Wobbly monitor now after cooling setup

[Vampiregabe]

You all know the 60hz shuffle your computer screen does at a low res right. Well I am having that problem all the way up to 85hz and the problem (I believe) is the emi my eheim is causing.

The pump/resivor/radiator are all mounted outside and ontop the case. Video/nb/cpu cooled. Temps are fine at the speeds I am running at (166*13.5).

But now my monitor wobbles. Bad.

At 60hz it is almost like sitting through a earthquake.
At 70hz slightly better.
At 72hz no different.
At 85hz bearable, only noticable on the outer edge of the screen.

Case is 5 feet away from monitor and under a wooden table.

Any ideas on solving this. I am going batcrap looking at this.

[Illah]

Encase the pump in something metal (foil is probably too weak). The EMF from the pump is messing with the CRT. Either that or move it even farther away.

--Illah

[Enyo]

5 ft!! ive got a hydor it only causes my moniter to wobble at 1ft away.

i don't know if its your pump.. check your connections.. (again :P) and reseat the graphics card (again.. ?) and check for any strong magents or electromagnets (fans..) near your moniter.

[Enyo]

oh and im running at 60hz (1200x1046)

[rmonster]

Originally posted by Vampiregabe
You all know the 60hz shuffle your computer screen does at a low res right. Well I am having that problem all the way up to 85hz and the problem (I believe) is the emi my eheim is causing.

The pump/resivor/radiator are all mounted outside and ontop the case. Video/nb/cpu cooled. Temps are fine at the speeds I am running at (166*13.5).

But now my monitor wobbles. Bad.

At 60hz it is almost like sitting through a earthquake.
At 70hz slightly better.
At 72hz no different.
At 85hz bearable, only noticable on the outer edge of the screen.

Case is 5 feet away from monitor and under a wooden table.

Any ideas on solving this. I am going batcrap looking at this.

Dunno if this would help or not, but for $5 might be worth a try: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F002%5F009%5F000&product%5Fid=273%2D105

It's a snap-together choke you can put on your monitor cable, and though your monitor most likely already has one, adding another might do the trick.

[Enyo]

oh these chokes what do that actualy do?

[rmonster]

It's a piece of ferrite-material (magnetized) shaped like a doughnut. Depending upon application, it either snaps around or has the wires wrapped around it that you are trying to keep free of electromagnetic interference.

Basically, the magnetic field of the choke prevents interference (within reasonable limits) from making it down the line you're trying to protect. It's passive (requires no outside power source) and cheap to try, but may or may not solve the problem.

[camel]

Wow 5' thats crazy, my ehiem1250 is about 2' with no side panel.
Someone else was asking about this a few weeks ago, so for $hits and giggles I pushed my case as close as possible to try and get a wobble. I eneded up with the pump 10 1/2" from the right side of the monitor, no wobble.
you sure its the pump?

<edit>
My monitor is a Phillips 109b @ 85hz

[Vampiregabe]

Pretty sure it is the pump. When I unplug it, the wobble goes away. I only trust this for about a minute before plugging it back in.

I will try more emi line blockers, we have a bunch of old monitors here at work.

I imagine it is the pump motor inducing the wobble into the aluminum case, which is traveling to the brass pegs the mb is attached to on the case.

Stay tuned...

[AMDninjaboy]

Maybe you have a bad pump dude. I used to have my eheim 1250 sitting in my fishtank res right beside my monitor and it didnt interfere at all. Maybe check into RMA'n it if its still inder warranty or try a different pump or something.

[Giblet Plus!]

My danner does that when it's closer than 3'. :D

What pump is this?

[thorilan]

i bet its not emi thats causing it

its probly the wireing in your house and the pump is doing the same thing that a hair dryer can do to a tv when on.

[Vampiregabe]

OK. I got 2 of those magnet thingies and put them on. It is better, I can use 75hz but anything below that makes me want to rip my eyeballs out.

The pump is an eheim 1046. It is 2 weeks old and works flawlessly.

thorilan you bring up a good issue. I have not had any other problems with wobbles with any other device in my apt though.

[Since87]

This is strange. The 1046 is a tiny pump.

Do you have the power cord for the pump running very close to, and in parallel with, the video cable?

Does all your equipment (PC, monitor, pump) have good earth grounds through properly wired wall outlets?

BTW, I wouldn't expect the EMI ferrites to do much of anything to affect the low frequency signals from the pump.

[rmonster]

Good points, Since87, those all sound like good things to check.

Not trying to nitpick or anything, why don't you think a magnetic choke would filter out 60 hz emi? That's what it's designed to do, iirc. My misgivings regarding the effectiveness of an additional choke were related to the signal strength, not the frequency.

Again, I'm just asking why, I could be incorrect in my thinking :)

[Since87]

Originally posted by rmonster
Not trying to nitpick or anything, why don't you think a magnetic choke would filter out 60 hz emi? That's what it's designed to do, iirc. My misgivings regarding the effectiveness of an additional choke were related to the signal strength, not the frequency.

Here's an impedance graph for a snap on ferrite from page 104 of the Fair-Rite catalog. (http://www.fair-rite.com/fr_catalog-14thed_rev3.pdf)

http://uffish-thought.net/wc-gifs/ferrite.gif

The graph shows the impedance of the core between 10^6 Hz and 10^9 Hz. (1 MHz to 10 GHz) The impedance is only about 15 Ohms at 1 MHz and will be much much lower than that at 60 Hz. These cores are generally used for blocking signals in the range of frequencies between 10 MHz and 1GHz.

It would take a core with a much larger ID, with the video cable wound through it several times, to have much impact at 60 Hz.

[rmonster]

Thanks for the reference, Since87. There's a good reason for using tact when relying upon memory when questioning, especially when one is a bit "long in the tooth" as I am.

Thanks for the info, you were and are correct, there's a big difference between 60 hz and 60mhz, apparently i didn't "rc" :D

[Ravsitar]

As mentioned above it might be the wireing in the room. Is the pump hooked into the powersupply or do you have a seperate electrical plug for it. If you can run an extension cord for the pump to another outlet that you know is on a different breaker. In otherwords, an outlet that's not in the same room.

[thorilan]

that may work but older wiring is basicaly like a giant antentea when not properly ground and unless there has been some remodeling a diferent breaker may not help.
the magnets in the pump themselves arnt the problem most likely but when you combine all the possible little effects of wiring ect ect instead of being cumulitive they are multiplicitive(hopes that came out right)

[Vampiregabe]

LOL well concidering the lease on my apt, I don't think the wiring is going to change in the near future.

Would a lcd panel correct this since they don't experience the same flicker that crt monitors suffer from?

May have to get the 19" I have been eyeing.:cool:


Thanks for the help guys/gals!

[Since87]

Originally posted by Vampiregabe
Would a lcd panel correct this since they don't experience the same flicker that crt monitors suffer from?


Yes, it's extremely unlikely an LCD would be affected by the pump.

[camel]

Would be worth trying to get that pump plugged into another circuit via an extension cord to see if it goes away.
But a 19" LCD sounds fun too ;)

[Enyo]

yay great idea! :P .. a 19" lcd would be cool!.. but unless youve got cash to burn...(525$ cheapest 19" lcd at pricewatch)

the best idea problably is to just get extension cables for the moniter keyboard mouse etc. then just move the case further away,

to test if this soluition would work see if the wobbeling gets any better when moving the moniter further away from the computer case.. or if any movement of the moniter will improve the wobbeling it may be faulty wireing in the wall.. faulty plugs.. anything!.

but if moving the moniter doesn't fix anything.. look for the bigest bad ass choke you can find.. ;)

[thorilan]

you can also try using a power system backup and line conditioner to filter the power line noise from the wiring

[rmonster]

Originally posted by thorilan
you can also try using a power system backup and line conditioner to filter the power line noise from the wiring

Or a variac/line conditioner combo like I'm using (on the supply line for the monitors and cpu, external water rig running from same outlet). Running a 9800P with dual display and have used it with both a Danner MD7 and MD3 (current pump) less than two feet away, np.

[Yuriman]

I had realy bad problems with my viaaqua and the wobble, so I used a bit of tin foil, heavy duty, and wraped it loosly. No wobbly.

[OverclockNStein]

Have you tried having your monitor and water pump pluged into 2 different outlets?

[Paxmax]

Monster: Those ferrite chokes aren't "magnetic" or "magnetized". They are chunks of iron powder and such, they simply conduct lower frequency magnetic force. They will dampen high frequency signals(up to a point).

Yuriman: Way cool it worked with foil !!! I cannot comprehend or explain why, but, WAY COOL! :)

Well, it doesn't cost much to test... so go for it vampiregabe !

Don't use to much chokes on the monitor cord.... you will likely dampen the monitor signal...