View Full Version : Modding a Zalman cnps7000-Au
hi guys. i'm thinking of modding my zalman cnps7000-Au heatsink with a vantec tornado 92 mm fan! these things move 119 cfm of air! that, along with the zalman heatsink should drop my cpu temps to sub-zero (lol i wish). has this been done before? does anyone know how i would go about it? i know somone modded their zalman cnps7000 with a thermaltake fan before, i'm wondering if he could step up and help me. any suggestions would be appreciated.
dalilman52
11-18-03, 05:16 PM
got ne links to show what it looks like? if u show what it does look like, u could just somehow cut the tornado out of its casing, and somehow glue or any other way to attach it to the hs..just a guess tho
and btw, do u mean the CNPS7000-AlCu? thats the only one that sort of fits what u are talking about...
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bchur83
11-18-03, 05:23 PM
I did something similar with a TT SFII
Link (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243427)
let me know if you have any Q's
dalilman52
11-18-03, 05:23 PM
hmmm i just went to zalman's website and it looks like that the the fan is screwed into the hs, so u should prolly try taking ur hs apart and seeing where it gets screwed in and just go from there...
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bchur83
11-18-03, 05:24 PM
I had to cut the case around the fan off, but the tornados use that to get their high CFM's
what a great project! I've been waiting for some results from such a mod for a long time!
definitely take some pictures of it if you can.
my HS: my heatsink (http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=35-118-109-01.JPG/35-118-109-04.JPG/35-118-109-03.JPG/35-118-109-02.JPG)
the fan i am thinking of putting on it: Tornado (http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-999-613-03.JPG/11-999-613-04.JPG)
the deal is i dont know how to do this. i may need some help bchur83. some pictures might help me. i just dont know if the tornado will fit on the zalman because its wider at 38 mm versus the standard of 25 mm. i was also thinking of a panaflo or enermax to mod into the zalman cnps7000-Cu ( i mean Cu not Au dalilman52 :) ). i have a digital camera so once its done, i will have no probelm taking pics. however i still dont even have my pc built so it may be a while since i am waiting for the 2.8CGHz processor with M0 stepping. but once its done, i will post the pics. i'm going to ad bchur83 to my buddy list so i he can help me since he prolly knows more how to do this than anyone else.
shiyan: hope i can get some good results so you will be happy. sounds like your really interested in this project! thanks for the support :D
bchur83
11-18-03, 08:23 PM
Yeah I can help you out, the only thing I'm concerned about is that I think the tornado uses the casing to make the high CFM, so you might not be able to cut it away like I did with the SF II. But I will try to help out as much as possible
The Tornado does not use its casing to create high CFM; the vanes in the Tornado housing straighten the otherwise spiral-shaped airflow so that the air goes where the fan is pointing and not elsewhere. The CNPS7000 uses an enclosed fan, and is one of the few instances where blade tip turbulence and spiral flow increase cooling performance.
Now, the Tornado is 38mm deep, but from looking at my 80mm Tornado it appears that the blades are only about 25mm deep, so if you cut away the housing it should be about the right size. I don't know if this will apply to the 92mm Tornado.
Before you go ahead and hack everything up, consider this:
The CNPS7000 is designed for low-flow, low-CFM cooling. If you want to use a powerful fan, why not just go with the SLK900, SP94, MCX462, etc. - With all of these heatsink you can just strap on that 92mm Tornado without all the hassle, and without destroying it, and get pretty much the same performance.
bchur83
11-18-03, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by JKeefe
The Tornado does not use its casing to create high CFM; the vanes in the Tornado housing straighten the otherwise spiral-shaped airflow so that the air goes where the fan is pointing and not elsewhere. The CNPS7000 uses an enclosed fan, and is one of the few instances where blade tip turbulence and spiral flow increase cooling performance.
Yeah you are probably right, I wasn't sure, so you cleared things up
i could do that, but ive heard the zalman cnps7000 cools great with its own fan, i thought it would be awsome with a modded fan, like the tornado. but a thermalright might do the same thing...which thermalright would be best to use? i'm not sure what i should do....?
i have a 7000cu and would be really interested myself in this fan mod please keep us all posted
JKeefe: you have a zalman cnps7000-Cu correct? and a vantec tornado, corect? would you be able to measure both the fan blade of the zalman, and the fan blade of the tornado, and see of they are about the same size. if so, once i get my stuff ordered, i'm gona get my hands dirty and work on this mod. i might also try other high CFM fans too, possibly some from panaflo or enermax, but for now, if you could measure the fan blades and let me know if they are similar, that would be a big help.
Originally posted by JKeefe
The Tornado does not use its casing to create high CFM; the vanes in the Tornado housing straighten the otherwise spiral-shaped airflow so that the air goes where the fan is pointing and not elsewhere. The CNPS7000 uses an enclosed fan, and is one of the few instances where blade tip turbulence and spiral flow increase cooling performance.
does this mean that the vantec tornado has good tip turbulence and that it would really make the zalman even more effective than it already is?
dalilman52
11-19-03, 09:49 AM
most likely
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Originally posted by gustav
i could do that, but ive heard the zalman cnps7000 cools great with its own fan, i thought it would be awsome with a modded fan, like the tornado. but a thermalright might do the same thing...which thermalright would be best to use? i'm not sure what i should do....? It does cool great. However, it is designed for a low-flow fan. You will do better and make your life easier by just using a heatsink designed for a high-flow fan. Use the SLK-947 or the SP-94.
JKeefe: you have a zalman cnps7000-Cu correct? and a vantec tornado, corect? would you be able to measure both the fan blade of the zalman, and the fan blade of the tornado, and see of they are about the same size. if so, once i get my stuff ordered, i'm gona get my hands dirty and work on this mod. i might also try other high CFM fans too, possibly some from panaflo or enermax, but for now, if you could measure the fan blades and let me know if they are similar, that would be a big help.I cannot directly measure, because both the case of the Tornado and the fins of the CNPS7000 get in the way, but they look similar in blade depth. Like I said before, I have an 80mm Tornado; a 92mm Tornado may differ.
does this mean that the vantec tornado has good tip turbulence and that it would really make the zalman even more effective than it already is?All fans have tip turbulence, which varies by design, but always increases with RPM. Since the Tornado is very high RPM, I'm sure it has a decent amount of tip turbulence, although I'm sure efforts were made to reduce it since it doesn't help things in normal operation.
Let me stress again: A Zalman CNPS7000 will perform no better with a high flow fan than a SLK900, SLK947, or SP-94, and the latter require no modding. The CNPS7000 is for low noise while retaining good performance. The Thermalright sinks are for maximum performance at the cost of noise. If you're going to create noise anyway, use a heatsink designed for high flow.
dalilman52
11-19-03, 02:41 PM
sooo..the moral of the story is, dont get a zalman cooler if ur planning on modding it to create noise...the whole point of zalman is NO noise
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Ok, I guess you’ve convinced me that a thermalright with a high CFM fan will outperform a zalman with a tornado or other fan modded into it...so out of those heatsinks suggested, what would you recommend most? And with what fan (I have found several fans with high CFM and various dBA measurements. can thermalright's hold 120mm's? I basically want the highest CFM with the lowest noise possible. I’ll probably be buying the sunbeam rheobus easy fan speed controller because I don’t want to spend much (its $14.99 at www.svc.com) and it is recommended by svc). So this is what I need suggestions for:
- Best heatsink from thermalright to take a 2.8CGHz w/ M0 stepping to the limits (on air)
- Best fan with best CFM to noise ratio to put on top of it and can thermalright HS's hold 120mm's?
- Best case fan with best CFM to noise ratio...preferably with blue LED's? (I have a antec plusview amg 1000 case (antec trueblue psu, 2 blue LED fans) the case holds 2 80mm intakes in front, one side 80mm intake in the window, and two 80mm exhaust). I was thinking of cooler master clear fans with blue LED's, but they don’t push much air (around 30 CFM, with 25 dBA, which isn’t bad, but isn’t the best, I’m sure there are other fans out there that have blue LED's and move more air, but I haven’t found them yet.)
- Finally, if there is a better fan controller than the one I’m thinking of, for about the same price, then please suggest it. I would like it to be black in color and blue LED's would be nice, but aren’t necessary
P.S. \/\/()()T!!! I got 2 stars now!!! :D
dalilman52
11-19-03, 05:22 PM
1st question - thermalright sp-94, has HEATPIPES so it works real good w/o needing a tornado
2nd question - no, it can only hold up to 92x92x38 and the best would be the panaflo 92 mm high output....
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Originally posted by JKeefe
Let me stress again: A Zalman CNPS7000 will perform no better with a high flow fan than a SLK900, SLK947, or SP-94, and the latter require no modding. The CNPS7000 is for low noise while retaining good performance. The Thermalright sinks are for maximum performance at the cost of noise. If you're going to create noise anyway, use a heatsink designed for high flow.
although I'd agree with that, and you're probably right about the Zalman being designed for low airflow, I feel that this is still worth investigating, as I haven't yet seen any proof of the Thermalrights outperforming the Zalman using the same fan.
They very well might, but all I'm saying is that unless someone goes and proves it with a test, it's still a test worth doing. after all, SLKs and SP94 still work great with low airflow, despite many people using them with high airflow fans.
For me, the best proof is in the test. I'll give it a try myself if I can get my hands on the right parts.
gustav:
I thought you already bought the Zalman and Tornado, which was why I was quite excited by the prospect of your project.
If you haven't then I'd agree with getting the SP94 instead, as it has been proven to work very well with high airflow fans.
as for a fan for it to take you to the limits of the 2.8's potential, there's no other choice than the 80mm Tornado. It will outperform even the 92mm Tornado.
You are getting a rheostat as well, so I think you can use that to turn the speed of the Tornado down, so that the noise becomes quite tolerable, for very good cooling. You might even not need another fan for everyday use.
If you can't deal with the noise of the Tornado at reduced rpms, then a good fan for low noise levels is the Panaflo LA1 80mm. There are many other possible fans too.
well i was looking in another post, and u said that the sp-94 only outperformed the zalman by 0.04 C/W in the p4 heatsink test, and thats with a fan twice the speed. now imagine the zalman with the same speed fan, it should blow away the sp-94. i'm willing to give it a try.
one question, how does the tornado 80mm outperform the 92mm? the 92 puts out 119 CFM with a lower RPM and is just a slight increase in dBA.
The 80mm Tornado has more static pressure than the 92mm Tornado.
Go with the SP-94; it's at the top of the heatsink rankings: http://www.overclockers.com/articles373/
" sooo..the moral of the story is, dont get a zalman cooler if ur planning on modding it to create noise...the whole point of zalman is NO noise" - EXACTLY. Well, not no noise, but low noise. You can't hear the fan, but it moves enough air to cause airflow noise through the fins.
i just found out, the fan dimentions of the zalman cnps7000 is 92x92x25. the tornado is 92x92x38, but thats with the casing around it, even so, i dont think there is 18mm in just casing arounf the fan, so unless i mounted this higher on the zalman than the stock fan, it wouldnt work. the only way i can be sure is if u measured the tornado fan, but i dont have one....this was only a future prohject. maybe i can find some other fan with high CFM to mod into it....but i'm still thinking that if the zalman did worse by only 0.04 C/W than the SP-94 in the p4 cpu test with a fan half the speed, what will it do with a fan the same speed?...
yes, but think about this: if the zalman is rated at 0.18 C/W in the cpu test with a fan speed of 2400, and the sp-94 is rated at 0.14 in the cpu test with a fan speed of 4800, just think what the zalman will do with a 4800 rpm fan on it. i dont care about noise. but with the same fan speed, zalman cnps vs. thermalright sp-94, i think that, *in theory* the zalman will perform better.
i measured the depth of a standard 80x80x25mm fan, yes the actual fan and not just the casing. the actual fan balde depth is about 1cm (10mm). now on the zalman, it has a 92x92x25 fan, this is without the casing, its just the fasn (as there is no casing like a regular case fan). so i set up a ratio, 1cm:2.5cm and xcm:3.8cm (the size of the vantec tornado casing). now, the only difference between the 92x92x25 zalman fan, and the standard 80x80x25 is the actual fan depth, the standard is 10mm, the zalman 25mm. back to the ratio, the 1 is the depth of the standard fan, the 25, the actual depth of the fan with the casing. in the other ratio, the x represents the actual fan blade depth of the tornado, and the 3.8 represents the depth of the fan with the casing, so if you cross multiply the 1 and the 3.8, you get 3.8, divide that by 2.5 and you get the depth of of the tornado fan right? 1.52 cm or about 15 mm, 10 millimeters off what the zalman is supposed to be. this sounds a little off and i dont know if i set up the equation wrong or if that equation will even work. i think i'm still going to be adventurous and try this mod. i just dont want it to fail and lose money in the trial.
once i actually have the parts, i will first boot up the system with the stock HS and then take idle and load temps, then i will slap on the stock zalman and take idle and load temps, then i will need help from the guy who modded his zalman with the TT fan, i will need to know how to cut the fan out of its casing and what tool to use. and how to secure it to the HS. if it works, i will take idle and load temps, and then you will all see th results, this may take a month or so because i'm waiting to order my parts when a reseller (like newegg or zipzoomfly) comes out with a 2.8CGHz w/ M0 stepping. if you could tell me what you did to complete your mod, bchur83, that would be helpful, just include the steps you did and what tools to do them, how you secured the TT fan to the zalman HS etc.
I’ve decided I will try this at a later time just for kicks. Maybe sometime in the new year, when I’m bored I can buy a zalman 7000 series and mod it up. I think for now I want to be sure I will have the best air cooling system.
It's usually about 70 degrees in my house, so i'm wondering which will be better, the thermalright with a powerful fan and a fan controller to keep the noise down, or the zalman on normal mode? If I choose thermalright, I will need a good thermalright heatsink and a good fan. I am thinking of the sp-94 with the heatpipe (would this be best for overclocking a 2.8 to 3.5 or more?), and a tornado fan (with controller), or possibly a panaflo fan (without controller). thermalright's don’t hold 120mm fans right, only up to 92mm? how do thermalright's hook onto the p4? they don’t use the standard \__/ shaped clips, but spring loaded screws? what if u don’t have holes in ur mobo to hook the screws into? i just dont know which will give me better performance, its already cool in my house as i said before, the question is, which heatsink works better with a lower rpm fan?
I haven't seen anyone do a direct head on comparison between the CNPS7000 and the SP94, so you're in the perfect position to do that if you decide to get the SP94 now, and the CNPS7000 later on.
You don't have to worry about not being able to mount the SP94. All P4 motherboards which can mount the stock Intel heatsink must have those 4 holes for the cage, so there are definitely holes for the SP94 to use.
I'd say start with the 80mm Tornado with fan controller first, as that will give you the best performance when you let is spin at its max speed, and it should still cool very well when you turn the fan speed down. Have a look in the review for how the cooling performance changed with different rpms: http://www.overclockers.com/articles798/
Here's the review of the CNPS7000Cu: http://www.overclockers.com/articles735/
For both to achieve 0.18C/W, the CNPS7000's fan is turning at 2200rpm, and the SP94's is turning at 2000rpm. Remember that the 2 fans are different though, the thicker Delta fan on the SP94 probably makes more noise at this speed than the CNPS7000's fan, but we don't know for sure.
i think i'm going to go with the SP-94 as it is know for giving the top performance in air cooling. i think, like i said before, i will get the zalman and try out the mod, just to see which heatsink does better with the same rpm fan. i have one question though: why do you recommend using the tornado 80mm fan on the SP-94 and not the 92mm tornado?
kikkler
11-20-03, 03:26 PM
hearing some more about the casing removal and fan-t- hs securing process would be great, I'm seriously thinking about doing this mod
stamasd
11-20-03, 03:45 PM
I imagine cable ties should do a nice job at keeping the transplanted fan down. When I'll get around to modding my Zalman I'll post pictures.
The reason I recommend the 80mm Tornado for the SP94 rather than the 92mm is because the 80mm creates more air pressure, and outperforms the 92mm. If you are going to go for a loud fan, you might as well go all the way.
This is the performance comparison, with the SLK900, which is very close in construction and performance to the SP94:
http://www.student.kuleuven.ac.be/~m0324684/SLK900.gif
lol everyone is taking my idea...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, oh well i'll be doing it sometime in the new year anyway...
so your saying a toned down tornado (by using a fan controler) would do better than a panaflo or even the 92mm tornado because it creates more air pressure which cools better? i thought more CFM was better, maybe i was wrong...
stamasd
11-20-03, 04:46 PM
IMHO, higher air pressure does nothing if it doesn't translate into higher CFM in the working configuration. Remember peeps, it's all about the amount of air that you move through the fins.
ahhhh i dont know who to listen to, one tells me a higher pressure fan will do better, the other says this is true only if it translates to higher CFM. i'd go with stamasd based on the fact that i always thought more CFM - better cooling, although i'd like to believe shiyan has a point too, because it seems s/he knows a lot about cooling/fans/heatsinks etc.
stamasd
11-20-03, 05:56 PM
Let's get this straight. The rated CFM in the datasheet is (presumably) without any load, i.e. no resistence to air flow past the fan. In the real world, the "working" CFM will be lower because of the resistence introduced by the heatsink. So take the CFM rating with a grain of salt. The pressure differential OTOH is probably measured against an obstacle, and may approximate better the fan performance when mounted on a heatsink. Think of the difference between a light car which can reach high speeds when empty, but whose max speed decreases dramatically when you load it; and a truck which cannot go very fast even when empty, but the max speed stays the same when loaded.
In other words, if what I said doesn't make sense to you, know that I would also take the higher pressure over higher catalog CFM fan.
look at the table.
the best C/W you'll get with the 92mm fan is 0.27 C/W, with the 92mm fan running at 3900rpm.
the best C/W you'll get with the 80mm fan is 0.22 C/W, with the 80mm fan running at 5500rpm.
That's why I said go for the 80mm for the maximum performance. It will however, bring with it, maximum noise.
That does not mean that it iwill be better than the Panaflo or whatever other fan, when it is turned down. From the table you can see that they still cool very well, but I don't know how that compares to a different fan.
I have no idea whether it is better at low noise levels than other fans.
schismspeak
11-20-03, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by stamasd
IMHO, higher air pressure does nothing if it doesn't translate into higher CFM in the working configuration. Remember peeps, it's all about the amount of air that you move through the fins.
Yes it is about the amount that is moved through, and a higher static pressure means more air can be pushed through the fins with less backflow.
That is why as shown in the pic, the 80mm performs better at the same speed because it has more static pressure, and the 92mm loses even though it is pushing more air, but less of it is actually getting pushed through the fins because it lacks the static pressure to do so.
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