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4 sticks is better than 2....

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idioteQnology

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
Location
Jersey
ound this very interesting article on anandtech which tackles my exact question.


they actually found that dual chanel ram systems run BEST with FOUR sticks of ram

i am going to pick up wx256mb of hyperx pc3500 and this way i should lose no oc'ing ability. its a good read this article.

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1839

their findings match the intel white paper results for how many sticks of ram perfomr best in a dual channel configuration.
 
Two sticks of doublesided work just as well. And the performance gain is minimal. Not really worth the overclock you lose.
 
One would have to take with a grain of salt everything that Anandtech claims about memory given recent claim, they had, how 1:1 is significantly better than asynchronuos which was not exactly established. This looks like they are out to support that claim again and whatever they come up with I would call biased.

Anandtech just like Tom's Hardware became more and more biased in whatever they do.
 
i am just glad because most people on the forums seem to think that if u have 4 sticks vs 2 sticks u are screwed. just make sure the 2nd set of 2 sticks can handle the oc ure first 2 sticks have and you are going to have as good performance as 2.
 
In my case I lost on performance but of course I gained on bandwidth since it is 1 GB versus 512 MB.
But of course it might be only my experience. I lost on FSB clock which is why.
 
The sticks aren't the problem as I understand it. The more sticks the mainboard has to address, the lower speed it can address them at stably. And more ram doesn't account for more bandwidth.
 
Yes, increased load on the address bus is responsible for the loss of FSB you encounter with four sticks. It's the same factor that kills the memory OC on i845x chipsets if you run more than one stick.

You are correct that more memory does not increase bandwidth. It does impact the PCMark2002 memory scores though as the test uses some large data objects (which is the factor that makes it infinitely superior to Sandra for memory performance evaluation).

There is always a marked difference between what we call "overclocking" and what reviewers call it when producing articles of this sort. Make no mistake, from the perspective of most users here 4 sticks will indeed kill the OC.
 
You are correct that more memory does not increase bandwidth. It does impact the PCMark2002 memory scores though as the test uses some large data objects (which is the factor that makes it infinitely superior to Sandra for memory performance evaluation).

:D
Of course it increases the bandwidth and the only place you won't notice that is Sandra. For if that is not the case there would be no reason why not to use say 32 MB RAM. The more RAM you use the bigger bandwidth it will be. Check MemTest, check Aida32 to see that.
 
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whatever2003 said:


:D
Of course it increases the bandwidth and the only place you won't notice that is Sandra. For if that is not the case there would be no reason why not to use say 32 MB RAM. The more RAM you use the bigger bandwidth it will be. Check MemTest, check Aida32 to see that.

Incorrect. Sandra is showing the bandwidth, but is unaware of latency and capacity. Those other tests show differences because they are using larger data objects for their measurement than sandra, as well as being sensitive to latency issues that don't show up on the very simplistic and tiny footprint testing method that sandra uses. The other tests are better evaluations of memory subsystem performance, but sandra (especially in the unbufferred mode) is a strong idicator of bandwidth and is suitable for demonstrating that larger memory banks do not increase bandwidth itself, only allow larger data objects to be manipulated before the latency and other more complex aspects of memory subsystem performance come strongly into play.
 
Sandra is showing the bandwidth, but is unaware of latency and capacity. Those other tests show differences because they are using larger data objects for their measurement than sandra

Sandra is unaware of latency? What latency are you talking about?
Memtest uses large memory objects? That is news to me.
So would you define precisely what the memory bandwidth and memory latency is?
 
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Sandra knows what the latency values are set to in the bios, but the values themselves barely affect the results of the bandwidth test (as it should be, bandwidth and latency are two seperate things).

I don't know the exact details of the memtest's methodology, but it is extremely impacted by latency. This indicates the methodology is very different from sandra's, so no difference in its behavior comes as any surprise. Perhaps it was wrong to lump it in with a test like PCMark, as it is a different kind of test, but the important point is that its behavior falls much more closely in line with PCMark than it does sandra.

Bandwidth is defined as the amount of data that can be transferred per unit time, once a transfer begins. Latency is the time that elapses before an activity takes places, such as a data transfer. The overall effectiveness of a memory subsystem is the composite of these and other factors.

Just like trying to quantify hard drive performance with a single number, it is virtually impossible to do the same with memory. For some applications bandwidth is the dominant factor, for others latency is, some are affected strongly by both, some by neither. Just like drive performance memory subsystem effectiveness can vary all over the map depending on the exact task we are talking about, and each task is generally different. There is no way to simulate each and every one of the essentially infinite possibilities for the purpose of creating a composite score.

That being said, PCMark's memory test is the closest I have seen to a one-stop-shopping answer to memory subsystem performance evaluation. No benchmark is perfect, escpecially a low level syntetic one. But the results in PCMark are effected to a fairly realistic degree by both latency and bandwidth, and the results correspond well to the impact noted in real applications that are sensitive to memory subsytem performance (although many are not).

Sandra is a very useful comparison and diagnostic tool, but it is not a good benchmark. Its view of memory performance is too myopic to reveal much about the consequences of differing memory subsystem variables on realized application performance. It does however do a good job of isolating simple bandwidth from other factors, unfortunately most users are not in a position to put this one component of memory performance in its proper context.
 
yeah, what he said...

The version of memtest I have can't tell memory bandwidth for poop. Is there a version that can?
 
whatever2003 said:
Laugable. :D
And not worth discussing.

Dont insult other members by "laughing" at their post if your not even going to try and defend why you think it's "laugable"
 
Look at it this way. You have two buckets. The first is your cpu. The second is your memory. You can only move the water between the buckets with a teacup. It's going to take exactly as long to put 2 gallons of water into a 2 gallon bucket as it is to put 2 gallons of water into a 5 gallon bucket. Just because the bucket holds more doesn't magically make you (the bandwidth bottleneck) move faster.... At least not until the 2 gallon bucket is full and you must start moving water from it into the basin with a thimble. But that isn't a memory bandwidth issue.
 
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