Woot Shin Etsu

i went and bought some shin etsu g751 last weekend and got roughly 1 gram for about 10$ if you convert the money .

well one of my students ordered me a FREE 50 gram sample of the same g751 directly from the company on tuesday and it arrived today =)

my amd rigs are gonna be happy =)

i teach several subjects but usualy spoken english .
all my students are post masters and above

hehe you would never guess from my poor grammar while on the net =)

not to mention all the bad spelling.

What's so special about this shin etsu g751? from the searches I did, it appears to be just another non-conductive thermal grease.

From what I've read it's got aboot one or two degrees on Arctic Silver, and ¿is less expensive?

more expencive per gram but it is tied for best thermal compound with nano therm for amd procs but it isnt as good on pentiums because it doesnt get as efficient till it hits amd temps

so 50 grams is a LOT of money

I have some here.

I tested it a number of times and wasn't able to discern any real difference over Arctic Silver, even after letting it cure for a week.

Oh, AMD and Intel CPU's reach the about same temperatures, unless someone changes the laws of physics recently.

Let us know how it works out for you.

the amd cores are smaller they dont transfer the heat in the same size. also if you cant tell diference between it and arctic silver there is 1 of 2 things happening. 1 you are at the transfer ceiling ( not likely) or 2 you need to make the paste thinner because it requires half of the thickness of of what people put on it for AS products. its known to be the most dificult of the pastes to apply properly .

An AMD Barton CPU (XP3200+) is 13.61 x 7.42mm, or 101mm^2 in size. It's typical thermal dissipation is 60.4W. All information taken from here

A Northwood Intel P4 is 146mm^2 in size. A P4 3.2C's typical thermal dissipation is 82.0W. All information taken from here and here.

The Intel CPU pushes 21.6W more heat into the heatsink. Given the same heatsink, the Intel will make the heatsink get hotter. The thermal density for the XP3200+ is 0.598W/mm^2. The thermal density for the P4 3.2C is 0.561W/mm^2

The P4 has a slightly lower thermal density (~6%), but it pushes more gross heat out in normal operation (~35%)

These are figures straight from the manufacturer's mouths. The same pattern is established for pretty much all CPU's of a matching "XP" rating for P4 clock speed.

I repeat again, not unless the laws of thermal phsyics have suddenly been changed, P4's will get as hot, if not hotter, than AMD CPU's. That many (all?) P4 motherboards report very low temperatures compared to AMD systems is something I'll leave for you to decide on who's telling the truth or not.

I applied the Shin Etsu very thinly - thinner than I would have for AS3. I also tried the same thickness, and thicker. Same result for both.

[Edit: Corrected post with more up to date figures on the P4's core size]

how much bigger is a pentium contact surface?

if i have a 1 cm area core and i put say 60 watts through it and i have a 1.4cm area core and i put lets say 80 watts through it the smaller serface area is not putting more total heat through the material BUT heat disipation per area measurement should be higher in effect making the thermal compound work harder .
this is what im trying to say . the area vs heat load is greater

if we use the figures a pentium has 40% more area and pushes 33% more heat making the the transfer of heat roughly 6-7% diferent between the 2 . now if thier surface area where the same size concerning the thermal compound then it would work better for a pentium but as i was stating the surface is smaller on an amd so it has to work that much harder to pas heat through its connecting medium ( thermal compound)
am i making sense or did i make people more confused with my wording?

As I said, the thermal density (heat load for area) is 6% high for AMD over Intel, but the heat load for Intel is 35% higher. The heatsink now has to dump 35% more heat energy for the Intel CPU than the AMD CPU, so it has to get warmer for the Intel CPU. The warmth of the heatsink directly feeds back into the final temperature of the CPU.

However, even if all you took as the 6% thermal density difference, you're still getting temperatures within 1-2C of each other for either CPU.

Either way you look at it, the Intel CPU will be insigificantly cooler than the AMD CPU, or it will be quite a deal warmer than the AMD CPU. Even moreso when you consider that the Intel CPU has to transfer it's heat through a second thermal junction, being the "heat-spreader".

Intel CPU's don't run cooler than AMD CPU's. It's a long held myth.

what im talking about seems to be a diferent subject because im talking about the amount of heat transfered through the compound because less contact area between the 2 means more or less efficiency . its kind of like compareing high power air cooling and a radiator . that small diference in the higher end ability to handle the load that you said equates 1-2C is exactly the diference between the competition.

something else i just thought of too. the heatsink or block that takes the heat from the compound plays a big part because if you are getting rid of heat very well as aposed to a low quality HS then that means the thermal compound is not getting as hot with your setup and remember when these companies design thier compounds they have certian temps that they optimise for .

so for your system you may not see a diference bu less then 1/2 a degree but someone with a less efficient system may see 4C diference. keep in mind oyu do have a much more efficient setup than the average person to include the test systems that rate the final product.

I lost my Arctic Silver 3 after using it twice. Been using AS2 this whole time. Maybe it's time to switch to this Shin Etsu. Those Japanese... such detail and precision into everything.

anyway.. isn't it best to use stuff that ISN't a caspitor.. hence.. AS ceramic for me.. (non conductive!)

I've heard Shin-Etsu is also non-conductive. BOOYAH

--Illah

Hasn't Shin Etsu been around for quite a while now? I didn't think it was neccessarily new. I think it's just that more recently AMD declared that if you were not using an approved TIM to mount a heatsink onto your cpu then it would void the warranty; with the only approved TIM at the mo being Shin Etsu.

AFAIK Artic Silver 'ceramique' is the best paste at the mo. AS3 is close but what ceramique really gives over AS3 is that it does not degrade over time. I'm sure other people have noticed as I have that after about a 6 month period AS3 kinda goes off and a remount of the heatsink or waterblock with fresh paste will give lower temps.

arctic silver ceramique is one of the easyest to apply pasts and its non conductive which im not sure about some of the others like shin etsu
shin etsu the company has been around for a long time and g750 and 751 have been out for a little while but havent been well known till recently . and

I think it's just that more recently AMD declared that if you were not using an approved TIM to mount a heatsink onto your cpu then it would void the warranty; with the only approved TIM at the mo being Shin Etsu.

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this is completely correct .

Wow! Radio Shack beat out AS 3

Cathar, thanks for opening a major can of worms. Due to my employment, it’s obvious that I won’t comment on the thermal grease issue. But the question begs to be asked, how are you measuring the CPU temperature? Shall we dare take a look at the problem? Bear with me, Cathar’s thoughts on Intel temps will be addressed in the fourth paragraph but first a little background.

Any diode inside the chip will be far more accurate than a thermal probe placed outside the chip. Think about it, how accurately can you tell the temperature of an oven or a refrigerator with a thermometer mounted outside on the door? For more info read Why Many Thermal Measurements Are Not Valid. As most of us already know, in-socket thermistors will not give you anything resembling an accurate temperature. “Oh but I put the probe next to the CPU core, it must be accurate!” Think again. Here's an interesting heatsink round up that illustrates the point.

Somehow or other, but the main conclusion is this: for hardcore overclocking, the readings of external thermal sensor are absolutely useless since they don't reflect the factual processor core temperatures.

Click to expand...

You may find Temperature Sensing Technologies a good read too.

Now that we have figured out the best place to read the temperature is inside the CPU die, another problem pops up. With PII and PIII CPUs, the sensor was in the hottest part of the chip. Here's what Intel has to say about PIII diode placement. With P4s and Athlons the diode is no longer in the hottest part of the chip. A little more reading from Intel on the subject. We have the same problems measuring temperatures inside the core when the diode is not in the hot spot as those outlined in Why Many Thermal Measurements Are Not Valid.

The only accurate CPU temperature measurements are from PII or PIII internal diodes provided you have a motherboard that can read the internal diode. There is no way for the end user to get an accurate temperature reading from an AMD CPU or a P4.

Furthermore for those of you with P4s, if you consider the last link from Intel, your CPUs are most likely throttling more often than you may realize.

RockerII said:

Wow! Radio Shack beat out AS 3

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wow, i guess it was a GOOD thing that I ran out of AS3 and am now running on Radio Shack thermal grease then huh?