Is Overclocking Dying

[UnseenMenace]

Full Article - Overclockers.Com (http://www.overclockers.com/tips612/)

From The Article "Is Overclocking Dying?" - Ed Stroligo - 8/24/01
The Inquirer has detailed description an article on the cost of a complete budget Morgan DDR system for less than $600.

What's scary is that the price of a 1.4Ghz TBird system might not even be $50 more than that.

Leaving aside some of the other budget components, you can buy the core components (CPU, mobo, 256Mb of DDR) of arguably the hottest nonoverclocked system available today for less than $250, with shipping.

Is there even any point to "economic" (as opposed to "hobbyist") overclocking anymore?

Buying one of these and a 1.4Ghz TBird will cost the same or less than buying another type DDR mobo and a 1Ghz TBird, with none of the overclockming hassles.

I have to be honest, if I had to build a system for an average person right now, I'd be hardpressed to choose the latter.

What Is The Core Purpose of Overclocking?

Whether you're a hobbyist or just looking for a better deal, I think both groups share the desire for a high-performing computer.

I think we need to emphasize that rather than making particular rituals to get there a litmus test.

As I've said before, if AMD "defeats" overclocking by making high-end non-overclocking dirt cheap, I'll take "defeats" like that any day.

The hobbyists will always be around doing their thing, maybe relatively fewer than a few years ago, but they'll be there.

In its place will be even a greater number of people who make not overclock, but are interested in everything else overclockers do.

It's important to realize that nonoverclockers help overclockers out, too. The more demand there is for high performance equipment, the more there will be, and the cheaper it will be.

On top of that, if there is a population of people who have already gone as far as building their own machines with high performance components, why, they're already 90% on the way to overclocking. You've got a pool of potential converts right in your hands.

But not if they get scorned and mocked for not taking the final step. You never improve yourself by putting someone else down.[/B]

NOTE: This Information Is Edited :- Reading The Full Article Is Recomended

Although this article is somewhat dated now, the questions it asks appear more relevant than ever.
Being honest here can you personally tell the difference between a 1800 mhz processor and a 2500 mhz processor in day to day use without benchmarks ?
And computer systems get faster will we reach a point where overclocking is pointless.. or do you overclock, not because you need to go faster, only because you can ?
Why do you overclock and do you think that Overclockers are waiting for extinction ?

[Cowboy Shane]

I think overclocking is pretty irrelevant to the vast majority of people. It's nice to tweak a system and know that you are really getting all you can out of it, but I don't think many people can tell the difference between a fully tweaked system and one running at default during normal usage unless the system was just incredibly poorly configured to start.

I bumped the FSB on my current sytem and pushed the frequency a little beyond the normal specs, but I can't really tell any difference in it when I push the multiplier higher. Save for bragging rights, my system seems to be fine where it's at.

Of course, then there is the converse argument of the person who needs all the speed that can be gotten for critical applications. Tweaking the system and overclocking a bit in those cases is needed, but if the application if that CPU hungry and that critical, then you should really be spending the money on a faster CPU in the first place. I have a couple of servers at work that need a few more cycles per second, but I'm not about to overclock them.

I guess the only real reasons I can see for overclocking now are the satisfaction of knowing that your system is fully tuned or if there is some application (probably a game in this case) that just needs a little more CPU speed to run acceptably. In the former case, aggresive memory timings and higher FSB speeds may benefit more than overclocking. In the case of the latter, if the application doesn't run acceptably now, then it is not likely that getting a few more MHz out of your CPU will help much. I remember when I upgraded from my P120 to a P200 I didn't get much benefit in games, but my Voodoo 1 board I dropped in certainly helped.

In the days of the celerons and P3s, there was reason to overclock. I could certainly tell the difference after I bumped my P3 600 to 900, but how many of you can really tell the difference between 1500 and 2000 outside of benchmarks? Between 2000 and 2500?

It seems to me that hardware has far outpaced software at the moment, and by the time the software catches up there should be even faster CPUs to be had.

[Mico]

There are not too many computer companies that sell Gaming rigs for a price that is comparable to what you could build one for, over or un-clocked. I think the reason why we still build out computers is because we demand performance, and a $250 Dell is not going to give near the performance of a $700 homebuilt system. The other reason, is that buying that same $700 system from a gaming computer company would likely cost $1,500. We need performance, and if by building our own it becomes cheaper, then by all means, we will build our own.

[Cowboy Shane]

I certainly agree about building your own sytem, though not for cost reasons. I find that if I have to build a system from scratch (including a licensed Operating System, unless the user is willing to try linux) it is generally about the same cost as buying a comparable OEM system from a place like Monarch Computers or ABS Computers.

What I get in return for my time, however, is a system that has only what I want and all the critical components will be the best I could get at the time.

[Ducker]

It'll never die with the people on these fourms! :D

[Cjwinnit]

Originally posted by Ducker
It'll never die with the people on these fourms! :D

Especially when you consider this forum has about 30,000 members ;)

[cmcquistion]

To me, building computers from scratch, then tweaking, and overclocking is about performance, cost, and quality.

Honestly, almost anyone around here can build a computer that is of better quality and performance than a Dell or HP.

The OEM computer companies care about the bottom line, more than any other factor, honestly. I don't blame them, though. When you run a business, you're in business to make money.

I have had so many Dell, HP, and Compaq machines that were really built with sub-par parts, I can't even count them. It doesn't cost me any more money to buy the latest and fastest parts, yet those OEM builders don't do that, for some reason.

One small example is hard drives. Two years ago, my company bought a dozen CAD workstations. UDMA100 was out. It was available. It was widespread and no more expensive than older technology. What was in the machines? Loud, 5400 RPM, UDMA33 hard drives! The worst part is that we paid premium prices for crummy hardware.

No, I can't tell a difference between 1466 MHz and 1833 MHz on clockspeed alone, but I can tell a difference, by bumping up the FSB to 166, on a cheap XP1700, and running at at 1833 MHz, at less-than-default voltage. I built half a dozen machines for work, in the last month, with this configuration and they run great. I build machines, from scratch, with high quality, high performance, low noise components (I'm a stickler about noise.) I get a better machine, for less money, than I could have bought from anyone.

This is why I build, tweak, and overclock. Maximum quality, maximum performance, minimum cost.

[dippy_skoodlez]

I know what ya mean by getting close to OEM's.. But you can get the *choice* of components.. My mom paid $700 for a 1.3ghz palimino. It wont OC, and it barely plays the sims, or diablo II. My computer cost me $300. I can play splinter cell at full settings and soon half life 2 :D

[ColtIce]

i look at overclocking as kind of like building a hot rod.i do it just to see how far i can push it.i also like the problems it causes,allowing me to fiddle with my hardware that if i left at stock i wouldn't have(the problems).i also use overclocking as an excuse to learn all i can about the hardware involved.i am a budget overclocker so i am always a year or two behind the cutting edge,so i'm always trying to "catch up".i'm sure i am not alone

[dippy_skoodlez]

I hear ya ;) geforce 4 that I just bought.. WHOO! what an upgrade from my direct x 6 TnT2.... and just got some ddr ;)

[Ducker]

I can't afford to build a hot rod. But I can afford to build hot computer :D

[nahmus]

Lots of my friends ask me about computers all the time. If its someones mom or there "mechanicaly challanged" I will tell them to buy the dell. Lets face it. They are great middle of the road computers. They run for years (mostly) without trouble and dell has a good support system on the internet. I usually end up helping these people after they get their system and for that group the Dell is like the honda accord of computers.

Gateway has gotten better with their quality but I still am not ready to recoment them unless they have a killer deal.

As for me and a few of my enthusist friends I always recomend building one. You will almost always end up with a better system customized for what you want to do. I have DJ friends that I went light on the graphics but way up on the CPU,FSB and Memory for their mixing. Other gamer friends I go into gaming performance. Some of them are not the greatest technical people but they like to see how things work, and if something goes wrong they are patient and will work with me getting it resolved. They understand about the valus of keeping drivers current and they learn.

I just had a friend who used to have trouble with the universal remote build his own system from scratch (with only a few recomendations). He was so proud when it worked. He is now hooked for life!!

Its all about how it works,why it works. Once that is figured out then how can it go faster, smoother, cleaner (the same applies to cars with me) and it all starts over again.

[Fuzzbeaner]

This is an interesting issue, and one I've thought about plenty.

But I think I've always had a slightly different take on Overclocking then most people.

I view it as a hobby as well as a preformance gain, sort of like hot rodding a car, like Coltice said. And because overclocking is a two fold activity, the reasons it's declining are two fold as well.

Yes, preformance is becoming less of an issue, and the differences between getting a 466 celeron to 600 Mhz (mmm memories) and getting a 1800+ to 2200+ are severe, and now far less notable. But the other side of the coin is the hobbiest side.

The nitty-gritty DIY world of overclocking is going away. It's no longer fidiling with the jumpers and hoping for the best, ingenious proprietary cooling from old powersupplies you find at the dump (ahh more memories). Overclocking's being brutally commercialized. REALLY commercialized. 30,000 members? OCing was in its heyday when there were 30.

-Jeff

[stan03]

Originally posted by UnseenMenace
[B]Although this article is somewhat dated now, the questions it asks appear more relevant than ever.
Being honest here can you personally tell the difference between a 1800 mhz processor and a 2500 mhz processor in day to day use without benchmarks ?


What is day to day use, like what the general person uses it for, or what i use it for? I "might" be able to tell a difference, but not a very great one. But the question was whether overclocking would die. I don't think the fact that you don't notice much of a difference changes anything. Most of the people who overclock dont do it because there computer is too slow, its because the want to. There is absolutely no reason that a normal person NEEDs to overclock a 2.4C to 3.2 ghz. But plenty of people do because the WANT to.

[sandman001]

I can tell a difference between 1.47 and 2.4ghz. Playing games it really shows up, and overlocking my video card has helped with games as well.

[donny_paycheck]

Overclocking is not dying. Overclocking is flourishing.

Most of us don't overclock for a pragmatic level of performance increase we can percieve through daily use; we overclock because we can. I didn't spend $600 on a Prometeia to get a 700mhz overclock that I hardly notice. I spent it because I had it, and I love the hobby, not because it was in any way worth it. From a cost/benefit standpoint it was a horrible waste of money. But taking into account my own love of the hobby, it was the same when I had less money and spent my time modding stock heatsinks for my Pentium II. Only then I wasn't "wasting" money, I was "wasting" time.

People love to tweak; to push the envelope of their hardware. We are a breed of folks who can't sleep at night knowing there's another few MHz lurking deep inside our northbridge. The MHz don't matter, but that's not the point. They're there, and we can unlock them. Anybody remember the Star Trek move (III I think it was) where Kirk is climbing a mountain? Spock floats up next to him wearing jet boots and asks "Captain, why are you climbing this?" Kirk answers with "Because it's there." Of course, that answer seemed "highly illogical" to Mister Spock, but people like us understand that mode of thought.

Overclocking is not dying. Overclocking is flourishing.

What's a huge portion of motherboard reviews nowadays. "And now, we'll see how high the IC7's FSB can go..." That's right. "Plenty of tweaks in Softmenu III, from Vcore to FSB to 300mhz..." Not dying. When was the last time a motherboard was reviewed without overclocking options/capacities denoted? I think the ABit BE6 was the first of the overclockers, and that was in 1997. And that was after overclocking had already been around for a while, in the fringes. I overclocked my Pentium 100 to 150mhz in 1996.

Check out how many performance vendors there are online, and sites relating to overclocking. According to yahoo, there are over 700,000 (http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=overclocking&ei=UTF-8). How many foo-foo and ricer add-ons are there for PCs nowadays? Tons. I remember when the first of the Thermaltake Orbs for Slot-1/A processors arrived and it was OMG SO AWESOME@!!!1 Nowadays the cornucopia of custom heatsinks is overwhelming. Water cooling was once a novelty where you'd buy a block, pump, and heater core, but now you can buy kits and even premodded cases. Phase change was a fringe market and now it's (very slowly) expanding.

I know what Ed's premise is, and I agree with him. Overclocking is a case of diminishing returns. Clock speed benefits are logarithmic in that the higher we go, the less they matter, in a perceptible sense. However, overclocking is not dying, the field itself is becoming more and more popular every year.

[craigiz1]

For me, it is a hobbie, and I like to build my own and learn from it. Not to mention, I can't stand to pay the prices that big companies are getting for what I feel is last year's technology, stuff they are trying to clear from the shelve's and telling you "it's the greatest"!
Why shouldn't I buy a processor that is one or two mark's from the top and speed it up to equal the top and save the money?
I think for most of the overclocker's, it is a hobbie too. If you look at some of the sig's in this forum, you see multiple system's. Really, how many people need four or more computer's? They have them must likely for distributive computing and again, they tweak out every last MHz and FSB they can to crunch or fold that much more.
John Doe is surfing the web and writing a letter to grandma. A Celeron or Duron is fine.
Even without overclocking, this group won't die. There are allway's plenty of other problem's to deal with.

JMO

[Super Nintendo]

I don't think overclocking will ever die because people like us want to push our hardware and see what it can do. Also spend the extra money for the watercooling, waterchillers, Prometia and better heatsinks. I love overclocking save money on something you can get by just uping the core, ram, fsb, and multiplier.

[Skiing Squirrel]

I fully and totally agree with Donny about overclocking flourishing and growing. Just in the past 3-4 months, 2 of my friends built computers from scratch because I inspired them. And countless others are now opening up their cases to see what exactly a computer is about. Overclocking will never die-or anytime soon. When something can be tweaked-someone will tweak it. A computer is more than a hobby nowadays-its a lifestyle. Honestly-people can not live without computers anymore, so why not build something that has function for less-more quality-and make it look good and run fast? Now tweaking computers are starting to become something average kids are doing thesedays. It isn't geekish to play computer games and upgrade the computer. I am suprised when I talk to people that tweak computers-and viseversa.

[Luie]

I don't think overclocking will ever die.
It might only die when the processors with no "clock" are made or to the point so fast that the a processor is already at the speed limit (which will not happen IMO) lol.
(remember that scienctific article around the time of the P3 and P4s?)

[JKeefe]

Originally posted by Skiing Squirrel
When something can be tweaked-someone will tweak it.I think that sums up everything right there.

Overclocking is around mostly because it has become a hobby, not a financial neccesity. However, if you stay away from exotic cooling, $300 cases, etc., there is still a lot of money to be saved. There is currently a five hundred dollar difference between a 2.4c and a 3.2c. Now, if I buy that 2.4c and clock it up to 3.2c, I think I'm being rather economical.

[Cowboy Shane]

Originally posted by Skiing Squirrel
I fully and totally agree with Donny about overclocking flourishing and growing. Just in the past 3-4 months, 2 of my friends built computers from scratch because I inspired them. And countless others are now opening up their cases to see what exactly a computer is about. Overclocking will never die-or anytime soon. When something can be tweaked-someone will tweak it. A computer is more than a hobby nowadays-its a lifestyle. Honestly-people can not live without computers anymore, so why not build something that has function for less-more quality-and make it look good and run fast? Now tweaking computers are starting to become something average kids are doing thesedays. It isn't geekish to play computer games and upgrade the computer. I am suprised when I talk to people that tweak computers-and viseversa.
Has overclocking become somewhat synonomous with building your own computer or tweaking it? I agree completely with those who say homebuilt computers are generally better than OEM, and that there is a certain amount of pleasure derived from tweaking a system as a hobby, but I've just noticed that some of the replies are not really addressing the act of increasing the operating frequency of the CPU by manipulating the FSB or multiplier.

[ColtIce]

Originally posted by Cowboy Shane

Has overclocking become somewhat synonomous with building your own computer or tweaking it? I agree completely with those who say homebuilt computers are generally better than OEM, and that there is a certain amount of pleasure derived from tweaking a system as a hobby, but I've just noticed that some of the replies are not really addressing the act of increasing the operating frequency of the CPU by manipulating the FSB or multiplier.
i think they go hand in hand.if you buy hardware with overclocking features sooner or later you will be tempted and thus hooked.there is nothing like your first successful overclock after that its worse than crack.could you ever let something just run at stock?i know i cant ,i would feel like i was cheating myself of all my computer could be

[Cowboy Shane]

Originally posted by ColtIce

i think they go hand in hand.if you buy hardware with overclocking features sooner or later you will be tempted and thus hooked.there is nothing like your first successful overclock after that its worse than crack.could you ever let something just run at stock?i know i cant ,i would feel like i was cheating myself of all my computer could be
Heh, I have to agree with that. The first thing I do when I get any of my systems stable is to start tweaking, and I don't have a non-overclocked computer in the house.

[snvpa]

I'm the same way i helped my grandfather who's about 75 with a problem he had with a computer he was building for charity. As soon as i flipped around the floppy cable, I said let's see what she'll do. I then procedded to push that slot 1 p2? 400 to 500. He started laughing. I think every computer i've touched in the past year I've overclocked or at least tried to.

Back to the question. Overclocking will never die. Though the financial benifits may be declining the interest and hobbyist is flourishing. I'll probably overclock for at least another 10 years whether its benificial or not. The best way to learn about hardware is too push it to its limits and beyond. And also I notice a difference from my stock 1.467 ghz to current 2.5 ghz (200*12.5). I guess there still is financial gain in that considering amd doesn't even make a chip with the pr of mine.

[madcow235]

It may have been true 2yrs ago that the financially overclocking wasnt really worth it but now its $$ is rearing its head again. Look at the difference between a 1700+ and a 3200+ or a 2.4c and a 3.2c there is a huge difference in pricing and performacne of the cheaper chip will beat the higher chip in the long run.

[Breadfan]

My brother recently upgraded from a 1600 pally to a 2500 barton on an NF2 mobo.

He had money, asked me what to upgrade with it, and I told him to get a 2500, nForce2 board, and PC3200 DDR, so we could crank it up to 400fsb.

On his 1600 he already had decent stuff, including a 9700 pro he had gotten a few weeks earlier.

When I had everything together, and we did a fresh reinstall, I asked him later how it was. He said, in a rather unexcited voice, that it was fine, games were a bit smoother, but that he felt it was the HDD holding things back. (He has a 60gb Maxtor D740XL...not even a year old)

So, I think the CPU speeds are getting rather irrelevant. Video cards, they're still relevant. My bro's 9700 is twice as fast as my 8500DV.

Now, I'm not saying he didn't get a FPS increase with his new board/chip combo, but I think the reason he wasn't excited was becuase things still took just as long to load. Loading programs is no longer a case of waiting for them to process, but rather waiting for hte harddrive to extract the data.

Sure games are faster, (which my bro is happy about since he is a bigtime gamer), but all the other stuff isn't that much better. The difference of a new system in basic Windows stuff is just getting smaller and smaller.

Maybe to help Intel out, MS will release "Windows XP -B", or "Windows XP Bloated" It's a 30gb install, with super high resolution uncompressed GUI elements that take atleast 3ghz to open the damn Start menu smoothly. :D

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Breadfan
Maybe to help Intel out, MS will release "Windows XP -B", or "Windows XP Bloated" It's a 30gb install, with super high resolution uncompressed GUI elements that take atleast 3ghz to open the damn Start menu smoothly. :D
lets hope not!

but i wouldn't put it past them!

[funnyperson1]

No, well it should keep me occupied. For me it is still economic. for 110$ i got an nforce2 mobo and a 1700+. My friend was amazed, he was like, why would anyone buy such a slow cpu when you can get the 2000+ for 20$ more. Needless to say, it's now running at 2400+ speeds. I saved around $30-40.

Also the difference between my 1.6ghz tualatin and 2ghz XP, its definately noticeable, from folding to UT2003 my apps are running faster.

[fiji]

when my computer gets old, ill overclock it to play my favorite game


but for right now


i overclock for the enjoyment


i mean really its kinda like hot-rodding a car

lots of the muscle cars, never see the race track yet they have 400+hp


well hell its the same thing with o/c




also hey, we get to look forward in the future

programmers can be lazy as hell and write really sloppy un-optimized code
and then the processors will help :)

[Audioaficionado]

What we as a whole represent as a market share most likly is very low single digit percentage. It's a miricle that we have manufacturers like Abit, Asus, MSI making mobos that will overclock. It wasn't too long ago that your only option was through BIOS hacks and extreme hardware mods to get any overclocking.

I'd say it's not dead but becoming even more popular than ever. The art of extreme overclocking maybe rare as a whole but with the new hareware being made to overclock with ease, lots of new blood is overclocking because it's a lot easier now.

[nikolasmor]

Overclocking will never die in my opinion, simply beause of people like us, I personally do it because of the satisfaction of building my own PC from scratch and knowing more about it than anyone else ever could, Also by building and OC'ing I know the limits of my PC and don't have to worry about pushing it too hard

[CrystalMethod]

I don't think it's going to die. We'll always find someway to tweak and push our systems. Even if the gains are minimal. I think most of us can't live with the status quo, or don't have the means to afford a top of the line system.
i look at overclocking as kind of like building a hot rod.i do it just to see how far i can push it.i also like the problems it causes,allowing me to fiddle with my hardware that if i left at stock i wouldn't have(the problems).i also use overclocking as an excuse to learn all i can about the hardware involved.i am a budget overclocker so i am always a year or two behind the cutting edge,so i'm always trying to "catch up".i'm sure i am not alone.

I'm one of these as well. In the end only those who REALLY want to pull every ounce of performance out of their systems will OC. Those who are addicted to it will find a way. The knowledge gained along the way alone make it worth the effort.

[filip04]

Originally posted by UnseenMenace

Being honest here can you personally tell the difference between a 1800 mhz processor and a 2500 mhz processor in day to day use without benchmarks ?
And computer systems get faster will we reach a point where overclocking is pointless.. or do you overclock, not because you need to go faster, only because you can ?
Why do you overclock and do you think that Overclockers are waiting for extinction ?

being honest, i can't even compare my xp1600 (stock ) to my overclocked xp1700 (2350 mhz)... maybe the processor difference isn't really all that big, but the memory bandwidth makes a big difference... you can't compare a 266 mhz bus to a 410 mhz bus...

back in the day you could've overclocked a 400 mhz to 600 (50%)... now you can overclock a 2.4 to 3.2 (also 50%)

:sn: *TIME WARP* :sn:
its the year 2010, and were all using 10ghz computers... you know that you could easily overclock your 10ghz computer to 12 or 13 ghz... would i do it??? my answer is "WHY NOT?" if you could gain an extra 20-50%, what's stopping you???

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by filip04
...now you can overclock a 2.4 to 3.2 (also 50%)

Sorry, that's 33%, not 50%.

[filip04]

bah, sorry, neverless its still a 800mhz overclock

[Cjwinnit]

I've know of Northwood P4 1.6 chips going to 2.4, which is a 50% overclock. Whilst hard, it's still possible ;)

[madcow235]

Most of the 1700+ overclocks on these boards are 70%+

[altec]

I agree that overclocking will never die. As donny_paycheck said, it is alive and flourishing. The overclocking community is alive and well, and the knowledge that is gained in the overclocking realm is enough to keep people doing it. Sure the tweaks are nice, and it is nice to know that your computer has every Mhz squeezed out of it, but I know that I got started in overclocking simply wanting to have more knowledge of computers. Since then I have gained more knowledge on one subject than I think I have ever had on another subject. I enjoy every aspect of the overclocking community, and I think that most people who are involved in it feel that way. For that reason, overclocking will never die...at it's worst it will slow down, and maintain a small enthusiast base, but it will always be around.

"If it can be tweaked, we are going to tweak it."

[Pixel]

hehe the irony...its so great

[stoopid]

The answer to life and everything (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149942).

[Richard]

Overclocking may not be dying, but it sure isn't like it used to be. It's more of a "look at what I can do" - type of thing. Back in the day, a pretty strong argument could be made for overclocking. I mean a Celeron 300 @ 450 was damn near PIII 500 performance. Even better, a couple of celerons in a BP6!

But now, I'm sad to say, I have hung up my overclocking hat. I just can't see the benefit. I do all the normal stuff: play games, browse the web, run some servers, check my email, yada yada yada. I have a P4 1.8 running linux and a P4 2.4 running Windows. I really can't tell a difference in performance. I have absolutely no desire to purchase a faster CPU. I'm sure the time will come that I'll need to upgrade, but for the time being it's "enough."

[Pixel]

i think its more of a hobby now than a need...its fun for me either way. and also doom3 scares me...i want my computer to run it!

[FlailBoy]

I don't think it's dying. I'm pretty new to this and new to this site. I see new members popping up all the time.

I don't really do anything that demanding on my comp. I just built it from the ground up because I figured I could do a better job than some local pc store. I picked my own components; and there isn't a single piece of software on the thing that I didn't install myself.

I started overclocking because I knew *how* to do it-completely by virtue of hanging around out here, btw. I'm sure many of us know that guy that has to get every upgrade that's out there as soon as it comes out. O/Cing is a cool way to do it for free. I built a decent system and now it's better than it was when I started.

And it's good sport. :cool:

Not kidding about that last bit. It's fun.

[Danne]

well.

Overclocking will never die. :)

This is rather new for me but it is really intresting and fun.

As you guys sa. It is a hobby.

and I think it will be needed to speed up your system in the future as well, unless you have the absolute best hardware.

But even if you have the best hardware you wanna check how fast it can go...

like when buy a new car... :)

[cV]

I can see a difference between a 1.47 and 2.4GHz processor. Someone would have to be blind to not be able to tell. Initally, it may not seem much faster (except in bootup, probably thanks to the higher bus) but when dealing with a lot of applications and having to process a lot of data in parallel, it is like having 1 and 1/3 processors available to you, without any type of multithreading necessary!

And also what needs to be mentioned more is the dramatic increase in the rate of processing distributed computing WUs. This is where I see the largest gain from CPU speed alone. If there is any serious reason to overclock, it is this - a 10% increase in CPU speed will make the application work roughly 5% faster, every 5% faster WU, well, that adds up and helps the cause...

Games? Not very noticeable, more vidcard limited (esp. newer ones) even though say UT2003 does heavily use the CPU. Flight sims see a gain, not much else

HDDs are the real bottleneck and need to be addressed. Any increase in HDD speed will dramatically improve the response time of almost all program-loading and file operations. Most of us know this, but as one said the CPU's baseline speed is fast enough, unlike the celeron 300A at default speed. The 300A was slow enough at stock to actually be a bottleneck to file transfers, while a 1700+ at stock is quite powerful.

Who says gains are logarithmic? They are logarithmic only if programs can't use the extra CPU power or something else is the bottleneck. A 50% overclock is a 50% overclock, period. The gains will eventually be realized - remember when people said 450MHz was enough for everything? Now granted, for some people, that is still true, but I thought we learned from those days....

[badvector]

Overclocking is a hobby. Just like any hobby, it will always have a core of individuals that enjoy it. The size of that core will grow and decline based on interest and interest alone. The interest in the hobby will be based on an individuals desire to continue with it. Factors that will effect individual desires will be time to do it, ease of doing it, cash required to do it as well as hardware capabilities. If companies make it harder to overclock their hardware, some folks will just give up and quit. If companies continue with the recent trend of making items overclocking friendly, the hobby will continue to flourish until technology dictates otherwise.

We should never be disillusioned with the theory that we have hit a technological standstill. I remember when my 200 Meg harddrive was huge and there was no concievable way I would need all of that space. There may be a slow peiod, but I do not think we will ever hit a wall. As 64 bit OS's and programs are released and continue to be bloated with that lovey, touchy, feely look and as new technologies take off, there will always be a need for speed. However, technology may prove to be a double edged sword.

I believe the pc of the future will be nothing like what we are using today. People will slowly integrate the functions of a computer into smart houses/appliances/whatever you want to call them. While older generations may not be comfortable with the computer, younger generations are. As these younger individuals enter the world as "grown ups", their ideas will drive technology. Instead of building a HTPC, televisions will be hi-def touchscreen monitors with their own processors, hard drives and video cards built in. Appliances will be the same. Instead of having multiple computers in a home, you will probably have 1 server supplying everything to dumb terminals as well as networking your appliances to. Can you overclock your server...maybe, can you overclock you TV..who knows, can you overclock you coffee maker..I sure hope so. This is where the hobby of overclocking may begin to diminish. It will all depend on the hardware.

The market I really see taking off today is the modification market. Just like with cars, it's cheaper to make it look faster than it really is. Plus, people are tired of looking at that beige box. They want something that blends in or looks flashy.

[PhoenixMDM]

I first stumbled onto this site about two years ago, and wanted to find out what it was all about. At the time, I was using a P1 233, and my spare box was a 486. I read for a week about multipliers and FSB and all those other options, and eventually brought my 233 up to 366, which let me play many more games than I could before. So it was getting the extra speed to play games that hooked me.

Now, overclocking is just hotrodding to me. It's also saving money in the long run, but that's sorta a stretch. I built my computer with upgrading in mind the whole way, and this system should be good with all the games for the next few years without even having to upgrade. But, when I do need to, I can just swap out components to upgrade, far cheaper than buying a brand new comp. Also, a good watercooling system means you'll never have to buy a heatsink again, and your CPU will be more stable at the lower temps, and you can get more than you paid for by upping those multipliers.

Overclocking isn't dead. If you're smart, it can still save you a lot of money, and you can wind up with a cooling system good for the next 20 years!

[Nomjr]

I will overclock until Intel/AMD makes it so I can't:rolleyes: (hope this never happens)

[Tecumseh]

Overclocking IS dying...already on the deathbed. The days
when you can get a monster overclock are over no matter
what cooling method or system you use. It's lost its "cool"
factor as well. Who cares? Maybe just the very few of us
who are active in this forum and others like it on other sites.
This is NOT enough to sustain an industry. Just ask the
companies selling water-cooling and high-end air-cooling
products how business is doing. The answer is not pretty.

Donny said,"Overclocking is not dying. Overclocking is flourishing."
Dude, I say you are not getting out enough. The business
model is just not there. The excitement is just not there.
Overclocking has become as exciting as overclocking a
typewriter.....or putting cheese-ball "performance" parts
on a Honda. Quoting Col. Jack O'Neill: For crying out loud!

[Tekime]

There is a huge difference in performance when my comp is running at stock. Overclocking is still kicking, and I don't see it dying anytime soon. It's over-commercialized and you might see a lot of the companies trying to milk the glitz of o/c and modding crowds die off, but that's okay.

[badvector]

Originally posted by Tecumseh
The days when you can get a monster overclock are over no matter what cooling method or system you use. It's lost its "cool"
factor as well.

I would both agree and disagree with this. In AMD's case, except for the golden child 1700's and semi-golden 2100's this seems to be true. However, Intels current crop of processors seems to be doing quite well at stock or very little over stock voltages.


Originally posted by Tecumseh
Who cares? Maybe just the very few of us
who are active in this forum and others like it on other sites.
This is NOT enough to sustain an industry. Just ask the
companies selling water-cooling and high-end air-cooling
products how business is doing. The answer is not pretty

We have never been large enough to sustain an industry. We benefit from all the Joe Sixpacks of the world. We benefit because of their demand for higher performance hardware. That's why there isn't a plethora of processor/video card/mobo/memory makers out there. There are really only few manufacturers with lots of product re-labeling going on. Water and high end cooloing is suffering because Joe Sixpack doesn't need it...yet. Most of our systems are at speeds that Joe doesn't even know exist. If something new doesn't come out of the cooling world and AMD/Intel don't get the heat under control, Joe is going to get to meet Mr. Water.

Originally posted by Tecumseh
The excitement is just not there.
Overclocking has become as exciting as overclocking a
typewriter.....or putting cheese-ball "performance" parts
on a Honda.

The excitement isn't there for you anymore. I agree with Donny's comment about overclocking flourishing because it has become somewhat simple over the last 2 years. Many newbs (no negative intent meant by this) are happy to get into the bios, push up the FSB and call it an overclock. In their opinion, that is overclocking. They have no desire to use high end cooling or do volt mods. However, some of these folks will continue to pursue the hobby. They will read everything they can get their hands on. They will become masters of the art. The ease of overclocking has brought many new folks into our fold (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=21) . Some will leave, some will stay. The fact that some will stay is what will help to keep the hobby here.

[cV]

I agree with both Tekime and Badvector.

As long as manufacturers keep pushing the technological envelope, overclocking will flourish.

Remember the "400MHz celeron is enough for everything" days, come on folks. The same was said about the 486 and the Pentium. We don't know what we can do with all this horsepower (except fold) for now, but sooner or later, we will need it.

It's not going to stop. With M$'s help, it's even accelerating... :D

[Tecumseh]

And what do you think will happen when Intel finally realizes
that it doesn't need to compete with AMD? AMD is
its own worst enemy and eventually will exit the CPU business
if IBM doesn't buy the company first. :eek:

Also CPUs are essentially "overclocked" from the factory
via speed bin testing. This leaves too little room for further
overclocking.

We are looking at an end of an era. This is like cars were
back in the 60's and 70's. Back then our dads or their buddies
could bolt on a few engine parts and get more horsepower
than was safe. Look under the hood of a car today. Can
anyone, including the mechanics, even know what all that
crap is? Except some little part dies and costs you $250 to
get back on the road. :( ....PCs are evolving in that direction.
Soon, the vast majority of PCs will be factor sealed and even
if they are not, it will be too hard to mess with them.

For those of you who know....it will be harder than putting
a mod chip on a Playstation. :eek:

Sadly, even the hobby aspect of PCs will soon enough die. :(

[Richard]

True enough. The days of big cases with lots of whirring fans are numbered. Time marches on, and the market will dictate what we get. Cost of manufacture and return on investment is leading us toward smaller and less configurable PCs. At some point we'll find "enthusiast" motherboards seeing premiums that price themselves out of the reach of most buyers. If nothing else it will be a matter of prudence. "Why spend three times as much to overclock"? Not to mention that, "Hey I want a smaller computer that can 'do-it-all.'" And not much longer after that board manufacturers will simply discontinue such non-lucrative products.

I don't see this happening next year, but the signs are on the wall. With DRM, DMCA, RIAA, and Microsoft's influence, we're also going to see changes in hardware/software that dictate what can and can't be fiddled with. Overclockers and tweakers are going to find themselves getting left by the wayside as manufacturers focus on areas other than performance.

It's not just overclocking, but the way we see and use computers in general is headed for a big change.

[Tecumseh]

Yes, it starts as SFF (Small Form Factor) and ends with
CFF (Closed Form Factor) which the marketing drones
will call Convenient Form Factor. :)

[Mark Larson]

Originally posted by JKeefe
There is currently a five hundred dollar difference between a 2.4c and a 3.2c. Now, if I buy that 2.4c and clock it up to 3.2c, I think I'm being rather economical.
But are you really saving money when you could've bought a 2Ghz Celeron and overclocked it to 2.5Ghz? What defines money saved?

[cV]

I don't think there's a $500 difference between a 2 and 2.5GHz celeron. Also, the lower bus, cache, etc..

Money saved is money saved, period. Some things are not worth spending money on in the first place.

[-=Mr_B=-]

Um, Money saved? I am currently waiting for a New rig, and thats probobly all for the best, this PC have done a good time, keeping me playing both GTA 3 and Mechwarriior 4 in different forms, and thats even without the use of a proper GFX. No, i dont think, correction, i KNOW i would not been able to if i had not overclocked it, its just a old Intel Celeron 800, it was nothing i selected myself, it was a gift from my uncle, so when it said "fujitsu-siemens" on the darn thing, what should i say? "sorry, take your X-Mas gift and shuve it!" ? Offcourse not, for the first few years it ran everything i got my hands on, with just 128Mb ram. Later i had to atleast start thinking about doing something, and by luck a friend upgraded, and sold a few things, on the way i made a proffit, and sacrefaced the profit for the 256Mb memorie he also had "left over" and so i made another few years, Time finaly cought up to me, and my new games dident like when i swapped OS, offcourse, i could revert to my old os, or do a dual boot config.. but why? i overclocked, as i did with the last PC i had b4 this one... In the end, it turns out i had this Celeron 800 for what? 5 years now? its never been a big inprove ment, and offcourse i have other PC's to keep the hobbie part of overclocking alive, im still working on a Dual 133Mhz rig, trying to make it run dual 266MMX or more, even as Asus says that aint possible.. i proven em vrong b4, anyone got a PL-Pro socket so i can do it again *- )

Overclocking wont "die" on its own, it might take a turn for the worse, where you have to hardware mod your CFF to get the voltage, and then software lift the speed after boot, but if we are in for it as a hobbie, then we will evolve, and embrace that to.

Humankind is known for its trademark, destucktion, but think about it, we survived the destruction to, should not that be the trademark?
B!

[BGPatterson]

I overclock because i know i can make the processor run at the speed of a more expensive one for the [lesser]cost of the slower one. Example: 1700 at 2.1 on my a7v8x. A processor that will have a real mhz of 2100 would cost a lot more!, and i enjoy doing this, anyway.

[Pinky]

Okay, I couldn't pass this up (good thread and a lot of good points made). I've been overclocking for a while now, and have overclocked both Intel and AMD systems, setup raid arrays, custom built machines, etc etc... so I have some experience to pull from. I've also been focusing much of my attentions to the patterns I see in overclocking and the overclocking community...

Is overclocking dying as a hobby? NO.

There will always be geeks like us who want to make thier PC faster and have the compulsion to play around with those BIOS settings and such :p

Is overclocking dying as a means of saving money? YES.

The amount of money spent on cooling or "quality components" needed to get a good overclocking almost equals the purchase of the faster speed component.

Is overclocking dying as a means of gaining processing power? NO.

You can get some decent (but not typically extraordinary) clock speed increases, but the real advantage has been gained in bus/bandwidth overclocking, which in some cases can see actual benefits of 30+% in total PC performance. This has been aided by faster chipsets and RAM. The increase of bandwidth gains through chipset increases has far surpassed most of the mhz increases by processor manufacturers.

[texasfit]

No hands but my own has or will touch any of my PC's now or in the future. My own personal enjoyment and self satisfaction of building and overclocking just won't allow it.

[heilel]

Up until last week sometime, I was not overclocking, although quite interested in the idea.
Since then I've overclocked my PC.

Why?, well yeah, to make it go faster, but it isn't really that necessary, it's mostly because it's fun to play around with my PC and see what it can do/take.

[cV]

As far as CPUs and memory go, anyone who folds for 32 has a reason to. ;)

And video cards, well, ocing this 9700 pro really helps on large maps that leave little to cull and thus require a lot of core/memory bandwidth.

[Audioaficionado]

I'm looking a building a dual Xeon workstation/playstation and it's overclocking features are paramount for me. The IWill DPI533-SATA is looking pretty good so far. I won't build anything except maybe a mission critical server that won't be overclocked. Gaming and overclocking are doing a lot to push the technology envelope out.

[Amd_Fanatic]

I have to say that Overclocking will not die IMHO. Learning and figuring out how to get the most for the least in terms of bang for the buck is the lure and the knowledged gained in the process just a added benefit.

Now to the normal user computer speeds are getting so fast that the difference is not as noticeable as years gone by... The lure to to get something for nothing will never die....