is there anything we can do to stop members from leaving?

[Jeff Bolton]

now i'm making it a point not to mention names, since members that don't have access to this forum can't defend themselves.

but here is my question: is there anything we can do as 'dedicated' members to prevent those offended by the new layout and rules from packing up and leaving just because they think they should have access to this forum (aside from granting access to everyone who is upset)?

i believe that this is a serious issue, and while i think that their reason for leaving may be rather silly, we could possibly be losing a lot of valuable members, even if they don't have as high of a post count as us.

i hope i'm not alone when i say that if my post count was low, i wouldn't really be offended, because while i like GD, it wasn't the reason i joined and isn't the reason i stayed. i wish that these members in question would realize that GD isn't the be-all/end-all of the forum, and that 'dedicating' themselves more to the PC aspects of the forum would help them to get here quicker.

either way, i think they are most offended not because they can't get in, but because they feel they're being labelled 'un-dedicated' when they really aren't being labelled that.

can anyone think of a way to soothe their anger, and keep these members around? i don't want to see the forums suffer, even if the cause of it (kiling the old GD) was something that was caused by the members themselves.

input please. and PLEASE remember not to mention names, because i don't want this thread to end up getting waxed.

jeff

[sandman001]

While I think it's a dumb reason to leave, I don't want them to leave. I think most are just mad now, and will eventually calm down.

It would make me kinda mad to basically be told you aren't worthy. But, I don't really think there is much we can do.....

[modenaf1]

My new opinion is that maybe if they will leave over a dumb forum they dont have access to good bye to them.

i mean its like someone whining "oh he said i should be banned and its clear o/c forums dosent want me anymore o goodbye"

I mean c'mon!!!!! if they are that sensitive they ought to leave!

[Crash893]

to be honest

if thats the only reason there here
i dont think they should stay

its not a personal thing we have to put the line some where and if you fall below it then youll just have to wait

also im sure if the made a little contrubtion to skip that would help get them in

[ninthebin]

well although there is truth in that, if they are busting a gut over part of the forum they cant get to - why are they here, the forum isnt centered on this part, they should be out there helping members and posting questions and what not.

but at the sametime its a bad attitude to have towards a community of enthusiasts to say "if you dont like it, get out" - I think with time it will settle down, those who cant yet get here will realise that if they stick at it, one day it will be on the list. And those who have joined since will probably not know of it until it one day does appear.

Dan

[modenaf1]

Originally posted by Crash893


also im sure if the made a little contrubtion to skip that would help get them in

I really dont think anyone who bribes their way into a certain category should expect a warm welcome.

[macklin01]

Jeff, I think this is an excellent thread topic. I agree that this is a potential. While I am inclined to believe that those members who are incensed enough to leave simply for the lack of general chatter may not have belonged here in the first place, I also feel that this a very dangerous attitude to have. (Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering ... this attitude is a short leap away from elitism that I'm sure all would like to avoid.) I think we need to keep close tabs on the forums in the next few days to see if the initial anger (which is inevitable after any major change) waxes or wanes.

BTW, modenaf, I believe they meant "posting contribution", not "financial contribution." As in stating that if a particular member finds him/herself locked out due to low post count, and if that person's post count is low because they spent more time searching than posting and/or made fewer, high-quality posts, then that person may be helped along. These are the sorts of tweaks I see happening after the dust settles.

On another note, I noticed that some here are signing with their first names. I think that this small gesture -- stepping a bit forward from the login/alias name with a real name -- is a nice way to encourage a further sense of community. (This is why I've always signed every single post of mine as "Paul", rather than macklin01.)

-- Paul

[Cjwinnit]

Originally posted by macklin01
On another note, I noticed that some here are signing with their first names. I think that this small gesture -- stepping a bit forward from the login/alias name with a real name -- is a nice way to encourage a further sense of community. (This is why I've always signed every single post of mine as "Paul", rather than macklin01.)

-- Paul

I haven't started signing my posts here yet but anyone who has read the roll call or recieved a PM from me knows who I am :)

[TheFrag]

I think Krusty was helped in, unless of course he had 99 7posts exactly -_-

Anyway, I think if someone shoul dobviously be let in, then just PM Shadow or something and ask him to consider letting them in.

[diggingforgold]

Here is how I look at it. They have every right to be ****ed off. If you were them, I'm sure you would be angry at the postcount limitations too. I think it's totally wrong and not a good way of doing things. Excluding them only makes them feel isolated and rejected, and that is just plain wrong. But we also should have a general chat area. It helps our members be closer as a community.

But we must remember that this is a work in progress and mods and admins are trying to come up with a way to be able to screen the members they feel have the ability to control themselves in a GD type environment.

So what can you do? Let these people know that they are trying to figure out a way that will work. Tell them to stick around until they are finished. It's too soon to tell how bad or good it will be when it's not finished.

[Shadow ÒÓ]

don't tell members we're considering opening GD to the public.

We will not open this up to the public again......in fact the next change will be eliminate it completely.

There are legal issues which really require we close GD......not narrow it down. However, IF this works out as is, it will remain.

We are and have made exceptions....and will continue to do so. Simply PM a mod or myself and ask a member be reviewed.

Some of the members who are leaving, need to leave. As far as losing good members....it's just going to happen....and I'm very sorry to see good members leave because they can't "chat". A truely valuable member would probably not leave over such a petty issue.

[Tismedt]

I agree with you 100% shadow. This is a weeding process that needs to be done. I've had a couple tough times brought on by my point of view and at those times I felt like a outsider. I didn't leave because after thinking it through I realized it was just one of those things that happen in life. You can't please all of the ppl all the time. This is one of those things. If someone is so closed minded that they can't realize this then perhaps they don't belong here. On the other hand if these ppl feel strongly that they should be a part of the community they will work hard at being accepted by posting quality posts or convincing others to plead there case here in the community. After all the dust settles this will IMHO still be the best OC forum period.

[nealric]

Just out of curiosity, what legal issues exist for GC ?

Is it the potential for warez talk or something?

[Oni]

Originally posted by Crash893
if thats the only reason there here
i dont think they should stay

I think you're right, y'know.

This is a forum about computer hardware, overclocking etc. If you're only here for chat, then why not head on over to GenMay or something?

Idk about some of you, but I know I won't shed any tears over members leaving, just from a few changes around here. There's more to this place than just chatting. Maybe these changes will give some of us a chance to get back to our roots, and remember why we signed up here in the first place.

It's already got me thinkin' I should re-explore some of the places I've taken for granted: Alt. Modding, I,N,&S, Folding, Games etc. Try to help out more than I used to. I hope most of you feel the same.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather nobody leave over the recent changes. But if you do, just don't expect sympathy.

[Shadow ÒÓ]

after searching for 20 mins......I've found at least 20 posts that need better answers. It's not that hard to post with quality yet raise your post count up quickly.

Asking questions is even a good way! Is there something you aren't sure about or would like to know more about? I'll bet you can come up with questions that a lot of other members would like to know the answers to too!

and I will not discuss legal issues..........although I kinda wished I could....a lot more people would understand the changes. Suffice to say, we are not in any legal trouble......and we're just making sure we remain that way.

[Cjwinnit]

Just to let you guys know that I'm now on a one-man mission to reply to those who talk about leaving.

[Oni]

With 'Here's your hat, what's your hurry?' right?

[Crash893]

Originally posted by modenaf1


I really dont think anyone who bribes their way into a certain category should expect a warm welcome.

money doesnt equal instant rank or dedicatied member
and it sure as hell wont get you in the classifieds beofre your ready


but its also not ignored

and i think it says alot if your willing to invest in your forums

[diggingforgold]

Well I still don't understand what could possibly be a legal issue. Other sites have chat forums, chat rooms, etc. There's nothing going down there.

If you are talking about warez or file sharing discussions, we have been keeping that to discussing morals only. To me that's all freedom of speech, and I don't see how the legal system would want to close you guys down because we are talking about it.

Closing general chat will only separate the community around here. I don't know why you guys would want to do that. We've grown close as a community. Even your guys missions statement talks about a community. Making it so people can't chat like we have been is going to wreck what we have here.

But I'm not the administrator or owner here. Everything is up to you guys to make the best decisions. I just wish I could understand the need for the change, that is all...

[Caffinehog]

Originally posted by diggingforgold
If you are talking about warez or file sharing discussions, we have been keeping that to discussing morals only. To me that's all freedom of speech, and I don't see how the legal system would want to close you guys down because we are talking about it.

Legitimate or not, a lawsuit could shut down OC.com. There's always the cost of defending yourself, and I doubt that skip has the money to defend the site AND keep it running.

As for 997 posts, well, if you make it that far, then you probably are posting quality, and you probably have a good grasp of the rules and values in this forum. Something like 500 shows some dedication, but... I think I've seen somebody with over 700 posts get banned before, by posting stuff that could have easily gotten this site sued.

And didn't general chat only come into existance a little while ago?

[diggingforgold]

Well I've got over 1500 posts, and I still can't see the difference between quality chat and worthless chat.

No, there's nothing anyone can do about members leaving. Once they are offended, the only thing that will get them back is an appology or at least a nice explanation. Bye.

[I.M.O.G.]

Originally posted by diggingforgold
Well I've got over 1500 posts, and I still can't see the difference between quality chat and worthless chat.

No, there's nothing anyone can do about members leaving. Once they are offended, the only thing that will get them back is an appology or at least a nice explanation. Bye.

Utopia's great, but wishing for it in the real world is a waste of time. We will not, and simply cannot please everyone.

So some members are going to be unhappy. Now if they are going to just get up and leave a day or two after some changes then they must not feel like they have much to gain from or invested into these forums. Sometimes changes take a little bit of patience and understanding - and these qualities have to be mutual from both parties to the change. The staff of the forums has exhibited that they are understanding of the issues that will be present and that some people will be left unhappy - and they don't like for people to be displeased. They also understand that there are too many different people here to please everyone. Many members have shown they are understanding of the changes, whether they like them or not. Other members have shown that they don't like the changes but are going to be patient and see what they think of them a month from now. If certain members cannot be patient or understanding enough to see that there are demands upon this forum which require accommodations to be made, and they are ready to leave abruptly - then perhaps it is best that they do so. In a compromise, it is necessary for both sides to work together and give things time to settle in. The staff could have just eliminated GC altogether, they are trying to please as many people as possible.

Now, I think in your post you created something similar to a false dichotomy. I think you can notice the fallacy there also. I don't think the only solutions to pleaseing unhappy members are to:

A) apologize
or
B) present an explanation.

Both these consist of the staff handing something to the unhappy members, as if that will solve the problem. I think you have made it clear that you feel as though the staff has wronged its membership, but simply handing something to it's members will not help. The staff has already tried as much as it can to keep people happy here. I think other helpful elements that will improve the situation are:

C) patience from everyone to give time to adjust
D) a display from both sides that they understand the other side has issues that need to be dealt with

I came to know you on here DFG first through the debates forum, and I quickly learned that you are thoughtfully considerate of multiple sides of an issue. I like the way you think about things. However, I see your frustration now, and I'm sorry that this will probably not alleviate it.

Only when both sides are open to adjusting and adapting will problems really be solved. IN A GAME OF GIVE AND TAKE, EVERYONE HAS TO PLAY. ;)

[Shadow ÒÓ]

IMOG it's too bad you're already a member of this section. I would've promoted you otherwise. :p

Thanks for your understanding and attempts to help others understand as well. That goes for ALL of you.

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Oni
It's already got me thinkin' I should re-explore some of the places I've taken for granted: Alt. Modding, I,N,&S, Folding, Games etc. Try to help out more than I used to. I hope most of you feel the same.
you know i have done the same thing over the last day or so!

[Cjwinnit]

Originally posted by diggingforgold
No, there's nothing anyone can do about members leaving.

Au contraire, have a look at the Folding Team page.