Gainward nVidia FX 5700 Ultra "Golden Sample" or BBA Radeon 9600 XT?

[TomaHawk47x]

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=14-128-171

or

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=14-102-331

The "Golden Sample" appears to be able to overclock very well, considering its cooling. with this in mind, would it be better than the 9600 xt?

[CamH]

Even with better cooling and better overclocking... It's still an FX.

The FX series does not have the IQ or speed in Dx9 games that Radeons have.

Here is a good review: http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTQw

[TomaHawk47x]

i dont know what review to trust more, anandtech said the 5700u was better. are there any HL2 benchmarks w/the 5700u?

[CamH]

Well, the 9600 Pro beats the 5900 Ultra in full Dx9 mode, and the 5700 is still slower than the 5900. So, the 9600 Pro will be a faster card in HL2.

[TomaHawk47x]

Originally posted by CamH
Well, the 9600 Pro beats the 5900 Ultra in full Dx9 mode, and the 5700 is still slower than the 5900. So, the 9600 Pro will be a faster card in HL2.

isnt that only with the older drivers?

[CamH]

Yes, with older drivers. But, you have to remember that nVidia killed the IQ in the newer drivers to get the speed up. Whereas ATi had good performance and good IQ to begin with, no driver hacks needed.

[TomaHawk47x]

can the 9600xt handle all games at 1280x1024? thats the native resolution of the lcd ill be getting. and about the free HL2 coupon that comes with it, is it the FULL version? i do not want a crappy wal-mart, single-player only version, or one that i have to download from steam. i want the FULL game with it...or else id have to buy it anyway.

[CamH]

I suppose it would run every game at 1280x1024. My 9500 can do that fine, and the 9600XT is supposed to be on par with the 9500.

The copy of HL2 is not cut down at all. It's a full game. MP and SP.

[UltimateDouche]

the fx series is almost on par with the ati cards in dx9 shader. It uses that software code built into the drivers that changes the games code to make it work better. I forgot what its called. Dammit.... But whatever it has the same image quality and is a few fps shy of being on par with the ati in performance.

[TomaHawk47x]

Originally posted by UltimateDouche
the fx series is almost on par with the ati cards in dx9 shader. It uses that software code built into the drivers that changes the games code to make it work better. I forgot what its called. Dammit.... But whatever it has the same image quality and is a few fps shy of being on par with the ati in performance.

the main thing im wondering about is considering the golden sample 5700u overclocking potential, will it surpass that 9600 xt?

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by UltimateDouche
the fx series is almost on par with the ati cards in dx9 shader. It uses that software code built into the drivers that changes the games code to make it work better. I forgot what its called. Dammit.... But whatever it has the same image quality and is a few fps shy of being on par with the ati in performance.

not even close to being acurate with anything you just said.

first your talking about a compiler, even ATI has a compiler as of cat3.6 drivers.....big deal.
next, you know damb well with all the IQ tests that I've posted, as well as others.....the IQ has gone way down since 45.xx on the FX cards in order to gain performance.

now, do you want to realy know how bad the FX cards do with PS2.0 and VS2.0....try shadermark.

UltimateDouche, get educated.....stop spreading lies.
the only thing in the new drivers that adds performance is IQ cheats.....and it's the consumer that gets cheated.

mica

[Sir Barton]

Originally posted by CamH
Yes, with older drivers. But, you have to remember that nVidia killed the IQ in the newer drivers to get the speed up. Whereas ATi had good performance and good IQ to begin with, no driver hacks needed.

i dont think theyve killed the IQ with newer drivers. take for example GTA: VC, when i was running 52.16 drivers the cars werent shiny at all, now with the 53.03s theyre shiny, the headlights actually look like theyre glowing, etc. the drivers really are getting better, take it from experience :)

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by Sir Barton


i dont think theyve killed the IQ with newer drivers. take for example GTA: VC, when i was running 52.16 drivers the cars werent shiny at all, now with the 53.03s theyre shiny, the headlights actually look like theyre glowing, etc. the drivers really are getting better, take it from experience :)

that is only one game.....yet I'm glad that the new driver helped.
there are lots of other highly benchmarked games that will never get fixed because it would crush the performance.

anyway, I'm glad it help again.

mica

[Sir Barton]

youre right about the IQ on the older drivers for sure mica. ive only tried 3 drivers so far with this card, 52.16, 52.70, and 53.03...and i think the 53.03s perform the best. my 3Dmark03 build 340 went up 621pts and my 01 score went up 250pts from the switch to the good stuff.

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by Sir Barton
youre right about the IQ on the older drivers for sure mica. ive only tried 3 drivers so far with this card, 52.16, 52.70, and 53.03...and i think the 53.03s perform the best. my 3Dmark03 build 340 went up 621pts and my 01 score went up 250pts from the switch to the good stuff.

just wait for the new build for 3dmark03 and watch your scores drop again with the 53.03's.....sorry man, that's the brakes with nVidia trying to cheat with every new set of drivers.

the good news is that with games that is not benchmarked alot, nVidia is not realy fooling around with IQ that much.

btw, just for clarity.....I'm(as well as others are) not realy talking about bugs when speaking about IQ.

mica

[UltimateDouche]

With the new ForceWare driver, NVIDIA has done much to improve performance especially in the newer DirectX 9 games - and without having to sacrifice image quality. Tom's Hardware

No, Im not a nvidia fanboy and Im just trying to prove a point.

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by UltimateDouche
Tom's Hardware

No, Im not a nvidia fanboy and Im just trying to prove a point.

yet all the driver cheats are still there....or did you just wake up and still don't know about futuremark.

plus I have a friend that has a 5900u, and we test IQ as well as performace with many games.

halo and MS flightsim'04 are two games that I can remember right off the top of my head that still have cheats as well.
then there is also aquamark too.
also, still no triliner filtering with ALL DX games.
this is with the 52.70's (I think...so tired)

mica

[UltimateDouche]

dood i wasnt even talking about 03 it was about all the games benchmarked and the image quality not 3dmark03. I dont care if im wrong i wouldnt buy a nvidia card anyways because of there horrible record of performance recently and trying to make it up with shader optimizers and cheats. I think its pathetic they have to use software code to get close to ati's IQ and Performance. Just my 2cents

[Overclocker550]

I can show you another thread where I got flamed when I said a 9700 pro eats the fx5900 :(

[CamH]

Originally posted by Overclocker550
I can show you another thread where I got flamed when I said a 9700 pro eats the fx5900 :(

I think this is one of those times when you don't deserve a good flaming, in fact. :D

The Radeon 9700 Pro is certainly not quite as fast as a FX5900. But, there's the definite problem with the FX's IQ. That, to me, puts the 9700 ahead of the FX5900.

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-178-1.htm

Oh well.

[Shade00]

Lol, I think because we poked fun at OC550 a long time ago he's going to try to use the word 'eat' in every post.

Anyway, I think both cards are great cards. From reviews I've seen and things I've heard, the cards are pretty evenly matched. Personally, I would choose the 9600XT because I've owned nothing but ATI cards for the past 6 months and because you get HL2 free. It's just a better deal overall. I don't think either card would stomp the other.

micamica1217, have you seen the 53.03s in action? You keep passing judgment on beta drivers that others have said actually increase both IQ and performance.

[TomaHawk47x]

im still undecided. the reviews seem to be too close to call. im ordering my parts today, unfortunately the BBA 9600xt is out of stock. so guess its either the Gainward "Golden Sample" 5700u for $208 or the Asus Radeon 9600xt for $220. the golden sample is guaranteed to run at 500/1000, and im pretty sure it can still go higher.

EDIT: It also appears that the new Forceware drivers are improving performance as well. I havent ordered any parts for my rig yet (hopefully will by the end of the day), and as a result, i am completely unbiased. i feel if i go with the 5700u golden sample, i will be able to OC it very well, but i doubt i could OC the 9600xt well, especially its memory. assuming i run both cards at their stable max, which would perform better and where? the 9600xt has superior architecture for dx9 affects, but will either of those cards still have a place in my PC by the time they become a major part of today's games? the problem im having is that difference between these two cards isnt night and day. i want u guys to help me decide the pros and cons of each decision.

[MooMasster716]

Go for the 9600xt, I mean you can also get a pretty good overclock on those suckers to you know. Also in dx8 performance there pretty close to each other but in dx9 the ati will take lead.

[Overclocker550]

id just grab a 9700 pro or even a fx5900 if need be

[Captain Hilts]

Originally posted by TomaHawk47x
i dont know what review to trust more, anandtech said the 5700u was better. are there any HL2 benchmarks w/the 5700u?

I've pretty much stopped readin Anand's reviews now because of stuff like this. I don't know how he comes to such a strong conclusion about the 5700 Ultra (saying that it's the card to get in that price range) when his own benchmarks are pretty divided between it and the 9600XT. In fact, the 9600XT does better overall in his benchmarks as there are a few games where it just trounces the 5700 Ultra (like Sim City 4 and Tron, especially when the IQ is on) but for the 5700 Ultra benchmark wins their usually by a much smaller margin.

Throw in the fact that the 9600XT is quite a bit cheaper and you get the HL2 coupon and I think it becomes a no-brainer in favour of the 9600XT.

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by Shade00

micamica1217, have you seen the 53.03s in action? You keep passing judgment on beta drivers that others have said actually increase both IQ and performance.

well, normaly, my friend and I only go "all out" with testing non beta drivers.
yet my friend did try the 53.03 drivers, and all the non-bug, IQ reducing/performance inhancers are still there.
infact, my friend thinks that HALO is not running with 12bit instead of 16bit.

I won't drive myself nuts untill the new official drivers come out.
till then, it seems that all the cheats are back again for 3dmark03 as well.

mica

[Sir Barton]

Originally posted by micamica1217


well, normaly, my friend and I only go "all out" with testing non beta drivers.
yet my friend did try the 53.03 drivers, and all the non-bug, IQ reducing/performance inhancers are still there.
infact, my friend thinks that HALO is not running with 12bit instead of 16bit.

I won't drive myself nuts untill the new official drivers come out.
till then, it seems that all the cheats are back again for 3dmark03 as well.

mica

the dude in the lane next to you is spraying a 150 shot nitrous and you dont even know it. is he cheating? same difference....run what ya brung. heads up.

[TomaHawk47x]

Originally posted by Sir Barton


the dude in the lane next to you is spraying a 150 shot and you dont even know it. is he cheating? same difference....run what ya brung. heads up.

uhhh....

anyway, the mobo and case i want from newegg are out of stock so i have a few more days to decide.

[Sir Barton]

i was in the same perdicament tomahawk....i just got tired of waiting and got my 5700U. and i love it. if you dont like it RMA it and get a 9600XT.

[NewbiePerson]

I traded my 9500 pro for a fx5800 everyone says what was I smoking.
I couldn't be happier with my 5800.
Using the 53.03 I get 5300 in 3dmark 03 3600 with 9500 pro
about 15k in 3dmark 01 1300 with 9500 pro
At 1280*1024 with af at 8 and al at 8 I get an average of 80fps in max payne 2
In call of duty at 1024*768 at 6 al and 8 af I get 30fps. (maybe a patch will be released for this soon).
This was all at defualt video speeds 400/800.
I think image quality improved over the 52.12.

[snyper1982]

Originally posted by Sir Barton


the dude in the lane next to you is spraying a 150 shot nitrous and you dont even know it. is he cheating? same difference....run what ya brung. heads up.

that is a horrible analogy. its more like the dude in the next lane has a lot shorter track, because thats basicaly what it comes down to. nv cards are not doing as much work, no trilinear, fp12, missing effects etc.

[Sir Barton]

same difference.

[CamH]

Originally posted by Sir Barton
same difference.


Uhh... :eh?: No. :)

[Falcon-K]

Originally posted by Sir Barton
same difference.

no.... :rolleyes: , and i would prefer to hvae the 9600 xt over the 5700u...about equal performance(depends on if you care about iq, cheats ect), the xt comes with hl2 and is a little cheaper on average.

[Pollux]

Originally posted by Falcon-K


no.... :rolleyes: , and i would prefer to hvae the 9600 xt over the 5700u...about equal performance(depends on if you care about iq, cheats ect), the xt comes with hl2 and is a little cheaper on average.

Are u taking overclocking into account?

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by Sir Barton
same difference.

not even close....

let me see if I get you straight:

it's OK with you if nVidia gives the public a driver that delivers faster frame rates, even if it means that the public doesn't recive what the developers of a perticular software intend for you to see.
that if nVidia desides, they should replace shaders, textures, or reduce lighting, removing shadows, lowering IQ, all in the name of giving nVidia an easyer way to sell more cards....even though the public can be riped off, if they buy a game that falls under the above listings.

that when you set the AF to say 8X in the control panel, if nVidia desides to only give you IQ as comparible to 2X....that's OK with you too???

that when one game runs so poorly even in 16bit mode, nVidia now gives you a new driver, that posably only does 12bit....
yet you now have about a 40% increase in frame rate...that's cool too? (btw, yes you can easly tell the differance between the two modes)

I will say that both ATI and nVidia is doing a fine job in fixing unintentional bugs.
I also hope that people here understand that I'm NOT talking about bugs.

what I am talking about is that I use some benchmarks as a way to make a perchace, or to recamend a card to others.
when a benchmark is fudged in some way, just to help make a sale, or to help people bragg about some score.....
I fail to see how this is cool to you or others.

I remember playing Q3A with only 16bit textures and 16bit color....
this was my choice, and I got some extra FPS from turning down the eye candy.
but now nVidia seems to be taking away peoples choice as to how we see our games.
thank god it's not all games.
just the ones that are most benchmarked.
I'm not in anyway suprised by nVidia for doing some crazy things to help sell thier cards.

what I am suprised about is how some people here are defending nVidia.
unless you work for nVidia in some way.....it is YOU that they are taking advantage of.

with all the PR lies and hype, the underhanded way that nVidia is invalidating benchmarks and game IQ.....some people here are looking more like a PR guy's wet dream.
closing your eye's to this problem will not solve this matter.
it is only when people like you, stand up to the big bad wolf will we see this problem disapear.

mica

[Falcon-K]

Originally posted by Pollux


Are u taking overclocking into account?

nope

Originally posted by Mica


not even close....

let me see if I get you straight:

it's OK with you if nVidia gives the public a driver that delivers faster frame rates, even if it means that the public doesn't recive what the developers of a perticular software intend for you to see.
that if nVidia desides, they should replace shaders, textures, or reduce lighting, removing shadows, lowering IQ, all in the name of giving nVidia an easyer way to sell more cards....even though the public can be riped off, if they buy a game that falls under the above listings.

that when you set the AF to say 8X in the control panel, if nVidia desides to only give you IQ as comparible to 2X....that's OK with you too???

that when one game runs so poorly even in 16bit mode, nVidia now gives you a new driver, that posably only does 12bit....
yet you now have about a 40% increase in frame rate...that's cool too? (btw, yes you can easly tell the differance between the two modes)

I will say that both ATI and nVidia is doing a fine job in fixing unintentional bugs.
I also hope that people here understand that I'm NOT talking about bugs.

what I am talking about is that I use some benchmarks as a way to make a perchace, or to recamend a card to others.
when a benchmark is fudged in some way, just to help make a sale, or to help people bragg about some score.....
I fail to see how this is cool to you or others.

I remember playing Q3A with only 16bit textures and 16bit color....
this was my choice, and I got some extra FPS from turning down the eye candy.
but now nVidia seems to be taking away peoples choice as to how we see our games.
thank god it's not all games.
just the ones that are most benchmarked.
I'm not in anyway suprised by nVidia for doing some crazy things to help sell thier cards.

what I am suprised about is how some people here are defending nVidia.
unless you work for nVidia in some way.....it is YOU that they are taking advantage of.

with all the PR lies and hype, the underhanded way that nVidia is invalidating benchmarks and game IQ.....some people here are looking more like a PR guy's wet dream.
closing your eye's to this problem will not solve this matter.
it is only when people like you, stand up to the big bad wolf will we see this problem disapear.

mica


well said

[Overclocker550]

"what I am suprised about is how some people here are defending nVidia.
unless you work for nVidia in some way.....it is YOU that they are taking advantage of."


I know thats sad, yet you wanna know whats even sadder? I was talking to this guy on aol who said hes not going ati even if their card is twice the speed of anything out for half the price. he also says he "grew" up with nvidia. Hes got a ti4400 and is gonna see how the nv40 is. If he cant afford that hes going fx5900u then. god I feel sorry for guys like that

[HardwareJedi]

Originally posted by Pollux


Are u taking overclocking into account?

Why should he? there's no gaurantees and basing a buying descision on what MIGHT be is silly. imho, The NV cards are already running at near max speeds to keep up with the ATI cards, so will not overclock that well anyway. Since NV's poor DX9 performance seems more an achitectural limitation and not bandwidth, any o/c'ing you do get will only give minor performance improvements.


Originally posted by Overclocker550
"what I am suprised about is how some people here are defending nVidia.
unless you work for nVidia in some way.....it is YOU that they are taking advantage of."

I know thats sad, yet you wanna know whats even sadder? I was talking to this guy on aol who said hes not going ati even if their card is twice the speed of anything out for half the price. he also says he "grew" up with nvidia. Hes got a ti4400 and is gonna see how the nv40 is. If he cant afford that hes going fx5900u then. god I feel sorry for guys like that

Ya gotta admire their Loyalty in light of Nvidia's shenanigans over the last year or so.... :rolleyes:

I, on the other hand am weak and misguided. ;) Or maybe I don't like being lied to. I defected to ATI a few months ago after a run of 6 diff. NV products. I started recommending ATI to my Customers instead of Nvidia. Knowing what I know, I couldn't sleep at night, if I was pimping Nvidia products.

(Driver hacks and cheating notwithstanding) Nvidia does pretty good in yesterdays games, But a few of todays, and most of tomorrows games will be even more DX9 Pixel Shader heavy. AS PS2.0 usage increases, Nvidia's (Current Gen) performance will go down, so I have to consider my customers Happiness 6-9 months from now too. They are going to much happier with an ATI card down the road.

[Sir Barton]

Originally posted by micamica1217


not even close....

let me see if I get you straight:

it's OK with you if nVidia gives the public a driver that delivers faster frame rates, even if it means that the public doesn't recive what the developers of a perticular software intend for you to see.
that if nVidia desides, they should replace shaders, textures, or reduce lighting, removing shadows, lowering IQ, all in the name of giving nVidia an easyer way to sell more cards....even though the public can be riped off, if they buy a game that falls under the above listings.

that when you set the AF to say 8X in the control panel, if nVidia desides to only give you IQ as comparible to 2X....that's OK with you too???

that when one game runs so poorly even in 16bit mode, nVidia now gives you a new driver, that posably only does 12bit....
yet you now have about a 40% increase in frame rate...that's cool too? (btw, yes you can easly tell the differance between the two modes)

I will say that both ATI and nVidia is doing a fine job in fixing unintentional bugs.
I also hope that people here understand that I'm NOT talking about bugs.

what I am talking about is that I use some benchmarks as a way to make a perchace, or to recamend a card to others.
when a benchmark is fudged in some way, just to help make a sale, or to help people bragg about some score.....
I fail to see how this is cool to you or others.

I remember playing Q3A with only 16bit textures and 16bit color....
this was my choice, and I got some extra FPS from turning down the eye candy.
but now nVidia seems to be taking away peoples choice as to how we see our games.
thank god it's not all games.
just the ones that are most benchmarked.
I'm not in anyway suprised by nVidia for doing some crazy things to help sell thier cards.

what I am suprised about is how some people here are defending nVidia.
unless you work for nVidia in some way.....it is YOU that they are taking advantage of.

with all the PR lies and hype, the underhanded way that nVidia is invalidating benchmarks and game IQ.....some people here are looking more like a PR guy's wet dream.
closing your eye's to this problem will not solve this matter.
it is only when people like you, stand up to the big bad wolf will we see this problem disapear.

mica

first off, youre a farkin idiot for always talkin about IQ this, cheat that. i love my card dude. fanboyish remarks wont change my opinion. you are all a bunch of broken records...."nvidia cheats" "low IQ" "you get HL2 free" same s--t different pile. personally, i dont sit there and bitch and complain about my graphics, they look good, the games play good, and most importantly, im having fun. 'nuff said. mod why dont you start an ATi fanboy forum, if us nvidia folks wanna get bashed we can post there.

[CamH]

Originally posted by Sir Barton


first off, youre a farkin idiot for always talkin about IQ this, cheat that. i love my card dude. fanboyish remarks wont change my opinion. you are all a bunch of broken records...."nvidia cheats" "low IQ" "you get HL2 free" same s--t different pile. personally, i dont sit there and bitch and complain about my graphics, they look good, the games play good, and most importantly, im having fun. 'nuff said. mod why dont you start an ATi fanboy forum, if us nvidia folks wanna get bashed we can post there.

Fanboyish remarks? That is one.

It's great that you're enjoying yourself. With your card.

But do you feel that it's fair for a company to to make a card that is inferior and charge the same price as an ATi card? Seriously, framerate is not everything. Maybe a few years ago it was, but not today. IQ matters to most everyone.

I'm sure you don't care, but most everyone else does.

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by Sir Barton


first off, youre a farkin idiot for always talkin about IQ this, cheat that. i love my card dude. fanboyish remarks wont change my opinion. you are all a bunch of broken records...."nvidia cheats" "low IQ" "you get HL2 free" same s--t different pile. personally, i dont sit there and bitch and complain about my graphics, they look good, the games play good, and most importantly, im having fun. 'nuff said. mod why dont you start an ATi fanboy forum, if us nvidia folks wanna get bashed we can post there.

the funny thing is that nothing I said is "fanboyish" in any way.
nor am I bashing you.

everything is clearly shown in many web sites, as well as I've also tested the problems to see if they were true.
what I find that is truly fanboyish is how you defend nVidia for ripping off it's costomers.
if anything, I'm trying to help "YOU" not get ripped off.
and what do I get for informing current or potential customers of nVidia FX cards.....I'm called a "farkin idiot".:rolleyes:

mica

[NewbiePerson]

This is a case where the value of these video cards is decided by the consumer not by tales of cheating, 50 extra fps here and there, low IQ, or w/e. So no one here is going to change my mind or any other proud owner of a fx product. I've owned both a 9500pro and now a fx 5800. I can't tell a picture "quality" difference between the two. This is like having two different recipes for rolls. One has some spice on it. A person who can't taste attempts to compare them. Mine has spice it must taste better than the plain. What's the difference if the taster can't tell. Thus benchmarks, quality comparisons can sway a purchase but nothing matters except the consumer's opinion of the product. Don't joke it if you haven't owned it.

[Sir Barton]

Originally posted by NewbiePerson
This is a case where the value of these video cards is decided by the consumer not by tales of cheating, 50 extra fps here and there, low IQ, or w/e. So no one here is going to change my mind or any other proud owner of a fx product. I've owned both a 9500pro and now a fx 5800. I can't tell a picture "quality" difference between the two. This is like having two different recipes for rolls. One has some spice on it. A person who can't taste attempts to compare them. Mine has spice it must taste better than the plain. What's the difference if the taster can't tell. Thus benchmarks, quality comparisons can sway a purchase but nothing matters except the consumer's opinion of the product. Don't joke it if you haven't owned it.

well put Newbie. heres a :beer: for ya.

[snyper1982]

Originally posted by NewbiePerson
This is a case where the value of these video cards is decided by the consumer not by tales of cheating, 50 extra fps here and there, low IQ, or w/e. So no one here is going to change my mind or any other proud owner of a fx product. I've owned both a 9500pro and now a fx 5800. I can't tell a picture "quality" difference between the two. This is like having two different recipes for rolls. One has some spice on it. A person who can't taste attempts to compare them. Mine has spice it must taste better than the plain. What's the difference if the taster can't tell. Thus benchmarks, quality comparisons can sway a purchase but nothing matters except the consumer's opinion of the product. Don't joke it if you haven't owned it.

so what you are basicaly saying is that the consumer should make an uninformed buying decision. thats just plain stupid. when i am going to buy something, i want to know as much as i can from both sides. as i see it, ati gives good framerates and better iq. nv gives good framerates in old games and has lower iq. and sir barton, calling someone a "farkin idiot" for pointing out facts is about as fanboyish as you can get. i dont understand WHY anyone chooses a side in this. both of these companys are looking for the same thing, $$$$. i would never even get into these if it werent for all the biased remarks made in these debates. i have owned nv and ati. and i always buy the most bang for the buck. i dont have a problem with nv hardware performing sub par, but i do have a problem with these "optimizations" they have been implementing lately. i should be able to choose to run trilinear, i should be able to see that image the way it was programed to be seen, not the way someone else thinks it should be seen. that is like buying an amplifier, and it playing a different sound than the cd has on it. it isnt supposed to be like that.

[OC Noob]

Originally posted by Sir Barton


first off, youre a farkin idiot for always talkin about IQ this, cheat that. i love my card dude. fanboyish remarks wont change my opinion. you are all a bunch of broken records...."nvidia cheats" "low IQ" "you get HL2 free" same s--t different pile. personally, i dont sit there and bitch and complain about my graphics, they look good, the games play good, and most importantly, im having fun. 'nuff said. mod why dont you start an ATi fanboy forum, if us nvidia folks wanna get bashed we can post there.

Its a thread comparing the two cards errrrr... wait! Yeah, what the heck, next the farkin idiot will be talking about the cards performance and other irrelivant things like price!

Anyway, the so called Forceware is just another gimmick. All the coding in the world won't make inadequate hardware run PS2.0 correctly. Maybe they can use a DX8/9 hybrid to some effect, but why in the world would someone buy a piece of hardware that strugles to run things and needs all sorts of special programing when they can get a competing piece of hardware that does the job correctly?

Keep in mind DX9 is in its infancy and as games rely more heavily on DX9 the problems will only get worse. Its like the dude in a 911 twin turbo racing the guy in a Civic w/ NOS. Right off the bat riceboy may blow his NOS wad and he may keep up, but the NOS will only take him so far. The "Forceware" patch work drivers may be able to keep up some what now, but in the long run the poor performance will be exposed.


ps IQ is the nice ride the Porsche driver enjoys, while the dude in the Civic's ride is okay up until the car blows and he has to get a ride home in his moms mini van (DX8).


I can have fun with bad analogies too:D

[NewbiePerson]

eerr i said benchmarks and reviews can sway a consumer in either direction, but the value of a card in this case can only be decided by the consumer.
A lot of people and reviews said the 9500pro was great I bought it I thought it was so-so over my gf3ti200. I thought my gf3ti200 was a worthless buy of my radeon le at the time. So you pretty much have to decide for yourself.
Essentially the conclusion is as follows
Ati if you wana play games and watch dvd's.
Nvidia if you want alota software, dual monitor, and a vivo (not joking the all in wonder but u can get a vivo 5600 or something similar for less than $140 or so with a lotta software)
Those are the main differences. Both can do anything the other can just not as effectively.
Also i don't really care for ati's recording style, no one answered my question of a different vcr file player. I know u can convert it to mpeg2 but all i get is sound and a green screen :(

[q149]

Last night I ordered the Gainward Nvidia GeForce FX 5900 128MB Golden Sample (256bit,2.2ns) from Newegg.

I read some reviews for it and it is around the same performance of a 9800 Pro. It's basically a 128mb 5900 Ultra clocked at 400/850 instead of 450/800.(actually it has a setting for 440/900 in the software that comes with it)

Some how the price is around only a little more than 9600 XT and 5700 Ultra.. 229$.. The same price as Gainwards cheap 5900 version at newegg. I looked a couple other places and the cheapest i found was 290.. most places it was over 300.

[Pollux]

I just ordered a 9600xt, cant wait.

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by q149
Last night I ordered the Gainward Nvidia GeForce FX 5900 128MB Golden Sample (256bit,2.2ns) from Newegg.

I read some reviews for it and it is around the same performance of a 9800 Pro. It's basically a 128mb 5900 Ultra clocked at 400/850 instead of 450/800.(actually it has a setting for 440/900 in the software that comes with it)

Some how the price is around only a little more than 9600 XT and 5700 Ultra.. 229$.. The same price as Gainwards cheap 5900 version at newegg. I looked a couple other places and the cheapest i found was 290.. most places it was over 300.

Good buy, same memory as the 5900 Ultra and should be easy to get the cpu up to ultra speeds if it is the GS.
Let us know how you get on.

MrIcee just got top score on 3dmark 9600 by the way ;)

Regards

Andy

[pkrew]

great price on the card, but I've haven't really seen much evidence that its as fast as a 9800pro unless you're running older games or using forceware. but, if Microsoft comes through which they probably will you got a nice deal.

[q149]

Ya i noticed, at least i only got beat by A64 + XT and i'm still on top of aquamark by a couple k. Too bad my 2k3 got outdated, it is 1 of all dates

Where i got that it is around the performance of a 9800 Pro was reviews i read for that specific card(gainward 1200/XP golden sample i think it's called) There is some major differences between different 5900nu cards so the performance can vary alot with them. There is 4 or 5 reviews on that card i found.

[Bailey]

Okay, nothing like a newbie's 1st post being on a touchy subject :D

First I'd say - folks it just a vid card, relax & buy why you like/want.

Second, I've been around long enough to know that BOTH companies aren't angels. I've been burned by ATI more times than I can count. I remember having problems w/ an AIW & ATI's tech support basically said "tough sh*t, too bad for you" - nice. They have come a long way, but I'm still a bit leery.

For 9600xx or 5700 I would go with a a 9600 BUT for a bit more cash you can get a 5900 (189 onsale @ NewEgg).

I agree with NewbiePerson. I've used both brands side by side & I can't tell the IQ difference, guess I'm just blind.

My rank by price is -

$250 + = 9800/9800P
$225 - $250 = 9700P
$185 - $225 = 5900
< $185 = 9600P/XT ($165 for the Sapphire 9600XT is great!)

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by Bailey
Okay, nothing like a newbie's 1st post being on a touchy subject :D

First I'd say - folks it just a vid card, relax & buy why you like/want.

Second, I've been around long enough to know that BOTH companies aren't angels. I've been burned by ATI more times than I can count. I remember having problems w/ an AIW & ATI's tech support basically said "tough sh*t, too bad for you" - nice. They have come a long way, but I'm still a bit leery.

For 9600xx or 5700 I would go with a a 9600 BUT for a bit more cash you can get a 5900 (189 onsale @ NewEgg).

I agree with NewbiePerson. I've used both brands side by side & I can't tell the IQ difference, guess I'm just blind.

My rank by price is -

$250 + = 9800/9800P
$225 - $250 = 9700P
$185 - $225 = 5900
< $185 = 9600P/XT ($165 for the Sapphire 9600XT is great!)

you could get a 9800np for $199.00 at CC B&M

mica

[snyper1982]

it was for 249, not 199. i dont know when this 199 stuff started poping up.

[micamica1217]

Originally posted by snyper1982
it was for 249, not 199. i dont know when this 199 stuff started poping up.

they still have them by me for $199.00, but you must buy at the store..not online.

mica

[Bailey]

Yep, but I was quoting "non-sale" prices in my picks.

Plus I HATE to pay sales tax :D

[pkrew]

I hate sales tax, myself but for around $210 I'll take a 9800np, besides I may get lucky again and get the 2.8ns samsung and have a 9800pro for 210

[NewbiePerson]

and I prefer buying off the internet w/ free shipping and no sales tax

[pkrew]

Originally posted by NewbiePerson
and I prefer buying off the internet w/ free shipping and no sales tax

I'm not sure of the purpose of that, but i just buy whatever is the cheapest and I think the best deal on a 9800np is at CC right now. But if you find one on the internet for less than $210 I'm sure we'll all be interested.

[NewbiePerson]

i saw a refurb all in woder 9700 pro at newegg for $190
probably gone now though.