help

[phiber]

i am planning on getting a abit kt7a or the IWiLL kk266
dont know which and i plan on getting a thunderburd 900 or a duron 850 which one?
i plan to overclock
i have a 20gig hard drive a 32 mb video card
a 256mb pc100
a cd-r
a dvd
a zip

[OpenFriday]

Abit, ive just heard too many problems with Iwill's. Once a company puts out 1 bad product i dont buy from them for a while. That abit is a nice board you cant go wrong.

The processor? Well what do you plan to do with your comp?

[phiber]

i plan on using win2k
i plan on playing games
surfing and typing and burning

[OpenFriday]

Well i dont think there's too many games yet that will make a duron 850 break a sweat. the key is yet. ive not yet read nething on the 850, but ive hear lots of good things about 800. Whats the money situation like?
With a Duron 800 i'd expect no less than 1050. What do you plan to use for cooling. Tell me how much money youve got to spend and we'll see what happens.

-OpenFriday

[phiber]

well i can only spend about $350 little more than that maybe
i am after all thirteen years old dont make alot of money

[phiber]

so what do u think i could do with $350 maybe a little more if really needed

[OpenFriday]

dont worry man im 14 and make $0. seriously i have no job. well anyways i think the duron would prove more than sufficent for all your needs. Clock it to 1000+ and you'll be fine. I guess you want my suggestion for a cooler? well this one by vantec is one of the greatest price/preformance hsf's around. massive heatsink massive fan=quality. The $350 does that include the mobo or not? Either way this hsf is 20$

http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=120199&Product_Code=5090

How cheap can you get an 850 duron? i dont know i havent really looked.
i know 800's are in the 75-85 dolar range.

any other questions? anything ive been unclear on?
glad to attempt to help.

-OpenFriday

[OpenFriday]

350$ (american right?)

Abit Kt7(Dont think you need raid do you?)- About $150
Duron 850 -$80
Nice hsf i pointed out -$20
Arctic silver -$10
Anything else you need?

[phiber]

yes it is american
yes it includes the mobo
no i dont need a RAID board
and by the way how do i overclock
maybe u could find it cheap at a site for me

[OpenFriday]

dagger in my heart "how do i overclock" dont worry jim by the end of this month you'll have a good understanding. ok 1st off we have to tackle the problem of where to get the components. lets start off with the easy stuff.

Get the hsf @ http://www.crazypc.com/products/cooling/cpu/cpu.htm

arctic silver same site. http://www.crazypc.com/products/thermalproducts/thermalproducts.htm

so there's 30$+shipping

now processor what do you want 850?

Well heres a site (5.3 on reseller ratings) 78$ for duron 850. the site seems good enough.

http://www.neutronet.com/static/prdcat_13.html

now the mobo, the most important part.

found decent site excelletn price (5.6 on resellerratings)

http://www.essencom.com/ 130$+shipping.

so grand total 30+80+130=240$ now add shipping id say about 35$ respectivly total and youve got 3 nice components for under 300$

[OpenFriday]

now jim DOUBLE CHECK my sites. i just checked hap hazordly check out shipping costs i might have missed something. i doubt it just double check.
now to tackle you question on how to overclock. i refer you to an expert. on the front page of overclockers.com go to tips and techniques. then beginers guides, then beginers guide to overclocking, print the stuff out and read it like it was the bible. no let me rephrase that it IS the bible. that should get you started. once youve got all your components hooked up and working properly then begin you quest. 1st though just print out everything and put it aside. get the components 1st, then while theyre in the mail read those pages RELIGIOUSLY. its how i and lots of others got started.

so jim

1-DOUBLE CHECK those sites. i doubt you can find too much of a better deal and if you can it'll be only 2-8$. If the shipping is more than 20$ forget it.i dont think ne of those are though.

2-Order products

3-Read over those overclocking pages.

btw-your building your comp yourself or with help?

[OpenFriday]

other sites

1-review on the kt7 (i may have made myself unclear in my link above get the kt7 not kt7a, only 4$ difference, you dont need the kt7a.)

http://hardocp.com/reviews/mainboards/abit/kt7/

2-To help you oc heres how to unlock the multiplyer (but read the beginers guide LONG before you glance at this)

http://www.cotty.btinternet.co.uk/unlock.htm

also from the above link get the arctic silver thermal compound not adhiesive.

[phiber]

hey thanx for the sites
but i was just askin
what is the difference between the kt7 and the kt7a
i should be ordering 2morrow

[OpenFriday]

difference, kt7a supports ddr, youve already got ram do you dont need this board. while we're on the subjuect of ram, if you really want to oc this monster you'll find out about FSB. your ram wont handle too much more than 100. my guess is 112fsb tops. so you'll have to find some happy medium of multiplyer/FSB keeping in mind your ram wont oc too great.

[OpenFriday]

Jim tomorrow's Saturday Correct? why not order till Sunday nightish, they wont ship out til' Monday Morning neways, think it over try and find better prices, make sure this is what you want, read a few reviews dont make any snap decisions like i did with this POS 800eb. EB!! how foolish i once was.
Take it easy and happy clocking/purchasing.

-OpenFriday

btw if you need me you know where i'll be, its march break so i'll be here all day every day next week.

[phiber]

i heard that you need pc133 ram to overclock
a ABIT kt7a
and i dont have pc133 i only have pc100

[buginator]

From what I know the KT7A WILL NOT support DDRram, as it has a VIA chip set. The DDR ram is available with the AMD north chip set. The KT7A will allow you to adjust the FSB (front side bus) without making adj. to the AGP or PCI bus. It will also suppot the 266mhz FSB. If you're going to O/C then the FSB speed is of no matter, because you will be changing it. there are several forums and site to learn more on this BUT this site is of THE BEST. As the $$$ differance is so small from PC100-PC133 if you need ram get the 133, here again to the best of MY knowldege the 133 is'nt a ne cc.

[OpenFriday]

your right kt7a does not support ddr, thats what i get for skimming through reviews. Jim i think your gonna still have to get the Kt7 anyways.

[phiber]

altogether i checked it is going to about $270
with shippin
but i am having second thoughts
i think i will buy the duron and wait until the tbird 1.2mhz becomes cheaper
and by the way i could oc the duron to about 1gig right??

[phiber]

all durons are socket A right

[OpenFriday]

Yeah the duron should..i mean WILL be a (as hard ocp says) a cakewalk to a gig. Good idea, spend like 80$ now and wait till the 1.2 tbird comes down. Yes the durons are socket A. dont frighten me like that again "im having second thoughts". Nothing wrong with a duron, nothing that i can think of that'll make a duron 1gig "squeel like a pig". although some will say you can never have enough speed i think a duron 1gig with 256mb of ram should be ok.

Now Jim we have to tackle this ram problem, you realize that the pc100 ram is going to cripple how high you can go. Your Overclocking success depends on the ram. If it can only handle 112fsb then thats life, but because you can unlock the multiplyer (thank god) you'll be able to get a gig even with pc100. I think you can do it, its a nice board. Hell my no name pc133 does 150, maybe you'll get lucky.

btw-anyone else have a better cooler that the one ive pointed out, it got the same temps as the FOP38, only difference is this is 5$ cheaper and i think the HS is a bit bigger. That heatsink coupled with arctic silver 2 should do a decent job at getting a duron (800 or 850?) to a gig.

[FunkyTechnician]

Jim,

Keep in mind that if you decide on getting the KT7 instead of the KT7A, you will not have much room on moving the FSB. The KT7 will maybe go up to 105-110 FSB while the Kt7A can hit 150 with good ram. I would suggest you get some good ram, pay the extra for the KT7A and get the Duron 800 instead. the Duron 800 should be just as overclockable as the 850 (I've seen people hit 1ghz with the 700 many times).
You might want to consider the Tbird though since a Tbird 800 is about 20 more dollars but better performance and worth it imo.

I know you only have 350.00 but you can break it up like this:

Abit KT7A $142.00 (shipping included) www.newegg.com
Crucial 256Megs ram $95.00 (shipping included) www.crucial.com
AMD Duron800 $78.00 (shipping included) www.upgradeplanet.com
Globalwin FOP38 and Arctic silver $40.00 www.2cooltek.com

That is even $5 under budget.

One last note; keep reading the forums; they are extremely helpful in learning all the ins and outs.

Have fun.

Amiel

[OpenFriday]

i disagree on 2 things

1-Choice of cooler- Get the Vantec+Arctic silver
http://www.crazypc.com/products/cooling/cpu/cpu.htm 30$ for both





i do however agree that duron 800 will be easy to get at 1gig. ive seen a 600@1124 (proze) If he is going to use pc133 then yes go for the kt7a, but he says he didnt want new ram (jim you could sell the 256mb pc100 for a some extra $$$)

That ram is great dont get me wrong but personally id go for Kingmax Tiny BGA only 5$ more for 256mb pc133, your choice either way both will most likly get pc150.

http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/memory.htm

So Jim are you going to go with the pc133 ram and kt7a? (YES GO FOR IT) or stick with the pc100 and kt7? It will most likly criple the overclocking potential of the chip.

Think about it.

[OpenFriday]

btw- good thinking Jung i was just folloing what he said, he said he wasnt going to get pc133, but its so cheap i dont see why not.

[phiber]

ya i just asked my mom she told me i could get it
do u think i coyuld use both the memories one the mobo
or the pc100 or pc133 wont work with eachother
would i thelp me in overclocking

[OpenFriday]

You could use both but you could only overclock the FSB as high as the pc100 would go therefore making pc133 useless, just get all pc100 or all pc133, (get the pc133 and sell you pc100,)

So this is it?

Abit kt7a
Duron 800
256mb pc133
what cooler are you gonna choose?

[phiber]

it looks as if the the FOP38 is faster and bigger thatn the vantec
what do u think i should do

[phiber]

well guys i ordered the 850 duron
the abit kt7A
and yes i ordered the KINGMAX ram
but i did not order the fan yet which one should i get?

[OpenFriday]

ok the FOP38 has the same fan as the vantec so theres no difference there.
The size i dont know, it would be pretty close either way, as long as you can handle the noise. Get some good thermal interface materials. i.e. arctic silver small contact area. I personally am going for the Vantec because of some reviews i read, but its all up to you, the FOP38 and Vantec scored the same, the only reason i choose vantec was 1-Cheaper 2-Ive heard it was easier to install.

good choice on the ram btw.

[Commited]

Dont waste money getting the 850, because the 800 is practically the same. Dont get the t-bird, there r a good bit more expensive.
Also get the abit KT7A Mobo. Don't get the raid as u only have 1 hd.

[OpenFriday]

i agree but hes already ordered the 850 duron so whatcha gonna do?

[phiber]

i know they are the same
but i chose the duron 850 becasue if i cant overclock it i still will have 50 more mhz
and the difference was $4

[phiber]

i just ordered the vantec fan
now i have to survive the worst part about upgrading the part called waiting

[OpenFriday]

i knew youd make the right choice Jim

[Bovon]

Following snip is from an email reply from an AMD processor testing guy. This snip is from a lengthy reply that dealth indepth on several things, mobos included. Maybe you will gather a little wisdom from this. I know I have.

<snip>
".....As to what chips OC better, that is hard to say. It may vary greatly from
Tray to tray. However, here is what I have found so far:

For durons the D600 seems to be the best OC'er out there (again, varying
from tray to tray). Over 90%of the 600s I have tested would hit 900+ MHz,
with most being able to hit 950. We did get a batch of 50 chips in a few
months back that would hit 1GHz+ aircooled. Those were the best. From there
the 650 is decent, but the 600s have actually OC'ed better. The 700 and 750
have just plain sucked. The 800s I have tested have hit 1GHz on an Asus A7V,
but would only hit 950 on Abit's boards. Not sure why.

For Tbirds, the best, of course, were the old Blue Core 750s, as stated
above. After that the Blue Core 900s, then the GHz chips. 850s have been the
worst OC'ers in my experience, with 800s being so so.

The best performance increase you can get at this time is to run your chip
on a 133Mhz FSB board, by reducing the multiplier. Running in this manner a
Duron 800 (6X133) will actually out perform a TBird 850 (at 100MHz) in many
benchmarks."

[phiber]

u know what if u think that the 800 is better than the 850 then i will underclock and set it at (6*133)

[OpenFriday]

No no Jim dont play that game. The 800 just has a higher potential for overclocking. This is due to the lower multiplyer. at stock of course an 850 will outpreform an 800. Dont worry Jim you'll do just fine. Progress can only be made going forwards not backwards.

[OpenFriday]

[quote]Bovon (Mar 11, 2001 03:19 p.m.):

<snip>





the 650 is decent,


YES (thats what i invested my hard earned dollary doo's in)

[phiber]

i was talking to bovon
anyway during my break which is soon iam going to be day and night trying to get it over a 1 gig
as for cooling i have no worry with the vantec and my huge exhaust fan on the side of my case i will be fine

[OpenFriday]

I think Jim was planning to fool around with the multiplyer and FSB anyways to get the configuration thats right for him. Ive said this before, dont play the mhz game, get a system thats nice and stable. At 1st 6x133 would be good but then your gonna keep trying for more right?

you do know how to unlock the multiplyer right Jim?

[phiber]

yes from reading at this forum they say i need a magnifying glass and some #2 pencils and make a nice line from one dot to the other there are three of them or four and this is the L1

[OpenFriday]

Here sounds like you know already but heres something too take a look at

http://www.cotty.btinternet.co.uk/unlock.htm

i only had a 2x magnifer, i wish i had more.

[Bovon]

Jim, from my snip from the email, I did not intend to say you should do it. This info is from a guy that really knows this stuff, but was posted here for your continuing knowledge only. You do as you wish.

Here is a short tutorial in pictures on how to unlock your Duron or Tbird. Click on the pictures to get a larger view. Also, be aware that the 'pencil trick' is not permanent. Many have to redo it quite often, which requires removing the HSF and processor...removing the HSF then replacing it, increases your chance of chipping your processor...which is always fatal...be carefull. The conductive pen is better, but more costly.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/articles/amd_oc_10-00/3.shtml

[OpenFriday]

If you can find a conductive pen great but Proze has had no problems with his Duron with a pencil, hes had his working fine since october he says. A conductive pen would be ideal. Not too expensive, only about 8$ american if you can find one.

[Bovon]

OpenFriday, please note that I said MANY have had to redo the pencil trick, certainly not all. If I can refind the threads at another forum, I will post them here maybe tomorrow, where at least two guys ruined their processors by removing them to repencil the links on the processors.

Please do not get so opinionated to a point to where you apparently have all the answers. I see where you posted your age as 14 above. I do not have any problems with that at all...nada. I am old enough to be your grandfather. I learn every day, and the most important thing I ever learned, was that (almost) nothing is chiseled in stone.

[OpenFriday]

ohh i know MANY people have had to do it over and over again, some have told me 1x a week they have to do it. But with a good pencil you may get lucky and never have to do them again, or as you suggested defogger kit or conductive pen that costs $$$ for a more permanent solution. Jim is only a year younger than me and i know how hard it is to try and get a conductive pen up here in canada with no car or credit card. ( i still havent found one) So for his particular situation i thought a good pencil would prove to be the easiest (certainly not the best) solution. If he takes care when taking off the hsf there should be no problems. Of course there is always the possibility of something happining, but ive known guys whove done it literly hundrends of times with no problems.

-OpenFriday

[phiber]

i think i might be able to get a defogger kit because i have a auto parts store about 3 blocks from my house and i have $10 left after all the ordering came to about $380 with shipping

[OpenFriday]

Bovon (Mar 11, 2001 05:07 p.m.):


Please do not get so opinionated to a point to where you apparently have all the answers. .


Yeah sorry about that i get like that sometimes. I just need some one to keep me in line ;). i'll try to keep it underwraps. Sorry again.

-OpenFriday

[OpenFriday]

If you can Jim go for it, i think its pretty much permanent, if you do screw up i forget how to clean the conductive ink off, was it alchohol? I tried my local garages (3 of them) and no good. tried Canadian Tire and they just looked at me funny. Good luck keep us posted.

-OpenFriday

[Bovon]

Hey OpenFriday, no offence taken at all my man. I so well remember those days myself...even tho it has been (in your age's case) 55 years :D .

Jim, quite a few years ago, with the help of a friend that worked in a lab, I made some of my own 'conductive ink'. It was made with a conductive liquid (not sure HOW conductive) and copper filings or. rather sandpaper filings, collected in a fine cloth sheet kinda like a bed sheet, then put in a small container where a small amount of the liquid was added. The properties of this liquid was, that it would harden. Along with the copper sandings made a highly conductive solution. At the time, I was attempting a repair on a circuit board, and it worked perfectly. If I can locate again the solution, or my friend...now in another state..probably retired also, or some other solution with simular properties, I will pass this along on the forums. I'm sure many would like to be able to make some...and it didn't even cost (me) a dime, because a few drops were given to me for the experiment. I believe aluminum paint is pretty conductive...it is saturated with aluminum particals, but may not be quite conductive enough, and the paint properties may not withstand the heat, and most paint would be too thick to apply on such a small trace area.

As you say OpenFriday, the pencil trick is very popular, quick, cheap and easy...and has worked quite good for many...my usual thoughts are for a permanent job...and the thoughts of having to take that HSF off and back on time and again, scares me. I don't have the loot to be running out to buy a new cpu if I kill mine either... ;D

[OpenFriday]

Bovon if you find that recipie you'd be a hero. I think everyone is looking for a cheap,permanent and quality solution to the unlocking of the AMD multiplyer. Im probably (after i find more money) gonna just dish out the 8$ and get a defogger kit or conductive pen. (if i can fine one) Bovon you know who to instant message if you find out how to make that conductive liquid again :) Good luck to both of you

btw-Jim if you find the conductive ink/defogger kit, please tell me where and i'll rush over on my bycycle (hey its 18 speed) and pick some up. thanks

-OpenFriday

AHH 2 pages, well this post sure took off now didnt it!

[phiber]

hey u know i live in new york city
if i dont find it i will kill my self

[OpenFriday]

NEW YORK??? sorry i was talking to another 14 year old whos in the same situation, got you two mixed up sorry. Dang wish you lived in Canada so you could tell me where you got the defogger.

When you get it just drop me a line maybe we have a similar shop way up here in Canada.

-OpenFriday