what ati card outperforms my geforce4 ti4600?

[Enemy Down!]

well, my favorite games of past have decided to re-appear in their second or even third editions all at once it seems! homeworld2 / half life 2 / doom3 / condition zero.

my geforce 4 is currently at my office working, performing 3d modeling and texture applications so i really can't just rip it out and start playing games with it. but i do have a geforce2 mx200 pci, and homeworld 2 really plays like crap on it. so i am going to buy a new card regardless because of the upcomming HL2 and DOOM3 requirements.

i am looking to go ati this time since they have done a better job in the graphics card dept. this year. what different models and prices are out there? i am flexible, but do not know how much i want to spend. it will depend which card can run the games i mentioned in at least a constant 30fps with all the eye candy turned on. i can't stand choppyness or stutering, so smooth game play is a must.

[SpaceRangerJoe]

depending on how much money you want to spend, the 9600pro is probably a pretty good bet. if you dont mind spending a little cash, try to find a 9800non pro somewhere. and if you really want to go all out, get a 9800pro. they seem to be the best of the best right now, and for future games. but of course, you pay (a lot) for that level of performance.

[Bobby]

under $200 = 9600pro
~$250 = 9800np
~$300 = 9800pro

You might want to wait a few months (maybe less) for new cards to come out, then these will drop further.

-Bobby

[Enemy Down!]

will the 9600pro stomp all over the geforce 4 ti4600? or do i have to spend $300+ to achieve such results? i might just suck it up and rip out the geforce 4 that is in my office and bring it home to play homeworld 2 for now....i mean, if the ti4600 runs HW2 at a constant 30fps with full effects, and the 9600pro only runs it at 33fps with full effects, i might just wait until prices come down.

thanks for the feedback!

edit; also, my rig only supports up to 4x agp, will this change things?

[|\/|oDdiC(_)$]

you asking wether the 9600 PRO kills the 4600 LOL you should really read this:http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1863&p=8 this means that its PRETTY PATHETIC that a 9600 PRO is beating a GF FX 5900 ULTRA LOL :D and since your awaiting HL2, well i dont have to finish THIS sentance ;)

[Bobby]

I don't think the 9600pro would "stomp" a Ti4600. The 9800np would definitely be noticeable as well as the 9800pro. I'm sort of in the same situation and my Ti4200 o/c'd to 300/550 is serving me very well right now.

From what I've heard, 4x to 8x isn't a really big jump in performance. I've never really experienced the difference so I can't say personally.

-Bobby

[eh?]

Originally posted by Enemy Down!
well, my favorite games of past have decided to re-appear in their second or even third editions all at once it seems! homeworld2 / half life 2 / doom3 / condition zero.

my geforce 4 is currently at my office working, performing 3d modeling and texture applications so i really can't just rip it out and start playing games with it. but i do have a geforce2 mx200 pci, and homeworld 2 really plays like crap on it. so i am going to buy a new card regardless because of the upcomming HL2 and DOOM3 requirements.

i am looking to go ati this time since they have done a better job in the graphics card dept. this year. what different models and prices are out there? i am flexible, but do not know how much i want to spend. it will depend which card can run the games i mentioned in at least a constant 30fps with all the eye candy turned on. i can't stand choppyness or stutering, so smooth game play is a must. whoa whoa, there is a homeworld2?!?




sorry to thread hyjack, but i recently got into homeworld. And i love it.

[|\/|oDdiC(_)$]

Originally posted by Bobby
I don't think the 9600pro would "stomp" a Ti4600.
-Bobby



well if he wants DX 9 (which is what you SHOULD have to play HL2) then you should really consider the 9600 PRO. Its either better, or on par with the ti 4600, but either way, the 9600 beats the crap outta all FX's whicha re PURE 200% crap.

[PreservedSwine]

The $250 R9800np is what your'e looking for.

IN DX8 titles, it "stomps" a Ti4600, and in DX9 titles, well, the Ti4600 isn't DX9 so it's kinda hard to compare, heh:)

[Enemy Down!]

sorry to thread hyjack, but i recently got into homeworld. And i love it.
yes, HW2 came out in stores yesturday and i picked up a copy. if i were you, i would play HW1 until you finish it, and then go to HW2. HW cataclysim was an expansion of HW1 and though it brought some new features, it was not as good as the original.

my favorite level on HW1 was the "ghost" ship stage. the main difference in HW2's offering is in the ship size models can be roughly 15 times the size of the original (im not exxagerating) and that is why a good graphics card is needed to play. i only played through the first level and from my first impressions, it looks like it starts out right where it left off, this time with more accurate 3d model sizes.

well, i did some more research and discovered that the 9800np is hard to obtain. so the 9600 pro can beat even the newest nvidia? also, what about the 9800pro with 256mb of ram, are they worth it?

edit; read that article, interesting. looks like the 9600 pro will hold me out until doom3 arrives. that may be the way to go. HW2 is DX9 btw. i just wonder if my cpu and only agp 4x (and it being a dually) will act as a bottlenck for anything over the 9600pro....

[Bobby]

Moddicus,

I think your judgement is clouded by being an ATI fanboy :p

While I agree the ATI cards are better than the current crop (crap?) of nVidia cards, that's not the point here, he already has a Ti4600 he could use and is wondering if he should lay out $300 for a new card or wait a bit for the prices to come down.

With the current games available now, a Ti4600 is faster than a 9600pro. My suggestion was to stick with it if he could, then get a 9800np or pro when the prices drop.

Check out THIS (http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/video/Sapphire_Ultimate_13.html) review for a more realistic comparison with current games.

If you can't or don't want to wait, the 9800np for $250 is probably the best choice at the moment.

-Bobby

[SpaceRangerJoe]

i think i am going to second what bobby is saying. if i still had my 4600, i would have stuck with that until at least this christmas time i think. it could easily play any games that i have today with good resolutions. but since i am going to want to getting hl2 and other games in the not to distant future, it would definately be time for an upgrade in order to keep up withe dx9 stuff thats coming out.

but as has been said before, if you are only interested in dx8 based games right now, then dont worry about dropping the cash for a new card just yet, and wait a month or two, or more for the prices to drop.

[Enemy Down!]

going by bobby's link, looks like games that do not use dx9 are running better on the geforce fx5900.

well, my test will be tonight where i will rip out the ti4600 from the computer at work and bring it home to see how well HW2 plays. if there is choppynes, i will buy the 9600pro because i fear my dually setup will be a bottleneck for anything higher.

[|\/|oDdiC(_)$]

well, im sure that fanboyism and brain washing gets to me while on these topics ;) lol sorry again, but im totally saying the way i feel, which is probably not the answer that he was looking for :( lol anyways, yeah i agree with you bobby, and hope Enemy Down! goes about picking his new card the right way...........................................ther es the wrong way, then theres the ATi way! lmao (sorry, jsut had to :P:D)

[saulin]

well if he wants DX 9 (which is what you SHOULD have to play HL2) then you should really consider the 9600 PRO. Its either better, or on par with the ti 4600, but either way, the 9600 beats the crap outta all FX's whicha re PURE 200% crap.

LOL @ you.

If all you care about is DX9 games perhaps... But seriosly what about all the other kick ass games that are DX8.1?

Good luck beating my FX with a 9600 Pro then. hahaha.

[Enemy Down!]

well i just went out to circuit city and bought the 9800np on sale for $250!

what is the difference between the np and the pro? can i easily overlcock the np to match the pro?

[Damian]

The only difference is in clock speeds, and yes you can. Quite easily, in fact.

[Enemy Down!]

is that all, just the clock speeds? i mean the package for the pro said that it has new z-buffer III technology or something like that.

i just installed the new radeon 9800 now. why can't i select the 2048x1536 resolution as stated in the box, on my desktop? i know the monitor cannot display that, but shouldn't the choice be there anyway?

edit; also, it detects the card as 9800 pro...

[SpaceRangerJoe]

if your computer recognizes your monitor and installed the drivers for it, i think it should automatically filter out the resolutions that it cannont display. i know mine does that with refresh rates and resolutions. my monitor cable also made a difference in the resolutions i could choose from. when i had a normal vga, it would only go up to 1600x1200, but now that i have an rgb, it goes a bit higher. not that i care, cause i cant read whats on the screen if it gets any smaller, hehe.

[Enemy Down!]

ok i just finished 3dmark2003 and got a score of 4579. i tried running the older 3dmark and it seemed like the ti4600 ran that better.

anyway, what is the stock clock speeds on this 9800?

also, how come 3dmark and other software are recognizing it as a 9800 pro?

i am trying to instal the software that came on the cd but it is giving me a fatal error saying that the video driver was not found.
it also said to setup the vga driver....:(

[Enemy Down!]

i went to ati website to download the software manually and it worked. now, to find the overclock feature.....

what is the speed of the 9800 np and the 9800 pro?

[highacker]

the speed on the 9800 pro is 380 core and like 350 memory not sure about the memory, might be different, you can also try to flash it and get the same thing as the 9800 pro but it's quite risky, i did it with mine and worked ok.

[Enemy Down!]

i know it is 380 core, but are you sure only 350 memory?

anyway, i did some more research and know a bit more. it turns out that my 9800 has infineon ram with 3.0ns. oh well.....

so i got rage tweak overclocking software and right now i am at 398.25 core and 330.75 memory clocks. i got 5370 on the 3dmark2003, quite an improvement. i will see how far i can go. i tried 370 clock memory and it was not running correctly. so far it looks like i can hit the 9800 pro speeds, even with the infineon ram.

[Twigs]

Originally posted by Enemy Down!
ok i just finished 3dmark2003 and got a score of 4579. i tried running the older 3dmark and it seemed like the ti4600 ran that better.

anyway, what is the stock clock speeds on this 9800?

also, how come 3dmark and other software are recognizing it as a 9800 pro?

i am trying to instal the software that came on the cd but it is giving me a fatal error saying that the video driver was not found.
it also said to setup the vga driver....:(

it just does that, update the drivers and it will probably change

[highacker]

thaty it's actually a really good overclock for non pro card, im sure you won't have any problems if you flash it then, you might even go a bit higher. that's an awesome score btw

[highacker]

oh. and the fact that your card shows a 9800 pro it's normal, it did the same thing to me. i'm not sure why, LOL

[Enemy Down!]

ok i am still overclocking it. and right now i am at 409.50 core and 335.50 mem and just got a score of 5426 in 3dmark2003.

edit; ok i am pretty sure i am reaching the limits here. i know what happens when i take the ti4600 too far, it freezes up. with the ati, will it freeze up as well, then just rebooting it and it will be fine (go back to safe settings), or will it "flicker" or give me garbled screens?

edit: ok i just tried to bump the mem to 342 and it is flickering (can barely read what i type). i will reboot and continue with bumping up the core.

[Enemy Down!]

ok thats as far as she will go without flickering, 409.5/335.30.

the only thing is that sometimes the damn card loses it's resolution settings upon a reboot.....

edit; oh and when i opened the box, the seal on the anti-static bag was broken and the bag was also crumpled:rolleyes:

what do you guys say, keep her, or return?

edit again; after further testing i found out that i get what the ati group calls "artifacts", or flickering of sorts so i was forced to reduce the clock speeds to 384 core and 330 mem to be stable. i got 5216 with these settings.

[Mustanley]

You might try running Detonator RIP to remove all traces of the old nvidia drivers. Are you getting artifacts in 3dmark at your current overclock?

[Enemy Down!]

why would removing the nvidia drivers have to do with anything?

looks like the max clocks without artifacts is 384.80 core and 324.00 mem.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Bobby
Moddicus,

I think your judgement is clouded by being an ATI fanboy :p

While I agree the ATI cards are better than the current crop (crap?) of nVidia cards, that's not the point here, he already has a Ti4600 he could use and is wondering if he should lay out $300 for a new card or wait a bit for the prices to come down.

With the current games available now, a Ti4600 is faster than a 9600pro. My suggestion was to stick with it if he could, then get a 9800np or pro when the prices drop.

Check out THIS (http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/video/Sapphire_Ultimate_13.html) review for a more realistic comparison with current games.

If you can't or don't want to wait, the 9800np for $250 is probably the best choice at the moment.

-Bobby

Heh, Thats kinda funny as I'm a devout Nvidiot .....

The Ti4600 was and still is a nice card thats plenty fast enough to run all current games, I just replaced my Ti4600 with a 9800, and I debated for days over getting a FX card or a ATI solution and I'm not suffering from buyers remorse as I made the right choice.

Your advise about the 9800 Non Pro is good advise as its the best bang for the buck without a doubt.

[Perre]

Have you turned off any AA and AF?

[SpaceRangerJoe]

if the bag had been opened when i got the card, i would have taken it back right away, and i probably would have made a scene while i was doing it. i would not pay that kind of money for a product that had already been opened. but on the other hand, it seems to be working fine, so its really up to you. nice oc. is the card still stock, or are you putting ram sinks or anything on it? bigger heatsink on the gpu? a friend of mine has an sk6 on his 9500np that he modded to 9700 (actually shows as a 9800 which is weird). he gets over 18500 on 3dmark2001. and boy does that heatsink get hot!

[Enemy Down!]

the card is stock.

i got 12,000 on 3dmark 2001se with my setup.

now why the hell does it lose it's resolution after a reboot or shutdown?!!?! it likes to default to 1024 x 768 at 16 bit color:mad:

also, the manual stated that i have to get agp drivers? i was having dificult time getting such drivers because. in system devices, it says "AMD-762 Processor to AGP controller. where can i find the drivers for it, i tried AMD website and via but nothing specifically was available for the 762 chipset.

[QUOTE]Have you turned off any AA and AF?[QUOTE]
arent these off by default? why should i try turning them off?

[Bobby]

SSS - I have no allegiances when computer stuff is involved. Competition breeds the best products for the best prices. I bought my video card back in May and the main reason was that it was a great price for the performance as I was planning on upgrading the card by the end of the year. I was waiting to see how the new nVidia and ATI cards did. The Ti4200 does everything I want it to do without a problem. When I was looking for a new system, I looked hard at the AMD stuff and the 800mhz Intel chips were just coming out. I waited a bit before I bought and I'm happy I stuck with Intel, sort of.

EnemyDown - Congrats on your new purchase. I agree with SpaceRangerJoe about bringing the card back if the static bag was open but since you already installed it and it works fine, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The reason you might be having problems is that you didn't fully uninstall the nVidia (or other) video drivers. Common sense would say it shouldn't make a difference but we're talking windows here :p. Search for Detonator RIP and run it on your computer. You should run it a few times in a row as it won't find everything on the first pass (unless they've updated the app). You might have to search the registry for instances of "nVidia" and delete them too. Then reboot. Then install the ATI drivers. Don't use the ones from the CD as those are probably outdated and useless. Download them from ATI. Reboot. Now it should be good.

The AGP drivers should come from your motherboard maker, not your processor maker. Look for the drivers on MSI's website.

If you want the ultimate 3dMark2001 scores, turning off AA and AF will give you the best scores. You might not need them in some games but if you start noticing some jagged edges in your graphics, try a higher resolution or turn on AA and/or AF.

Good luck!

-Bobby

[Enemy Down!]

how do you turn them off completely? in the direct 3d settings, it will go as low as 2x, but i dont see where it is zero.....what about the main settings slider? should i manually set that to performance? because that affects other features. the 3dmark scores were achieved with settings untouched.

[billstuck]

Originally posted by Enemy Down!
how do you turn them off completely? in the direct 3d settings, it will go as low as 2x, but i dont see where it is zero.....what about the main settings slider? should i manually set that to performance? because that affects other features. the 3dmark scores were achieved with settings untouched.
selecting application preference turns them off.

[Enemy Down!]

man, it keeps reseting the damn resolution to 1024x768 after every reboot! or something like that!! this is ticking me off!:mad:

detonator rip did not even run, it gave me error messages.

[SpaceRangerJoe]

what resolution are you trying to run your desktop at? whatever it is, try something different, preferably lower. maybe 1280x1024. maybe it has some sort of problem with running that high, and wont load it by default. just a thought. i have almost no experience with ATI drivers, so i dont have many ideas. let us know if that helps though.

[Enemy Down!]

it doesnt matter what resolution i set it to, it defaults back to 1024x768 16 bit!

[SpaceRangerJoe]

hmm, well there goes my idea. sorry man. ill keep thinking about it though. good luck.

[Enemy Down!]

do you think this is hardware or software related?

doesnt ati have a 24 hour tech support number??

why does it instal 2 display drivers for the same monitor?

i tried uninstalling and reinstalling and it did nothing. once i reinstal the driver and restart, it boots up at 1024x768 16 bit. :mad:

[SpaceRangerJoe]

if i had to guess, i would say its the software. maybe try uninstalling the video card drivers, and the monitor drivers. reboot, then reinstall them. it might not help, but its worth a try.

[Enemy Down!]

i am returning this card back. it just seems that the ati drivers are not suitable for SMP systems...or something like that. i have tried everything to make it work right. but i am getting the same crappy results. i think ati's drivers are real crap. in a professional program that i use (it's not a dx9 program) for 3d modeling, it actually runs slower on the 9800 than it does on the ti4600 in 1600x1200 resolution:eek:

so far i see it as having spent over $250 dollars to be playing homeworld 2.....

i think both companies are junk right now. ati drivers are crap, and nvidia has to get their heads out of their butt!

so to recap this crappy ordeal; the software that came with the cd does not want to instal under any circumstances. it keeps saying that the INF and/or video driver is not found (even though i have updated every driver possible for this motherboard, agp drivers installed etc,.)and that i should instal a generic video driver and then try again, or some kind of crap like that. the drivers found on ati's website do work, go figure:rolleyes:. but when installed, the resolution that i need it set at (800x600 32bit for a 19" monitor) gets defaulted back to 1024x768 in 16bit upon a reboot. sometimes it keeps the setting after the reboot, but more than often fails to do so...weird:(

the professional program that i use acts weird upon starting it, the monitor glitches and it throws me into a weird resolution (does not do this with the ti4600 card) and the entire system gets stuck in that resolution (or it oddly resizes the screen). since this program costs $4,000 dollars, the new card that i buy must be able to handle it better than the ti4600. also, when i walk around in the 3d environment that was created in the program, and unlike the ti4600, it is almost impossible in 1600x1200 with the ati...i thought this card had 8 rendering pipelines:rolleyes: so much for that. program uses open gl and is not dx9.

:mad:

[Enemy Down!]

i think i fixed the problem. i downloaded and installed the older catalyst drivers 3.5 and it is stable.

2 days of agony due to ati's "recomended" drivers:rolleyes:

[PreservedSwine]

Originally posted by Enemy Down!
do you think this is hardware or software related?

doesnt ati have a 24 hour tech support number??

why does it instal 2 display drivers for the same monitor?

i tried uninstalling and reinstalling and it did nothing. once i reinstal the driver and restart, it boots up at 1024x768 16 bit. :mad:

It supports dual display's, that means you have 2 RAMDACS, and two display drivers.......

[Enemy Down!]

It supports dual display's, that means you have 2 RAMDACS, and two display drivers.......
so i assume that is normal then, even though i only have one monitor.

[TUK101]

Removing the old drivers helps by keeping the registry from trying to send the wrong commands to the agp. You might also want to update your sig if you plan on keeping the card. From what I read from the thread I would probably keep ithe card if it didnt look like anybody tried to mod the card, you are getting a pretty descent OC out of her.