higher cpu/vid: which is better?

[maxyvits]

Hi guys! My rig and present oc's consist of the following (should make a sig but too lazy :p ):

MSI K7N2G-L
Barton 2800+ @ 2170
Volcano 11
Antec 1030W
(r)Radeon 9500 Pro @351/303
2x256 Kingston DDR333
Maxtor 60GB 7200RPM Ultra DMA

CAS Latency: 2.5
RAS to CAS Delay: 3
RAS Precharge: 3
Cycle Time (Tras): 7

Vcore 1.725
Temps = cpu: 32/4 idle; High: 53; Average: 35-37

This is the most stable oc I can get with the vid maxxed before I get artifacts (memory overheating). This stability pertains to hours of gaming. If I move the fsb to a measly 177 and a vcore of about 1.75/1.80 my games (i.e. UT2K3) crash to desktop after about two rounds: general default protection error. I'm assuming the culprit is the oc'd vid card (or memory?) since everything else is stable if I up the fsb ante. At any rate, I know the cpu can go significantly higher with those temps.

The question is: would lowering the memory/clock of the vid card to accommodate faster cpu cycles really pay off in terms of performance? Aren't the real benefits in a system as this attained by leaving the vid card clocked higher than the cpu, if one must? I know the answer is to be found in doing the work oneself but, as you know, it's a long and tedious process to which I was hoping you'd provide the shorter answer. As I said, I'm lazy ;)

[Skiing Squirrel]

First off: What kind of ram is the ram? PC-2100? PC-2700? Your temps are a little on the warm side, but shouldn't be that... What kind of motherboard do you have? Also, bumping the V-core on the chip could probably solve the stability issue. I am thinking since the fsb is at 177, and if you arent running an NF2 board, then that could be causing it. I doubt the vid card is causing it.

[Lithan]

1. I doubt it's a vcore issue. Very few bartons have trouble hitting 2200 on default voltage, much less 1.80v.

2. I doubt it's a mobo issue. Even the crappiest nf2's should hit 177fsb no problem

3. I doubt it's an agp issue. Just a hunch.

4. I'm suspecting the ram. What is it? pc2100, pc2400, pc2700, pc3000, pc3200, pc3500?

[maxyvits]

Right, sorry about the RAM:

It's Kingston DDR 333 (PC 2700), 2 sticks of 256.

Skiing Squirrel: I don't find those temps warm at all. On full load and after hours of gaming the temps won't go higher than 53. I gave you the highest rating, according to Motherboard Monitor. The average is about 35-7. The motherboard is listed in my post: MSI K7N2G-L (it's a decent nforce2 board).

[Molester]

it's gotta be the ram, i have pc2700 ddr333 and i can't get past 172fsb or i loose stability(same symptoms you listed, start getting kicked out of games), what is your multiplier and fsb set at now?

i say lower the fsb to 172, and multi of 14x, w/ vcore of 1.750(up vcore if needed) and see if it runs there, that will give you 2400, should give same temps

other than that, like me, need to get better ram pc3200 ddr400 or pc3500 ddr434

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
it's gotta be the ram, i have pc2700 ddr333 and i can't get past 172fsb or i loose stability(same symptoms you listed, start getting kicked out of games), what is your multiplier and fsb set at now?

i say lower the fsb to 172, and multi of 14x, w/ vcore of 1.750(up vcore if needed) and see if it runs there, that will give you 2400, should give same temps

other than that, like me, need to get better ram pc3200 ddr400 or pc3500 ddr434


CPUZ says: Multiplier: x 12.5; FSB: 173.6
I'll try the rates you suggest ... thanks.

[Molester]

if you get kicked, up the vcore

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
if you get kicked, up the vcore

It turns out my BIOS only has a high of 13 for multiplier. When I set it to 13 x 174, I get a setting of 865MHz! I guess I'd have to unlock the cpu to get it to work at that multiplier rate?

[Molester]

yeah, guess you will, there are threads here on how to do this, my upper multi's are unlocked, as it came 166 x 13, yours came w/ 12.5 or less, so the lowers are unlocked, good luck, the mod dosn't seem that hard, do some good reading, and ask lots of questions

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
yeah, guess you will, there are threads here on how to do this, my upper multi's are unlocked, as it came 166 x 13, yours came w/ 12.5 or less, so the lowers are unlocked, good luck, the mod dosn't seem that hard, do some good reading, and ask lots of questions


Thanks! But say I was to stay with my present configuration, would it be better, performance-wise, to stay with a higher clocked vid card over than that of a cpu? That was my original question. Anyone? I know it will depend on the app, whether it's graphics or processor intensive. However, an educated opinion would be appreciated.

[Molester]

i think the vid card is fine and leave it oc'd, i'm sure if you're getting booted from games, you need to up the vcore, the cpu isn't stable, in other words, more power, hehehe, it's not like my 9800PRO, rated at 400/400, is running at 400/400, so i don't believe it's the overclocked vid, though it may need some ramsinks, and maybe a sink on the south bridge and/mosfets if you think it may be a heat issue

[Mustanley]

You can isolate the ram by upping the FSB and dropping the memory bus to say, 75% of the FSB.
If the memory is not the culprit, it may be an issue of running the PCI/AGP bus out of spec. Form what I've heard, the MSI board does not incorporate a PCI lock into the board design.

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
i think the vid card is fine and leave it oc'd, i'm sure if you're getting booted from games, you need to up the vcore, the cpu isn't stable, in other words, more power, hehehe, it's not like my 9800PRO, rated at 400/400, is running at 400/400, so i don't believe it's the overclocked vid, though it may need some ramsinks, and maybe a sink on the south bridge and/mosfets if you think it may be a heat issue

I doubt it, Molester. I up'd the vcore just now to 1.8 at an FSB of 177 and it crashes even sooner.

Update: I doubt it even more now. I just stock clocked my vid at the same settings and it didn't crash. I'm pretty sure it's a combination of a relatively high oc'd vid card and perhaps unoverclockable memory.

[Molester]

well, i seriously don't think you can up the fsb past 172 on that ram, i just tried to do 179 x 14 to equall 2506 and it failed, and that was w/ a vcore of 1.85, so i still stick that you can't go over 172, so, if at 172 you are getting kicked, as i used to, up the vcore to 1.800 and up the memory voltage to 2.8(Dimm v??)

i have a thread going called Athlon XP 2700+ @ 2408, check it out

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
well, i seriously don't think you can up the fsb past 172 on that ram, i just tried to do 179 x 14 to equall 2506 and it failed, and that was w/ a vcore of 1.85, so i still stick that you can't go over 172, so, if at 172 you are getting kicked, as i used to, up the vcore to 1.800 and up the memory voltage to 2.8(Dimm v??)

i have a thread going called Athlon XP 2700+ @ 2408, check it out

Hey! It's 174 actually. I'll try uping the mem voltage, see if that helps. Thanks for the thread. I'll check it out.

Update: My bios only has three/four options for mem voltage: 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, and Auto. It was on 2.6. I put it at 2.7 at a cpu oc of 12.5 x 177 and 1.8 vcore. I played three rounds of UT 2003, which is when it usually crashes. Low and behold I got to a fourth round! Sadly, though, it crashed soon after that :eek: Maybe it really is the memory?

[Molester]

can you get the vcore higher? sounds the same to what happened to me, kept crashing only at later times, if you up it again, i bet it'll hold

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
can you get the vcore higher? sounds the same to what happened to me, kept crashing only at later times, if you up it again, i bet it'll hold

Over 1.8? To what? And is that safe? I hear that one shouldn't go over 1.8.

[Molester]

as long as you're below 60c under max load, yeah it's ok, up to 1.825 and check temps

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
as long as you're below 60c under max load, yeah it's ok, up to 1.825 and check temps

I'm outta luck. Bios only goes up to 1.8 vcore. :( Oh well ... but hey thanks for all the help!

[Molester]

guess it's time for a volt mod, good luck

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
guess it's time for a volt mod, good luck

Well, I guess I should've tried the rates on other games. I just tried 177x12.5 @ 1.8 vcore and 2.7 memcore on Enemy Territory and The Hulk and it was rock solid. Maybe it's just UT2K3 that doesn't like anything over 174? All these variables!

Update: It's cool, too, with BF 1942 @ 180 x 12.5 etc. etc. Works as well with 3DMark 2001SE and 3DMark 2003. Any idea why it crashes to desktop only with UT 2k3?

[Molester]

yeah, quake 3 took a dump on me about an hour ago, hard shut down, had to wait to turn computer turn back on, gotta get better cooling, just 15 more days, just 15 more days, just 15 more days, grrrrr

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by maxyvits


Well, I guess I should've tried the rates on other games. I just tried 177x12.5 @ 1.8 vcore and 2.7 memcore on Enemy Territory and The Hulk and it was rock solid. Maybe it's just UT2K3 that doesn't like anything over 174? All these variables!

Update: It's cool, too, with BF 1942 @ 180 x 12.5 etc. etc. Works as well with 3DMark 2001SE and 3DMark 2003. Any idea why it crashes to desktop only with UT 2k3?

Any idea why it crashes to desktop only with UT2K3? Does it really dislike oc's that much?

[Molester]

i think ut2k3 just uses more ram, richer graphics, i really don't like ut2k3, too much crap and detail

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Molester
i think ut2k3 just uses more ram, richer graphics, i really don't like ut2k3, too much crap and detail

Dude, that's like saying you don't like a Lamborghini!

[Gautam]

It seems like your video card is the problem. If the processor can cross Prime95, but only UT2K3 crashes, its most likely means to back off on the video card's overclock only.

[maxyvits]

Originally posted by Gautam
It seems like your video card is the problem. If the processor can cross Prime95, but only UT2K3 crashes, its most likely means to back off on the video card's overclock only.

Hi Gautam: Yep, that's what I said originally. But Molestor disagreed. It seems obvious to me now, after recurrent tweaking, that it is the vid card oc that UT2K3 in particular doesn't like (all other games run fine).