P4 3.2 Ghz & no fan? How long would it last?

[richklein]

Hi,

I have a Vapochill & an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe Mobo with a P4 3.2ghz processor.

I have been doing some testing & for some reason when the vapochill gets power, it is immediately powering up the processor (it should hold the mobo in an unpowered state until the compressor is cold enough).

Anyway, my question is if it takes 2-3 minutes to cool off the compressor, how long would it take a 3.2ghz processor to burn up? 5 Minutes? Something like that?

THanks,
RIch

[shiyan]

umm... not sure, but I wouldn't take chances with such an expensive processor.

best thing is to fix your vapo's boot prevention system first. 2~3 minutes without cooling sounds quite risky.

[TC]

It should hold the mobo in reset until it cools down, but either way your cpu won't burn up - a P4 has built in thermal protection. It will throttle itself if it gets too hot.

[PatrickBateman]

I don't think P4s throttle (slow down, I assume you mean) anymore. They just shut down entirely along with the system.

But, without the thermal protection (thankfully you can't do this) the thing would probably compeltely fry itself in about 10 seconds (faster with load), and proceed to cook your motherboard a few short seconds after that.

[David]

A P4 with no cooling would probably last less than 10 seconds if you powered it on - the initial load when starting up will heat it up quite quickly.

However, as was pointed out, P4s throttle (or at least the P4As do, as in the THG video) back if they overheat. So basically the PC will run a bit slower until the cooling kicks in.

[deathman20]

All P4's have a thermal throttle. Even in the BIOS there is at least in Abit boards a warning and shutdown tempature. I know my 2.4B has a throttle control in it. Accidently tested it one day :). Still works great as normal but it all depends on how much voltage you are putting through it because that can change the sensor characteristics from throttling at the correct level.

My CPU went up to 80C then backed off and started to cool down (forgot to turn on the pump one day). Ever since I have also tried out the bios shutdown temp and also my Hardware Monitor software to test and make sure that it would shutdown if it gets to hot again.

I set windows 5C lower then what its set in the bios because if the program fails by chance the bios catches it. Works out really well too on the IC7-G.

[PatrickBateman]

a P4 3.2 is a 'C' and it doesn't throttle like the 'A's & 'B's. There is a newer TomsHardware video that shows it powering-off just like the new AMDs do.
Yes, Asus also has this temperature slow-down feature, but it's no longer an on-board feature of the CPU (AFAIK).

but back to the subject. I think the biggest problem having a Vapochill that doesn't completely cool the CPU before powering it up is that the system would likely crash because its too warm (not frigid enough).

[CrashOv3r1De]

Yes the P4C has throttle. I noticed that my HSF cord was not connected to mobos jumper about 25sec later. Touched the CPU and it was very hot. but when I connected the hsf and powered on the cpu was fine. not a single hiccup!

richklein, I have dealt with the VapoChill and P4C800 Deluxe before and they are incompatible. In some cases the Vapo will hold the mobo in reset but mostly it does not. You can read about this in the motherboards section of http://forum.vapochill.com/

I would strongly suggest ebaying the P4C800 Deluxe and getting your self a Abit IC7-G Max III and doing a small wire mod to get it to work with vapochill.

[PatrickBateman]

by "throttle" I mean that the CPU slowing down (running at 1.6GHz, 100MHz, and such) on overheats (see the TomsHardware videos). I don't mean that it doesn't have protection, I mean that the CPU doesn't slow down, it stops.

[markodude]

Twice I have forgot to connect the CPU Fan, once on a 1.8A I left it running SETI for a week and no damage! That CPU is still fine today....on an Intel board. I wouldn't suggest it with a 3.2 though!

[NookieN]

Originally posted by PatrickBateman
by "throttle" I mean that the CPU slowing down (running at 1.6GHz, 100MHz, and such) on overheats (see the TomsHardware videos). I don't mean that it doesn't have protection, I mean that the CPU doesn't slow down, it stops.

I'm not sure which THG you've referring to; the only thermal protection video I see there is #1. But all P4's (Willamette and Northwood) have thermal protection in the form of throttling. I know the P4-Cs do as well because I've watched them do it.

Some motherboards have BIOS options that let you shut the system down before the processor reaches a throttling temperature. However the chip won't shut itself down until it reaches a temperature of 135C.

[racpuc]

video 8.. Its the one with the new amd64 and fx. It shows the 3.2 c

[Morbid]

What you need to do is go to the source. Go to Vapochill's forum. This has been an issue for a while and there's an easy fix for it. :)

[Burning Phoenix]

Here are some excerts from a PDF on at Intel.com:
ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/29864310.pdf

The Thermal Monitor feature helps control the processor temperature by activating the Thermal
Control Circuit (TCC) when the processor silicon reaches its maximum operating temperature. The
TCC reduces processor power consumption by modulating (starting and stopping) the internal
processor core clocks. The Thermal Monitor feature must be enabled for the processor to be
operating within specifications. The temperature at which Thermal Monitor activates the thermal
control circuit is not user configurable and is not software visible. Bus traffic is snooped in the
normal manner, and interrupt requests are latched (and serviced during the time that the clocks are
on) while the TCC is active.
When the Thermal Monitor feature is enabled, and a high temperature situation exists (i.e., TCC is
active), the clocks will be modulated by alternately turning the clocks off and on at a duty cycle
specific to the processor (typically 30–50%). Clocks often will not be off for more than 3.0 µs
when the TCC is active. Cycle times are processor speed dependent and will decrease as processor
core frequencies increase. A small amount of hysteresis has been included to prevent rapid active/
inactive transitions of the TCC when the processor temperature is near its maximum operating
temperature. Once the temperature has dropped below the maximum operating temperature, and
the hysteresis timer has expired, the TCC goes inactive and clock modulation ceases.

If automatic mode is disabled the processor will be operating out of specification. Regardless of
enabling of the automatic or On-Demand modes, in the event of a catastrophic cooling failure the
processor will automatically shut down when the silicon has reached a temperature of
approximately 135 °C. At this point the system bus signal THERMTRIP# will go active and stay
active until RESET# has been initiated. THERMTRIP# activation is independent of processor
activity and does not generate any bus cycles. If THERMTRIP# is asserted, processor core voltage
(VCC) must be removed within 0.5 seconds.

[NookieN]

Originally posted by racpuc
video 8.. Its the one with the new amd64 and fx. It shows the 3.2 c

I think you mean video 10. I still suspect that they had a failsafe bios option set to shut the computer down. But if you yank the heatsink off of a heavily loaded 3.2Ghz processor (with 2M of cache) it could reach 135C (or the bios trip) pretty quickly, even with throttling. If you simply stop the fan on the heatsink, the newest P4s will still throttle.

[AZN]

as mentioned numorous times I would get the issue fixed with powering on. about the cpu and heat, well without a HSF or the IHS the cpu will die almost instantly maybe 5-10 seconds and im guessing your voltage is pretty high with a very high OC so yes it will die fast without no cooling. BUT, the CPU has a IHS and a nice good size block of copper (the vapo) on the cpu so no it wont heat up in 10 seconds and fry itself. just the IHS alone is a very big help and with the vapo block on that will help out termendously but 2-3 mins is quite sometime without cooling. I like to know if it takes that long to cool how do you even get past post or windows? just try and get the issue fixed or have your vapo and board power on totally seprate and u manually start each one.

[DrSpanky]

ive been reading the intel documentation

thermal throttleing only works if its set in bios
the same with normal thermal shutdown if all of these fail
when the silocone heat limmit is met thats about 135°c then the cpu kicks in its own thermal trip switch then the cpu is held in reset mode hehehe to disable this im sure u could remove pin a2 and that should do the trick

so with all teh safty stuff im use it wont die unless you stop TT and TS and remove pin a2

[wannaoc]

I would give it.........oh wait there it went, I was going to say a few seconds. :D

[Ganesh Jadu]

Well I can run my P4 2.8B overclocked to 3.5ghz without the fan running on my Zalman, it gets hot, but the volts of the cpu throttle down.

I have tested this in Windows Desktop with the Corecenter program, if it's running at high volts and the temp is high then it starts unvolting itself down to 1.40 volts that's the lowest volts my cpu can run at.

I done this without the fan working on my Zalman. I can test it without the heatsink, but I am not to crazy about it.:D