9500 non-pro or 9600 Pro

[AntmanMike]

I am concidering buying an ATi card (first one since my old Rage 128).

I have read the past discussions, and you guys seem to take one simple queston and put it into 10 pages of arguements. If you argue on this thread, I will simply report you to a moderator. I only want to know which one I should buy. I can afford EITHER.

9600 Pro
9500 Non-Pro.

Please make the discussion brief, and don't say 'Pay the extra money for a 9800 Pro' or crap like that.

[james.miller]

well. honestly most arguement are caused by difference of opinion, which everybody is entitled to. Reporting people for that is wrong. Having said that, however......

9600pro, no question. it's slightly slow than a 9500pro if both are way overclocked BUT is a good deal faster than a 9500non-pro.

If you want to try to get a moddable 9500non-pro then go ahead, but the chances are slim.

quite honestly, the 9700non-pro is the best bang for buck right now, but i wont reccomend that, because you dont want me to........

[Quest For Speed]

It really depend on what you plan on doing. Big gamer or general usage? I agree the 9600pro is a good choice, especially for games. It runs cooler, clocks higher and outperforms a un-modded 9500.
If the non modded 9500 meets your requriement it will save you a few dollars and IF it does mod then that is just icing on the cake.

[AntmanMike]

I am a heavy gamer who loves to overclock (hence the reason ive been here since 2001).

As long as its not a huge risk to the card (i do not consider overclocking or some minor hacks to be risks since i can usually do them without screwing up.), I will do mods like the Radeon 9500np to 9700.... the problem is, if i get a 9500np that cant be modded, I was better off with a 9600, and I only have enough money for one of em.

Also, if I choose to take the gamble on the mod, which of the cards in this wishlist should I choose:

http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishHistoryReview.asp?position=HISTORY&submit=VIEW&ID=366010

I like the BLACK PCB one, but its only 128bit RAM, and the BGA chips are in a line, not an L...

[mattspalace]

good luck finding 9500's with "L" shaped memory. They're getting very hard to find anymore (especially new).

[AntmanMike]

on my wishlist there is a Sapphire Box OEM 9500, in the picture, it is red with "L" ram. Unfortunately, its description says 128bit 128mb RAM.

[El<(')>Maxi]

Thats exactly the one you want for the softmod.
I was able to clock my 9500np all the way to 394/317 without the softmod, and scored near 14,671. System @ 2190mhz

Now if you search the orb..........the highest score for a 9600 is 14,263 on AMD platform. That system is running at 2443mhz.

Then there's this score (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6679916) that is from a system almost identical to mine with a pretty heavy card overclock, and he scored only 13,098.

So, I would go with the 9500np(SAPPHIRE) based on this. And if it softmod's, you can add another 2-3K to your scores.

:p

[AntmanMike]

and there is a 50% success rate?

Good thing NewEGG has a money return policy for those cards (you have to exchance for the same card on the 9600s).

[El<(')>Maxi]

50%--40%--30%, whats the diffrerence. It's still a gamble.

[Quest For Speed]

The Sapphire ATI OEM RADEON 9500 128MB DDR BULK for $141 is the card you want if you want to gamble on the 9500np. It states 128 but it is 256bit memory bus. Had mine for a week and it runs perfect softmodded at 380/310.

[IR1]

I see you have some sort of dislike for Microsoft. So do you run Linux? If you do... you should know ATI cards dont have great Linux driver support.

I am just assuming someone who seems to hate MS wouldnt be using Windows. Correct me if im wrong.

[AntmanMike]

im running Server 2003. I just hate microsoft, that doesnt mean i hate the product.

I couldnt get Linux to work on any video card. Even a Geforce 2 ULTRA.

[TheGr8s1]

I'd take the gamble with a 9500np. Just cuz that's the kind of person I am. Nothin ventured nothin gained.

[james.miller]

Originally posted by El&lt;(')&gt;Maxi
Thats exactly the one you want for the softmod.
I was able to clock my 9500np all the way to 394/317 without the softmod, and scored near 14,671. System @ 2190mhz

Now if you search the orb..........the highest score for a 9600 is 14,263 on AMD platform. That system is running at 2443mhz.

Then there's this score (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6679916) that is from a system almost identical to mine with a pretty heavy card overclock, and he scored only 13,098.

So, I would go with the 9500np(SAPPHIRE) based on this. And if it softmod's, you can add another 2-3K to your scores.

:p
indeed. here's one of my scores at 1.9ghz with my softmodded r9500 with a small o/c - 13,974 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6694723)

[El<(')>Maxi]

Sweet......but crank that puppy up James !

:p

[james.miller]

oh i will - but my ram is limiting me to 160mhz fsb. even at 2.17ghz, with 160mhz fsb and the same on on my card, i only get 14,362 points (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6750355)

so thats:

1907mhz, 200mhz fsb:13,974 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6694723)
2168mhz, 160mhz fsb:14,362 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6750355)

you can see just how much the fsb affects the score (and the reason why i've just ordered some twinmos pc3200;)

[New2me]

I really haven't been following this 9500np mod saga so bear with me, my Q is what actually determines if it will mod or not?

I'm guessing it would be the same PCB as a 9700 (L shaped Ram), so hardware wise they are the same?

What's stopping ALL 9500np from successfull modding?
For example with the Intel Springdale chipset PAT was disabled only to be re-enabled through updated bios. No gamble here, why?

An explanation would be great thanks!

[Mustanley]

Originally posted by IR1
I see you have some sort of dislike for Microsoft. So do you run Linux? If you do... you should know ATI cards dont have great Linux driver support.

I am just assuming someone who seems to hate MS wouldnt be using Windows. Correct me if im wrong.

I think ATI supports Linux just as well as nvidia, in that with any good 3D card under Linux, you have to compile the appropriate binaries into your kernel to get optimum performance.

[El<(')>Maxi]

A simple explanation would be that ATI, in testing the various cores may find minor flaws that cause them to downgrade the chips....ie moving it from a 9700 to a 9500, and disabling 4 of the 8 pixel pipelines.

Well, some hardware junkies noticed the similarities, or more accurately the lack of differences between the 9700 and 9500. So they started looking very carefully at everything on the card. Then they discovered the key difference was one resistor near the core that was placed differently. So looking at a 9700 they matched the resistor position and wallah ! A 9700 card was born.

This is what is know as the "hardmod" (9500 to 9700), which enables the other four pixel pipelines.

Then someone figured out a way to do this with a software solution, ie the softmod hack.

So why do some softmod while others fail? In thinking this over I think the better question would be "why do any of them sucessfully softmod?" If they work then why didn't ATI use them on 9700? Well, I think a great majority of the softmodded cards show very, very minor artifacts, and ATI has very accurate testing and quality checks. Still some may slip under the radar.

Thats how I understand it anyways. I'm sure some other's have some better insight/knowledge into this than me.

My card has only shown very slight artifacts in 03/Troll's Lair, and that is at MAX OC. Every other game and benchmark is perfect.

[BulletProof MNK]

I've heard a lot of gd reviews for both the 9500 and 9600 but the 9600 edges it 4 me because of its better DX9 optimisation and AGP 8x interface.

[New2me]

Originally posted by El&lt;(')&gt;Maxi
A simple explanation would be that ATI, in testing the various cores may find minor flaws that cause them to downgrade the chips....ie moving it from a 9700 to a 9500, and disabling 4 of the 8 pixel pipelines.

Well, some hardware junkies noticed the similarities, or more accurately the lack of differences between the 9700 and 9500. So they started looking very carefully at everything on the card. Then they discovered the key difference was one resistor near the core that was placed differently. So looking at a 9700 they matched the resistor position and wallah ! A 9700 card was born.

This is what is know as the "hardmod" (9500 to 9700), which enables the other four pixel pipelines.

Then someone figured out a way to do this with a software solution, ie the softmod hack.

So why do some softmod while others fail? In thinking this over I think the better question would be "why do any of them sucessfully softmod?" If they work then why didn't ATI use them on 9700? Well, I think a great majority of the softmodded cards show very, very minor artifacts, and ATI has very accurate testing and quality checks. Still some may slip under the radar.

Thats how I understand it anyways. I'm sure some other's have some better insight/knowledge into this than me.

My card has only shown very slight artifacts in 03/Troll's Lair, and that is at MAX OC. Every other game and benchmark is perfect.

Great explanation............ thanks. So the four pixel pipelines are disabled to maximise chip stability/fix flaws?

And technically its either 4 pipelines or 8..... no 6 in between (2 re-enabled).

Cheers

[Chowdy]

A softmod may not always work, but what about a hard-mod? Can a hard mod be done successfully in every case of Radeon 9500 regardless of the "L" or "I" shaped memory?

[james.miller]

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1942472#post1942472

[q149]

Get the 256 bit 9500np.. it's faster than 9600 Pro even if it won't mod.