2100+ B Core VS. 2500+

[CamH]

Okay, guys. I'm ordering the parts to build some people computers tommorrow, and I think I'm gonna upgrade my computer with a new processor.

I'm going to be overclocking. I just can't decide between a 2500+ barton and a 2100+ b core. Which will do better? I've heard that they're both beasts, but I can't decide.

[ogboot]

this is my personal opinion, but i would prob go with the barton core. i have a 2500+ that runs great i am nowhere near it's limit yet, i think that the thoroughbred is peaking towards it's max capacity whereas the barton core may be engineered to be pushed harder being the next generation of core.

[climbski]

A good stepping 1700 dlt3c will beat the 2500 9 times out of 10 in overall MHZ and match generally in benchmarks. As will a good 2100 aiuhb. If you want to go Barton go 2800 and above to get a clear advantage.

[CamH]

Either one would be overclocked, however. Does the lower cache size hurt the tbreds that much?

[climbski]

About 100MHZ worth depends on the benchmark. But a good one (notice the caveat) can get about 100+ mhz more total OC. Unless you know what to look for and hanpick it the only place I know that guarantees the stepping is excaliberpc.com.

[c627627]

Well, to answer your question, expect 2.3 from 2100+ if you're lucky.
(Need to list that heatsink in the sig, man. ; also, describing ram as "assorted" is less helpful than saying pc xxxx ram)

Barton may do a little better but it may come down to your other system specs as far as limitations go.

:D hehehe, climbski again with his :bday: "Don't be a pu$$y, spend another $100 on the 2800+" :bday:

lol :beer:

[CamH]

I'm switching to phase change and upgrading to some high end mushkin memory soon.

[c627627]

Best is twinmos/ch-5 winbond pc3200
http://www.memoryx.net/gn256pc3200.html
It will allow you to go to 220 FSB which is more important than MHz.

[CamH]

Oh, I forgot to mention: Currently, the computer is inside of a refridgerator, and it will be staying that way. CPU temp is fairly low (as far as Palominos go) 40C (it was mid 60's on plain ol' air).

[ogboot]

i decided to look into liquid cooling about 2 weeks ago when the AC went out in my apt and my room temp was 90 during the day. think i will go with a swiftech system

[Tyranos]

Well, I've found that many 2100+'s need a lot of vcore to overclock that high. The temperatures aren't usually as hot as you think though. I am at 1.93vcore with an slk800u and underload it only reaches about 42c. The only drawback to the correct stepping 2100+ is that since it sometimes needs such a high voltage, you will quickly find out of your PSU isn't up to the task.

[c627627]

2100+ AIUHB 0248 MPMW
256MB Crucial PC2100 + 2x 256MB Kingston (Hynix chip) PC2100 @ 6 3 3 2
[152] FSB x 15 = 2280 MHz @ 1.8 Vcore with memory frequency at 100% [152] @ 2.77 Vdimm
37(min) C to 46(max) C Winter ; 42(min) C to 50(max) C Summer
Epox 8RDA+
Thermalright SK-7 with variable speed 80x25mm YS-Tech FD1281259B-2F
BFG GeForce4 Ti4200 8X 128MB; Antec SX-835II case ; 350W Antec SmartPower SL350

[brennan77]

I just got a 2100 from newegg. I could get halfway through boot with 1.8v at 2310. I didn't want to feed any more voltage because of cooling issues right now. But things look promising. Still, that's a big jump in voltage for a CPU that takes 1.6 stock.

[Gautam]

For phase change, the 2500+ is pretty much a hands-down winner. You'll make around 2.8ghz with either, and the Barton's cache will give you a healthy boost.

[ROMAD]

OK, I've got one for you guys. I have the machine listed in my sig and I've been running that way since February. Here's my chip info:

XP2100+ AIUHB 0248MPMW

I want to replace the XP 1700+ in my burner with the XP2100+ and then buy a new Barton 2500+ for my main rig. Can this Barton be expected to reach anywhere near the 2.4+GHz I am getting right now with my 2100+?

If so, which steppings are the best? If not, what speed Barton should I be looking at?

Thx!

[c627627]

My vote is you will not see significant improvements, Romad.

But 3 q 4 u:

1. Why 185 x 13, why not higher FSB with lower multiplier.

2. 1.95 V? That's a bit high for every day use, isn't it?

3. Is your memory frequency Auto or 100%?

_____________________
2100+ AIUHB 0248 MPMW
256MB Crucial PC2100 + 2x 256MB Kingston (Hynix chip) PC2100 @ 6 3 3 2
[152] FSB x 15 = 2280 MHz @ 1.8 Vcore with memory frequency at 100% [152] @ 2.77 Vdimm
37(min) C to 46(max) C Winter ; 42(min) C to 50(max) C Summer
Epox 8RDA+
Thermalright SK-7 with variable speed 80x25mm YS-Tech FD1281259B-2F
BFG GeForce4 Ti4200 8X 128MB; Antec SX-835II case ; 350W Antec SmartPower SL350

[ROMAD]

Well, my problem is, the mobo won't support much higher. I've pulled as high as 187 that's 99% stable, but some things did bomb. Memory is set to 100% and I have tried running at 120% off of a 166MHz FSB and that works fine, but I wanted higher FSB speed because of the bottleneck there. As for the voltage, I've been running that since February without a problem. I usually have temps between 45-53 and never any higher, so I don't see it being too big of an issue. So, the memory will do 200+, I know that, but the mobo (un-modded) will not go beyond a somewhat stable 187MHz FSB. If I even go to 188, I start having problems.

[Tyranos]

Originally posted by c627627
2100+ AIUHB 0248 MPMW
256MB Crucial PC2100 + 2x 256MB Kingston (Hynix chip) PC2100 @ 6 3 3 2
[152] FSB x 15 = 2280 MHz @ 1.8 Vcore with memory frequency at 100% [152] @ 2.77 Vdimm
37(min) C to 46(max) C Winter ; 42(min) C to 50(max) C Summer
Epox 8RDA+
Thermalright SK-7 with variable speed 80x25mm YS-Tech FD1281259B-2F
BFG GeForce4 Ti4200 8X 128MB; Antec SX-835II case ; 350W Antec SmartPower SL350

Higher than that :p

[c627627]

Romad, see my sig above, same mobo.

How about if you set Memory to Auto. I can do 208 FSB x 11 Prime95 24 hour stable with PC2100 on Auto.

Did you follow directions:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_alumina_instructions.htm
http://www.arcticsilver.com/ceramique_instructions.htm

What brand of power supply?

EDIT: Memory timings + Vdimm?

[c627627]

Tyranos raises a valid point.
If I can do 208 x 11 on PC2100 set to Auto.

Does that mean that Auto Mem Freq. isolates the memory to the point that 208 is my max FSB even if I put PC3200 in??

[ROMAD]

OK, I did some checking and it is indeed set to "Auto". Here are all the settings starting at the top of that page thru the memory timings:

Expert
Default
185
Optimal
Auto
Expert
6
3
3
2.0

I have relaxed the memory timings and still nothing above 187 is even remotely stable. I am using an Enermax 450W power supply, but don't really see it being a problem. I cannot even UNDER-clock the processor at a 200FSB, and I would believe the CPU would pull more power than the chipset (correct me if I'm wrong). The chipset is actively cooled with a 50mm fan and doesn't get much more than warm to the touch, if that.

Also, I have run the FSB at 166 and set memory to 120% and had 0 problems, but of course the FSB is the bottleneck and running memory beyond the speed of the FSB is a waste of time.

However, if someone has some settings they would like me to try or anything else to check, please let me know. While I am very experienced at overclocking, I don't profess to know everything.

[RedDawg41]

2100+ AIUHB 0248 MPMW (183x13.5) 2470MHz
FIC AN19-E (KT400), 512mb OCZ PC2700 2-2-2-5-1T,
2x60Gb HD, Raid 0, 1x40Gb WD (winxp) 1x60GB WD (proggys)
1xDVD-ROM, 1XCD-RW (TDK), vcore @1.875, vdimm @2.70, Geforce4 TI4400 (LeadTek)... HS AX-7 w/Tornado (84CFM)
(antec SL-450 watts) Antec Case w/4 highoutput 80mm fans (50cfm)
Ain't nothing wrong with the xp2100, just got to get the Tbred B versions and have a reliable pwr supply and a good mem stick...
This is rig #1, my 2nd rig is in the sig. Looking around the net, doesn't seem to be many good xp2100 left what will get you in the upper 2.4-2.5GHz range... you may just consider a Barton 2500 which has been quite a cache lately... read up on the stepping and dates that these guys have been getting good results from. you may find a diamond somewhere out there. :)

[c627627]

ROMAD, what happens at 100% Memory Frequency?

RedDawg41, that VIA KT400 mobo has only the /5 divider & no PCI lock so 19x-2xx FSB is not even an option for it.

[RedDawg41]

c-man,

I was responding to the original posting of deciding between the xp2100 or the xp2500... to wit, my xp2100 does close to 2.5 on a kt400 mobo, none the less, getting an xp2100 right now from any i-net stores might not be as easy as it once was, therefore helping Camh to decide on which xp would be for him to look at. Aslo by looking at CamH sig, he's got an Epox 8K3A+ (KT333) mobo (with 1/5 divider), which is why I included my 1st rigs profile and which may or may not hinder his OC experience with the xp cpu (2100 or 2500?). Of course, my preference of mobo's would be the nforce2 (abit, asus, or any others out there that have the pci/agp lock) which one would buy and assures him with a better success of oc'ing ones cpu.

[c627627]

I remember RedDawg41 from other threads now, he knows his stuff.

Help me
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222647

[RedDawg41]

Thank you sir.
C u @ ur other post.

[ROMAD]

Originally posted by c627627
ROMAD, what happens at 100% Memory Frequency?

Good question, let's find out...

After playing with some settings, I guess I wasn't very thorough. If I set FSB to 166 and memory to 120%, I can run fine (that's what I'm using now). However, if I run at 200 FSB and 83% memory, that works too. Long story short, I can run EITHER 200MHz FSB OR 200MHz memory, but not both. I ran a couple of games of WarCraft III under the 200MHz FSB/166MHz memory settings. Granted, it's not scientific, but when I run 200/200, I immediately start getting registry errors and video corruption. Sooo... it's really making me wonder about my power supply. Any tips on what to check? Next question is, what does everyone recommend in a ~500W "good" & cheap power supply??? :(

Sorry, to answer your original question, I tried 100% memory, but that had the same effect as "Auto". I have been routinely running VDIMM at 2.77v. I tried 2.90, but that didn't seem to make any difference. Going lower, depending on settings, causes it to hang on boot.

[CamH]

Thanks for the help, guys! I just ordered the 2500+ and NF7. :)

[c627627]

Power Supplies:
Antec, Fortron (Sparkle), Sirtec (Enlight, Vantec, Thermaltake), or more expensive Herolchi, PC Power and Cooling, or not as good but not dangerous HEC, TTGI.

Cheapest is $32 350W Fortron that's really like 440W+ power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/app/Viewproduct.asp?DEPA=1&submit=manufactory&catalog=58&manufactory=1919&description=&srchFor=FSP350-60BN

People usually recommend Antec or Fortron.

[ROMAD]

I guess I'm just wondering if everyone is in agreement that it looks like my PSU is the problem? I really can't see why else it would act this way.

[c627627]

Your PSU is not in your sig.

[Cisco Kid]

Originally posted by CamH
Either one would be overclocked, however. Does the lower cache size hurt the tbreds that much?

yes a DLT3C at 2.4 = a 2500 at 2.2-2.3, I had a JIUHB DLT3C 0310, now I have a Barton, I am in process of burning it in good, so far the benches have been a bit better on the Barton, I assume from the cache advantage but other variables could also be the cause. Now that I have the Barton I would say if you have a good 1700 DLT3C I would not upgrade, I would wait and get a 2800 when prices drop. Both chips are very close, however for video encoding and gaming the Barton has an edge.

Daily use you would not see much diff imho

Cisco KId