Oil-Submerged Computer (PICS!!)

[Snokamel]

Something that might interest you all. I'm still working on making it look a lot nicer, but it is very functional and stable. Very quiet for the amount of cooling it provides. Temps on the Athlon MP's can get up to the low 50's C, but that will probably be fixed by using a better fan on the pelt heatsink assembly. Questions? Comments? Enjoy the pics:

Page 1 (http://www.qubcafe.com/sordac/sordac.html)

Page 2 (http://www.qubcafe.com/sordac/sordactwo.html)

(SORDAC= Submerged Operation Dual Athlon Computer):D

[IR1]

WOW :eek:

And.... how are the temp? OC ability?

And.... is it a good idea to keep CPU fans on there? To they struggle to spin in the oil? Or is the oil relatively viscous?

[Ben721]

Absolutely awesome!

Can we have more info like load temperatures and all that stuff?

[Snokamel]

Unfortunately, OC options on a dual system are limited- FSB is the only thing that's adjustable. The default is 133 Mhz. Windows is stable at 138, so that's what I run. Not much of an OC, I know. This gives me around 1750 very very hot Mhz per processor though, which is what insipred this idea. At these speeds the temperature hits the mid 50's during 100% load for each processor and then stabilizes. Idle hangs around the mid 40's. The oil is just a few degrees lower in both cases- my first observation about oil cooling was that case temps are much higher and CPU temps are much lower than they would be with an air cooled system.

The CPU fans run MUCH slower in the oil, even though I'm using food-grade mineral oil that's as thin as water. I'm talking about 300-400 RPM...I can almost see the individual blades moving. They might not be doing much for cooling in oil as they would in air, but they probably help with circulation and will look pretty interesting when I find a clear tank to replace the opaque one I'm using now.

[WejRepus]

thats pretty cool!

[stan03]

you are going to go through a lot of fans:D but wow, that is awwwsome.:clap:

EDIT: will a tank for fishies work?:D

[Snokamel]

I've been looking for a fish tank that's small enough for this system- they are apparently pretty scarce. If anyone has a clear 14"L x 12"W x 6"D tank they wouldn't mind parting with, I would be very interested. Also, does anyone know of a species of fish that can live in oil? If I got my hands on some, I would certainly have to remove the CPU fans ^_^

[modenaf1]

WOW!!! AWSOME! :thup: :thup:

[nealric]

coolness

interesting idea.

why not get an immersion chiller on that sucker and get freezin temps :D

[Big_Baller]

What type of oil do you use?

[NiTrO bOiE]

Nice mod/cooling.

[bubba gump]

Originally posted by Big_Baller868
What type of oil do you use?

Originally posted by Snokamel
The CPU fans run MUCH slower in the oil, even though I'm using food-grade mineral oil that's as thin as water.
:D

Fold and Frag on
Brian

[z1bluecat]

Very Sweet setup for a dual proc system! Once you find a clear case for it all do show us some pics!

[Lord_Zoltan]

that looks sweet.

WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!!:p

[Chris_F]

Thats awsome :D

[Snokamel]

Thanks for all the responses! I left the pelt and pump running while I was at work today. Got back, booted up. Processors are 30 C a piece at load, oil is 25 C. It's cheating, I know, and in a few hours the temps will be much higher, but I'm thinking that I could just leave the pelt and pump running 24/7, so that the oil is being cooled when the computer isn't on. Only downside will be my energy bill :rolleyes:

[q149]

Good job.. I think you would get lower temps with that cooling without the oil though. I saw a review on Pimprig.com of some oil stuff like this.

[Snokamel]

I don't see how the cooling system could work without oil...do you mean if I used a peltier chilled watercooling system?

[Barnstormer]

I have been thinking about a divided fishtank, with water on the front side and oil in the back, with the MB submerged in it. It would look like the fish and computer were in the same thing, and still work (and not kill the fish)

[q149]

Well, you would get better temps with just the pelt aircooled with those HSF if they can handle it, or even with just the HSFs on air.

[Ducker]

:eek: WOW!!!! :eek: This is way cool!!! :cool:

[Soja]

Very cool. What about building your own plexi or poly tank?

[PalominoBURN]

what kind of oil? mineral spirits?

[Snokamel]

The oil I use is the 70-FG food grade from this place (http://www.steoil.com)

q149, you raise a good point- the layer of oil between pelt and cpu certainly reduces efficiency, but the two cpu's on my board are so close together that it would be impossible to mount any really good heat sinks, definitely not the Swiftech 4000 I'm using. Also, the oil cools the entire computer, not just the cpu's, which eliminates the need for lots and lots of fans.

I was considering building my own clear tank, but quickly threw that idea away after working to attach the two pieces of lexan that serve as the lid and mobo plate. Waterproofing a tank and getting perfect 90 degree angles for the sides would be quite a bitch ^_^.

[XJ]

um, is it me or is only the bottom half of that thing submerged. What is the point if you've only submerged half of it? its not a true crazy mod until you get that whole think sunk into the oil, throw a few fish in their aswell....you know......for fun...

[CrystalMethod]

Good job! Wish I had the time and money to invest in something like that. I think you might get slightly better temps if you used a different designed heatsink. Something with the fins not so closely together. Just my $0.02.

[thalzaar24]

That's a crazy lookin design! hehe Gratz on the setup, but i'm just curious on how it actually works to cool and what the purpose of the oil is in the design.

not trying to downgrade your idea, but i'm really curious on how this works to cool a cpu. any place i can read up on this? I've never heard of this before hehe. :D

[Robrules18]

could you dilute the oil with water or would it make the oil too conductive???

and heres sopmething close to your specs you may be able to tack on some rods to your base to make it fit if its tii big:

http://www.petsmart.com/fish/shopping/aquariums%5F%5F%5Fbowls/small%5Ftanks/products/product%5F7294.shtml

and i find it easier to to cut a channel for one board and then screw it together and seal it with silicone when making airtight 90 degree angles with acrylic.

[drunkmonkey]

I don't get it... What is the purpose?
I must commend you on your enginnering though, it looks cool.

[WaterDream]

Good job. Something you can tell your grand kids.

[Tc3 Toad]

Why dident you submerge the harddrive's? Arnt they air tight?

[Diggrr]

harddrives have little vent holes...submerging would kill 'em. Though I believe Beppy was working on hanging them into the oil in zip lock bags, that's not something I'd do.

Great job there. If I could settle on one idea, I may join the submerged few, but selecting just one design out of the many in my head is hard...

One thing I wonder though, if you switched to a 15 mm thick fan, wouldn't they perform better in the viscous fluid? If only you could find one with only 5 blades.

[jrdobbs]

Cool, what a great idea.

[PunkRawk911]

Originally posted by Robrules18
could you dilute the oil with water or would it make the oil too conductive???


Oil and water DON'T mix, the water would just sink to the bottom of the tank and the oil would float on top.

[Snokamel]

Hey, thanks again for all the interest. To answer thalzaar24's question, the main idea behind this setup is that oil conducts heat much better than air. This is the same principle behind watercooling, except that in my setup, the entire computer is basically encased in a waterblock. What this means are pretty good temps, but more importantly, very low noise (no case fans, CPU fans are silent in oil), and, once I get a clear tank (Eclipse system looks very promising, thanks!), a computer that looks like it's submerged in an aquarium. I'll definitely be adding the pebbles and plastic treasure chests to the bottom. This is definitely NOT the most practical cooling solution, as the tank is pretty heavy and you can't open the computer to fiddle with stuff whenever inspiration strikes (this might actually be a plus ^_^). Beppi's design, although much larger than mine, was a big inspiration.

As for mixing water with the oil, this is something I actually work very hard to prevent! Whenever the oil goes below ambient, which happens sometimes when the computer's idle, condensation forms on the surface. These little beads fall to the bottom of the tank and have the potential of shorting out my whole system, so I have to shut everything off and siphon the water out- not fun. I recently sealed the tank, and condensation seems to be down, but it's still a concern.

[Blueacid]

Err, that condensation problem sucks... could you fix the problem by raising your motherboard UP, so that you can get away with up to, say 2 inches of water there, before you need to worry?

Other than that, sweeeet mod! Well done!

[CrashOveride]

Do thos CPU fans actually push the oil? I would expect them to do a bad job at it and die quickly... you might want to do somthing to make sure they don't die or find out if the fans help at all.

[dreammmatt]

here is an idea - go to a military contractor, preferably one that makes radar systems (or just the cooling jackets) and ask if you can have some of their Hydroflueral ether (HFE) - a non-conductive breathable liquid that you can have fish in. It is used for cooling the radar systems, and they dispose of some because it is used for testing purposes. I know this because of the place my dad works at - I was going to see if they could give me some that they dont want anymore ^_^. (it runs about $500/gallon, and is made by 3M - 3M had frogs in a tank of this stuff when they were showing it off)

[Lord_Zoltan]

Originally posted by dreammmatt
here is an idea - go to a military contractor, preferably one that makes radar systems (or just the cooling jackets) and ask if you can have some of their Hydroflueral ether (HFE) - a non-conductive breathable liquid that you can have fish in. It is used for cooling the radar systems, and they dispose of some because it is used for testing purposes. I know this because of the place my dad works at - I was going to see if they could give me some that they dont want anymore ^_^. (it runs about $500/gallon, and is made by 3M - 3M had frogs in a tank of this stuff when they were showing it off)

that would be sweet stuff to have in a plexi glass case lol, your computer and fish :D

[jrdobbs]

I have an Idea... it would take a bit of work... but it would be cool.
the clear case that are sold with no mounts... http://www.2cooltek.com/clear/clear1.jpg
make sealed mounts for HDD, CDROM, PS unit, etc.

seal the case... then fill it with oil...

I think that would be sweet :drool:

M2

Edit: Sorry Lord_Zoltan... was editing when you posted...!Zoltan!

[JusDenny]

That's really nice work! For a clear tank, you're obviously craftsman enough; Have you thought of building your own? You could use the same stuff an aquarium is made with. That way it's gonna be the size you want. Also, a submerged aquarium pump would circulate the oil better, and silently, while giving you an easy way to move the oil out of the tank, though a cooler, and back again.

As for the condensation; The fuel filters that are used for diesel fuel will allow the mineral oil through while stopping the water. You can buy complete mountable filter units at diesel repair shops that are clear, with taps on the bottom to drain off the water that accumulates. One of those filters can last 50 or 60 thousand miles on a semi truck that's using dirty fuel. So it should last for the lifetime of your comp.

[moz_21]

Originally posted by CrashOveride
Do thos CPU fans actually push the oil? I would expect them to do a bad job at it and die quickly... you might want to do somthing to make sure they don't die or find out if the fans help at all.

Maybe take a water pump and point hoses over each heatsink to get the oil flow over them?
Just a thought.

[modenaf1]

Originally posted by Snokamel
I don't see how the cooling system could work without oil...do you mean if I used a peltier chilled watercooling system?

arent you already using a peltier to cool the oil?

[nan0_man]

Originally posted by Robrules18
could you dilute the oil with water or would it make the oil too conductive???

Are you serious?

[Snokamel]

Well, there seems to be some confusion...I'm gonna pretend I'm a drop of mineral oil: I start my journey at the pump's inlet, at the very bottom of the motherboard. I'm sucked into the pump and whisked through a tube to the top of the tank, and eventually into the waterblock. The waterblock is cooled by the cold side of the peltier, so while I'm in the block I get a lot colder. Then I'm pushed out of the block, back into the tank, and leave the outlet hose right over the CPUs. These heat me up a whole lot, but I eventually drift across the tank and back down to the pump, where the cycle repeats.

[merlinx29]

Awsome!!! now thats extreme modding!!!!

[Ktulu]

omg thats freaking wicked cool!

maybe instead of treasure chests you make it look like a submarine base type thing?

[drunkmonkey]

Why not get some kind of refridgeration to cool the oil? Usually the whole submerged thing is used when u wanna refridgerate the whole system and not have to worry bout condensation (btw, why not just make an apron @ the top to direct water to the sides than have a valve @ the bottom to drain the water)

[pablopelotas]

looks good

[star882]

PimpRig has something similar at: http://www.pimprig.com/modules.php?s=&name=Sections&sop=viewarticle&artid=137 .

[Blueacid]

Originally posted by drunkmonkey
why not just make an apron @ the top to direct water to the sides than have a valve @ the bottom to drain the water

Thats a good idea, just a slanted piece of perspex fitted at the top of the tank, with a gap at the lowest end, so that the water molecules would all fall down at one end of the tank...

http://www.aptv48.dsl.pipex.com/forum/oilsubdcomp.gif

[ajrettke]

Oh another thing you could have if you wanted to chill your oil is have it slant down into a corner and put a drain. Leave some breathing room for your components i.e. 2-3" would be plenty and just drain the water when you get a chance, would be pretty simple to setup and all.

You said it yourself it's not the most practicle, but if we were practicle we'd all buy honda's and dells.....*shudder*

Hell of a job!!!!!I'd say throw in some more pelts...and tornado's in the water...hell a silent tornado!?!?!? yeah id probably burn out fast but saying you have like 10 tornado's in your computer and it's running at like 28db(from your PSU and outside fans) or whatever

[Snokamel]

I like the anti-condensation ideas. I'm thinking of using the plastic sheet idea but replacing it with a hard piece of acrylic that will be fitted with a pvc pipe at the low end. This pipe will keep all water separated from the oil and will have a tap at the bottom for occasional drainage. I'd like to add more pelts, but there is really no more room on the top of the case, and I would need to buy a more powerful psu. Also, if I were trying to seriously chill the oil I should probably insulate the tank somehow to increase efficiency. Keeping the oil around ambient seems to work the best though.

[Labotomy Jack]

could you dilute the oil with water or would it make the oil too conductive???
I don't think that would work as oil and water don't mix, the water would settle to the bottom and the oil rise to the top (or vice versa).

[Snokamel]

...yeah ^_^

[jagid]

INSANE!!!

I think this deserves an overclockers.com write up.

[Snokamel]

It's been a few weeks with this system and I'm starting to get bored. The next thing I want to add is a radiator that the oil will pass through right before it reaches the chiller. I was looking at the small radiators designed for watercooling setups, but then I found this (http://www.absoluteradiator.com/TransOilCoolers.asp) (Fluidyne 20mm Multiflow Transmission Oil Cooler) I've never seen a radiator like this before, and was wondering how it performs, cuz it would look sweet bolted to the back of my soon-to-exist custom acrylic tank ^_^. The radiator would be passive, no fans at all, but it should still help to bring temps closer to ambient before the oil hits the pelt/ waterblock. Does anyone have any experience with these radiators?

[KLowD9x]

If this is a completly submerged system, and I believe it is...the rubber seals on the bottoms of the capacitors on the board will start to swell, and eventually pop. Maybe if you, if its not too late, put a bead of silicone around the bottom of the caps, you can protect them from bursting and have a long life, oil cooled system.

[wymjym]

Originally posted by Snokamel
Whenever the oil goes below ambient, which happens sometimes when the computer's idle, condensation forms on the surface. These little beads fall to the bottom of the tank and have the potential of shorting out my whole system, so I have to shut everything off and siphon the water out- not fun. I recently sealed the tank, and condensation seems to be down, but it's still a concern.


Well I'm looking into doing a submerged system and using pelts for cooling along with some jets of chilled oil squirting onto the mosfets.
I may be the only person to use these (I never see anyone else even mention them) but VPC pelt controllers (http://www.techcool.com/vpc/photo.htm) would allow you to set the temp you want the oil at and then the vpc would control the pelts output to maintain that temp.....no more condensation. I have been using a couple on my pelt (water)chiller for over a year now. You can see it here (http://westech.home.mindspring.com/chiller/mychiller.htm)
wj

oh yeh...how much oil did you use? Funny thing is that company is about a 25 minute drive from me so if I can buy it direct...I will.

[JDXNC]

Originally posted by Labotomy Jack

I don't think that would work as oil and water don't mix, the water would settle to the bottom and the oil rise to the top (or vice versa).

Not entirely correct. If you have ever been to/worked in a machine shop.... what do they use to cool the tools? A mixture of water & oil :D Its a special mix, not sure how they do it, but it looks like milk and doesn't seperate. I'm not sure if it is conductive though.

[moz_21]

Originally posted by JDXNC


Not entirely correct. If you have ever been to/worked in a machine shop.... what do they use to cool the tools? A mixture of water & oil :D Its a special mix, not sure how they do it, but it looks like milk and doesn't seperate. I'm not sure if it is conductive though.

Its like water in the oil in a car - the oil's additives absorb it and the oil turns white. It's because of the additives that it turns white, I don't think that mixing it around would have any effect other than getting all of the oil white.

[Th3?MadC0w]

This is a very cool mod, with many good ideas, however, i see one possible flaw inherrant in the design, your pump intake is at the bottom of the tank, and heat rises, which means you hottest oil is at the top of the tank, while you are sucking in your coolest oil. it seems that the mobo should be mounted with the cpu's at the bottom, and the pump sending the hottest oil from the top of the tank to the chiller, plus the natural flow of the hot oil rising will help your pump, but as it is now, your pump is fighting the natural flow of the oil.

[Tyranos]

Pretty cool project, but I think that a normal chilled water cooling system would probably be a lot better. This type of thing has been tried with 3m's flourinate and cooled with liquid nitrogen. It had ok temperatures, but the liquid gelled and didn't flow well. You have chances of the oil penetrating the board and its components, breaking them down and killing them structurally as well.

[Banyan]

that is completely insane

[Diggrr]

'Bout time I chimed in with a thought or two...

Since your cpu fans run super slow, and the liquid density might give some problems flowing through the heatsinks, why not make shrouds to replace the fans and pump oil to them directly without the fans.
I'm pretty sure your pump would do a far better job of pushing the oil through the heatsinks than the fans are.
You could do just one cpu and have a temp comparison, and if you like it, just use a 'Y' splitter to include them both.

You could also make a standoff shroud so that pelt heatsink's fan has better flow over the central pins, that might drop your pelt temps some, and your oil temps would follow.


Awesome system. Love Pioneers.

[gone_fishin]

Nice project.
Instead of using the hsf on the pelt, try another waterblock on there with a seperate watercooled loop to cool down the pelt better. You would need a second pump, block and radiator. There must be a lot of heat you need to remove from the peltier's own output plus the dual system, upwards of 400watts as a guess.

[Lord_Zoltan]

Originally posted by jrdobbs
I have an Idea... it would take a bit of work... but it would be cool.
the clear case that are sold with no mounts... http://www.2cooltek.com/clear/clear1.jpg
make sealed mounts for HDD, CDROM, PS unit, etc.

seal the case... then fill it with oil...

I think that would be sweet :drool:

M2

Edit: Sorry Lord_Zoltan... was editing when you posted...!Zoltan!
Hey no prob.

Have you tried using a waterblock on the pelt instead of the HSF?

EDIT: Gone_Fishin, sorry i didnt read your post , i just relised you mentioned the same thing as me.

[Snokamel]

Hey, the oil rig's been running for about a month now, but I've pretty much overhauled it during this time. I'm working on a new website with lots of pics now, but basically I got a much bigger Iwaki external pump, a big auto heatercore that I run the oil through before the pelt, and a 120mm fan cooling the pelt's heat sink. I also put some windows into the tank, so it's possible to see the oil flowing over the (now fanless) cpu heatsinks. It will all make more sense in the pics. Stay tuned!

As for the idea of cooling the pelt with another water loop, I considered this, but a second pump would make the computer use up a total of four (!!) AC sockets, not including my 2 monitors, external optical drive, and printer. also, it would make the thing way too big. The addition of the passive heatercore into the oil loop takes a lot of the stress off the pelt, so that the oil hitting the cpu's is usually below ambient.

[Lord_Zoltan]

Originally posted by Snokamel
Hey, the oil rig's been running for about a month now, but I've pretty much overhauled it during this time. I'm working on a new website with lots of pics now, but basically I got a much bigger Iwaki external pump, a big auto heatercore that I run the oil through before the pelt, and a 120mm fan cooling the pelt's heat sink. I also put some windows into the tank, so it's possible to see the oil flowing over the (now fanless) cpu heatsinks. It will all make more sense in the pics. Stay tuned!

As for the idea of cooling the pelt with another water loop, I considered this, but a second pump would make the computer use up a total of four (!!) AC sockets, not including my 2 monitors, external optical drive, and printer. also, it would make the thing way too big. The addition of the passive heatercore into the oil loop takes a lot of the stress off the pelt, so that the oil hitting the cpu's is usually below ambient.
iNTERESTING!
Cant wait to see the website

[Snokamel]

ok, new site's up. enjoy!

the SORA project (http://earth.prohosting.com/soraproj/FRONT/front.html)

[Lord_Zoltan]

Originally posted by Snokamel
ok, new site's up. enjoy!

the SORA project (http://earth.prohosting.com/soraproj/FRONT/front.html) Nice job on the site, i really like it and your setup. Sorta makes sence...