hear it upstairs
Weight = aircraft carrier anchor
Temps = REALLY COOL
Appeal to normal person = nil

INITIAL SETUP

Fans: Sunon KD1212PMB3-6A, 84CFM @35dBA
>> I don't recommend these fans, they've started to go on me
>> Regular 120mm @ 12V = way too loud and more air than you are going to need
>> Vantec Stealths should work much better, or any other slower turning, better quality fan
Fan filter: fine pore spiral shaped jobs found much cheaper at electronics stores than in the Startech bags at PC stores
Intake: 2x 120mm side and 1x 120mm front
Exhaust: 2x 120mm top and PSU
Equaliser: 80mm hole with 80mm fan filter in the back and hole under case front bezel, where bottom is chopped off. These are so that unequal fan 'pressure' can 'equalise', so to speak. IE, unequal fan 'pressures' aren't fighting each other as much.
Control: 2x PCMods 4 channel 6 Watt fanbus's (with shiny lights )
HS: Alpha PAL8045
Ducts: cerealboxes and tape
CPU: XP 1600+ Palomino @ 1.75V, 170MHz x 10.0, 50°C
Vid: Asus V7700 GF2 GTS @233MHz core and 411MHz Mem
RAM: Spektek 2x 128MB PC2700 @ 1:1 w/ FSB

EVOLUTION (all temps are full load temps for that component, and are approximate)

I noticed right away that the two top fans were doing close to nothing for the temps of any of my components (except, perhaps the top optical drive) so those were removed.
>> With the side and front on high (NOISY) the top fans could be off or full on, no difference in temps. With the side and front fans on low (quiet...), my component temps rised by about 2°C when the top went from full on to off.

DIALING IT IN (lowest speed means lowest possible after high voltage kick to get the fan spinning)

The lower side fan lowers the temp of my vidcard around 12°C from off to on it's lowest speed, and another 4°C from lowest speed to full on, so it just stays on lowest. More powerfull video cards would probably appreciate the extra cooling, but mine doesn't care.

Very similar story with my HDD and the front fan (temps with mobo temp probe), so it stays on lowest possible speed, too.

The CPU: I could crank up the upper side fan and core voltage and get around 1.8GHz out of it, but that's just noisy and mean to the little chip, so it runs as above with the fan at about 7V.

The front and lower front are so quiet, I can hear the PSU and HDD over them (reasonably quiet Enermax 300W dual fan and VERY quiet Fujitsu drive). The upper side fan is the loudest, and I can just hear the PSU and HDD with it on.

fubulg6000:
Just stick a huge regular fan (like the ones they sell at home depot and walmart) onto your case.
I already checked out regular house/office fans. The better ones are almost as pricey as 172 or 254mm fans, and their noise charactersitics, even at low speeds, are far worse than industrial type fans, such as Patriots and Caravels. This was my first thought, too; just for prototyping purposes. Even a 12" house fan has horrible noise levels WRT a 6" Patriot pushing the same amount of air. I guess it has to do with the better housing, bearing, blade shape, etc. However, I am still looking. There is a duct fan at home depot that's kinda pricey, but worth looking at.

LittlePiggie:
go caravel man!! I have one and it's loud and growls, but it adds that beasty flair :D
Thanks, YGPM!

Gautam:
You're going to be very hard pressed to find a Caravel for under $50 US.
I think you're quite right, but I am OK for cooling for now. This is just my next project, and the Caravel or equivalent is the main component to track down. So, I'll keep checking here and there for a quality cheapie. And if that doesn't pan out, I can get a Caravel locally for $60USA and that will have to do.

:thup: Thanks to everyone for assisting me with my strange aircooling hobby!
N8
 
OK, my affinity for overcooling is starting to lead down some strange paths:

w2e250t_dwglo.jpg

EBM Industries W2E250 Series

:D That's 12" of 1100 CFM power! Somebody stop me! I'm going to hurt something.

Seriously, this fan is obviously scarce and really expensive, at best! I'll keep looking for other stuff, but I had to post this one here; it was just too cool!

EDIT: haha "And for really hot days, I bypass the rheostat with this little switch here." Click.... Whoooooooosh!!! Case blows over, side panel pulls off and heads toward ceiling, fan grill is sucked in and blows out as nails, cartoon style.

:) I think it's time to contact my mental health professional.
 
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Actually, how come you havent' looked for a squirrel cage fan? Also known as a blower.

Did some research on them a while ago: Axial vs. Blower

A blower typically has approx. twice the static pressure WRT to equivalent size/cost/noise axial, but at zero static pressure, it will have approx. 1/4 the airflow. Since I am regulating large fans down to low airflow (compared to how much it could pump through at full voltage), I *beleive* that the static pressure imposed by HS's etc. is so low (again, for such a large fan) that the axials will far outperform the blower in air throughput.

I hope what I'm trying to say is clear. It makes sense to me, but this is a difficult concept to discuss without measurements, because the static pressure isn't zero (free space -> axial wins, no contest) and not infinity (fan exhaust completley blocked except for infinitessimally small hole -> blower wins, no contest). It's in between somewhere. I think that it is close enough to the zero end of the scale, that axials will always win in noise vs. ariflow competitions, when used the way that I am using them.

I know full well that I could be completely wrong!!! However, physically (2nd year University Physics) it makes sense to me. Also, enthusiasts all over the place are asking about blower fans and how good they are. The last couple of applications I saw for blowers by manufacuturers were noisy and ineffective WRT their axial counterparts. I think we would see a lot more blowers on the high performance HS's if they had better noise:airflow properties than axials.

Yes, I know I could be totally wrong. But I think blower tech has to evolve more for it to become more effective than axial in these types of applications.

Just my 3¢CAN,
N8
 
hehe, in jerry's today I saw a 1100 cfm "attic ventilator" that looked about 14". I'll look tomorrow a bit closer :)
 
How about using automotive radiator fans? I mean the fan that are use for air conditioning system in engine bay. It's 12V with great CFM. Its durability could last 10 years.

There are variations in diameter too, from small car's 10" to big cars 20" inches of fans. Maybe you need variable speed or lower voltage so it doesn't produce wind noise.
 
Personally I wouldn't sling something like that on the computer.

It will only take one small object to get in the fan and be thrown into the computer. I hope you plan on filtering and seriously toneing down the airflow.

IMHO large fans projects like this are a complete waste of everything you put into it. Time Money Hearing Effeciancy... Everything else falls in that catigory.

**********

The simple fact remains that you're not going to see better, if at all noticeable temps than you could with a good Duct mod, and a fan below that for AGP/PCI slots.

Save your money, buy 3 fans cut two holes make a duct and be done with the project.
 
Not to shoot it down entirely, but really at some point you have to step back and ask yourself is it worth it and what benifits are you going to see?

The answer from my prospective is absilutely none.
 
The Airflow Addict speaks:

LittlePiggie:
Please, tell me more about this Jerry fellow. Link, please. Googlized a few things; can't find a Jerry's selling fannage, ducting, and the like.

ASW:
True, durability in a dirty, vibrating engine probably is ten years. But the ones I've seen are designed more for cheap, noisy, indestructable, super CFM's than *quieter* noise efficient, lower CFM operation. Even the more expensive, better designed ones fall short. I think I would be happier with a $50 10" fan, such as the Caravel. Could be wrong, but I have never read a review of anybody modding a 'stick blade' fan onto a PC case (or anything else) and say "AND WHEN I TURN UP THE RHEOSTAT, IT GETS EVEN QUIETER!!!!" :) Thanks though. I guess the idea wasn't that crazy after all, since somebody else also thinks it might work.

Toys:
Your objections have been noted, but I will continue experimenting with larger fans until I deam the extra cost/mass/complexity/sheer size too prohibitive to continue. Remember:
1) This is an experiment all in the name of fun (you know what 'fun' is, right?). Fun is an ancient mankind ritual resulting in smilies :) and people doing happy dances :clap:
2) I am completely aware that the entire experiment may yield nothing. And I have a teddy bear and large box of super soaker kleenex in the house for when that happens. :D
2) Please read. Then reply. If you don't have time, at least look at the pictures. :rolleyes:
 
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