Alright i need help finishing off my new rig.....

[Creeping V]

well i finally got all the money im gonna use for my new rig. Here is what i already picked out:

Parts i picked out
P4 2.8 intel @ 800 fsb
Asus p4p800 deluxe mobo
1 gig of Corsair 3200 ram
9800 or 9700 pro depends mostly 9700 to save dough for future upgrades.

ok i need yall to help me with this because i dont even know whatelse i should buy....

I will probably just get a "ok" soundcard im using this as my gaming pc.

Also with these components i need to find out what kind of Psu i should get it needs to be able to handle these parts and water cooling.

Also does anybody got any suggestions on a good sized case (it needs to be pretty roomy) that already has water cooling in it? because i dont feel like putting the cooling in.....also it needs to have a side window with nothing on it.

also anybody got any suggestions on a cd drive and hard drive? i already got a cd drive but i might change it out and the hard drive needs to be pretty big...(CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY PEOPLE USE 2 HARD DRIVES)

K people i need your opinions because this is the first pc im putting together.....also um after the 4 things i picked up top i still have about $600 to spend on the pc.

thanks if u can help me even though most people wont......
:p

[BigJk-47]

I use 2 hard drives because I have the OS on one and my programs on the other.Why would I risk having all of my Mp3's ,Mpegs and other goodies being destroyed in a crash on 1 drive?

Sound blaster live X-gamer 5.1 is a decent card that is what I have and it works good on UT2k3.


Hard drive,Western Digital makes the best in my opinion....I would get at least and 80 gig.Thats the standard in my opinion today.

Liteon makes the best CD-Roms & DVD drives.

CompUSA sells cases with a koolance exos watercooling setup built in/installed.But if you want the best,install your own.

Antec or Sparkle for the PSU,sparkle 350 is enough for your setup,for antec i'd get a 400.

[MEMex]

Another great reason people have to hdd is for formating the main for some reason and using the second for storage so no need for 300 cd-rs.

Perhaps maybe a TV tuner? Nothing like browsing the forums and watching tv or listening to the radio with surround sound :D

[Creeping V]

yep

[fafnir]

have you bought those things yet?

like if you haven't i'd recommend an opteron or something.... its a 200us upgrade that'll proally be faster and better than the pentium so far....

if you're really looking for something cheap, go amd... they ARE cheaper.... e.g. barton 2500+, abit nf7-s 2.0....etc....

thats actually what i have and my handpicked barton does 2.5ghz... equivilent to some kinda maybe 3.3ghz or maybe 3.5ghz pentium... and its really cheap too... soo......

[stan03]

thats awsome go intel;) :D anyway... about the RAM do NOT get 3200LL ram, i repeat do NOT get the LL ram, its supposedly having trouble with the canterwoods.

[Creeping V]

Well i was gonna pick intel but i was thinking about amd but,Um i dont know what a 2500+ is equivelant too..... (so can u explain the numbers too me?) Well i really wanted to get a 3.0 ghz @800 fsb but i didnt wanna blow 400 bucks on a cpu now. How much did u pay for that Barton?(because i like the fact taht it is cheap and also that it is ecuivlant to a 3.3) Also um would it be better for a gaming rig???? idunno if ima overclock or not......just so yall know this is my first rig im building......(i will be putting water cooling in it)

btw i dunno what that opteron thing is u were talking about(explain plz)

Also where did u pick up that Barton at because I like.....:D

[thalzaar24]

AMD's cpu ratings are supposed to be what the equivilant Pentium would be. For example, an Athlon XP +2500 runs at 1.83Ghz, but the 2500 means that it will perform equivilant to a Pentium 4 2500Ghz.

This isn't necessarily correct, but they are pretty close. AMD's seem to overclock better in my opinion and are cheaper. Do some browsing in the AMD and Intel CPU sections of the forums to see which cpu overclocks better and what to look for if that's what you are looking to do.

[Creeping V]

ok im kinda lost on that....if it is a 2500 why doesnt it run at 2.5 instead of 1.8???? also do the front side buses change with amd cpu?

[thalzaar24]

It's basically AMD's way of bragging by saying, our 1.8ghz will perform the same as your pentium 2.5ghz.

In other words if you bought an AMD +2500 (which is clocked to run 1.8ghz) and put in a system, and then put a P4 2.5ghz in an identical system (other than processor and motherboard), benchmarked them both, they would had roughly the same score.

as for why they just don't say AMD 1.8ghz, i'm not sure. Probably just like i said before, to brag that thier slower clocked CPU, will perform just as well and a p4 running much higher.

EDIT - also wanted to say that those AMD ratings were done while the P4's were using the 400Mhz FSB. With the new 800Mhz FSB they have for the new P4's, i'm not sure that a AMD 3200 will perform the same as a pentium 3.2ghz.

[stan03]

I would still get the 2.8C:D some have it oced well over 3ghz

[Creeping V]

well i could wait for the 64 mb anthlon cpu coming in sept. but i heard it doesnt work with certain parts....like mobos

[Caffinehog]

Well, here's the issue with Opterons: The next generation will not be compatible with the old motherboards. That means, if you buy it now, an upgrade after next spring will mean a whole new motherboard. And the 64-bit windows you need for a lot of the extra opteron power? Not here yet, and it will be expensive at first. Of course, you COULD go linux. Ath the moment, only one opteron board has an AGP slot.

As far as socket A's go, you can have a good solid motherboard and processor for about $150. This will perform well.

But then again, a 2.4C or 2.6C P4, when overclocked over 3ghz, will beat almost any AMD at the moment.

On top of this, Socket A is dead. Right now, one of two things is going to happen: Either
A. There will be no more socket A cpu's produced that aren't produced now.
or
B. AMD will stretch it, with a couple more steppings and a processor or two, because hammer just isn't working out.

Of course there is a rumor that says current intel boards won't support the prescott CPU's, but it's certainly not confirmed. At the very least, prescotts will fit in most of the boards and the boards will be able to provide the proper voltage and amperage. There is no actual data either way saying they will or won't.

And a 3200XP is a bit slower than a P4 at 3ghz.

A 2.6C or 2.8C will overclock to 3.2ghz with little problem. But AMD is a ton cheaper.

Weigh your options.

[Creeping V]

See that is my problem.....I'm a newb to the computer world im trying to learn stuff here but u talk about this and this and im like "WHOA". But yea i saw tehre is a huge price difference between the intel p4's and amd's. I see alot of people here use amd but im thinking of getting a p4 2.8@800 fsb but i need to figure out how to overclock( how hard is OCing a 2.8 to lets say a 3.2 or a 3.4??)....because i want to be able to oc myself instead of getting my bro to do it because he is rarely in town.....

BTW when yall just started here where yall kinda lost because i know i am....:D

[fafnir]

ok, creeping v, its like this... intel is a bit faster (less that 1-2%), intel is maybe more "compatible" ??, intel is maybe more upgradable...

but, but,... the money you save by going amd IS the difference in cost for that 500 dollar case i was talking about....

and the watercooled amd IS also going to beat any intel's....

and besides, with something like a 50 dollar cpu and a 70 dollar board, who cares if you HAVE the money, and THEN you need to upgrade? you need to worry more about "now" and not some possible future that hasn't happened yet... cause none of us really knows what IS upgradable,... and what IS faster (maybe a bit if any) is also debatable, so why bother with that crap?

but cost savings are real... like as in more money left over to do just random stuff... e.g. like buy food....


see, first, you're in the u.s. right? if so, buy almost all ur stuff from either newegg.com or a large vendor off pricegrabber.com ....


also, the prices u're looking for are as follows,.... (from newegg.com )

recommended intel system:

1. Intel Pentium4 2.4 "C" 800 FSB Retail Boxed = 175usd
2. Abit IS7-G ( http://www.excaliberpc.com/ ) = 144usd
3. Corsair XMS Series (Twin Pack) TWINX1024-4000PT 1gb Kit = 390 usd
4. Western Digital Raptor 36GB SATA WD360GD (Primary C: Drive) = 140usb

recommended amd system:

1. AMD "Barton" Retail Boxed Chip = 90usd
2. Abit NF7-S 2.0 ( http://www.excaliberpc.com/ ) =109usd
3. Corsair XMS Series, Low Latency (Twin Pack) TWINX1024-3200LLPT 1gb Kit = 310 usd
4. Maxtor 160GB 7200RPM 6Y160P0 (PATA Version) =160usd

recommended opteron system:

1. AMD Opteron 1.4ghz = 294usd
2. Abit SK8N Retail = about 240usd (pricewatch.com)
3. Samsung 512MB PC2700 ECC Registered = 110usd (X2)
4. Maxtor 160GB 7200RPM 6Y160P0 (PATA Version) =160usd


p.s don't go serial ata with the nforce2 boards (amd), they yeild no real benfits and by the time u're upgrading, there'll be better stuff out there with better sata support for cheaper...


the opterons are expensive and are not exactly meant to overclock or anything... but having one when u're comparing systems to say like ur bro, it'll trump anything short of dual XEON's

you do save enough money with the amd system to get the difference in the 500 dollar case with watercooling compared to a normal case with a "kit" watercooling though...

btw, you're gunning for this:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/scanido/images/top.jpg

http://www3.sympatico.ca/scanido/images/pump.jpg

[fafnir]

that'd be the elite of both homebuilt watercooling and the amd's

can't get too much better than that,... an intel can look the same too.....

http://www3.sympatico.ca/scanido/images/desk.jpg

http://www3.sympatico.ca/scanido/images/drives.jpg

[Creeping V]

YEah THATS THE SYSTEM!! that was the system that looked very nice and clean that it was aiming for. But Would anybody be able to pull that off??(not same specs but sorta the same look)

[stan03]

that is his system i believe;) so yes it must be possible.:D oh and i also believe intel cpus beat amd cpus by more than 1-2 percent (not the opterons tho)

[Caffinehog]

Overclocking can be simple, or it can be as tough as you want it to be.

Overclocking an Intel is simple. You increase the FSB. It will be in the bios listed as 200 for a 2.4C, or any C series processor. The FSB times the multiplier is the frequency. And multipliers are locked in intel cpu's. So for a 2.4C, the multiplier is 12. 12X200=2400. Increasing the fsb overclocks it. 12X233=2796mhz. Get the idea?

One thing you'll probably need to do is change the cpu:mem ratio.
At 1:1, the FSB is 200 and the memory runs at 200mhz. At 6:5, the fsb is 200 and the memory runs at 166mhz. Now, maybe you have a memory stick that will only run at or below 200mhz. You could change to a 6:5 ratio and run your cpu at 240fsb, while your memory only ran at 200fsb.

With intel, the stock heatsink will probably be enough for now... you will probably want to go with a better one later, though.

If you check here (http://www.cpudatabase.com/CPUdb/), you can see that 2.4C's are hitting an average of 3.3ghz and 2.6C's are hitting an average of 3.5ghz.

You'll also notice that AMD's hit, on average, about 2.3ghz, which is about the equivalent of a 3ghz P4. There are some stronger areas and some weaker areas, so don't think everything will perform the same on a 2.3ghz AMD and a 3ghz P4.

With AMD, you also have the option of unlocking or manually adjusting the multiplier. But they put out a lot more heat. So an Intel will reach 3.2ghz or better on stock cooling, but an AMD will generally require at least a $30 cooler to hit 2.3ghz. (There are always exceptions. Don't flame me.)

[fafnir]

ok so it boils down to this,.... intel or amd, ur choice.... and btw, thats not my system... my system is as neat, but based on koolance parts, (exos), but all built in,... like rad mounted in a clean cut hole on the top.... (and i have a better monitor, <widecreen 16:9 lcd with a better res> that i got for pretty cheap and i have a better mouse and i don't use pda's....)

but anyways...

can't really help with the amd vs intel choice cause i can't really say... but they shouldn't be that different....

however though... if u're getting opteron, don't go watercooling cause it'll be pretty hard finding a block that fits on it... (need them socket 940 mounting holes) there's only two blocks that work so far,... a thermaltake aquarius,... (moderate-worse performance, but beats air in terms of quietness/heat capacity,.. total kit with everthing including reliable 12v pump with easy to wire wires is like 120usd) and the waterchilll kit by asetek... it'll have to be mail ordered from europe and its expensive... it performs nicely though..... get a zalman 7000 flower sink,... those are near silent and perform nicely too....

so basically, then opteron's are faster, but'll cost more... think abou it that way....

amd's are cheap, and intel's are, well, <easier>... maybe....

i'll take pics of my system if you want though... you'll like my system too... and mine is faster that the one in the pics too... but runs like 20 celcius hotter though.... and mine IS silent too....


and also, i still recommend the comserver case i was talking about... you shouldn't reget it if you got it,,... and you also need ecc registered ram for the opterons too... sooo....

[fafnir]

and for your water idea from the other post, if you run high quality antifreeze and mix in a high percentage,.. like say 1/5 parts equal then you shouldn't ever need to change water....

cause it should run for "30000 miles before you need new motor oil and coolant"

[phpguru]

Save yourself some money and go with onboard sound. You won't be able to tell the difference. As for the power supply, you can get the Fortron 350w that has a 12cm fan to keep things quiet. For dvdrom and cdrw, I trust Lite-on as they have a very good rating.. with high spin noise. For case.. hrm.. I'm selling a Pc-65 no watercooling with tons of mods if you want it ;) otherwise I recommend one case i found on ebay Lian-li PC-67 w/ watercooling. I don't have much experiences with cases w/ watercooling. You probably want to take advice from others.

phpguru