AMD 3000+ or 2800+ ??

[mitchelson]

Hi

Wow this si my first post, i got this site from Driverhaven where i visit almost every day, I have just bought my new FX5900 and my benchmark results in 3Dmark01 are shockingly BAD! :(

I am told its to do with my FSB (http://www.ben78.com/sys.jpg)

I weas going to go and buy a AMD 3000+ CPU tomorrow to fix my problem. Would any of you guys recommend the 3000+ or the 2800+?

Thanks for your help.

mitchelson.

[Gautam]

Welcome to the forums! You don't need to buy a new processor just to raise your front side bus. First of all, check the stepping of your 2200+. It will contain a five letter code, like AIUCB, AIUGA, etc. If it ends in an "A", you have a T-Bred A; not a very good overclock, and not really worth keeping. If it ends in a "B", then I would not suggest buying a processor, as your current one could be capable of the same speeds as the other two processors you mentioned. You can raise the front side bus through the BIOS, and lower the multipliers accordingly, for example, you could change your current setting of 13.5*133 to 11*166, for roughly the same clock speed, but a higher front side bus. In the event that you do wish to upgrade, the 2800+ would be a better value. You may also want to consider the 2500+.

[mitchelson]

Hi

Thanks for the msg. Here are my CPU properties:

CPU Properties:

CPU Type AMD Athlon XP, 1800 MHz (6.75 x 267) 2200+
CPU Alias Thoroughbred-A
CPU Stepping A0
L1 Code Cache 64 KB
L1 Data Cache 64 KB
L2 Cache 256 KB (On-Die, Full-Speed)

CPU Physical Info
Package Type 453 Pin PGA
Package Size 4.95 cm x 4.95 cm
Transistors 37.2 million
Process Technology 6Mi, 0.13 um, CMOS, Cu
Die Size 80 mm2
Core Voltage 1.50 - 1.65 V
I/O Voltage 1.6 V
Typical Power 44.9 - 61.7 W (depending on clock speed)
Maximum Power 49.4 - 67.9 W (depending on clock speed)

What shall i do? Do i need to buy a new chip?

[mitchelson]

If you had a choice from any AMD CPU with a 333 FSB what would you get, it has to have a 33 FSB coz my motherboard dont support anything higher?

I am very new to this game but love to learn, any info is very appreciated.

[Gautam]

Since you're planning an upgrade, I'd say that a new processor would be worth it to. There is more to 3dmark than the fsb, btw. A higher front side bus would help, but it wouldn't be light and day. Higher clock speeds are where gains are seen. I'd suggest a 2500+ over all other choices. Its far far cheaper, but can be overclocked just as well as the other Bartons.

[JDXNC]

May sound wierd to you but if you bought a 2100 you could probably overclock it to 2.3-3.4 Ghz which is faster than a 3000+

[mitchelson]

Ok i will do that.

I am new to overclocking - kinda scared of it too coz i dont know what i am doing! How do i overclock? What do i change? I have a program called Easytune4 for overcloking by gigabyte it confusses me!

If i overclock do i need cooling? I just bought a new fan which is in my sig.

[james.miller]

yes. overclock the nuts of that 2100+ fisrt. If it doesnt do what you want it to, then go out and buy a 1700+ dlt3c - 2.4ghz is easily within reach with one of those.

anyway a few questions first:

1) what are your idle and load cpu temps?
2) what speed is your ram? (pc2100,pc2700,pc3200 ect)

btw the vantec is a good sink - you should do quite well with it.

[mitchelson]

Hmmm...... so how come you woulldnt go for a 3000+ do they overclock well?

[james.miller]

honestly because there's no point.

the 1700+'s arent even 1/4 of the price of the 3000+'s and 3200+, and they are the best overclockers, regularly beating out amd's top cpu's with ease.

[Gautam]

Here (http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_186&products_id=1925&osCsid=6f0784bc63102e47bf59bbccd8a42b50) is a link to the 1700+. I wouldn't worry at all about temps. Stability is the only concern.

[mitchelson]

So if i overclock do i need cooling?

Is there a doco that i can read so i know what overclcok settings to use?

[james.miller]

we can tell you all you need to know, but first we need to know a few things about your setup. Could you answer those questions i posted?

oh btw, seeming as you have a kt400 board, i very much doubt you'll be able to run at 200mhz fsb - so the xp3200+ is out of the question anyway.

[mitchelson]

Yup fire away.

[mitchelson]

Sorry just read your post from before


Answer to question 1:

Sensor Properties
Sensor Type ITE IT8705F
Sensor Access ISA 290h
Motherboard Name Gigabyte 7VA Series

Temperatures
Motherboard 35 °C (95 °F)
CPU 39 °C (102 °F)

Cooling Fans
CPU 4561 RPM

Voltage Values
CPU Core 1.68 V
+3.3 V 3.33 V
+5 V 4.84 V
+12 V 12.10 V
+5 V Standby 5.16 V
DIMM VTT 1.30 V

Answer to question 2:

Motherboard Properties
Motherboard ID 01/14/2003-KT400-8235-6A6LYG0CC-00
Motherboard Name Gigabyte GA-7VA

Front Side Bus Properties
Bus Type DEC Alpha EV6
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 133 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 267 MHz
Bandwidth 2133 MB/s

Memory Bus Properties
Bus Type DDR SDRAM
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 167 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 333 MHz
Bandwidth 2667 MB/s

Chipset Bus Properties
Bus Type VIA V-Link
Bus Width 8-bit
Real Clock 67 MHz (ODR)
Effective Clock 533 MHz
Bandwidth 533 MB/s

Motherboard Physical Info
CPU Sockets/Slots 1
Expansion Slots 5 PCI, 1 AGP
RAM Slots 3 DIMM
Integrated Devices Audio
Form Factor ATX
Motherboard Size 200 mm x 300 mm
Motherboard Chipset KT400

Motherboard Manufacturer
Company Name Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.

[mitchelson]

Just wipped out the invoice for my pc and it says 512MB PC2700 333mhz stick

[mitchelson]

I have to hit the sack chaps..... its 1am! Thanks for your help. Although i have to make my decission tomorrow on my CPU purchase I'll check this page before i go to work.

If you have any othewr info on reccomendations do post em. My main purpose for the usuage of my PC is for Rainbow Six Ravenshield, Half Life 2 and Doom III ~ when they are released ;)

[stompah]

First your sig does not follow forum guidelines read here for more info. (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58341) Basically you cannot link to any site that are not related to overclockers.com. The last post will inform you best.

Second I am not quite sure of what you want. You want a faster FSB you want an overclock. You do realize that you are already running at 1800MHz up from 1533MHz?

You need to download Motherboard Monitor (http://www.majorgeeks.com/downloadget.php?id=311&file=2&evp=dffe30ee03ba4b9f1e0f6189e2e55389) also know as MBM. After setting this program up it gives you real time monitoring of temperature, voltage, CPU load, fan speed and more. This program is a must have.

Then you will need a CPU stress testing program like Prime95, CPU Stability Test or other. This will heat your CPU and stress it, if you arent overclocked too far then you will not get errors or reboots. if you get errors you eiother have passed the limit of your CPU or your CPU voltage isnt hiugh enough.


I will post back in a few with some better links.

[stompah]

OK read this thread for help on the basics of overclocking. (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83663)

Right now you have achieved an overclock by raising your multiplier and leaving your FSB at default setting. It would be better to raise the FSB rather than multiplier.

Dont give up on your current CPU just yet. While it is not a major overclocker it is respectable and is an excellent CPu for learning on since you didnt pay $200 for it. So if it breaks you havent lost alot.

[mitchelson]

I didnt realize the situation with links to other sites.. i have edited my sig now so they are removed.

Back to my CPU prob. I have motherboard monitor, and its great. My main probelm is that in 3dmark01 my scores are as low as 10000 which is a joke. I have seen guys getting in the 16000 +

One guy told me that it was my FSB, but when i change it my system crashes. So i thought i would go out and get an 3000+ CPU.

Do you think i need this chip or should i go with say a 2500+ and overclock it? Its not the $$ i am concerned about just the time and getting the job done right.

[james.miller]

Originally posted by james.miller
oh btw, seeming as you have a kt400 board, i very much doubt you'll be able to run at 200mhz fsb - so the xp3200+ is out of the question anyway.

1700 tbred+ or 2500+ barton. clock-for-clock, the barton just have the edge, but the 1700+ tbred overclock better on average. choise is yours.

[mitchelson]

That overclokn guide was great - thanks for that.

So why not go for a 3000+ over a 2500+?

[james.miller]

money, and the fact that 1700+'s overclock better.

[stompah]

Originally posted by mitchelson

One guy told me that it was my FSB, but when i change it my system crashes. So i thought i would go out and get an 3000+ CPU.
How drastic of a change are you making? Are you going from 133MHz to 200MHz with the same mult of 13.5? That would equate to 2700MHz which is very unlikely.

Your CPu voltage is only 1.68 dont expect much at that voltage. Try upping it to 1.75 and add a few MHz of FSB at a time.

So for now why not try 1.75v 13.5 mult and 140FSB and see what that gets you.

Overclocking is the art of deduction. Start with one component at a time. If you try to overclock everything at once and it doesnt work you have to trouble shoot your system one peice at a time. For now lets concentrate on CPU speed and worry about FSB later. Once we get the CPU speed maxed we can lower the mult and upp the FSB till we get errors. Then up the mult till you max your CPU speed and FSB at the same time. Overclocks dont always happen overnight ;)


Dont worry about the link issue you fixed it which shows you have respect for the rules which alot of people dont have.

Also its your money do anything you want with it. I suggest since its your first overclock wait a week and see what you can do.

[mitchelson]

Ok dude...... if i get this 1700 tomorrow can u tell what i need to set my BIOS settings to in order to get the MAX perfoemnce? Do i need to change voltages on anything or just FSB?

Is there a download guide on what to change?

[james.miller]

no. every cpu and every stick of ram is different - this is something you can only do by trial and error.

[stompah]

there isnt a guide of how to navigate BIOSes that I know of. Maybe I will write a quite guide today. Too bad my girlfriend has my digital camera.

[mitchelson]

Thanks stompah......

our msgs are delayed and my replies dont co-inside with yours!! :)

You made that sound very simple.... i'll do this now and see how i go. I'll be back in a min.

[stompah]

'tis ok

[mitchelson]

Ok... hrre is what happened...... I got thsi from Motherboard DIAG tool that u told me to get.

Motherboard Properties
Motherboard ID 01/14/2003-KT400-8235-6A6LYG0CC-00
Motherboard Name Gigabyte GA-7VA

Front Side Bus Properties
Bus Type DEC Alpha EV6
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 144 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 288 MHz
Bandwidth 2302 MB/s

Memory Bus Properties
Bus Type DDR SDRAM
Bus Width 64-bit
Real Clock 180 MHz (DDR)
Effective Clock 360 MHz
Bandwidth 2877 MB/s

Chipset Bus Properties
Bus Type VIA V-Link
Bus Width 8-bit
Real Clock 72 MHz (ODR)
Effective Clock 575 MHz
Bandwidth 575 MB/s

Motherboard Physical Info
CPU Sockets/Slots 1
Expansion Slots 5 PCI, 1 AGP
RAM Slots 3 DIMM
Integrated Devices Audio
Form Factor ATX
Motherboard Size 200 mm x 300 mm
Motherboard Chipset KT400

Did i do it right?

[mitchelson]

My idele temp has gone up 8 degrees. :(

Sensor Properties
Sensor Type ITE IT8705F
Sensor Access ISA 290h
Motherboard Name Gigabyte 7VA Series

Temperatures
Motherboard 35 °C (95 °F)
CPU 44 °C (111 °F)

Cooling Fans
CPU 4441 RPM

Voltage Values
CPU Core 1.78 V
+3.3 V 3.33 V
+5 V 4.76 V
+12 V 12.16 V
+5 V Standby 5.13 V
DIMM VTT 1.30 V

[stompah]

Yes you did good now your running at 1944MHz!

Anytime you increase voltage and/or frequency you will get a rise in temps. 44c isnt too high for idle (its not ready to explode in other words) It will likely raise to a hair over 50c if fully loaded. Again not likely to explode.

If you can try to touch your heatsink to make sure its not too hot to the touch. If you cant hold your hand there then its too hot. A good way to see if your temp sensor isnt too far off.

[Gautam]

My advice: Disregard temps entirely. When you get your new processor, just do a good job in applying your thermal compound, and only worry about stability. With an Aeroflow, temps are not going to be a concern at all.

[c627627]

Originally posted by mitchelson
That overclokn guide was great - thanks for that.
So why not go for a 3000+ over a 2500+?

Some of us make minimum wage...
3000+ is $244.00
2500+ $87

A weekly pay check's why. Of course go for the 3000+ if paying a premium for disproportionate gains is of absolutely no concern.

james.miller, you would go for 1700+ over 3000+ if they were priced the same? Better quality waffer is what you get with 3000+, so why would you want to do that?

[james.miller]

who said its better quality? really who?

the 1700's have the newest steppings, they overclock the furthest.

who cares if your $60 170+ only lasts 6 months at 2.5ghz? you could buy two more and it would STILL cost less than a 3000+ and perform very much better.

[mitchelson]

On a full load the CPu was just over 50 degrees... is this Ok?

This was when i benchmarked my FX5900..... my score was still crap, sitting at 11087 :(

I have seen ppl getting in the 16K +

[c627627]

Gautam, what was all that about waffer quality you were talking about,

+

just to clarify, james: if they were priced exactly the same you would choose 1700+ over, say 3200+??

[mitchelson]

Anywaz back to my problem!

stompah can you send me some clock frequency and voltages levels for a 1700+ CPU coz i'll pick one up tomorrow.

If they aint in stock i'll get a 2500+

[mitchelson]

Just ran Prime95 under a torture test and it heated up to 56 degrees is this still ok?

[Gautam]

Originally posted by james.miller
who said its better quality? really who?

the 1700's have the newest steppings, they overclock the furthest.

who cares if your $60 170+ only lasts 6 months at 2.5ghz? you could buy two more and it would STILL cost less than a 3000+ and perform very much better.

No one knows for sure what makes the 1700+ such a good overclocker, or even if it is one. One hypothesis of mine is that the 1700+'s are merely leftover 2600+'s and 2700+'s clocked down low and reduced in voltage due to market demand. The 2700+ does 2.17ghz at stock with 1.65. That's exactly what corresponds to what my DLT3C would do with a Thermalright SK6+, much better than stock. Whether the 1700+ truly is
superior to all others is something that only AMD knows for sure.

The 3200+ is most likely superior to all other AMD processors.
One person on these forums got one, and got up to 2.5ghz at the default of 1.65v. I have never seen any other processor perform that well in my life. The best 1700+'s do 2.5ghz with low 1.8v's. One thing that must be kept in mind is that if AMD's lower Bartons can do so well, the higher ones could very well do better. Not even the stepping code can indicate full information about the core's manfacturing process, at least not to our knowledge.

Mitchelson: Make sure that you can get a 1700+ DLT3C JIUHB. These are relatively rare, and unless you find a retailer that guarantees this particular stepping, hard to come by. If a 1700+ is not possible, the 2500+ would also be an excellent choice. Good 2500+'s and 1700+'s usually end up something like this:
1.65v-2.2ghz
1.7v - 2.3ghz
1.85v - 2.4ghz
1.9v 2.5ghz

But every processor is different, so it will be up to you to find exactly what voltage levels and speeds yours in particular will be happy at. Good luck and enjoy! :)

[mitchelson]

WICKED thanks dude.....

Help muchly appreciated...... i have printed out your info and it will be with me tomorrow for when i make my purchase.. i'll let you know how i went.

Ta :)

[stompah]

Make sure you get a 1700+ that defaults at 1.5 volts.

I havent seen any mention of thermal paste but if you dont have a good quality paste pick some up.

[mitchelson]

I just picked up a barton 2500+

I cant up the multiplyer at all....... the BIOS wont let me and easytune4 wont either. My board is GA7VA Can anyone help... thanks

[modenaf1]

http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/0103/welcometotheforums.JPG

mitchelson, click that.

the reason why is becuase your multi is locked and the board dosent recognize the 5th bit FID (frequency Identification)

you will have to do some bridgemod to get the multi working, but ill keep my mouth shut becuase all the bridge mods confuse me.