Photoshop...Intel or AMD

[AlanSr]

I run a digital photography studio and i'm getting ready to buy a laptop, then later this year build a new home computer.

I mainly use photoshop and a few other photo programs.
Which processer would be better for this? Intel or AMD.

also for my house system would I better off getting a single processer or getting a duel processer?

[Flame]

laptop = intel (cooler and faster, not to mention there aren't too many amd laptops anymore)

house rig = tossup. i'd personally go intel but the difference with a dual amd isn't a whole lot. the HT P4 would still beat the dual AMD's and end up costing about the same once you figure in the dually board and the extra amd chip and heatsink/fan.

[cack01]

Its pretty darn hard to beat the performace of a centrino notebook.

[AlanSr]

How does this sound for a laptop....
Its from Zuke computers

P4 3.06
1GB of ram PC 2100
60GB harddrive
16in screen 1600x1200
DVD Burner

I just noticed that the 60gig is only 4200 rpm, and they have a 40gig that runs 5400. Would I see a difference in speed?

Also are those laptop coolers any good? or worth the money?

Thanks for the help.

For the house rig would a duely be better than a single processer???

[AlanSr]

Here is the site

http://www.zuke.com/systemConfig.asp

[Maxvla]

for the lappy i would definately go for a centrino. they are very powerful and have great battery life/temps.

the house rig it just depends how you want to go...

[AlanSr]

What site can I find centrino lappys at?
I don't think I've heard of centrino...are then new???

I really haven't been into comuters for about a year now, since I started my business. I just don't have time to tinker and o/c like I used to. Plus I can't take the chance of my system going down if do something wrong.

The house system, money isn't really a huge problem because it is going to be a business investment so I would rather send more then save a lil and regret it.

as far as single or duely, I need whatever is going to bennifit me the most as far as photoshop.
Fastest and most stable.

[Caffinehog]

A pair of dual bartons will beat the pants off a single 3ghz intel processor. Even a pair of cheap tbreds will beat it. Hyperthreading won't get you anything. And, provided you are willing to manually change multipliers and do an L5 mod, the price will be about the same. This applies whether you overclock or not.

Now, gaming is an entirely different story.

But if your main purpose for the rig is photoshop or video editing, then dual AMD is the way to go.

Edit: business, eh? You might want to just spring for 2800+MP's and not worry about modding. Or go for dual P4 Xeons if your pockets are deep enough. I can't say I'd reccomend dual opterons at this point.

[Caffinehog]

And anybody who argues:
Two 2800MP's will run at a total of 4.26ghz.
And hyperthreading is NOT two cpu's or anything close to it.

Since many photoshop calculations are working with more than 32 bits, an opteron would theoretically help... BUT: There is no 64-bit windows yet, nor is there a 64-bit photoshop, at least not for PC's. On top of this, only one weird-name board supports AGP-pro for dual opterons. And I don't think there's any dual opterons with regular agp either. They also need expensive, hard to get ECC pc2700, and the opteron processors just aren't too fast yet.

What about the G5?
Well, I never thought I'd say this, but it's a viable option. Just don't plan on upgrading it or doing much else with it. And keep in mind that it costs more.

[Kino]

Originally posted by Caffinehog
And anybody who argues:
Two 2800MP's will run at a total of 4.26ghz.
And hyperthreading is NOT two cpu's or anything close to it.

Since many photoshop calculations are working with more than 32 bits, an opteron would theoretically help... BUT: There is no 64-bit windows yet, nor is there a 64-bit photoshop, at least not for PC's. On top of this, only one weird-name board supports AGP-pro for dual opterons. And I don't think there's any dual opterons with regular agp either. They also need expensive, hard to get ECC pc2700, and the opteron processors just aren't too fast yet.

If memory serves me right im ALMOST sure there is a 64-bit wondows xp version already, and its been around for awhile... if i just had a link...
you might want to look into the *dundundun* Microsoft website! *scream*

EDIT: but its true there are not alot of 64-bit programs out there, so you post is correct except for the windows thing :D

[Xaotic]

On the laptop HDD, the performance will generally better with the 5400RPM drive. They normally have 8MB buffers as well. The exception is the Toshiba MK4019GAX. It has a 16MB cache, but the firmware is less than optimized and it runs much slower than the other 40GB 5400s. If you can find out the manufacturer of the drive, you'd be able to estimate performance better.

Also, on the laptop, that's actually a desktop processor and you may find it throttling back from thermal issues. Additionally, the cases are generally bulky and battery life tends to be short. The centrinos are a very good implementation for laptops. For the reasons listed above and they generally run faster, despite slower clock speeds. than the P4Ms

[AlanSr]

So where can I find centrinos?

[Xaotic]

Easiest way is to run a search on pricewatch, many companies are producing them. They're not as inexpensive as some of the other implementations, but I've seen battery life tests over 7 hours, while the conventional P4Ms run at 2-2.5 hours. I work in storage development for a manufacturer and can not recommend brands.

[AlanSr]

How much ram is to much for a house system.
I'm looking at one system where I can add upto 4gb of ram.
Is that good or over kill

[method().man]

Originally posted by AlanSr
How much ram is to much for a house system.
I'm looking at one system where I can add upto 4gb of ram.
Is that good or over kill

Well, you should be able to answer this question better than anyone else. For example, if your photography or images is/are created specifically for content on the Internet, 4GB is probably overkill as the image files you'll be using won't nearly be large enough to utilize that kind of memory (well, probably). Really depends on what you're gonna be doing in PS. This is one of those things where performance can really scale up indefinately with more and more RAM depending on the application.

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Caffinehog
A pair of dual bartons will beat the pants off a single 3ghz intel processor. Even a pair of cheap tbreds will beat it. Hyperthreading won't get you anything. And, provided you are willing to manually change multipliers and do an L5 mod, the price will be about the same. This applies whether you overclock or not.

Now, gaming is an entirely different story.

But if your main purpose for the rig is photoshop or video editing, then dual AMD is the way to go.

Edit: business, eh? You might want to just spring for 2800+MP's and not worry about modding. Or go for dual P4 Xeons if your pockets are deep enough. I can't say I'd reccomend dual opterons at this point.
just because the amd rig has two real processors doesn't mean its faster ;)

you should research this before saying which one would spank the other.

a 2.53 p4 and dually 2000mp were virtually dead even trading who wins each round back and forth when put through photoshop and other rendering paces. sure thats kinda old and the 2.53 didn't have hyperthreading so... it just gets worse for the AMD rig.

[stan03]

if you have alot of money alienware makes some pretty good performance laptops... and a question does a centrino outperform a p4m?

[Krusty]

Originally posted by AlanSr
So where can I find centrinos?

Dell has a great Centrino notebook. The Inspiron 600m. I'm typing on one right now. Dell also has an unparallelled warranty.

Soo...if going for a notebook, get a dell.

If going for a desktop, I would think one really important feature to help photoshop run fast would be memory bandwidth. when you've got a 600MB image, you're going to be accessing memory quite a b it. I'd think one of them pretty 800Mhz fsb P4's would be good.

EDIT: also, for a desktop machine, you would likely benefit a good amount from setting up a RAID array. So be sure to choose a motherboard with onboard RAID. Then just buy 2 smaller identical drives instead of one big one.

[David]

For the home rig, I would say dual AMD CPUs. Dual AMD XP2400+s, even, running at 2GHz each (stock speed) will be pretty cool, and pretty fast.

They will beat a P4 with HT, definately. 4GHz AMD Power vs 3GHz Intel, hmm....

If someone wants me to run some benches on my duallie AMD XP2100+ rig in photoshop, I'd be willing. Each CPU runs at 1.73GHz. It would also be nice to compare it to a 2.4 or 3.0GHz P4 w/ HT.

Originally posted by Maxvla

a 2.53 p4 and dually 2000mp were virtually dead even trading who wins each round back and forth when put through photoshop and other rendering paces. sure thats kinda old and the 2.53 didn't have hyperthreading so... it just gets worse for the AMD rig.

Link to article please.

EDIT: And HT != SMP.

[CPFitz14]

Originally posted by Maxvla

just because the amd rig has two real processors doesn't mean its faster ;)

you should research this before saying which one would spank the other.

a 2.53 p4 and dually 2000mp were virtually dead even trading who wins each round back and forth when put through photoshop and other rendering paces. sure thats kinda old and the 2.53 didn't have hyperthreading so... it just gets worse for the AMD rig.


Without trying to turn this into a huge debate...


Just from personal experience Dual processors will knock the pants off of a single for things like PS, and especially rendering. I used to have a single 1.6a @ 2.4. I upgraded to 2x 1700xps, which didn't run as fast as the p4's, but performed better, and gave me better rendering times. Not only that, but I could do other things while I was rendering.


-CPFitz-

[Maxvla]

part 2 with 2.53 and dually 2000+: http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/07_jul/features/cw_macvspc2.htm

part 3 with 3.06ghz HT http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm (there is no amd rig in this test but you can use it to compare with the 2.53 in the part 2 test)

it should be noted that the 800fsb chip isn't represented in this test.

[druidelder]

stan03:

First off, a little clarification. Centrino is not a chip. It is a standard. The standard includes integrated Intel 802.11b, a new chipset, and the Pentium-M (not to be confused with the Mobile PIII, PIII-M, Mobile PIV, or the PIV-M, these are all different chips).

The main difference between the Mobile PIII/Mobile PIV and the PIII-M/PIV-M is that one of them is more of a desktop chip that is rigged to work in a notebook, while the other has more notebook features (to extend battery life, etc...). I don't remember which is which though. The Pentium-M is the first chip designed from the ground up specifically for notebooks. It is essentially the good from the PIII added to the good from the PIV. The concepts taken from the PIV have been matured and refined so that they actually work well. This means that the Pentium-M does not need the high clock speeds of the PIV to make the architecture perform.

Second, in answer to your question, "Does it beat the PIV?" Yes, and no. The Pentium-M is currently available in speeds ranging from 900MHz-1.7GHz. It benchmarks a little over a Mobile PIV rated 1GHz higher. Thus, the 1.7 Pentium-M is equivalent to something between a 2.7GHz and a 2.8GHz Mobile PIV. I have not seen it rated against a PIV-M though. Since the PIV is out in speeds higher than 2.8GHz, the top of the line PIV will beat the top of the line Pentium-M (but not by huge margins). The Intel site has some performance comparisons, here (http://www.intel.com/products/notebook/processors/index.htm?iid=ipp_home+note_processor&). Also note that that Pentium-M uses a 400MHz fsb, as opposed to the 533MHz of the Mobile PIV.

AlanSr:

I personally would go for a Pentium-M based notebook. A notebook does not have to be Centrino to have this processor (IBM makes such a notebook). The main benefit to getting a non-Centrino Pentium-M is that you get most of the features, but usually with 802.11g integrated wireless (instead of 802.11b). However, if your work environment uses a VPN, you should note that Centrino (but not necessarily Pentium-M) based notebooks have issues that can lead to BSOD when using the VPN. It is related to software that controls the Intel Pro Wireless 2100 module (which is required for Centrino, but not Pentium-M). Intel has already released a "fix" (more of a band-aid actually) for this. I am not sure if this effects the non-Centrino Pentium-M systems or not. It is possible that the application controls other parts of the chipset too, who knows. Expect 6.5-7.5 hours of battery life with Pentium-M or Centrino systems. If you can wait, the new core for the Pentium-M should be released in Q4. It will be manufactured using a .9 micron process and include a 2MB cache (current cache is 1MB). The new core will only be released in a 1.8GHz version this year (higher speeds next year). At the very least, this should bring down prices on current Pentium-M based systems (currently ~$2000-$3000 for decently equipped notebooks).

Maxvla:

Check your links, they both go to the 2.53 P4/dual MP2200+/dual G4 1GHz comparison. (but if you go to page 3 of that link you can get to the other article.) Or I suppose I could do it, here is part three (http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm).

[Caffinehog]

Originally posted by Maxvla
it should be noted that the 800fsb chip isn't represented in this test.

I agree with your asessment that both are close. But notably, the test systems were RDRAM, the memory bandwidth of which is close to that of 800fsb dual channel DDR, so I doubt that it will make much difference.

Now, judging from what I see, dual P4 Xeons may be the best way to go, at least performance-wise. If you choose the DDR option, go with the E7501 chipset, since it is dual channel and will get you canterwood-like bandwidth. RDRAM is also a possibility, but it's kind of expensive and obsolete.

Of course, this is if you can stomach the cost of a $300-$500 board and $300-$500 processors.

[fhanderson]

I've been doing digital imaging on photos sine the Pentium Pro days. With the new procesors available, dual processors are overkill for this kind of work. The main thing to consider is RAM and drive setups first then get either a Barton 400mhz or a P3 with HT. Get as much ddr 400 ram as the motherboard you choose will hold. You need a seperate drive dedicated to the Photshop scratch disk, the first partition on another drive for the Windows page file, and the OS and programs on a third drive. I use an ATA controller for 2 drives and the onboard IDE controller for the third drive. If you can afford SATA drives fine but they're not neccessary. I have 2 WD 800JB and a WD 400JB. I'm using a 2.53 P4 533mhz with 2G of PC 2700 Ram. I handle 132MB files almost daily and 212MB files often and this system has performed well enough that I have no plans to upgrade it until new software dictates it. It gets to the point where there isn't a lot of difference when doubling the speed. Is 15sec. that much longer than 7sec.

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by druidelder
Maxvla:

Check your links, they both go to the 2.53 P4/dual MP2200+/dual G4 1GHz comparison. (but if you go to page 3 of that link you can get to the other article.) Or I suppose I could do it, here is part three (http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/11_nov/reviews/cw_macvspciii.htm).
whoops! :) forgot to copy the part 3 link :o

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Caffinehog

I agree with your asessment that both are close. But notably, the test systems were RDRAM, the memory bandwidth of which is close to that of 800fsb dual channel DDR, so I doubt that it will make much difference.

Now, judging from what I see, dual P4 Xeons may be the best way to go, at least performance-wise. If you choose the DDR option, go with the E7501 chipset, since it is dual channel and will get you canterwood-like bandwidth. RDRAM is also a possibility, but it's kind of expensive and obsolete.

Of course, this is if you can stomach the cost of a $300-$500 board and $300-$500 processors.
sandra standard scores:

4200 rimm at 533bus on the 850E gets 3381mb/s

pc2100 at 533bus on the 7205 (granitebay) gets 3268mb/s

pc3200 at 800bus on the 875P (canterwood) gets 5007mb/s

not exactly "close" as you say...

it would be a waste of money to go with either the granitebay or the rdram options.

besides the thing you were talking about with the rdram and 800fsb chips getting the same bandwidth (which i just showed they don't) is that the chip itself is running at much higher fsb so that will also increase performance.

dual xeons is overkill. and you don't hafta spend 300-500 for a chip. its been proven that just about any 2.4c will hit 3ghz or higher with no modifications. 175 for a processor, IC7 for the board and you are at around 325 for both parts.

[Caffinehog]

Yeah... I almost forgot about RAID. A nice RAID 0 setup, perhaps with a pair of 10K rpm WD raptors, will provide a very nice performance boost for this kind of setup.

[JoT]

Originally posted by David
They will beat a P4 with HT, definately. 4GHz AMD Power vs 3GHz Intel, hmm....

I've seen this issue brought up two times in this thread. From my understanding, dual processor power does NOT add up, it merely gives you more cycles at that speed to use. Usually, each individual processor goes slower than normal, because it shares the same BUS and RAM overhead.

This is from the little bit I've researched into SMP in recent months, so I could be wrong, or I could be telling these guys that their whole thinking is incorrect, or I could be agreeing with them and don't realize it.

I love my confusing little posts. :D

[star882]

"the HT P4 would still beat the dual AMD's and end up costing about the same once you figure in the dually board and the extra amd chip and heatsink/fan."
My friend Tom Stage says that a single 3000+ Britney beats a 3.0GHz Pentium 4(it will even beat dual Pentium 4s in floating point operations(the Britney is almost 4x the speed of a Pentium 4 for floating point)).

[madcow235]

Whats a "3000+ Britney"?

[Krusty]

perhaps it's a sexier name than Barton, so he decided to name it himself?

[madcow235]

Oh that is a sexah name

[star882]

"perhaps it's a sexier name than Barton, so he decided to name it himself?"
Barton = Athlon XP = external DDR controller
Britney = integrated 128-bit DDR controller

[madcow235]

Isnt that an opteron? Sounds cool

[Caffinehog]

So, star882... where can I get one of these "britney" cpu's and the motherboard to go with it? If they really exist, I want one. And am I going to be looking for the name "Britney" on them? Or do they go by another name?

[star882]

"where can I get one of these "britney" cpu's and the motherboard to go with it? If they really exist, I want one."
Yes, they do exist(my friend Tom Stage has 2 of those CPUs in a dual Britney mobo).

[palee72]

Originally posted by star882
"where can I get one of these "britney" cpu's and the motherboard to go with it? If they really exist, I want one."
Yes, they do exist(my friend Tom Stage has 2 of those CPUs in a dual Britney mobo).


Just so you know, if you see a post you want to reply to and quote what they say, at the bottom of their post, is a button that says "quote". Press that, and it will auto quote what they said, like what I did above.


Less typing for you, and easier for everyone else because they notice you are quoting another user.


(BTW.. Is Tom Stage really your friend, or is that just an icon type thing? I've only noticed it in about 12 posts..anyway.. Just wondering...)


BTW.. you've hyped this Britney thing pretty well... Do you have any links on reviews?

[Caffinehog]

Yeah, I want a Britney. Where can I get one?