Lapping in regards to thermal grease

AMD_Me · Aug 8, 2003

I have an SLK-900 and a P4 2.4C (COSTA RICA!) @3.526GHz 1.55v. Both Heatsink and proc are lapped to a mirror finish (can read in reflection). One drop of water on the heatsink withh hold the proc to it. Now my question:

Should I go:

Greaseless
PCM+
AS3
Ceramique

If I should use a grease, I suppose it would be the PCM because of its viscosity (or lack thereof

)

Also, How should I apply the grease when it is lapped this flat?

I.M.O.G. · Aug 8, 2003

You will definetly want to use grease. Grease is meant to fill microscopic peaks and valleys that cannot be removed by lapping; lapping is meant to remove surface imperfections like milling marks, scratches, and dents.

PCM is the worst performing thermal interface material. If you worked that hard getting your base flat, you will not want to use it.

The choice between AS3 and Ceramique is yours to make. Their performance is more or less indistinguishable from one another. Here is what the big man behind the scenes at AS.com says:

Our New Ceramique compound and Arctic Silver 3 are very close in performance.
Which one is better in a particular application will depend on the surface
finishes, the gap area, the minimum possible bond line thickness, and the
pressure on the compound.

The difference in any case will be slight.

Nevin

You will want to follow the instructions on www.arcticsilver.com still, using a very small amount of grease that covers the entire surface area. The rules are the same even with a good lapping job.

The real trick to getting the best temps possible hides not in which thermal paste you choose, but in how good of a mounting you achieve. Several trial mountings and a comparison of temperatures will help you to be confident in your mounting.

Welcome to the forums!

CGR · Aug 9, 2003

whatever you choose since you ahve lapped both to a shine, you will need a very thin layer of grease. The smoother the surfaces are the thiner the amount you shoudl use. Goto arctic silvers site and follow their directions for applying their product. It makes a world of difference.

This is only if you use AS though. Other brands may have different applications methods.

Jah Warrior · Aug 9, 2003

If you can find it use Shin Etsu paste, its blows AS3 and Ceramique out of the water. Worth noting that if you do go with AS then Ceramique is a safer option, its not electrically conductive you see.

AMD_Me · Aug 9, 2003

is the shin etsu G751?

I.M.O.G. · Aug 12, 2003

Jah Warrior said:
If you can find it use Shin Etsu paste, its blows AS3 and Ceramique out of the water. Worth noting that if you do go with AS then Ceramique is a safer option, its not electrically conductive you see.

A couple things to note:

1) Shin Etsu does not blow other pastes out of the water. Let's be real here. If it does in your opinion, please include linkage as to why one would think that. Here is why I say it isn't:

http://www.overclockers.com/articles742/

2) AS3 and ceramique are not conductive:

From www.arcticsilver.com
Not electrically conductive.
Arctic Silver 3 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity. It is only electrically conductive in a thin layer under extreme compression.
(While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 3 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)

From www.arcticsilver.com

Electrical Insulator.
Ceramique does not contain any metal or other electrically conductive materials. It is a pure electrical insulator, neither electrically conductive nor capacitive.

Electrical conductance is kind of funny if I understand it correctly. Almost every substance can conduct electricity - it depends how much energy is being passed through the substance and over what distance. A substance is referred to as a conductor if it has considerable conductance, and it is referred to as an insulator if it has very minimal conductance. So no matter which paste you buy, you really don't want to smear them over your traces. And secondly, you should not base your decision on which paste to buy on the negligible difference of electrical conductance.

TheMatrixHasYou · Aug 12, 2003

Umm... IMOG, Nanotherm PCM+ is the best thermal material out there, period. No idea why you'd think it's the worst. AMD_Me, you should definitely go with the Nanotherm.

I.M.O.G. · Aug 12, 2003

TheMatrixHasYou said:
Umm... IMOG, Nanotherm PCM+ is the best thermal material out there, period. No idea why you'd think it's the worst. AMD_Me, you should definitely go with the Nanotherm.

Who mentioned Nanotherm PCM+? Who called anything the worst?

Perhaps you misunderstood me and thought I was being sarcastic, but I wasn't - I was just saying that the shin-etsu paste does not blow other pastes out of the water.

I honestly am not familiar with the nanotherm product at all, so if you had a link or multiple links to reviews (preferably reputable reviews), I would really appreciate them.

EDIT: So you don't have to do my foot work for me, I ran around and looked up something real quick. Here is what I found:

http://www.overclockers.com/articles792/

Arctic Silver has been a longtime favorite among many, simply because they were the first company to release a competitive paste – one which was actually well suited to the task of transferring heat. Nanotherm is another big name these days, and lots of people are talking about PCM+, their upcoming metal-free product. But as I said, all of these products still get very similar results. A degree or two at most is all you can hope for in moving from one brand to another.

There is more information that can be found through these links for those interested:

http://www.gamingin3d.com/articles/paste3/main.shtml

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/thermalpasteshootout.php

Arctic Silver III has proven itself to me by cooling my cpu better than any other paste. The new Nanotherm paste showed only a slight noticable change over it's older paste. Arctic Silver 3 Premium Silver Thermal Compound has a suggested retail in the U.S. of $7.95 for a 3-gram tube (A little more than 1cc) or $12.95 for a 6 gram tube (A little more than 2cc.) Arctic Silver 3 will be available at Arctic Silver dealers on January 25th.

Nanotherm Ice and Blue are now packed with 50% more Nanotherm per tube. They have increased the volume of compound from 1.0 cc (ml) per tube to a whopping 1.5 cc at a net weight of 2.0 grams. They have also reduced the MSRP from $5.95 to $4.95 per tube! Good deal!

metra · Aug 12, 2003

There was a pretty long thread on Nanotherm PCM+ a little while ago. The people who used it agreed that it beats ASIII.

squirtle632 · Aug 12, 2003

I will have to agree that PCM+ works BETTER than ACIII. My temps are down about 2°C from before.

Kino · Aug 12, 2003

your second shot should be Ceramique, if youre not getting the nanotherm, that it
ceramique is nonconductive, its cheaper, and easier to clean than ASIII
my 2 cents

Nanotherm · Aug 13, 2003

PCM is the worst performing thermal interface material. If you worked that hard getting your base flat, you will not want to use it.[/B]

IMOG,

You've got far too many "Stars" around your name to make a 'Newbie' statement like that. Am I supposed to assume that you've actually used the PCM+ before? If you had - and you actually applied and tested it properly - you wouldn't be making erroneous comments like that. Unless, of course, you work for one of our competitors - which may be entirely possible. I want to see you back up your comments with real data... come on now - show us what you know.

mjmnam · Aug 13, 2003

where could a person find the Shin Etsu stuff?

dalilman52 · Aug 13, 2003

if i were you, i would go with ceramique, on arctic silver's website, they have a bunch of reviews from other sites that say that cermaique has around a 2 degrees celcius difference with as3 and other stuff like nanotherm or silver xtc. personally, ceramique would be my choice because of all the pros and almost no cons
________
IPAD ACCESSORIES

TheMatrixHasYou · Aug 13, 2003

The reviews on Artic Silver's site are all about the old Nanotherm products, not the new PCM+. There was a big test done a few weeks back on some site, where the PCM+ won over like 15 other pastes including ASIII, Ceramique, Shin Etsu, and others. Also, it seems like PCM+ would be very easy to get a nice even layer due to it's composition.

Nanotherm · Aug 14, 2003

Good to see that there are actually a few "enlightened individuals" on this thread...

emericanchaos · Aug 14, 2003

chasingapple from this board did a review on the PCM+. use the search and see if you can find it. he shaved quite a few degrees celcius.

Ffats · Aug 14, 2003

Hehe, AMD_Me using an Intel?

Welcome!

Nanotherm · Aug 15, 2003

emericanchaos said:
chasingapple from this board did a review on the PCM+. use the search and see if you can find it. he shaved quite a few degrees celcius.

We trust chasingapple's still seeing good results.

Zoilo · Aug 15, 2003

I think I can clear up a few things...I think IMOG was referring to actual PCM (whatever that stands for) and not Nanotherm's product. Or is there a non+ version of the PCM? Also I believe there was a thread that held the link for the review and was titled "The Big Thermal Paste Shootout!" or something along those lines. Chasingapple has done some good reviews...I like them.

Anyway, I believe IMOG's comment was a misunderstanding and will probably be cleared up soon.

Lapping in regards to thermal grease

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