Has anyone...

ever monitored their water temp?

not a computer tech but I am an auto tech, seems to me that a heater core is overkill? seems to me that you can use a much smaller cooler

how about a thermostat? and a thermostatically switched fan? computers use 12vDC like cars I can provide details on how to wire one

and Lastly - why doesn't anyone use antifreeze? I see that you are all smart enought to use distilled water but antifreeze/COOLANT is much more efficient in thermal transfer than just plain water

So what ratio of distilled water to antifreeze would you suggest? Im using 10% antifreeze 90% distilled water currently.

RogueStar said:

and Lastly - why doesn't anyone use antifreeze? I see that you are all smart enought to use distilled water but antifreeze/COOLANT is much more efficient in thermal transfer than just plain water

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Huh? instead of "much more" give me numbers...

mameXP,

RogueStar said:

ever monitored their water temp?

not a computer tech but I am an auto tech, seems to me that a heater core is overkill? seems to me that you can use a much smaller cooler

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here:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles481/

and Lastly - why doesn't anyone use antifreeze? I see that you are all smart enought to use distilled water but antifreeze/COOLANT is much more efficient in thermal transfer than just plain water

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What magical COOLANT are you talking about?
From all the data I have seen antifreeze hurts the performance in conventional watercooling.

On the issue of coolant, does anyone here use water wetter? You know, the stuff that they use in high performance racing engines to reduce the surface tension of water, and to prevent growth, and corrosion? I'm pretty sure that anti-freeze is a hell of a lot worse than water wetter.

i read the link - interesting to say the least but again overkill I don't need facts and figures to tell me common sense - common sense being the longer the water stays in the radiator(flow rates) the cooler it will get - Duh

the "magical" coolant is regular everyday antifreeze/coolant - again common sense prevails - a car without coolant overheats and a car with coolant doesn't with the same cooling system and since a computer cooling system functions in exactly the same fashion as a car's I seriously doubt there is any difference i thinks you may have watched Conspiracy Theory too many times otherwise why would we put antifreeze/coolant in our cars?

as far as a car goes it is recommended 50/50 and up to 60/40 coolant/water mix

From what i understand, antifreeze raises the temp at which water boils and lowers the temp at which it freezes, but i dont think it actually helps make the water abosrb heat any better.

The thing about water in a car, is that it gets hot. Really hot. Hotter than pure water can take. It also gets cold in winter. Really cold. Below freezing cold. Anti-freeze is designed to primarily deal with those two issues. I agree that you need some sort of coolant, but water wetter is a better choice, because you don't need a lot of it to do the same thing. And, water probably has the highest heat capacity, and really good conduction.

Back to the origional question.

Yes, some people measure their water temps, mostly people using large resevoirs. It isnt practical to measure water temps in a closed loop setup.

I dont think many will welcome the idea of a thermostat switch.

Majority would rather a 7v low noise fan to run over a long period than a 12v high noise fan to stop&go intermittently.

To totaly stop a fan on a rad is wasted c/w that could be shed, that is an inefficient setup, many care about every single degree.

Good idea, somebody is thinking.

But IMO I dont think that is a setup that will become adopted.

BTW, why dont you just take a look at his last statement. I dont think talking about coolent is off topic based on this:

and Lastly - why doesn't anyone use antifreeze? I see that you are all smart enought to use distilled water but antifreeze/COOLANT is much more efficient in thermal transfer than just plain water

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Anti freeze/anti boil is just that, it keeps the water from freezing or boiling. Because of the major mixing of metals in a car system, the corrosion protection is also manditory. Water boiling in an auto would rupture hoses and the thin radiators and push out freeze plugs because of the expansion of the steam, and freezing would do the same.

I don't know why anyone would call it coolant because it does a worse job at cooling than plain distilled water. That's why racers use water wetter (or it's equivelent) with distilled water, it's better at cooling than a 50/50 mix that car makers have to use to keep a warranty alive. Racers never go two races without a teardown, and are constantly puting fresh fluids in.

While common sence would tell you (and me too once upon a time) that slower moving water would cool better in the radiator, this is not the case. When the flow is high, the water molecules break down the boundary layer of water molecules that adhere to the radiator's surface, so that more heat bearing molecules can come into direct contact with the matal surface, thus releasing their heat to the radiator's metal. Very slow moving water systems do not cool better than more powerfull ones, period. The same thing happens in the waterblock also, so the flow needs to be high at both ends.

The water systems in cars are quite different than in computers, though some components are used for each. In a production car, you have a tremendous heat source being cooled by a watersystem that's too small, but car designers compensate with a system that's quite happy running at 200F. And to be sure, we'd be happy to use a good capable heatercore that was 4x4" fin area, but noone makes them. We also would not enjoy operating temperatures around 200F either (more like 70F), so our sytems would look like overkill to a car enthusiast.

While both are watercooled, they perform different functions with different materials, and different temperatures sought.

Ya'll have a groovy turkey day!

BTW. If you want to argue about coolant ratios and the purpose of coolant. Start another thread.

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sorry, I tend to answer smart but remarks with more smart but remarks

I am very glad to see though that you saw the original intent of ths and that was just to expand the boundaries - if no one ever tried anything different we'd never learn anything

after thinking about what you said i can see the differences between what a car and computer's cooling system needs are. a car engine runs optimally at 190 degrees - i take it the idea behind the computer is to just get it as cool as possible - would this be correct? because if not a thermostat and thermastatically controlled fan would be a much better setup

and what is c/w? and what is wasted about it?

RogueStar said:

i read the link - interesting to say the least but again overkill I don't need facts and figures to tell me common sense - common sense being the longer the water stays in the radiator(flow rates) the cooler it will get - Duh

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Then a much smaller heat exchanger would not allow the water to stay in it longer, would it not?
The heatercores are also the easiest to get for an end consumer, and they proved to perform effectively.

the "magical" coolant is regular everyday antifreeze/coolant - again common sense prevails - a car without coolant overheats and a car with coolant doesn't with the same cooling system and since a computer cooling system functions in exactly the same fashion as a car's I seriously doubt there is any difference i thinks you may have watched Conspiracy Theory too many times otherwise why would we put antifreeze/coolant in our cars?

as far as a car goes it is recommended 50/50 and up to 60/40 coolant/water mix

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The car's and computer's cooling systems do function in the same fashion but not under same conditions. In computer's temperature range (typically 1-99 degrees celcius) the water has better heat capacity then antifreeze combo. May I pollitely suggest using the search function of the forums if you wish to learn more.

yes but a system with thermostatic controls could use a much smaller radiator, hence the several questions at once they all correspond to one another - do you see the point yet?

search function works just fine this specific approach has not been approached before - i see that you are determined to just be a smartbut...

Huh? instead of "much more" give me numbers...mameXP

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sorry don't have numbers just trying to apply what I know about cars ( over 12 years experience ) to a computer and since they are very similar I was making assumptions

So far I have failed to see the point.
Do you suggest using very powerful fan that turns on periodically, depending on the temperature? Or just the regular fan?

I dont recomend using water-wetter in your setup. It leaves a pink, slimy looking residue all over your nice clear tubes.

Do you suggest using very powerful fan that turns on periodically, depending on the temperature?

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yea, exactly, like a car

the idea was to use a very small radiator with this setup in mind - only reason i can see so far from what i've read is to save space

So basically, a smaller radiator with thermally controlled higher airflow fan?
What point would you suggest to set the thermostat for?

that is where I need help/ideas - i don't know enough about computers to say if one way/setting would be better than another, like I said a car's engine runs optimally at 190 farenheit, a computer???? all i know is cooler is better(?).

since most peoples computers seem to run in the 80 - 90 degree range than that could be a trigger point

another benefit (?) would be that while your computer is idling the fan isn't on, computer is not generating lots of heat the pump and radiator disperse enough heat, than as your cpu load goes up, the fan kicks in as necessary - the fan can also be wired to a two stage thermistor so that it runs at 5v up until a threshold, and then kicks into 12v when it reaches another threshold - many cars are wired in this manner

i guess i just think like this - if the top fuel drag car winner used an edelbrock manifold and everyone in suit bought an edelbrock manifold but still lost than what was gained? now here comes the guy with his brand x manifold and blows their doors off. im hoping my ideas will be a brand x manifold after all in the 60's a top fuel dragster ran around 240 MPH now they run 300+ MPH