is 360w enough? [Archive] - Overclockers Forums

speedy4500

10-08-03, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Archangel8
NO, splurge and buy a 550

Wrong. I've seen a 350w Enermax run a Canterwood motherboard, 3.0 P4, 4 hard drives, a Radeon 9800 Pro, and two optical drives. It was rated for 17A on the 12v rail and ran things fine. A good name brand 400w PSU should be plenty for a 3200+ Barton, hell it should be plenty for almost any desktop machine, except for perhaps an overclocked duallie with multiple hard disks. Stop biting into the marketing hype, a huge PSU is NOT necessary...it's kinda like a two-foot tall spoiler on the back of a Civic.

james.miller

10-08-03, 04:28 PM

my enermax 365w runs my rig rock solidly. no problems at all.

Deathknight

10-08-03, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by speedy4500

it's kinda like a two-foot tall spoiler on the back of a Civic.

Heh don't get me started on those shopping carts with lawn mower engines.

I agree there is no need to spend top dollar on a huge PSU unless you have huge needs. A fortron 350W can power most machines. Its a quality brand with a good warranty and it runs very quiet. $36 at newegg. Can't be beat in terms of bang for buck. Something tells me that Archangel8 sells cars for a living ;)

The thing is that you need to evaluate your individual situation. If you are running a dually or you are running a heavily oced machine that draws a ton on the 12v rail then yeah maybe you need to epgrade to a monster PSU. For a light to medium oc with some drives, fans and maybe a couple of cold cathode lights you don't need to go bonkers.

Archangel8

10-08-03, 09:43 PM

You know you people are way too sensitive. The fact of the matter is that the difference between a 3xx and 5xx in respect to price is right around what, oh a whole whopping $65.00 bucks! I don't care if your mamas wheel chair can run on it for a period of time, its better and safer to spend a little extra and get a high quality PSU, as there is a diffence. Hell most here have spent more on a fan controller.

BTW, the guy is looking for advice and asked, that is my opinion and as for falling for the hype, LOL, you probably wouldn't even believe what I do for living so I won't go there. If you don't think that cheap psu's cause problems and believe that somehow or another a fallacious argument of "it works for me, doesn't it for everyone" or "my system is the most power hungry of them all, I am geek hear me roar BS" then you need to go back to school and take a course on logic, and shore up the tude.

They are right, however, that there is no doubt that you may be able to find a nice 3xx cpu that will do the job, however, even if you are going to go that route I would suggest that you do spend a little more and get a quality PSU. I was able to pick up my True Power 550 with adjustable voltages for $95 bucks. No matter how much they want to cheer the fact that a 3xx is the cats ass, a 550 True Power will last you for years to come and handle any upgrades or tweaks you may want to do. For $50 to 60 more you can get a cpu that is sure to meet any demands you may have, and given the tendancy of OCers to upgrade on yearly basis, you might as well get it now, and at least never have to even sweat a prob, or at least severely limit the chances.

I don't know what kind of resources you have but even when I was a starving student I spent more on Saturday night than $40. So if you really want to get real, if your dirt poor buy what you can, but if it means only waiting a week or so to save then just buy a 550, again we are talking 40-60 bucks here, given the comments above you would think we were talking about a damn ferrari . . . :) now those I wouldn't mind selling, but a stupid psu that costs a whole $95 bucks, give me a break, you guys do need to find a life or at least a better paying job.

Archangel8

10-08-03, 09:53 PM

BTW if you think the fortran is the cats ass you might want to look at this post

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=237214

You have stick your ear next to the 550 to even hear it at low, and if you don't think that smaller PSU's generate more heat under load as comnpared to a 550 under the same load then I will consider investing in a car lot near your homes:)

Oh stupid me . . . hits hand to forhead . . . it seems that you already suggested the 350 as an alternative . . . *shakes head in disbelief at the ludicrousy.*

Deathknight

10-08-03, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by Archangel8

Oh stupid me . . . hits hand to forhead . . . it seems that you already suggested the 350 as an alternative . . . *shakes head in disbelief at the ludicrousy.*

Its very apparent how much you love your 550, but if you would be objective for a minute or 2 then you might be suprised what you see ;).

Fact: The 350W fortron with 120mm fan is one of the quietest PSUs on the market(more than likely the average system's videocard and harddrive are louder).

Another fact is that you if you save the $70+ for the appropriate powered PSU you can replace it when it dies with another supply of the appropriate power level. I firmly believe that Fortron is of the highest quality and, as good as antec is, I do not believe that you will get triple the life out of that PSU for triple the cost. In fact I would speculate you would get about the same life.

If you get a PSU that is capable of handling the load you are putting it under the extra power is not going to ensure its longevity. Sure if its straining to produce the power then thats a different story. This is why you evaluate your needs instead of buying the most expensive thing out. Using your same mentality I could slap myself on the forhead on why you were so silly to buy a true 550 instead of a PC Power & cooling 510 for only $75 more. This game could be played until the end of time and you have a powersupply the size of a house in your machine....

In the end buying a PSU is about meeting your current and future power needs. I personally like the idea of not having to worry about the PSU in my system and I don't mind spending alot on my PSU but I could not in good conscience recommend to someone else the same thing when they have not provided a case for ever needing that amount of power.

Personally I think the 'it only costs X amount more than that so I will get it even if I do not need it' mentality may be fun when it comes to you hobby, but majority of the people out there cannot possibly afford to apply it to every purchase they make. Spending x3 as much on everything you buy could get quite expensive. It makes for a good argument in 1 particular case but it doesn't hold any water if it doesn't hold up in every case ;)

Archangel8

10-08-03, 10:41 PM

Dude the contradictions in that post are beyond reproach. Believe what you want and mislead if you so care to do so, but I would wager that your experience in these matters is equivalent to the prior post "I've seen a puter run with a 350 just fine." Give me a break, you want to cut costs, then do it on something that doesn't serve as the foundation for your system. I have no prob in getting a good deal, and all of my stuff is refurbished so go sell your used cars to someone else, I already bought a few. The one thing I won't buy used is a PSU, as the troubleshooting with respect to s system is hard enough without having to verify that your PSU isn't arching, or sending surges through the system. My argument is common sense, and just becasue you refuse to "believe" doesn't mean that it does not hold water.

BTW . . . LOL . . .the TP550 is in my humble opinion the best PSU out there for the buck, if you want to talk expensive then lets talk the redudants that are sitting in three of the servers I have purchased to ensure my network doesn't go down. Yes I believe that $60 bucks is worth it and think anyone who does not is a fool, but hey that is my opinion, you have yours and we can leave it at that.

CrashOveride

10-08-03, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Archangel8
Dude the contradictions in that post are beyond reproach. Believe what you want and mislead if you so care to do so, but I would wager that your experience in these matters is equivalent to the prior post "I've seen a puter run with a 350 just fine." Give me a break, you want to cut costs, then do it on something that doesn't serve as the foundation for your system. I have no prob in getting a good deal, and all of my stuff is refurbished so go sell your used cars to someone else, I already bought a few. The one thing I won't buy used is a PSU, as the troubleshooting with respect to s system is hard enough without having to verify that your PSU isn't arching, or sending surges through the system. My argument is common sense, and just becasue you refuse to "believe" doesn't mean that it does not hold water.

BTW . . . LOL . . .the TP550 is in my humble opinion the best PSU out there for the buck, if you want to talk expensive then lets talk the redudants that are sitting in three of the servers I have purchased to ensure my network doesn't go down. Yes I believe that $60 bucks is worth it and think anyone who does not is a fool, but hey that is my opinion, you have yours and we can leave it at that.

I totaly agree with what Deathnight says. I think that you should check out some of the PSU stickies and Antec/Forton/Sparkel specs. It also might ease your mind to know that Forton internals are used in may more expensive PSU's. So I suppose if you wanted to spend more you could get one of those or you could skip the extra middle-men and buy it directly from the manufacturer (and through someone like newegg I suppose but this still gets rid of a middle-man or 2 that as far as I know is there in most compainies).

Did you know PC Power and coloing (for the most part, undisputably the best PSU company around if you exclude the prices) uses Forton as the base of some of their PSU(s)? They just make some slight modefications so that it meets their tolerances wich are much tigher than most PSU companies' (5%-1% (1% tolerance on the 5+ and 12+v rails!) as opposed to the usal 15-5% (depending on wich rail)).

In short many tests have proven Forton PSU's to preform well and are often (EDIT:: I was stupid ->) underrated. That, in conjunction with their low price puts them on top of my list. However, if you need a really high wattage PSU (liek 500+) I would be more likley to go with somone like PC Power and Cooling. For somthing in Btwn ~450w I might be tempted to go with antec because the price from a higher/mid wattage Forton is not that much differnt from a higher/mid wattage Antec. Understand that I am not saying Antec is bad, I am just saying that when it comes to price/preformance ratio (which, I might add, is what I am all about) Fortron beats em' out.

Deathknight

10-08-03, 11:52 PM

Where did this talk of used power supplies come from? I mentioned used nothing. What I don't understand is this mentality that something needs to be expensive to be quality. Fortron is not a knock off brand PSU. I consider them to be an elite class of PSU and that is an opinion shared by a great many of the members of this forum.

I am not attempting to mislead everyone, in fact I agree with you 100% that the PSU is very important. It is possible to build a house on a foundation that is not is not made of solid gold however. If the house itself is a 1 story shack then what is the need for a foundation that could hold up a skyscraper? I myself have spent a small fortune on PSUs but I have done so after carefully examining the load I was going to be putting on them.

Its quite obvious that you are blindly devoted to the TP550. Thats not neccessarily a bad thing considering the quality of that PSU. It is not the end all be all of PSUs though. There is quality to be found in other places, but you need to have an open enough mind to look for it! :D

Originally posted by Archangel8
if you want to talk expensive

Actually I don't, thats my whole point ;)

Did this person post and say hi I need to find a PSU to power my 3200+ processor that is controlling our missile defense system? Um no (and frankly I would be a little concerned if it did! :eek:). How did me trying to make a point that you don't need to overkill every machine go from buying an expensive PSU that may not be needed to buying a redundant PSU for a server?

There is a place for every product out there but I feel that I need to speak practicality here to keep things honest. A person that might play tetris and surf the web does not need a product that is designed for a server with 24/7/365 uptime and I honestly don't understand the reason for it even being brought up. Until BLOB actually comes in here and says I need to power a multiprocessor server that needs gauranteed uptime I think its silly to throw around suggestions such as this, which just make the decision process that much harder.

Deathknight

10-08-03, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by CrashOveride
In short many tests have proven Forton PSU's to preform well and are often overrated. Ahem I think you mean underrated :rolleyes: :D

Oklahoma Wolf

10-09-03, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by BLOB
is 360 enough for a barton 3200+?

Well, now that I have a splitting headache from reading through this thread, I'll try and drag it back on track ;)

It depends on the quality of the PSU and what else is running in the system, as others have said. If it is a good PSU, like the aforementioned Fortron/Sparkle 350, then it probably will do fine. This PSU has proven itself time and again in these forums, and can outpower many 400w units. If the PSU is a lousy 360, like the many incarnations of Deer, then it will likely not work too well.

We really need more info on this PSU and the components it'll be running before helping you make an informed decision.

larva

10-09-03, 01:13 AM

Look at it this way... how much do you wish to spend? It all boils down to alternatives, and which one you take is usually defined if not outright determined by financial constraints.

At $36, the Fortron 350 with the 120mm fan at newegg is the best value in power supplies, period. Of all time. Great product, great value. It's just a bit on the small side. A 3200+ at stock clock will not challenge one, but if overclocking gets extreme enough it wll. P4's at the 3.2 GHz level start to bother the unit's 12V line, but it will run them up to 3.5GHz with moderate strain. And AXP systems hardly ever bring one to its knees.

But at $36, it's dynamite. I'm thinking of putting one in my rig as the 1A stronger 12V line has proven to make a difference as compared to my older Sparkle 350. Chief amongst the motivations is the extremely good build quality and mass along with the nearly perfect design and cooling. I'm almost willing to put up with it running hard just because its one of those timeless winners that are easy to spot.

For those with more than $36, there are other great supplies, but none with the awesome 120mm fan yet. The 530W Fortron is very stout, and the Antec True Power 480 and 550 are great. Any of the three will do. The Fortron is $75 and the Antecs are $80-100. All are very powerful and it really comes down to your presonal preference and budget. If you don't think of 75 bucks as being a lot to spend, get one of the big ones.

CrashOveride

10-09-03, 01:35 AM

If there is any person on thiese forums to listen to about PSU's this is the one!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Originally posted by Deathknight
Ahem I think you mean underrated :rolleyes: :D

lol, thnks:D

Archangel8

10-09-03, 06:56 AM

Listen I am no going to belabor the point, and the psu that is powering my system is not antec, but your talking about this guy or gal getting a deal on a 350 and saving 60-70when he or she has already put out the money for a 3200. Last I read the Barton 3200 isn't being sold for $65.00. Moreover, your standing on a soap box making assumptions that this guy or girl does not need the additional power when all you have to go on is a statement regarding the cpu., and throwing out condescending remarks and then projecting your own bias upon me. Never ceases to amaze me.

The simple fact of the matter is that if I had a choice in PSUs and it was a question of whether to spend an extra $65 for a TP550 for a system or go with a 350 that I may or may not have to change out later down the road I would go with the 550. You want to preach the benefits of your psu, good for you. If you want to classify a preference for a very well contructed PSU that has independant circuitry for the rails and that does not cost an arm and a leg as "loyalty" or "love" as you are trying so hard to suggest is the case, then I suggest you have a very strange defintion of those words.

When buying a PSU, there are many things to consider.
Price, scalability, dependability, noise, heat, etc...with an AMD system, especially OCed, heat is an issue. If this person is buying the high end AMD then I fail to see where money is an issue. I don't agree that the Fortron is the best bang for the buck when you consider all of the factors that go into making a buying decision. IMHO the TP550 for the price is a sweet deal, and if you disagree then that is fine with me. But don't deign to cast insults, expect no reprisal, and then condemn someone who trys to give this person a different view for the very thing you yourself appear to be suffering from. Enough said.

Well, now that I have a splitting headache from reading through this thread, I'll try and drag it back on track

Thats weird so do I.:)

And just so this does turn into another stupid volley, the Fortron is a good deal if you are on a budget, if you are not then as Larva put it get one of the others. Even though I don't hold iit in such high regard, because I have come across posts indicating that it does have some probs every now and then. I can't say the same for the Antec. Tom's hardware seems to think its the cats ass, but even he reccomends getting the higher watt model which I do believe is nicely priced also. TT550 is not the best PSU out there, but it is the best overall PSU available today for a high end oc'ed system in my opinion, and you don't have to build a missle silo to get your moenys worth:)

BLOB

10-09-03, 08:44 AM

thanks so much for the info everyone ^^

unreal

10-09-03, 09:38 AM

yeah,, brands make all the differencee

Archangel8

10-09-03, 10:01 AM

Yeah sorry about any confusion, I should know better than to involve myself in petty ego/flame wars, and I like this forum becasue most give well balanced advice.

My opinion about getting a higher wattage supply stems from the experience of building an old 440BX system with a 250 value PSU, and then having to throw it out the window when the P4s rolled out with additional power requirements. Upon looking at your query it appears that I may have also made an erroneous assumption in believing that you were wanting advice on what to purchase, if you already have a 360watt, and you have tested it to ensure that it is providing stable volts then you can throw all the advice I have given out the window, keep the supply until it dies or you need more juice. You can always upgrade later, and you might as well use what you have, as it will more than likely provide enough power for your system, and reliability will be dependant upon what brand of PSU it is.

CrashOveride

10-09-03, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by Archangel8
Upon looking at your query it appears that I may have also made an erroneous assumption in believing that you were wanting advice on what to purchase, if you already have a 360watt, and you have tested it to ensure that it is providing stable volts then you can throw all the advice I have given out the window, keep the supply until it dies or you need more juice. You can always upgrade later, and you might as well use what you have, as it will more than likely provide enough power for your system, and reliability will be dependant upon what brand of PSU it is.

That part I do agree on :D

I (and I doubt others did either) did not intend to have a Flame wars. Just a civil debate/arguement. There is a differnce:D

Deathknight

10-09-03, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by CrashOveride

That part I do agree on :D

I (and I doubt others) did not intend to have a Flame wars. Just a civil debate/arguement. There is a differnce:D

I agree I intended it to be civil the entire time. If you did not take it that way well I apologize for the way I worded my replies. I must admit you did set me off a little bit with some of the comments you made Archangel8. Slapping your head and saying my advice is ludicrious does come across a little flamish after all don't you think? Regardless I only intended to debate the issue and show the side I believed to be correct. I have no ego regarding this subject (or most any other). I am for the most part a pretty humble person. I am not the guy you are going to see posting "I do such and such for a living you must believe me!". I don't take much in life too serious except spending other people's money ;)

After all I have no vested interest in any brand of PSU, I just have an interest in helping people make good decisions. I have seen too many of my friends and relatives come back from the store with a $2500+ computer that gets turned on an hour or 2 a week! I am a little sensative on this issue considering a relative just got back from gateway where they configured an almost $3000 computer for him, insisting he needed all that stuff, but never really asking what his user habits were going to be.

I have no hard feelings, so I certainly hope nobody else does. If they do then the point of this thread was lost since it should have been (and really I thought it was?) about powersupplies not egos.

Archangel8

10-09-03, 11:39 AM

Well as I used to say to my mother after getting into a fight with my Brother . . . "He started it.":) Whether or not your intial comment regarding "I think Archangel8 sells cars for living." was or was not intended to be a derogatory comment is probably not worth discussing, but I took it that way. I try not to refer to someones prior post unless it directly refers to mine, and if you do not have any interest in ego/flame posting then you may want to consider that before combining your posts with a personal comment about someone. But I guess I could be wrong and you were trying to compliment me in calling me a car salesman, in that event I am sorry for implying you are an idiot.

Any way, could talk all day long about what debate vs. flaming is, but why? All this time spent on talking , we both could have paid for three TP550. Might as well just donated the money to help this guy get a 600watt PSU.:)

larva

10-09-03, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Deathknight
I agree I intended it to be civil the entire time.

And you did a very good job of it. Without your calming influence I would have had to edit this thread and issue warnings, and I'd rather read and post than expend my efforts on that kind of thing if at all possible. Make no mistake behavior of the high class that you have demonstrated here is noticed, appreciated, and may well pay dividends at some point.

Archangel8

10-09-03, 12:22 PM

Taking sides Larva:)

BTW, in the event you did not see my post, I was wondering whether or not you have had any experience in modding redundants in your 1700 plus puter builds?

Deathknight

10-09-03, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Archangel8
Well as I used to say to my mother after getting into a fight with my Brother . . . "He started it.":) Whether or not your intial comment regarding "I think Archangel8 sells cars for living." was or was not intended to be a derogatory comment is probably not worth discussing, but I took it that way.

Well I apologize if you took that comment as derogatory. I can put it on the record right now that if someone takes offense to something I say that they think is a little too personal, call me on it. Its in my joking nature to kid around(hey its just text, no way to truly understand intend, its why I try to litter my posts with smiley faces :D). Everyone around here is pretty good natured and thats the way I intended the comment to be taken. I only made it because you suggested a very top end unit without asking any questions to see if it was needed(ala a car salesman). I actually wasn't even sure if you were serious or not about the suggestion, I can see now after you explained your reasons that you were indeed totaly serious.

I would prefer to take any more discussions on this offline in PM Archangel8 so we can keep the thread as informational as we can (heh if thats even possible anymore). I don't hold a grudge at all, so I hope you won't ;)

Archangel8

10-09-03, 01:00 PM

I don't hold a grudge at all, so I hope you won't

LOL, no I don't either, and as matter of fact I was being flippant in my initial response. Actually I just found it funny that you were advocating the fortron on quality and low cost and then discussing the probs someone else was having with one on another thread.

Like you said its not a big deal, and I think that this person has enough input to do the research and decide for himselfherself as to whether 360 will meet his or her needs.

speedy4500

10-09-03, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Archangel8
Well as I used to say to my mother after getting into a fight with my Brother . . . "He started it.":)

Actually, I think I started it :D

Deathknight

10-09-03, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by speedy4500

Actually, I think I started it :D

:mad: :temper: Everyone pile on speedy4500! :D

Archangel8

10-09-03, 10:23 PM

Actually, I think I started it

LOL . . . yeah but you quit, and DK took up the battle so it kind of was guilt by association/adoption theory.

dustybyrd

10-10-03, 12:10 AM

NO, splurge and buy a 550

first, yesterday your "occupation" was lawyer and today, " ", what happened?

i don't believe this post was very helpful and might not be very accurate...

you didn't provide a reason for the suggestion to splurge...

and you suggested this without knowing more information...

like what power supply will be supplying the 360 watts to the barton 3200+

(for example an antec tp 380 actually is rated by antec to put out 360 watts...this supply is a very powerful supply that has been tested to 470watts at tomshardware.....or on the other hand many other "360 watt" psu's may come a bit short of that or fail easily....like a deer/allied)

or what are the rest of the system components BLOB plans
to run off of the 360 watts

(very few non-power hungry components or many power hungry components?)

or what speed BLOB plans on running the cpu and at what voltage

(maybe overclocked to 2.5ghz+ with 1.9volts or at stock speed and voltage?)

all of those things make a big difference as to whether 360 watts is enough for BLOB...

my own opinion is that the fortron 350 w/120mm fan is probably the best value psu on the market and it is certainly one of the quietest....

heck, you could buy TWO fortron 350's for less than one antec tp 550 ($72 versus ~$100-120)....and i guarentee you that if you properly configured two fortron 350's (also rated at tomshardware to 454 watts) to power one system....then you would have more power than one antec tp 550 could provide...

i have used the fortron 350 w/120mm fan (and an 80mm fan version as well)....and the fortron 530 and the Antec TP 550...

i liked them all...the 120mm fan fortron is the quietest...

but both the fortron 530 and antec tp 550 are not very loud...with the antec tp 550 being quieter at higher room temps than the fortron 530...

it depends on what BLOB wants to run with the 360 watts and how "real" those 360 watts are as to whether the 360 watts can do the job...