Simple Dually

[Spl Engineering]

Hello,

I am new to building computers and new to dually's but, Im builing a dually for my second compy to be networked with my primary work station. I have looked a pricing on Xenon vs MP2400's and it seems that only the pricing on the mobo will be the major difference <correct me if im wrong>.

Xenons 112.00 and the MP2400's 157.00

sytem
MSI K7D Master
AMD MP 2400's x 2
WD 80GB HD's 7200 rpm x 3
ATI 9000 VC
Soundblaster Pro 32bit
2 sticks of 512 - need help on what kind
Five fans - standard in my plexi case - need help with noise :mad:

2 cold cath UV tubes

I want this to be as simple to assemble and maintain as possible because of my lack of knowledge in this field. If there is anything im missing please let me know. The primary use is for lite gaming and once in awhile as a ftp server. I chose the MP over the XP because I was totally confused when trying to understand the L5 mod and blowing of bridges.... so if any one had a diagram please let me know .



ANY SUGGESTING WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

[Rav]

Welcome to the Forums!

First off, if you are comfortable modding the CPU bridge for MP, getting a pair of normal XP 2400+'s would save you a lot of money. Check the stickys for info on how that is accomplished. Also, sound blaster pro 32bit? I'd not bother with something like that. The K7D has integrated sound that would at a minimum be equal to that, probably a bit better. As far as memory, you will be limited to 2 slots if you use standard RAM. If you want to be able to use all 4 slots (either now or in the future) you will need Registered memory, or Registered ECC (error correcting). Good luck and ask away if you have more questions!

-Rav

[Tweaked!]

There is no blowing of bridges needed to do the l5 mod. All there is to it is to barely scrape off the very top coating over the last se of dots, and paint a connection beetween them. If you get one of the newer style chips where the actual traces in the pcb are visible, there's been some word going around that all you have to do is fill the pit with conductive paint and that will make the connection. Apparently when Amd laser cuts the bridge, it leaves just enuf of the wire exposed that the conductive paint can connect with. It's a super easy mod, just about the easiest mod to do on a xp chip. Other than that, with either style chip you end up with, you don't have to fill the gap with nonconductive filler or anything like what used to be done to do the multi mod on the L1's.

As far as ram goes, some will tell you you can use non registered nonecc ram, but I recommend going with it. Crucial ecc registered pc2100 iss more than capable of handling anything that setup can throw at it. Plus if you ever decide you need more ram in the future, starting off with the right stuff the first time makes upgrading later more cost effective.

Don't forget you'll need a decent 400w or better psu. I use the Antec 430 true power psu and it performs flawlessly. I have damn near that exact same setup as what you've described.

You'll really enjoy that rig once you've got it built and running. It blows away any uni proc system. Good luck with your endeavor:cool:

[Spl Engineering]

I do not know enough to do they as of yet . I do plan on learning more about this because i have done a great deal of price comparisons and wish i could use the XP 2600 over the MP2400s and I do not know anyone locally with enough knowledge to teach me. So im stuck trying to keep with a certain budget they why im looking forward to OCing just to see what i can get out of this machine.

[Spl Engineering]

Im sure i could prolly due the L5 mod but I have been unsuccesfull at finding a diagram or photo's of it being done so I was trying to play it safe...

I just ordered XP 2600 system from newegg and once it gets here <hopefully tomorrow> I will have a XP proc in my hand so i can look at it b4 ordering the parts for the dually ....

Thanks for suggestion on Ram I will definitely go that route because this thing is turning out to be quite pricey already but im excited

[cmcquistion]

You can find links to articles with diagrams of the L5 process in the first reply in the sticky called "The MP, XP, Thunderbird and Duron SMP answer. "

My best advice: read, read, and read some more. Read that sticky I mentioned, and all of the posts, here, in the last five days or so and you'll find the answer to almost every question you have.

[Caffinehog]

With the K7D master, if you plan on having no more than 2 sticks of memory, you don't even need ECC... just as long as you put them in the first two slots only. This can be a great way to save money.

As for the L5 mod... well, it's easy, but you have to find defogger repair fluid or conductive ink. I do reccomend it, but if you're more comfortable just buying them as MP's, go ahead.

And what kind of heatsinks were you planning for these?

[ZaP37]

http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~cmjohn4/die.jpg
http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~cmjohn4/bridges.jpg

Use silver-based conductive paint, and tape around the last L5 to keep from accidentally painting the other nearby bridges.

P.S. Ignore the paint on the L3 bridge, I did it to overclock (change the multiplier).

[Tweaked!]

ZaP37,
My god man, those are some huge painted lines there:eek:

I don't even tape off when I do it, Just use a fine tipped needle, dip it in the paint, and lightly dap it on the first dot, then drag it over to the next. It does help to have one of those desk mounted lighted magnifying lens though. :cool:

[Spl Engineering]

WOW:eek: :eek:

You mean to tell me that it all a L5 mod is !!!!!!!!!!!

I guess ill have to rethink my system now dual 2600's hear I come... well the Barton Core 2500's still have my intrest peeked as well......

As for the heat sinks.... Im still at a loss for this one...I take it that the factory versions are not enuff huh ?.... there are many opinions on this .... I was reading the post about which one work on this mobo.... so any suggestion would be apreciated there..

[cmcquistion]

The AMD stock heatsinks are total crap.

The best heatsink-fan combo for duallies (in my opinion) is the SLK-800 or SK-7, paired with a Panaflo L1A fan.

I know that these fit on the MSI K7D Master (my favorite dual AMD board), the Tyan Tiger MP, and the Asus A7M-266D (my second favorite.)

[Caffinehog]

Yeah, AMD stock heatsinks are crap. They'll do the job if your room and case are reasonably cool and you aren't overclocking.

As far as the L5 mod... people use all kinds of things for making the line. Masking it off with tape, then dabbing it on is the most popular. Personally, I have a steady enough hand that I can draw it by hand. Pins, hair, and other things have been used to do this. I reccomend you get a toothpick, break it, and strip one end down to a single fiber. This absorbs the ink so it doesn't dry out as quickly while you are trying to apply it. It also minimizes globbing. Then again, the L5 is not as much of a precision operation as unlocking is, so you should be fine. Just make sure it doesn't hit any other dots.

[Spl Engineering]

Is there a place to buy this ink or paint online? Or is this something I can pick up at a local computer specialty store?

Ill have to get back on newegg and look up those heatsinks and fans because i didnt know the stock one were that bad and i cheaped out and didnt order any....thanks for the tips....

[Spl Engineering]

I keep reading about unlocking the CPU... would this be needed in my application... If i just want to get the dual up and running without OCing to start... I know I need the L5 mod if im using XP2600's ..but what is the purpose to the unlocking or what is the purpose for blowing bridges..

[cmcquistion]

You only need to unlock and blow bridges and such, if you intend to overclock, by multiplier. Blowing bridges is used to change the stock multiplier to something else.

In your case, you don't need to do this. You only need to do the L5 mod and it's pretty easy.

[Spl Engineering]

Thank you CMC... maybe in the future I will overclock it so I do want the system to have to potential for this. Ill even buy all the cooling now like I am going to do it, but first I just want the thing to turn on and work/Stable....

[Stedeman]

The paint stuff you need to make bridges is the "windshield heater repair paint" at most auto part stores

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by Stedeman
The paint stuff you need to make bridges is the "windshield heater repair paint" at most auto part stores

Yep, you can use that or a "Conductive Pen". It's often labeled as a Conductive Ink Pen or Trace Repair Pen. It's used to repair traces on circuit boards. You can get it at some electronics stores, or electrical supply houses. It generally costs a little more than rear windows defogger paint, but one pen will last a LONG time forever. I've used it on at least 30 chips, over the past year. The rear window defogger paint is only good for one or two mods, then the contents dry up. They both work equally well, though.

[bulk88]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


Yep, you can use that or a "Conductive Pen". It's often labeled as a Conductive Ink Pen or Trace Repair Pen. It's used to repair traces on circuit boards. You can get it at some electronics stores, or electrical supply houses. It generally costs a little more than rear windows defogger paint, but one pen will last a LONG time forever. I've used it on at least 30 chips, over the past year. The rear window defogger paint is only good for one or two mods, then the contents dry up. They both work equally well, though.

Also it goes by the name "Nickel Paint". I personally use a MG Chemicals Silver Microtip Conductive Pen Cat No. 8420-p that I got from a TV parts, Radio parts, and electronics (not appliences) store (Allstate Electonics 182st and Jamaica Ave, Queens, New York City). Also the stuff make cool nail polish:D.

[ZaP37]

Originally posted by bulk88
Also it goes by the name "Nickel Paint".:eek: But make sure it is not nickel-based. :eek: When I originally tried doing my L5 mod I used MG Nickel Print, which turned out not to be conductive enough. I redid the bridge at least 10 times before I figured out what the problem was. Switching to silver-based paint made it work.

Originally posted by Tweaked!
My god man, those are some huge painted lines thereYeah, I only masked the bridge on 2 sides so when I put a drop over it, it bled quite a distance.

[Spl Engineering]

well I should be ordering the mobo and the cpu's this weekend ...... but i wanted to wait and make sure the first set up i ordered was up and running b4 i did so.... and wouldnt you know it.....the first one wont boot to bios ..no keyboard functions so i think i might have a bad mobo

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by Spl Engineering
well I should be ordering the mobo and the cpu's this weekend ...... but i wanted to wait and make sure the first set up i ordered was up and running b4 i did so.... and wouldnt you know it.....the first one wont boot to bios ..no keyboard functions so i think i might have a bad mobo

Bummer. Can you post more detailed information? Maybe we can trouble-shoot this out.

Are you trying to run a stripped down system (PSU, MB, one stick of RAM, one CPU, one video card. Nothing else attached.)

Do you have the D-LED system hooked up? Is it giving you an error code?

What brand and wattage power supply are you using? An insufficient power supply is one of the most common reasons for a new setup to not POST or to run unstable.

[Spl Engineering]

the case is a Raidmax 278wbp it came with 350watt PS
the system is

xp2600
Ati 7500
crucial 256 ddr
Lite on Cd/Cdrw
western digital 40gb 7200
giga byte nF2Ultra400|5P1A4D GA-7N400-L A

Sytem boots and go thru normal checks but after initial beep goes to fast clicking sound like a key is depressed and on screen options press "del" key to get to bios.. but have no keyboard fuctions... I tried 2 keyboard <both standard not usb> Ram works in slot 1,2,3 check video card for compliance. cleared CMOS

let me add now only booted bare bones sytem ram /vid card/mobo and PS

[cmcquistion]

That power supply is definitely a problem.

See if you can beg, borrow, or steal a higher wattage one, and try that. Preferably, try to get something that is at LEAST 450 watts. 500 watts is the baseline, that I suggest.

[Spl Engineering]

you mean 350 watts is not enough for a single AMD 2600 machine?

this is not the dually .....just one i hoped to network with it....basicly my experimental machine

[cmcquistion]

No. Dual AMD boards need more juice, even when just running one CPU. I don't know why, I just know that they do.

This comes up, here, about once every two weeks. This exact problem. Someone trying to run their AMD dually with a 300-400 watt PSU. Even with just one CPU and a stripped down system, it still won't POST. They, eventually, get a higher wattage PSU, and the problem goes away.

[Spl Engineering]

http://bioscentral.com/beepcodes/awardbeep.htm

this is the beep code i think im getting endless and repeating....says memory seating ?

this is a single processor board..... the dual board has not got here yet.... is step 2 of 5 from new egg.....

[Caffinehog]

What memory and what board? If you are using a single CPU board and trying to use registered crucial, it probably won't work.

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by Spl Engineering
http://bioscentral.com/beepcodes/awardbeep.htm

this is the beep code i think im getting endless and repeating....says memory seating ?

this is a single processor board..... the dual board has not got here yet.... is step 2 of 5 from new egg.....

I thought you were using the K7D.

[Spl Engineering]

Ok I got it working and all up and running now.... so Im ready for the Dually parts to get here now ....thanks... I cant beleive after all the problems I was having it was a simple grounding issue :shakes head: guess i need to slow down on this ...