News: The 2 Tards that Killed people and blamed GTA

[Lazlo Panaflex]

update on the thread we had a while ago,

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=5553

Families sue for $246 million because of GTA3 >> 05:14 PM - Marcus Yam
(Post a comment)

The holy crusade against "new wave entertainment" continues. At first, it was rock 'n' roll, then it was television. These days, it's video games. A $246 million lawsuit was filed against the designer, marketer and a retailer of the video game series "Grand Theft Auto" by the families of two people shot by teenagers apparently inspired by the game, reports the Associated Press.

Aaron Hamel, 45, a registered nurse, was killed and Kimberly Bede, 19, of Moneta, Va., was seriously wounded when their cars were hit June 25 by .22-caliber bullets as they passed through the Great Smoky Mountains.

Stepbrothers William Buckner, 16, and Joshua Buckner, 14, of Newport, were sentenced in August to an indefinite term in state custody after pleading guilty in juvenile court to reckless homicide, endangerment and assault.

The boys told investigators they got the rifles from a locked room in their home and decided to randomly shoot at tractor-trailer rigs, just like in the video game "Grand Theft Auto III."

The lawsuit targets Sony, for providing the gaming platform, Take-Two for publishing the game, and Wal-Mart for selling Grand Theft Auto. One of the leading attorneys of the plaintiffs is Jack Thompson, who has a history of laying the blame on video games whenever possible.

Thompson has made similar claims in the past and lost, notably a $33 million lawsuit against video game makers stemming from the 1997 school shooting near Paducah, Ky., by a 14-year-old boy.

The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in the case last year that it was "simply too far a leap from shooting characters on a video screen to shooting people in a classroom."

Before you go vote in our front page poll and vent your views in the comments, read this Games to Blame piece from a gaming father and this follow-up article discussing why some games are Rated M for Mature.

[Falcon-K]

where were the parents? i have played every single first person shooter out there almost, half life, halo, perfect dark, doom series, duke nukem, soldier of fortune II, quake III, unreal, battlefield, moh...ect and i have not shot anyone....why? because i had parents who were actually there parenting me throughout my life and thats why im not a moron like these two little ****s are...the kids are just as much to blame as the parents...they should not look at the glaring problem that america is having...****ty ass parenting...this ****es me off so much its not even funny.

sorry if anyone is offended by my remarks but i just needed to vent..

[Phoenix87]

Its ok. Its not your fault that you killed a person and seriously injured another!

[Steven4563]

i agree with Falcon-K ive played some many first person shooters and i dont kill anyone the parents should off brought them up better isnt GTA3 for 18's and over y did the parents get it for them then

[YellowDart]

*pats unibomber on back* It's ok... I'm sure you killed all of those people because you got Space Invaders and reality confused.

[john240sx]

i've said it once and i'll probably say it a few dozen more times. those kids were messed up way before they even knew what a videogame was. blaming videogames is just a scape goat for bad parents.

1) they were playing an M rated game (which they could not have obtained without an adult)
2) the guns must not have been too secure, a properly stored gun (ei: a gun safe) would be virtually impossible for someone to get into before getting caught.
3) didn't understand the consecquences of fireing a weapon at another person (something that MUST be taught to everyone that lives in a house with atleast 1 firearm)

i could go on for a while but those point directly to the parents.

[Chris_F]

where were the parents? i have played every single first person shooter out there almost, half life, halo, perfect dark, doom series, duke nukem, soldier of fortune II, quake III, unreal, battlefield, moh...ect and i have not shot anyone....why? because i had parents who were actually there parenting me throughout my life and thats why im not a moron like these two little ****s are...the kids are just as much to blame as the parents...they should not look at the glaring problem that america is having...****ty ass parenting...this ****es me off so much its not even funny.

Amen.

Games don't kill, bad parenting does.

[itizme]

And I thought popping someone in the head with a rocket launcher online kept me sane, change that statement, I know it does!
btw I have no problem when my kids frag!!

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Agree with all you guys about the kids being stupid and all, but i bet the case is probably going to come down to "would those kids have killed if they hadnt played GTA?" and they might not have to be honest, who knows.

[Grande Juan]

I guess that's why it's rated M, so as not to warp their fragile little eggshell minds. Why are they playing this game? I'm with Falcon-K, played all those games, don't have a gun in the house and don't feel like going on a murder spree ever! Much less kill someone for little or no reason. However having played GTA3 for hours on end, afterward I really feel like jack'n a cop car.

[Aslan]

Originally posted by Falcon-K
where were the parents? i have played every single first person shooter out there almost, half life, halo, perfect dark, doom series, duke nukem, soldier of fortune II, quake III, unreal, battlefield, moh...ect and i have not shot anyone....why? because i had parents who were actually there parenting me throughout my life and thats why im not a moron like these two little ****s are...the kids are just as much to blame as the parents...they should not look at the glaring problem that america is having...****ty ass parenting...this ****es me off so much its not even funny.

sorry if anyone is offended by my remarks but i just needed to vent..

Yep, Agreed completely. Those two kids "inspired" by GTA 3 obviously had problems to begin with. It's just easier to blame the video game, rather than forcing the parents to hold some accountability. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the plaintiffs in this lawsuit win some money out of this....

[Onizuka]

Sigh how can kids be such morons? Damn when i was younger I played all kinds of games including GTA 1 among others. I never ever had a thought about going out and recreating something I had seen in a game. Me, my cousin, and my friends did all kinds of bootleg ***** but nothing that ever hurt anyone on purpose.

[Jawsome]

we need a new type of killer. The serial bad-parent killer. He just kills bad parents, and everyone including law enforcement can just look the other way.

I'm a genius.

[El-Scotto]

really some people....

[rugbyroy]

People just like the fact that video games are an easy scape goat. Nobody wants to face the fact obvious fact that parenting is going downhill as fast as two thirds of marriages in America do...

[Tyranos]

When a human commits murder or does something bad, its natural for gold diggers and ignorant to point at guns, video games, music, the devil, cows, anything because they're too dense to see it was the way the parents brought them up, or they were just mentally instable to begin with. The truth is, if the kids weren't mental, and the parents raised them well, there would be two fine and dandy people alive and doing well right now. In fact, they probably wouldn't have to even worry about them having access to firearms if they were taught right.

[sixshot666]

Originally posted by itizme
And I thought popping someone in the head with a rocket launcher online kept me sane, change that statement, I know it does!
violent games are awsome to take out some frustration.:bang head
i play postal2 and it has a warning that shows up before
the game loads.and if you havent watched bowling for columbine
you need to watch it.

[bsspewer]

Originally posted by john240sx
i've said it once and i'll probably say it a few dozen more times. those kids were messed up way before they even knew what a videogame was. blaming videogames is just a scape goat for bad parents.

1) they were playing an M rated game (which they could not have obtained without an adult)
2) the guns must not have been too secure, a properly stored gun (ei: a gun safe) would be virtually impossible for someone to get into before getting caught.
3) didn't understand the consecquences of fireing a weapon at another person (something that MUST be taught to everyone that lives in a house with atleast 1 firearm)

i could go on for a while but those point directly to the parents.

here's my thoughts:

Firstly, I believe the kids had something wrong long before they even played the game. True, a game/movie might seem to help, but in reality the kid has already thought of it and wanted to do it, the game/movie is just a name they can call it. Secondly, I believe every child should learn the importance of a gun. Take them out and let them fire a few rounds to show them the power and safety in a gun. If you can, I would take them hunting when they're abit older to show them the true power and try teaching them the fragility and importance of life.

[Tyranos]

Originally posted by bsspewer


here's my thoughts:

Firstly, I believe the kids had something wrong long before they even played the game. True, a game/movie might seem to help, but in reality the kid has already thought of it and wanted to do it, the game/movie is just a name they can call it. Secondly, I believe every child should learn the importance of a gun. Take them out and let them fire a few rounds to show them the power and safety in a gun. If you can, I would take them hunting when they're abit older to show them the true power and try teaching them the fragility and importance of life.


I agree. For children, teaching them thoroughly about firearm safety, firearms, etc will not only make them respect the object, but GREATLY reduce the chance of accidents as well. As for mentally unstable children with the capacity for violence such as murder, they will act violently regardless, educated or uneducated.

[flixotide]

I can for a fact add to the point of bad parents... not that mine were / are distinctly bad, but when it comes to analyzing youth problems (in this case also my own), many parents tend to look at everything but themselves...

Even hidden and subconscious things, acting and relations can have a dramatic effect.

To a distinct factor today, we see more and more young people suffering from depression, even though they get a richer and more varied lifestyle than many earlier generations... But fact is, materialism in any of its kinds, have a much much smaller effect on the outcome of youth problems, than family-life.

We're talking even very small, to some people insignificant things, that can cause kids to take drugs, steal, behave violently... it doesn't take a family-feud or divorce for it to happen, it can happen to ANYONE, even from the base of very small things.

People who start blaming things without a proper analysis, without being truly objective, and aiming their eyes at themselves, are amongst the people that cause the problem.

Cheers, Flix

[moorcito]

Welcome to the new era that we live in. While this isn't a new phenomenon, it just further illustrates the growing desire for people to push the blame on to others for their "bad" actions. Although, watching violent movies, video games, violence in real life can desensitize a person they still have to make that choice to kill or not kill.

Better parenting, and less blaming is the only solution to this problem. No ammount of sueing, legislation, bans, etc. will replace a parent (which in most cases can have almost total control over their child).

[Bensa]

Only in the US of A. (Not being offensive to Americans, especially to the members of this forum who probably are above average intelligence.)

The people would have been laughed out of court in most countries. I don't think they have any real backing for their case except human error (or plain stupidity).

[rugbyroy]

I agree Bensa. It seems that many americans today are too american.. As a country our heads are too far up our own butts to realize what's going on, and if any solution is easier than the best solution, we take it.

[DDR-PIII]

any moron can go kill people and blme it on a game, i mena... what kiinda moron cant tell the difference.

[eh?]

This is so stupid. The amount of stupid people in the world absolutely amazes me. When will people learn that there is violence in the world with out games, TV, and music?
What video game was Hitler playing when he decided to eradicate all the Jewish people in Germany? Or what movie what that KKK member watching when he decided to gun people down from the clock tower on campus?


Unbelievable.

[deathman20]

It's amazing I've played almost every game under the moon, and well have no feeling for killing people or myself for a matter of fact. It is the parents fault for this. Either they whern't paying attention to there kids that much and didn't really care what they did (my parents where like this but at least they cared), or the parents worked full time jobs and neglectied the kids.

Its sad really what people blame, the people that where shot/killed shouldn't be going after the gaming companies because do they really think that they will really win? They should go after the parents of the kids and the kids themselfs. Sure you might not get much money out of it but I'm sorry people anyone that can sue something its always about the money and not what it really is all about.

[Sterculus]

I've played many many video games, including many first person shooters, and the Grand Theft Auto series. I've also watched many violent movies. As with everyone else here, I've never had any sort of tendency to kill someone, or try to imitate a game. As a whole society we need to look at OTHER causes, not just what is the easiest to blame. I agree that the parents are the most likely cause for this kind of thing.

[DayUSeX]

its really sad when people just blame **** on video games, hell then again if i was going to die i would blame everythign i could, still games dont do **** unless you are very beyond disturbed to beign with.

[Falcon-K]

yea its not like murder is a new thing...I wonder if people sued religeon back in the crusades:rolleyes:

[rugbyroy]

Reminds me of that time that chick killed a guy, then got off it scott free because she was raggin it.

[Robrules18]

the kids probably had mental or pshychatric problems that are a result of today's harsh standards on children, keeping with the "cool" thing being Mr. Class of**, meeting parental demands... They probably needed help but couldnt afford to show it or ask for it without facing social meltdown... these times we live in...

[Cuda]

[Prepared for a REAMING after this post]

Every one is so quick to judge and blame the parents in this case. How about, just for a second, we blame those responsible? A couple of ignorant children murdered an innocent person and severly wounded another. Video games are to blame? Right. And just what video games was Ted Bundy playing when he murdered more than thirteen women? For that matter, were the the Menendez brothers playing BF 1942 before they slaughtered their parents?

Let's get real, children live in a fantasy world today. They are allowed to be pierced and tattooed where ever they wish, there is no repercussion for teen pregnancy, they wear their pants around their ass, need I go on?

Corpral punishment has been removed from our schools and from our homes. If we smack our kids back into line like our parents did, we can be sued for "child abuse". The safety net has been removed. The worst is yet to come.

In my opinion, bring back corpral punishment, put the power back into the parents hands, and execute the ignorant *******s who murder because they want to be cool.

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Let's get real, children live in a fantasy world today. They are allowed to be pierced and tattooed where ever they wish, there is no repercussion for teen pregnancy, they wear their pants around their ass, need I go on?

oh come on, what does this have to do with murder?

Piercings and tatooes have been happening since the EGYPTIAN ERA, so that has nothing to do with it. Pants down to there ass? whos to say that is a more shocking trend than, leather jackets were? (sounds like you just personally dont like it) I agree with you on the pregnancy part. That whole part of your argument is pretty weak.

[Falcon-K]

Originally posted by Cuda
[Prepared for a REAMING after this post]

If we smack our kids back into line like our parents did, we can be sued for "child abuse". The safety net has been removed. The worst is yet to come.

In my opinion, bring back corpral punishment, put the power back into the parents hands, and execute the ignorant *******s who murder because they want to be cool.


umm i agree partly with the capital punishment but i dont think we necsacarily need to have parental abuse, i was never beaten as a kid and im pretty nice, go with the flow person

[Ad Rock]

There seems to be a common theme in society today. Nothing is ever my fault. I am fat because McDonald’s sells fattening food, I am violent and lazy because I watch suggestive shows on TV and I kill innocent people because I play video games. Why would someone ever want to blame themselves, when they can blame a faceless person and have others back you up. People need to start looking in the mirror and becoming accountable for their actions. Until this happens we are just going to keep blaming everyone else.

[GOD Macktruck]

wow, the 16 year old murders someone and still is in juvy. all my brother did was steal 4-wheelers when he was 16 and they decided he was an adult for that sh**. what ever happened to equality?

when i have kids of my own i'm planning on introducing them to games correctly. mario series, tetris, all the classics that i have laying around. they actually have game play that helps teach kids coordination. then when they are about 10 or so i will let them play whatever the modern games will be.

dont forget to teach kids about gun controll and all. do what my dad did, take me out to go shooting when i was 7, first thing i try to shoot is a 12-guage, let's just say i didn't pick it up again till i was 11. but i can rain hell with a rifle(safely i might add)

: ) :

[ShadowCat66]

Its all about choices we make,and knowing right from wrong.Not all but alot of young people and adults have no fear or compassion for anyone.Thats just a shame.While I never had thoughts of killing anyone what kept me in line from doing things I KNEW where wrong was what was going to happen when my Dad got home.Call it fear or respect,I dont think there is much of a difference when you are very young and your eyeballing that nice new toy on the shelf with empty pockets.While I dont have all the answers,I have raised 2 children pretty much on my own.My daughter will be 19 very soon and wants to be a nurse and my son,13,Has all the skills to be anything he wants to be.Both have played games,some I had worried about,but I had faith in what I have drillled into there heads since they where born that they would make the right choices.So far they have,and I have no doubt that they will continue to do so,Why?,because I will always be there when they need me.

Choices are not just for the young adults but for adults.I choose to be a part of my childrens lives,let them make all the choices on there own and well........Topics like this are discussed

[El-Scotto]

I dont think the problem is just poor parenting, i believe its all authority figure's like teacher's and what not, but even still at 16 you know that shooting a gun pointed at cars on a highway is bad. While it might be the parents fault to some point I think it mostly is the kid's fault and the parents are just to ignorant to see this.

[Bigdogbmx]

Piercings and tatooes have been happening since the EGYPTIAN ERA, so that has nothing to do with it. Pants down to there ass? whos to say that is a more shocking trend than, leather jackets were? (sounds like you just personally dont like it) I agree with you on the pregnancy part. That whole part of your argument is pretty weak.

I think he has a point in some ways, not so much about the tattoos and stuff but as far as discipline in general look at a school now. The worst thing they ever do is suspend or expel you and that just means you are off school for a while which is what the kids want. You can push the limits much too far now without anything happening because of the public events that take the focus off it. Like if when some kid brought a baseball bat into my school and whecked another kid then walked out. Nothing major happened to him he was in school for a while after that.
By the way I dont think the parents are as much to blame as much as you think, some people are born loose in the head and no amount of smacking or good old fashioned family love fixes that.
Just to clear the air of any idea i am againt mentally ill people I suffer from a form of psycosis myself and I havent ever killed anyone and dont plan on doing it, even if I do spend hours 'virtually' killing peple and have done for years. I really think this sort of thing happens and you cant blame people because it probably wont stop happening.

[Mr. $T$]

I would not worry, Walmart has some deep pockets and will have the best attorney known to man, and in the end of this soon to be fiasco they will have to pocket attorneys fees and court room fees which they will probally be doing for the rest of there life.

[El-Scotto]

thing is though wal-mart, sony and rock star also have to pay to go to court for this to defend themselves...

[Sterculus]

On the legal side of these things, im suprised that game makers haven't written something about this sort of case into the EULA...like 'if you commit some crime and blame it on this game, we aren't responsible'

[jrbob]

Originally posted by bsspewer


here's my thoughts:

Firstly, I believe the kids had something wrong long before they even played the game. True, a game/movie might seem to help, but in reality the kid has already thought of it and wanted to do it, the game/movie is just a name they can call it. Secondly, I believe every child should learn the importance of a gun. Take them out and let them fire a few rounds to show them the power and safety in a gun. If you can, I would take them hunting when they're abit older to show them the true power and try teaching them the fragility and importance of life.


My son is 9, I gave him his first shooting lession at the age of 4 with my old BB gun, he now has his own BB gun and we go shooting 10-12 times a year.
I hunt upland game birds and deer in the fall so I have a 270 and a 12ga shot gun haning on the of our family room. I do not have to worry about then being messed with because anytime he asks to go shooting we go.
I think that people that blame video games that kids play on the violent crimes that thay commit need to be locked up with them, because thouse stupid people do not need to be walking the streets. :mad:

[Über~PhLuBB]

When GTA3 first came out and I played through a few missions, I went on a drive and went as fast as I could, slamming into every car in my way. I rammed cars into light poles and made some spin out. I ran over pedestrians between hitting cars too. *splat*

Then I got out, and jacked a beat up pickup truck so I could do the same thing, but be more sucessful at it.

So then I got sick of hitting cars and got out, cocked my M16 and started shooting civillians. I ran through parks and malls and through the streets, but it was all brought to an end when I tried to run down into a parking garage ramp and flew 20 ft straight forward, fell and broke my legs.

I lay there bleeding until the police arrived and detained me. "BUSTED!" When asked why I did these things, I simply said "Because I saw it in GTA3!" When asked where I got the M16, I said "I stashed my baseball bat behind my back, then I pulled it from thin air behind my back."

Are people really stupid enough to believe that? I guess so. =\

Leiberman is a fool, as is anyone else who believes these children do NOT suffer from abnormal thought patterns (read: are freaking NUTS).

[Bigdogbmx]

Well said. I think I saw you that day by the way do you have brown hair and shades?

[Malpine Walis]

I am with Mr. $T$, El-Scotto and Sterculus on this. Whatever else was going on in the warped minds of those kids, the lawsuit really has, at best, a tenuous connection with violent games or the tragedy that befell their victims.

There is a trend in society these days to find a scapegoat with deep pockets and see if the courts will shake the money tree until some falls off. The driving force is all the news items about how juries sometimes go overboard and award millions to people who have made a tenuous connection to the deep-pocketed defendants. If there were no obvious defendant, no attorney would play that particular lottery.

One example that comes to mind:

The tobacco lawsuit. Despite everything that is known about the harmful effects of smoking, the big tobacco corporations have lots of money so they become a target for the “Back up the Brinks truck” mentality. Part of the argument is that smokers cost the states money for their medical care when they have run through their own money. However, that particular argument collapses when you consider the costs to states from non-smokers, who live longer on average, and go on to develop more expensive health care issues. Yet if we are to lay blame at the feet of those responsible, should not the smokers themselves pay the cost? What of the tobacco farmers who grow the stuff? How about the nation’s truckers who move tobacco from one state to another?

Unfortunately, while there are many more groups who could be asked to bear the costs, they do not have the deep pockets that are the driving force behind a lawsuit of that nature. RJ Reynolds does have deep pockets so there is a queer legal logic that holds that they bear greater responsibility.

Today video gaming companies are making enough money on their products that they can spend years working on the next great project so they become a target for special legal treatment. As long as there have been video games, there have been a few titles that had questionable subject matter. I remember back in the early days of computer gaming there was a title called “fire bug” where points were scored by committing arson and by assaulting firefighters who were trying to do their job. Yet there was no really big pile of money behind the programmers so there was no $100,000,000 lawsuit.

Back then, the scapegoat of the day was the music industry, who it was argued were somehow complicit in inciting violence in their fans. When saner head prevailed, the courts tossed most of the lawsuits into the deep hole where they belonged. Along the way there were a few silly verdicts that came out of that round of “blame anyone as long as they have money”. If memory serves, there was a judge in Colorado who ruled that Judas Priest was responsible for backwards messages on some album even if the messages were not intentionally put there but rather originated simply because a fertile imagination can make sense of random sounds. That verdict was overturned on appeal and the plaintiffs ran out of money to pursue the matter.

[OC Noob]

I'm going to go have sex with a hooker. Then I'm going to sue Rockstar when I get an STD:D

[bsspewer]

Originally posted by jrbob

My son is 9, I gave him his first shooting lession at the age of 4 with my old BB gun, he now has his own BB gun and we go shooting 10-12 times a year.
I hunt upland game birds and deer in the fall so I have a 270 and a 12ga shot gun haning on the of our family room. I do not have to worry about then being messed with because anytime he asks to go shooting we go.
I think that people that blame video games that kids play on the violent crimes that thay commit need to be locked up with them, because thouse stupid people do not need to be walking the streets. :mad:

I'm glad to see that it works. It will be what I do whenever I have children.

What lots of people neglect to mention or notice, is that everybody is endowed with a conscience, and we live by our choices. Nobody is capable of making a choice for us. Whatever a person does is solely based on what they have decided to do. Granted, they may have liked the game/movie/song and wanted to imitate it, but eventually they were faced with a choice of whether to proceed with the action, in full knowledge of what the consequence was going to be, or to simply obey society's laws and morals and refrain from doing such a malicous act.

So, in retrospect, parents are not to blame either. The blame is solely based upon the children that committed the crime. The only role the parents had in this incident is they failed to impregnate their kids with the knowledge and wisdom on how to make right choices.

one last thought, this thread has quickly become a political discussion, and could continue indefinatly. As stated in the forum rules, threads like this are not allowed and henceforth I believe should be halted.

[Bensa]

Originally posted by OC Noob
I'm going to go have sex with a hooker. Then I'm going to sue Rockstar when I get an STD:D

You do that. Tell us how much you make.

[OcLinNoob]

hahahaha.

[El-Scotto]

well i agree teaching kids about guns could help but i dont a thing about gun's never shot one never held one. my parents never really talked about anything like that either, but yet i know right from wrong, and i know that real life and a video game are different....i blame the kids they should be trialed as adults especially th 16 year old... its just sad....

[Amino]

Originally posted by Lazlo Panaflex
the case is probably going to come down to "would those kids have killed if they hadnt played GTA?"

It should also come down to "would the kids have shot those people if the parents had obeyed the Game-Rating, or if they had taught them right from wrong, or if the guns were safely stored, or if they didn't actually have the guns?"

I mean, if you own a gun, even if you don't use it, that means that there is an instument of violence, capable of killing people, in your house. I know it's an American's right to own a gun, but not if they don't teach their children not to shoot random people with it. Those parents don't deserve to be parents if they couldn't stop their children from shooting at people.

But it really isn't the parents' fault. It's the KIDS' fault. I can't really remember more than one time my parents had to tell me that playing with guns is a bad thing. I prety much figured it out myself, WITHOUT killing people. These kids are obviously slow. They were ages 16 and 14. Who at 14 doesn't know that shooting at people will result in terrible, life changing/ending consequences? And at 16??? For God's sake! Those children need to be institutionalized at the least! One of them is old enough to drive and he doesn't know not to shoot at people?

So they hire some high price lawyer, Jack Thompson, to get them some money. Hell, the way this world is turning out, everyone is going to start killing people and blaming it on video games. You could make a "killing!"

Give me a break Mom and Dad Buckner. Face up to your lack of parenting... And boys... ask your parents about the real world. And I'm not talking about the stuff they talk about in the Matrix...

Stupid, stupid people.

[Mr. $T$]

Originally posted by Über~PhLuBB
When GTA3 first came out and I played through a few missions, I went on a drive and went as fast as I could, slamming into every car in my way. I rammed cars into light poles and made some spin out. I ran over pedestrians between hitting cars too. *splat*

Then I got out, and jacked a beat up pickup truck so I could do the same thing, but be more sucessful at it.

So then I got sick of hitting cars and got out, cocked my M16 and started shooting civillians. I ran through parks and malls and through the streets, but it was all brought to an end when I tried to run down into a parking garage ramp and flew 20 ft straight forward, fell and broke my legs.

I lay there bleeding until the police arrived and detained me. "BUSTED!" When asked why I did these things, I simply said "Because I saw it in GTA3!" When asked where I got the M16, I said "I stashed my baseball bat behind my back, then I pulled it from thin air behind my back."

Are people really stupid enough to believe that? I guess so. =\

Leiberman is a fool, as is anyone else who believes these children do NOT suffer from abnormal thought patterns (read: are freaking NUTS).

WORD!

It is all a money ride, nothing else. It is another act in the get rich quick sage of lazy people. The question is what next?

[acesea]

Originally posted by Cuda

Let's get real, children live in a fantasy world today. They are allowed to be pierced and tattooed where ever they wish, there is no repercussion for teen pregnancy, they wear their pants around their ass, need I go on?

Corpral punishment has been removed from our schools and from our homes. If we smack our kids back into line like our parents did, we can be sued for "child abuse". The safety net has been removed. The worst is yet to come.

In my opinion, bring back corpral punishment, put the power back into the parents hands, and execute the ignorant *******s who murder because they want to be cool.

To an extent I definately agree with you. I do not know about the rest of you, but even at my age of 20, having just past the 'teenage' years Ive been thru and seen my share of interesting characters, events, etc. The part that I would like to touch upon though is what I feel regarding how teenagers today, in contemporary American society (moreso than other societies/cultures that Ive seen) are 'brought up'... well, just inapropriately.
I do not wish to start spitting out any philosophy at the moment, but nonetheless bear with me, and dont flame me as its 3:40 am right now and I feel pressed to make this post. ;) Alright, in general, the rule of the golden mean is applicable to a lot of things, even life in general as well as issues. Briefly all it is, is a saying that one should live moderately, stay in the middle, don't take too much, or too little...etc. What this ties into is I feel that overall there are certain ideas, values that have been instilled into the American youth moreso than others, to such a point that they overshadow important traits. This has come about thanks to bad parenting, the media, school system, just really all types of sources where teens and youth interact.

Now I would like to get into the specificis. As Cuda says, there was a safety net that was removed that used to exist. From birth, one is in general brought up to think that his/her existence is the most important. He/she and his/her needs matter more, and come first before anything else. Being selfish isnt bad anymore, its recommended. Stemming from this, the children are givin SO MUCH leeway its ridiculous. I can go out on the town and spot a little kid, age 5, 6 dictating, no i mean practically yelling to there parents what he/she wants, where they want to go, what they want to do, or else! The parents might try and resist, then the kid will get ****ed off and flat out completely disobey the parent, not cooperate, and continue to believe that they should be able to do what they want..... you get the point. This is a very general scenario, not too thought out, but i see it all the time, wherever i go, and i believe many can relate to this. The child from the get go has his parents on the leash, dont get me wrong, i know parents always want to try and please there child, make it happy, etc. But there is line between appeasing someone, and doing what is right or what is called for. Dont get the wrong idea here, what I am saying is that most parents just dont know how to say NO, they dont know how to put there foot down, and this just leads to the child not respecting the parents, moreso this leads to lack of discipline, and most importantly these kids do not see and obey authority. How could they when they never had an authority figure in there entire life? The most rebellious peers i knew of that would get kicked out of there homes, those that heavily relied on drugs, did a lot of illegal activities, werent individuals who just happened to get on these bad paths due to bad luck or just one mistake. Most kids are confronted day to day with these types of choices, it is those who have an instilled sense of respect for others and of themselves, sense of understanding of the severity of these choices as well as what their choices are, and even just the sense of fear that if they get caught doing something bad they're in deep $h!t with there parents, or their school; jeez.. for me just the fact that my dad would kick my ass and kick me out of the house was good enough! But that select few, who have not been properlly exposed to these elements, well just dont care.

Going back to what Cuda mentioned, from the stories my father tells me being born in Europe, kids walked a tight rope. It was the unthinkable if you spoke back to your teacher. How could you, this was an educated person, person of authority, more importantly this was an adult. You stepped out of line, your knuckles would be the closest thing to bleeding and you would probably be laughed at by your classmates because you looked like a fool. Today, its the cool thing not to listen to your teacher. Changed just like that. How did that happen? Hmm, The student does something out of line, who is the teacher to tell him/her something? Shes not their parent? And even if that were the case, most teenagers dont even listen to there parent anymore anyway!? So thats like a double whammy. My father being raised by a strict system, this transcended over to the way he brought my sisters and I up. To this day, as mentioned in an earlier post by someone, Americans are stereotyped for behavior that would be consider 'out there' in other societies but is deemed acceptable here.

To sum it up, when an individual, even worse, when two such individuals get together and are faced with a set of situations each leading to the next, how is it that we can expect them to make the proper choices, the right choices. It are these individuals whom are a danger to society, let alone a danger to themselves, and all would be well, but when the parents believe that they had properly prepared their children to living in the 21st century in the USA and dealing with its day to day trials and tribulations furthermore, the parents themselves believing they are not responsible for what goes on in the home and the actions of such adolescence-- then what are the responsibilty of parents today? Parenting is a full time job, who will argue that a very large majority of the behaviors and actions of a child are in some way shape or form the product of the upbringing of the child thanks to the parents?

Accussing GTA3 and Rockstar games to be the only ones who are fully responsible for such a complex and terrible event provokes me to question whether such parents themselves are fit to live in our society, let alone raise kids in it.

p.s. sorry for the long post, im just ticked!

[flixotide]

Very good post... things today are simply too far out... laws and rights are not written to be practical, but are conceived as the child of a desk and pencil-neck... totally useless theory, too easy to abuse.

Furthermore, a lot of parents need to get their act together... A LOT.

I find too many parents think of having kids like having pets.. "Oh it could be so fun to have a kid"... FUN? well sure, there's fun allright, but also a huge deal of work.. and thats 20-25 years, 24x7... it never stops. Not at night, not while you polish shoes or play tennis... if the kid is there, you gotta stay aware of what your actions signal.

The worst things I witness, are parents that hardly care about their kids, but spend 18 hours at work, 6 hours sleeping. Well woohooo, what a great idea to have a kid then... NOT.

Anyways... gotta strain myself, otherwise I'll overload the forums...

Flix

[Gregory_WE]

Wow what retards... that really sucks, if they get any money out of this then that's just totally not right for the many reasons that have been already listed. The video game is not to blame.

[mrgreenjeans]

The one issue I've neglected to see raised is the issue of accountability, one of which our society has done of good job of eliminating from our singular and collective conscience. The tobacco settlements, the Enron scandals, and many more examples have made the news in recent years thereby augmenting the "just 'cause I knew Tobacco causes cancer and smoked anyway, it's still your fault, I'm dead and I'm suing you" attitude. Parents, teachers, and the country's leaders have unfortunately fostered this attitude and now we are beginning to see the results of our teachings. Until we all start, and by all I encompass the collective conscience of our society, to accept the resposibilty for our actions, how can we expect the children of our soceity to behave any differently.
Excuse my meaderings. I think I'll go to a foreign land, assasinate it's leaders, eradicate it's citizens, ignore the directives of my peers and suffer no repercussions. What? I'm talking about 'Halo".
C ya!

[Cuda]

I would like to clarify a few things I said in my earlier post.

First, the pants around the ass remark. It was not meant to insult or degrade anybody. Rather, it was used to illustrate a point of teen rebellion. A reference was made to the wearing of leather jackets. A leather jacket is not an undergarment. Boxers are. Of course I don't like it. My 3 and 10 year old daughters don't need to see your underwear. Frankly, neither do I. But that is not the point. That entire arguement is taken out of the context of the original statement I made:

<quote>Let's get real, children live in a fantasy world today. They are allowed to be pierced and tattooed where ever they wish, there is no repercussion for teen pregnancy, they wear their pants around their ass, need I go on?</quote>

And even that quote is not completely what I meant. I know there are good kids out there that act responsibly. This forum is full of them. I almost wonder if the number of "under 21's" doesn't equal or more likely out number the the "over 21's". And I'm sure that a number of them enjoy sporting their drawers in public. The question is why? Don't miss the philosofical aspect of that question. Leather jackets have been around since man first learned to skin mammals. Only in the last few years has public underwear modeling been accepted.
Don't leave, I'm getting to the point here. Certain aspects of teen behavior are not really accepted, but more like tolerated. The reason is because discipline has been removed from the parents arsenal yet the expectation of the public in general is that kids should be raised with good moral standards.
Does the phrase spare the rod, spoil the child mean anything anymore? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a propenant of child abuse for Pete sake, but if my kid tells me to f**k off, I firmly believe in a smack in the mouth. Fortunately, I have never had to face that circumstance with any of my four daughters, but I seen many parents who have.
One mother in particular. I asked her why she put up with it. Do you know what she said? She smacked her daughter in the mouth and was investigated be childrens services for abuse because her daughter turned her in.
In a personal incident, when my oldest girl was a sophmore in high school 2 years ago, a male classmate decided to pull her shorts down in gym class as a prank. My daughter was too ashamed to tell me about it but her best friend did tell my wife. I went straight to the school in a total fury. The school had given the boy a "verbal warning" and a write up. When I threatened to file a criminal proceeding he was SUSPENDED for one week. He then threatened to beat the crap out of my girl for ratting on him. I found the boy at a local hang-out and took him up by the shirt and told him that if he didn't leave my daughter alone, I was going to kick his ass like he deserved. I did a night in jail for assult. He got nothing for sexual harassment.
My point is, kids today are subject to NO realism of punishment, and are given a free ride hiding behind todays wimpy government regulations which took away parents and school officials ability to punish children and the even more disgusting attitude todays society in general takes towards the ever decreasing spiral the behavior of our youth is taking.
Don't blame the parent, for their hands are tied, don't blame the video game, for they are out for the profit and have no control over what their customers do,

blame the ignorant fools who pulled the trigger.

Why do teens wear their pant's around their ass? Because they can, and nobody can say a damn thing about it, not even their parents.

[Gregory_WE]

"Why do teens wear their pant's around their ass? Because they can, and nobody can say a damn thing about it, not even their parents."

I don't wear them that low, but having them up where you're supposedly suppose to have them is just way too uncomfortable. You don't see my boxers when I bend over or something though. I agree though, some people wear their pants way too low and it's really stupid. Just wearing your pants a little loose isn't something to worry about.

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Originally posted by Cuda
I would like to clarify a few things I said in my earlier post.

First, the pants around the ass remark. It was not meant to insult or degrade anybody. Rather, it was used to illustrate a point of teen rebellion. A reference was made to the wearing of leather jackets. A leather jacket is not an undergarment. Boxers are. Of course I don't like it. My 3 and 10 year old daughters don't need to see your underwear. Frankly, neither do I. But that is not the point. That entire arguement is taken out of the context of the original statement I made:

<quote>Let's get real, children live in a fantasy world today. They are allowed to be pierced and tattooed where ever they wish, there is no repercussion for teen pregnancy, they wear their pants around their ass, need I go on?</quote>

And even that quote is not completely what I meant. I know there are good kids out there that act responsibly. This forum is full of them. I almost wonder if the number of "under 21's" doesn't equal or more likely out number the the "over 21's". And I'm sure that a number of them enjoy sporting their drawers in public. The question is why? Don't miss the philosofical aspect of that question. Leather jackets have been around since man first learned to skin mammals. Only in the last few years has public underwear modeling been accepted.
Don't leave, I'm getting to the point here. Certain aspects of teen behavior are not really accepted, but more like tolerated. The reason is because discipline has been removed from the parents arsenal yet the expectation of the public in general is that kids should be raised with good moral standards.
Does the phrase spare the rod, spoil the child mean anything anymore? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a propenant of child abuse for Pete sake, but if my kid tells me to f**k off, I firmly believe in a smack in the mouth. Fortunately, I have never had to face that circumstance with any of my four daughters, but I seen many parents who have.
One mother in particular. I asked her why she put up with it. Do you know what she said? She smacked her daughter in the mouth and was investigated be childrens services for abuse because her daughter turned her in.
In a personal incident, when my oldest girl was a sophmore in high school 2 years ago, a male classmate decided to pull her shorts down in gym class as a prank. My daughter was too ashamed to tell me about it but her best friend did tell my wife. I went straight to the school in a total fury. The school had given the boy a "verbal warning" and a write up. When I threatened to file a criminal proceeding he was SUSPENDED for one week. He then threatened to beat the crap out of my girl for ratting on him. I found the boy at a local hang-out and took him up by the shirt and told him that if he didn't leave my daughter alone, I was going to kick his ass like he deserved. I did a night in jail for assult. He got nothing for sexual harassment.
My point is, kids today are subject to NO realism of punishment, and are given a free ride hiding behind todays wimpy government regulations which took away parents and school officials ability to punish children and the even more disgusting attitude todays society in general takes towards the ever decreasing spiral the behavior of our youth is taking.
Don't blame the parent, for their hands are tied, don't blame the video game, for they are out for the profit and have no control over what their customers do,

blame the ignorant fools who pulled the trigger.

Why do teens wear their pant's around their ass? Because they can, and nobody can say a damn thing about it, not even their parents.


ok, im seeing more eye to eye with you now Cuda, but i would like to still point out that chicks at my school were low cut pants and thongs, which = there asses hanging out whenever they sit down... and no teacher in there right mind is going to tell some fashinably contious CA girl the dress code rule. Just want to point out that its not just guys i guess that dress that way.

[Cuda]

I know I should quit, but I can't resist. I just re-read this entire thread again and it really p****s me off that people would even think of blaming solely the parents...bad parents...worthless parents...no good parents...terrible parenting. S**T FIRE. Is society so immune, have we as a people become so numb to the obvious that we have also become as blind as the political factions that removed corpral punishment from our schools? Shield the children...let them do as they want...don't spank that child...it makes me sick to my stomach. I was 14 in 1979, corpral punishment ruled the school halls and parents still ran their own house and raised their own kids. Neither I, nor any of my friends would ever consider back-talking an adult. Back then, even the neighbor was liable to put one up against your head if you got smart, then he would go and tell your folks and get you into even more trouble with you old man.
I challenge anybody to site a case of rampant teen killings such as we have seen in the past few years. It doesn't take a genius to see what changes have taken place in the past 25 years. If you must blame somebody, besides the murderous freaks who are actually to blame, then blame yourself and the status quo.

[Cuda]

Lazlo,
You are correct, and my observation and ravings were not meant to single out only guys. I appologize for that. Girls are just as guilty of the "kiss my ass, I'll do what I want" attitude. My generalizations were meant to apply to all teens but I admit that they did appear to single out males. I of all people should know that girls are just as bad these days as boys. My oldest, the sophmore mentioned earlier is now a senior. She is planning on getting married in December, after she turns 18. Her reason? I won't allow her to see her boyfriend without supervision after she admitted to having unprotected sex with him. I have always been there for my girls. They know that, but she also knows that I can do nothing about it. The entire situation infuriates me.

<edit>Just an added comment, it's not the dress style that gets me, it's the fact that it's done, because it can be done, with no fear of retribution for ones actions!

[Tyranos]

Well, the way certain people dress isn't a flawless example to explain your point. You shouldn't have to worry about "retributions for".. your.. "actions" because of the way you dress, even it if shows too much flesh, because not everyone's families were raised in the USA and/or carry the same types of views on life. Because you see someone's child dressing in a way that you object to, and you may THINK that they do it without consent, or care for what -you think- may be consequences that they seem not to fear does not mean that you know every one of those children's situations. Some of them may do it like you describe, sure, but not all of them. Not all parents find certain things objectionable as you may. That in itself says that the child isn't nessessarily a bad kid in that regard, NOR does it say that the parent is bad. Not everyone is of the same single culture you experienced and you shouldn't pass judgement so swiftly. Just like religions to the objective, wrong is defined in the eye of the beholder.

Now, it seems that some favor controlling children and making them respect them by using physical means. Putting the child in fear of violence works superficially and initially (for some), fine, it also works for adults (like russian soldiers perhaps?). But what else do you think it does? And has it ever occurred to some that maybe the child has mental conditions and by hitting them it may be for the worse? So you'd smack around your own kid even when the US military doesn't beat the crap out of their soldiers (anymore, vietnam era was a different story)? You can teach a kid the concept of consequences without aggressive physical input! Children aren't brainless worms that only respond to physical pain. Children can have mental capacities that exceed adults in some cases! My own cousin had an IQ of over 170 when he was under 10 years old (and has dropped some, a phenomena seen in other children as well)! Do you think he had to be smacked around to teach him the ways of a good human? Even normal mentally fit children do not need that. How does a tyrant control a group of people? Fear. What kind of person raises their children to fear them because of physical pain? FEAR and respect are totally different words. Amazingly, there are other emotions and human conditions that can be just as or morseso efficient, but far more kind. How guttural is it that one would have to resort to simple blows because they simply don't have the capacity for any other action? The people who can't teach and control their children without hitting them just hasn't been taught themselves. How the hell are we going to truly advance as a race if people can't really use the brain that they have in any other way but to direct their limbs haphazardly? Every single great nation has used violence and fear for control of enemies, citizens, and family. And every nation has fallen just as this one will! Of course this concept isn't just the main reason why we always fail in our short history relative to this earth. But surely that is some of the larger flaws!

As for corpral punishment in schools, I absolutely hate and despise that idea. It makes me sick, and angers me quite thoroughly. NO ONE touches my child. I punish them, and only me. In other cultures and (or) times, the parent would have the right to KILL another adult (even teachers) that hit their child or otherwise did something overly offensive to them. Hell, all it does is give institution further pseudo parental powers negating respect the child may have just for the parent, thus hurting the parent's ability to teach. You think only killers and deranged abominations come from liberal dr. spoc households that spare the rod and "spoil" the child? No offense, but thats what I'm reading from the posts.

As for adolescent violent crime, why don't you talk to the FBI about that? Or the Dept of Justice? You know what they'll say? YES, violent adolescent crime rates have rose from the 70's. But guess what else they'll say? ADULT crime rates (those of the teen's parent's ages) have rose in an even higher percentage than that. The only reason someone might believe teenagers are going insane is because of media coverage! They make every RARE (and yes it is rare relative to every other blood shedding in this nation) incident seem like a maniacal crusade proportions blood bath. Even having said that, poverty is another factor. Teenagers are much more likely than adults to be in poverty, and its been shown that people in poverty are more likely to commit crimes. If the given groups of adults and adolescents are in economical parity, the teens violence rates are much lower than adults in their 20's and 30's. This is all coming from the FBI and Dept of Justice.

And, the world changes! Every generation of kids freak out and offend their previous generations, ever since anyone can remember.

Here's another thought. Who's sicker, the kids (who are mentally inadequate there is no doubt) that killed and wounded those two people, or their parents who are trying to become rich by capitalizing on their relative's misfortunes with obviously ignorant and despicable scapegoats? You know Manson benefited in his own sick way when he had his cronies commit those murders.

[Falcon-K]

cuda i do agree with you that the kids should be blamed for this, but i believe its both the parents and the kids fault..when you have a very loving, nuturing parental unit that lays down the law and tries hard to develop the kids into mature responsible adults the children usually become that, but when you grow up doing whatever you want to and are never really given the nuturing that all children need to become good people then they end up like these two morons.

[bsspewer]

guys, remember this is a GAMES forum. Lots of political talk in here.

and i'd like to point out the all mighty Maddox: (http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html)

http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/0103/MR-Maddox-beatkid4.jpg

[Rutkus]

just goes to show you that for every finger you point at someone there are 3 pointing back at you.

[Lazlo Panaflex]

Originally posted by Tyranos
Well, the way certain people dress isn't a flawless example to explain your point. You shouldn't have to worry about "retributions for".. your.. "actions" because of the way you dress, even it if shows too much flesh, because not everyone's families were raised in the USA and/or carry the same types of views on life. Because you see someone's child dressing in a way that you object to, and you may THINK that they do it without consent, or care for what -you think- may be consequences that they seem not to fear does not mean that you know every one of those children's situations. Some of them may do it like you describe, sure, but not all of them. Not all parents find certain things objectionable as you may. That in itself says that the child isn't nessessarily a bad kid in that regard, NOR does it say that the parent is bad. Not everyone is of the same single culture you experienced and you shouldn't pass judgement so swiftly. Just like religions to the objective, wrong is defined in the eye of the beholder.

Now, it seems that some favor controlling children and making them respect them by using physical means. Putting the child in fear of violence works superficially and initially (for some), fine, it also works for adults (like russian soldiers perhaps?). But what else do you think it does? And has it ever occurred to some that maybe the child has mental conditions and by hitting them it may be for the worse? So you'd smack around your own kid even when the US military doesn't beat the crap out of their soldiers (anymore, vietnam era was a different story)? You can teach a kid the concept of consequences without aggressive physical input! Children aren't brainless worms that only respond to physical pain. Children can have mental capacities that exceed adults in some cases! My own cousin had an IQ of over 170 when he was under 10 years old (and has dropped some, a phenomena seen in other children as well)! Do you think he had to be smacked around to teach him the ways of a good human? Even normal mentally fit children do not need that. How does a tyrant control a group of people? Fear. What kind of person raises their children to fear them because of physical pain? FEAR and respect are totally different words. Amazingly, there are other emotions and human conditions that can be just as or morseso efficient, but far more kind. How guttural is it that one would have to resort to simple blows because they simply don't have the capacity for any other action? The people who can't teach and control their children without hitting them just hasn't been taught themselves. How the hell are we going to truly advance as a race if people can't really use the brain that they have in any other way but to direct their limbs haphazardly? Every single great nation has used violence and fear for control of enemies, citizens, and family. And every nation has fallen just as this one will! Of course this concept isn't just the main reason why we always fail in our short history relative to this earth. But surely that is some of the larger flaws!

As for corpral punishment in schools, I absolutely hate and despise that idea. It makes me sick, and angers me quite thoroughly. NO ONE touches my child. I punish them, and only me. In other cultures and (or) times, the parent would have the right to KILL another adult (even teachers) that hit their child or otherwise did something overly offensive to them. Hell, all it does is give institution further pseudo parental powers negating respect the child may have just for the parent, thus hurting the parent's ability to teach. You think only killers and deranged abominations come from liberal dr. spoc households that spare the rod and "spoil" the child? No offense, but thats what I'm reading from the posts.

As for adolescent violent crime, why don't you talk to the FBI about that? Or the Dept of Justice? You know what they'll say? YES, violent adolescent crime rates have rose from the 70's. But guess what else they'll say? ADULT crime rates (those of the teen's parent's ages) have rose in an even higher percentage than that. The only reason someone might believe teenagers are going insane is because of media coverage! They make every RARE (and yes it is rare relative to every other blood shedding in this nation) incident seem like a maniacal crusade proportions blood bath. Even having said that, poverty is another factor. Teenagers are much more likely than adults to be in poverty, and its been shown that people in poverty are more likely to commit crimes. If the given groups of adults and adolescents are in economical parity, the teens violence rates are much lower than adults in their 20's and 30's. This is all coming from the FBI and Dept of Justice.

And, the world changes! Every generation of kids freak out and offend their previous generations, ever since anyone can remember.

Here's another thought. Who's sicker, the kids (who are mentally inadequate there is no doubt) that killed and wounded those two people, or their parents who are trying to become rich by capitalizing on their relative's misfortunes with obviously ignorant and despicable scapegoats? You know Manson benefited in his own sick way when he had his cronies commit those murders.


Very informative post Tyranos.

[solidsnakexix]

I still cant believe people try adn sue a game company over this. Is the money going to ease the pain. Fire up the generator and have a barbeque, the kids took a life and they new what they were doign was dangerous. An eye for an eye may be harsh, but people would smarten the hell up pretty quick. Its getting to the point where people will need to be liscenced to play games. The idiots are too busy pointing fingers that the tragedy gets lost in "We want money". That people think getting money will ease the pain is sickening. If the woman was suing for medical bills or soemthing thats one thing. But anymore than that is sick. Had the kids have shot a store clerk or someone else they would be tried for murder, and people would laugh at the videogaems ploy, but becasue you can shoot cars in GTA it all of a sudden becomes a scapegoat. The world needs to grow up. Saddest thing of all is the only way for them to stop this is to either ban or regulate games. And regulation wont wokr casue the kids say "Mommy/Daddy buy me this" and the parents do it. I apologize for the spelling adn grammer its late and this topic gets to me everytime i read. People need to be reminded that they are responsible for there actions, no matter who or waht gives you the idea, if you act on it your responsible!

-Snake

[JML]

Originally posted by Bensa
Only in the US of A. (Not being offensive to Americans, especially to the members of this forum who probably are above average intelligence.)

The people would have been laughed out of court in most countries.

Really, like the countries where you can't even play these games to begin with? We definetly are sue happy though, and our punishments for crimes are a joke. (or non-existent when it comes to kids) :rolleyes:

Anyways, the video game violence thing is so old. We all know its bullsh*t, and if you're killing people, its cause you're all ready ****ing insane, not cause you played a video game.

Yeah lots of people have killed and said it was because of video games. How many whackos have killed and said it was in the name of the Bible? A LOT. If we ban video games maybe we should ban the Bible, too.

[Falcon-K]

Originally posted by bsspewer
guys, remember this is a GAMES forum. Lots of political talk in here.
[/IMG]

i think that this has actually been a very good conversation about this...and since its game related i dont see a problem with it..

[Jawsome]

Originally posted by bsspewer
guys, remember this is a GAMES forum. Lots of political talk in here.

and i'd like to point out the all mighty Maddox: (http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html)

http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/0103/MR-Maddox-beatkid4.jpg

maddox is a genius.

[TommyHolly]

The Kids are to blame. The parents are also partly responsible for failing as parents. As far as responsibilty lies, the makers of the game are pretty far down the list behind many other factors.

[Falcon-K]

Originally posted by TommyHolly
The Kids are to blame. The parents are also partly responsible for failing as parents. As far as responsibilty lies, the makers of the game are pretty far down the list behind many other factors.

yea thats why i just dont get why its get the blame...i mean dont people think that maybe these retards were just well retarded? or that they had bad parents which helped to let these kids become what they are? I just dont get it. this country needs a wake up call.

[Phoenix87]

Because its always better to blame everyone else but yourself. Just like fat people sueing mcdonalds, they dont wanna hear its their own fault that they sit on their butts and pound away deepfried french fries so they blame mcdonalds.

But you are right, this country needs to wake up.

[Jawsome]

no, this country needs to pass laws so we can kill off the morons.

[bsspewer]

Originally posted by Jawsome
no, this country needs to pass laws so we can kill off the morons.

a quote i once saw:

The problem with America today is not crime, but it is stupidity. I'm not saying we should invoke capital punishment on morons, but we should remove the safety labels on everything and let the problem solve itself.

[Jawsome]

I'll agree with whomever said that.

[n17ikh]

Hmm... ANOTHER GTA-blamed killing? :rolleyes:

I have already spoken my views on this issue in another thread and I'll retype them when it isn't 3:45 AM... :p

But basically I said that these kids have some serious problems that need to be dealt with by a mental institution. Either that or they are insanely stupid to confuse reality with a video game.

On a side note, Wal-Mart could actually be partially to blame. I am 16 and bought Vice City 3 days ago with no supervision, and in fact I actually SAW the cashier's computer screen flash up in big letters, "Is customer 17?" and she pushed yes without checking my driver's license or other ID. :rolleyes:

Also, I haven't killed anyone yet. I'll keep you updated on that. :p

[snyper1982]

i cannot believe all the people who are so quick to pass judgement on the parents. it makes me sick. people are responsible for their own actions, plain and simple. i grew up in a VERY bad invironment. my mother and dad used to fight all the time, and i dont mean argue. drugs all the time, how many of you have ever seen your father do crank and sell drugs? or how many of you have woken up in the morning only to find the cops taking your father to jail? i honestly believe that because of the things i have witnesed and lived through, that i am a MUCH stronger person now. and it made me realize the consequenes of doing the wrong things at an early age.

sure i could go out and kill someone, or start doing drugs and acting stupid, and blame it on the way i was raised, but i dont, why? because i have a brain. i use it. i see all these arguments about the parents this the parents that, where were the parents, etc. and i get so mad. the responsibility for ones actions lies solely with that person, regardless of age. i have known right from wrong since as long as i can remember, the only difference is, as i get older, i know what the consequences are for doing right and wrong. a bad person is going to be bad person, regardless of the way that they are raised. i full believe in spanking your kids ass if they misbehave. its not about whether someone know whats right or wrong, because EVERYONE knows whats right or wrong, and if they dont, then they have some mental problems as stated before, its about the what happens after they make their choice. when some one says now dont do that, is that gonna make me stop? no. or if they ground me, is that gonna make me stop? maybe, depends on situation. if i get spaked, will i do that again? most likely not, but like i said before, a bad person is going to be a bad person regardless of how they were raised. and the people that go out blame their actions on something else are just cop-outs.

i dont wanna ruffle any feathers with this post, but it just makes me so mad to see poeple so quick to blame anyone other than the person who pulled the trigger. i KNOW i havent lived the hardest life, but i also know it wasnt the easiest life as well. but i wouldnt want to change anything about my life, because i am happy with the person that i am today.


-edit-
by the way, maddox is one smart sob, lol.

[El-Scotto]

wal-mart could be to blame since they could have sold the game to the kids that werent supposed to be able to buy it, but sony and rockstar shouldnt be blamed for anything. I still believe the blame should all be on the kids still however.

[Falcon-K]

Originally posted by snyper1982
i cannot believe all the people who are so quick to pass judgement on the parents. it makes me sick. people are responsible for their own actions, plain and simple. i grew up in a VERY bad invironment. my mother and dad used to fight all the time, and i dont mean argue. drugs all the time, how many of you have ever seen your father do crank and sell drugs? or how many of you have woken up in the morning only to find the cops taking your father to jail? i honestly believe that because of the things i have witnesed and lived through, that i am a MUCH stronger person now. and it made me realize the consequenes of doing the wrong things at an early age.


yes that can be the outcome of a hard child hood...but it could also just create another bad member of society...parenting is important in the development of any child...some can live without it but some cant.

[snyper1982]

here is the thing though, i know parenting is very important. but people who grow up loving familys still come out bad too. it all comes down to the person. that person has to be the one to make the choice, no one else. i mean we arent talking about 2 or 3 year olds here, we are talking about 14 and 16 year olds. they KNOW right from wrong. they chose to do the wrong thing, it is their fault, no one elses.